Military life as a dentist

[Doc E239]

I have read a few threads from people in dental school asking about being a dentist and military life.... let me put some my spin on it.

It is true that you don’t have to run a practice and you get a salary while training. But, you give up your autonomy and have many out rank you and you are an employee.

If you went (or going) to a dental school where you didn't have an assistant, then you'll be fine too. Don’t get me wrong, every now and then you'll have a fabulous assistant who is squared away and actually knows what an assistant is supposed to do. Those are usually the contract civilian assistants though. It has been my experience that the goal of the military assistant is to promote through the enlisted ranks as fast as they can and never put scrubs on again and sit chair side. So, you find yourself at the mercy of the "chief" enlisted assistant. If you are used to doing everything yourself... then your in luck.

Health benefits are very good for yourself and your family. If you get sick, then your pay doesn't stop and you dont stress over overhead and what not. So that's good.

Remember...you are an officer first and a Dentist second in the military. Even though you are not running a practice, you do have many additional duties like library officer, infection control officer, preventive dentistry officer, and many other additional activities around the base/fort/dentac/etc...It has been said that your performance record cannot be written if all you do is dentistry. so... you still put the time and effort in, just depends on how you want to do it.

I have seen it written here also not to join for the money... this is very true. Do your homework first and see how much it costs in the long run. At first your scholarship pays you well and you are not in a huge debt run. But, if you plan on private practice then you will have missed some precious building years that would pay off big time in the long run.

Some do not feel comfortable coming out of dental school and going into practice and there is nothing wrong with that. It may be a confidence issue or something else. The military is great for those to help build dental skills while not worrying over the "practice". You have to way out want you want out of your dental career.... if you want to be your own boss and run things how you want and work your own schedule then the military is not for you. If you are flexible and don’t mind working for people and you are ok with working with the materials and equipment supplied for you then you will be fine in the military. Its all about personal choice.

Do your homework. Visit a nearby military dental clinic and really question the people there and how they like it. For some the military is a great career and others not so much. Talk to all ranks... especially the Captains (or Lieutenants in the Navy) about quality of life. They are the entry level docs that you will be upon entering. Talk to the mid level Major/Lieutenant Colonels (Navy Lt Commanders and Commanders) and top rank Colonels (Navy: Captain). I will say it is like starting all over.. you are at the bottom working your way up again in a way... your life will revolve around climbing the ranks... for pay/quality of life etc.

The military is like another job... there are some really great people and some really horrible people. You will work for both. It's what you bring to the party so to speak. Attitude goes a long way and of course flexibility.

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[AirborneDentist]

I have read a few threads from people in dental school asking about being a dentist and military life.... let me put some my spin on it.

It is true that you don't have to run a practice and you get a salary while training. But, you give up your autonomy and have many out rank you and you are an employee.

If you went (or going) to a dental school where you didn't have an assistant, then you'll be fine too. Don't get me wrong, every now and then you'll have a fabulous assistant who is squared away and actually knows what an assistant is supposed to do. Those are usually the contract civilian assistants though. It has been my experience that the goal of the military assistant is to promote through the enlisted ranks as fast as they can and never put scrubs on again and sit chair side. So, you find yourself at the mercy of the "chief" enlisted assistant. If you are used to doing everything yourself... then your in luck.

Health benefits are very good for yourself and your family. If you get sick, then your pay doesn't stop and you dont stress over overhead and what not. So that's good.

Remember...you are an officer first and a Dentist second in the military. Even though you are not running a practice, you do have many additional duties like library officer, infection control officer, preventive dentistry officer, and many other additional activities around the base/fort/dentac/etc...It has been said that your performance record cannot be written if all you do is dentistry. so... you still put the time and effort in, just depends on how you want to do it.

I have seen it written here also not to join for the money... this is very true. Do your homework first and see how much it costs in the long run. At first your scholarship pays you well and you are not in a huge debt run. But, if you plan on private practice then you will have missed some precious building years that would pay off big time in the long run.

Some do not feel comfortable coming out of dental school and going into practice and there is nothing wrong with that. It may be a confidence issue or something else. The military is great for those to help build dental skills while not worrying over the "practice". You have to way out want you want out of your dental career.... if you want to be your own boss and run things how you want and work your own schedule then the military is not for you. If you are flexible and don't mind working for people and you are ok with working with the materials and equipment supplied for you then you will be fine in the military. Its all about personal choice.

Do your homework. Visit a nearby military dental clinic and really question the people there and how they like it. For some the military is a great career and others not so much. Talk to all ranks... especially the Captains (or Lieutenants in the Navy) about quality of life. They are the entry level docs that you will be upon entering. Talk to the mid level Major/Lieutenant Colonels (Navy Lt Commanders and Commanders) and top rank Colonels (Navy: Captain). I will say it is like starting all over.. you are at the bottom working your way up again in a way... your life will revolve around climbing the ranks... for pay/quality of life etc.

The military is like another job... there are some really great people and some really horrible people. You will work for both. It's what you bring to the party so to speak. Attitude goes a long way and of course flexibility.

Great writeup! I was going to get out until I started moonlighting, then I was crazy to get out! The money starts to become good after about 6 years. Additionally, if you specialize, the money is very good...then the only real arguments for getting out are having control of your practice and stability in your family. If your family is on board for the military (huge help!) then it is a great deal to stay in!

I suggest for everyone to moonlight just so you know what you are getting into before you hang up your uniform. The military is not for everyone, and private practice is not for everyone...it is all about finding what you like and what you enjoy!

 

[umkcdds]

if you become a specialist, you have to stay in for about 25 years, and make O-6 before you start making the kind of money you can make your first several years out of residency in the civilian world......

 

[AFDDS]

if you become a specialist, you have to stay in for about 25 years, and make O-6 before you start making the kind of money you can make your first several years out of residency in the civilian world......

True. However, military service is not and should not be about the money.

 

[umkcdds]

True. However, military service is not and should not be about the money.

i won't argue with you there, but you can only retain so many people merely on the pride of service alone.

 

[AFDDS]

i won't argue with you there, but you can only retain so many people merely on the pride of service alone.

You make a good point as well. To serve a career in the military, you have to be willing to give up a few things that you would have in the civilian world. However, to have a civilian career, you have to be willing to give up some things you may or may not have in the military. I think you have to go at this from more than one approach.

If you are considering a career in the military or considering whether or not you should stay or go, I think you should sit down and make a pros and cons list. you need to look at every aspect and see if the pros or cons have more meaning to you. Good examples are your perspective and Airborne Dentist's perspective. Your point is, I think, you will make more money quicker in civilian practice. Airborne's perspective, I think, is the hectic lifestyle of civilian practice may not be worth the extra money.

I've lived both sides. I've seen people do very well and I've seen people crash and burn from a business standpoint. Everyone needs to make their own informed decision on how they want to practice. I'll also be the first to admit that the military lifstyle isn't for everyone. I think almost everyone on here would agree getting a HPSP and spending 3-5 years in the military to get your AEGD and some experience is time well spent. Those years in the grand scheme of things are a drop in the bucket compared to your whole career. I think people should spend the time serving and then make their own decision. It's too easy to be tainted by someone else's bad experiences or hypnotized by someone else's great experiences. I think the AF has a good thing going right now. Our leaders are genuinely concerned about whether or not we enjoy our practices. I can say I enjoy mine and that keeps me in more than the money.

 

[Doc E239]

Checking back in on this subject after a few years....
About not running a private practice, but doing ridiculous extra duties. You will constantly be doing things that should be done by assistants in the clinic. Following rules governed by the hospital (on the most part never in private practice)... yes ...
I truly believe it is FALSE when the recruiters and higher ranked officers say, "Join the military and just focus on being a dentist".... sorry.... they are just setting you up for a big disappointment. You will spend most of your day BEGGING people to do their jobs. If you liked begging assistants and office workers at your dental schools .... then YOU ARE IN LUCK... The military is full of that. Want bad lab work... YOU ARE IN LUCK... because they are constantly training new people and when they get good after many years... they put them in an admin job so they can promote. Civilian practice (usually) has assistants and lab techs that WANTED to be those jobs and went to school... military is full of people that were told to be these positions because they did not score high enough on their ASVAB test to do anything else. don't get me wrong... there are a few outliers out there that are great to work with, but don't you worry... they or you will soon be pulled to do something else. Then you get to start all over again and again and again training new techs so they can leave. So you will spend your day trying not to see patients because you are begging aux staff to do their job so you can do yours then BAM... extra duty pulls you out of clinic and you are begging an assistant to do their part, but it doesn't work out so you just do it yourself.... over and over. I am sure private practice has its fair share of woes... i wouldn't suggest being an associate for someone too long... but when you are the owner operator its YOUR show... assistants, techs, admin: work or get out! trust me.. you wont have that control in the military or associateship... in private practice at least you have the opportunity to surround yourself with motivated professional staff that make your life a little less stressed and you are a TEAM working together....

 

[ChapelHillT]

Checking back in on this subject after a few years....
About not running a private practice, but doing ridiculous extra duties. You will constantly be doing things that should be done by assistants in the clinic. Following rules governed by the hospital (on the most part never in private practice)... yes ...
I truly believe it is FALSE when the recruiters and higher ranked officers say, "Join the military and just focus on being a dentist".... sorry.... they are just setting you up for a big disappointment. You will spend most of your day BEGGING people to do their jobs. If you liked begging assistants and office workers at your dental schools .... then YOU ARE IN LUCK... The military is full of that. Want bad lab work... YOU ARE IN LUCK... because they are constantly training new people and when they get good after many years... they put them in an admin job so they can promote. Civilian practice (usually) has assistants and lab techs that WANTED to be those jobs and went to school... military is full of people that were told to be these positions because they did not score high enough on their ASVAB test to do anything else. don't get me wrong... there are a few outliers out there that are great to work with, but don't you worry... they or you will soon be pulled to do something else. Then you get to start all over again and again and again training new techs so they can leave. So you will spend your day trying not to see patients because you are begging aux staff to do their job so you can do yours then BAM... extra duty pulls you out of clinic and you are begging an assistant to do their part, but it doesn't work out so you just do it yourself.... over and over. I am sure private practice has its fair share of woes... i wouldn't suggest being an associate for someone too long... but when you are the owner operator its YOUR show... assistants, techs, admin: work or get out! trust me.. you wont have that control in the military or associateship... in private practice at least you have the opportunity to surround yourself with motivated professional staff that make your life a little less stressed and you are a TEAM working together....

Many thanks for sharing your insight. I just enrolled as a 1st year and am strongly considering the HSCP program, and really appreciate hearing any and all perspectives/experiences out there. Where are you in regards to your commitment time? Based on your dissatisfaction with military dentistry and that your original post was 09, I'm assuming you'll be getting out soon? Just curious... Thanks again!

 

[vellnueve]

I haven't had to beg our guys to do anything, we have a great team here at my clinic.

 

[teeth63a]

Checking back in on this subject after a few years....
About not running a private practice, but doing ridiculous extra duties. You will constantly be doing things that should be done by assistants in the clinic. Following rules governed by the hospital (on the most part never in private practice)... yes ...
I truly believe it is FALSE when the recruiters and higher ranked officers say, "Join the military and just focus on being a dentist".... sorry.... they are just setting you up for a big disappointment. You will spend most of your day BEGGING people to do their jobs. If you liked begging assistants and office workers at your dental schools .... then YOU ARE IN LUCK... The military is full of that. Want bad lab work... YOU ARE IN LUCK... because they are constantly training new people and when they get good after many years... they put them in an admin job so they can promote. Civilian practice (usually) has assistants and lab techs that WANTED to be those jobs and went to school... military is full of people that were told to be these positions because they did not score high enough on their ASVAB test to do anything else. don't get me wrong... there are a few outliers out there that are great to work with, but don't you worry... they or you will soon be pulled to do something else. Then you get to start all over again and again and again training new techs so they can leave. So you will spend your day trying not to see patients because you are begging aux staff to do their job so you can do yours then BAM... extra duty pulls you out of clinic and you are begging an assistant to do their part, but it doesn't work out so you just do it yourself.... over and over. I am sure private practice has its fair share of woes... i wouldn't suggest being an associate for someone too long... but when you are the owner operator its YOUR show... assistants, techs, admin: work or get out! trust me.. you wont have that control in the military or associateship... in private practice at least you have the opportunity to surround yourself with motivated professional staff that make your life a little less stressed and you are a TEAM working together....

I've has some of these problems in active duty but not to the degree you're saying. The worst part is problem employees who are lazy. But they're usually moved else where. I had to smile reading your post because sometimes I wish I was back on active duty where I have a FRACTION of the stresses that I have today as a private practice owner. Do I run the show? Yes I do. But there are a lot of financial and managerial hassles that come with it.

With my style of leadership, I managed to keep the good workers close, and those who weren't team players removed themselves out of the picture.

 

[Doc E239]

Thanks Teeth63a... I do admire your position and I have read your personal thread. I am very impressed with your candor as well with your experience. I think it is great you had a good assignment and an overall good experience and really respect your position. I am sure you talked with a lot of seasoned dentists about military life and dentistry and their experiences when you were AD and during your Guard/Reserve duty. There are two subjects here (dentistry and military)... I am just covering the dentistry aspect of military and not necessarily the grand scope of military life, deployments, PCS's, etc. I thank you for your service and greatly respect you for it and for your continued service in the reserves. I was a reservist for well over a decade (enlisted and officer) and active duty now for about a decade. I have seen ALL sides of military dentistry from all branches ( i have been in two and trained with three). I have to admit, my first post here was more objective than my second... second was a rant an unfair to alot of enlisted (but still true in most respects). The military is definitely a place for extra training... but at a price. I am not uneducated in the ways of private practice with its special set of issues. I have been in the dental field in one way or another for my entire adult life so i feel safe in saying I stand by what i have stated. I have seen many many many newly graduated dentists come into the military and the light just get sucked out of their eyes. In many ways I agree with not letting new dentists just run off doing any procedures they want to ... that they need "guidance" and "looking out" after. That is the main reason why the branches want new people to do a residency... so the higher ups can trust that you are going to do it the military way and safely. I have seen some new dentists get into over their heads.... that part must suck when you are in private practice and no back up. but... private practice stress and all ... you still have the authority to hire the best and get rid of the rest (granted the best apply at your office). I have worked with some amazing assistants and some really really bad ones. such is life. Big clinic politics suck. if you stay in you NEED to specialize to have some form of control over your life. I train residents and l give them as objective a view as possible. I have had really good experiences and really bad ones. ... that just life. Good and bad in anything. Stress is inevitable in dentistry. Military or not. Its which pile of stress do you want to deal with. You deal with some pretty pitiful stressors the early (first 6 YEARS) of your career in the military... but i am sure its no bed of roses for those right out of dental school in private practice either. The things i bring up are things people in the later years of military career dentists dont have to put up with as much... because like i said... its a race to get out of scrubs. you'll be hard pressed to get most to admit that... but its true. Some like the break in practice to play soldier or sailor or airman and war fighter train. Long story short: I have know many many many dentist from all over the country and the world. the same story surfaces across all generations and specialties. It is a very personal choice... military isn't for everyone... just like Dentistry is not for everyone. Unfortunately both really have to be experienced first hand to make that decision. Dentists should ask as many people their story as they can, but its really going to take experiencing it for themselves to decide. 3 years is really not that long in the greater scheme of your career. It at leasts gives you some insight. I have seen some like you that had a great first assignment, then a bad one and get out. Some reversed. Some get out after 12 years and some stay in that swore they would get out after 3 years. Either way, get all the specialty training you can get while your there.... like i said. If people decide they dont like dentistry (very few will admit to it, but you can tell the ones by how they do as little of it as they can in the military and get away with it) they can do admin. And there is nothing wrong with that or anything to be ashamed of. The reserves is a great way to get your military "fix" if you want to live in both worlds for sure and i highly recommend asking reserve dentists their take. Not much actual dentistry occurs on weekend duty - but my experiences a lot of sickcall dentistry during your two week annual summer duty. Nearly everyone i know that has gotten out regrets it ... at first. They always focus on the good parts of the military to remember and not the reasons they got out (human nature). But... very rarely do they get back in. its a lot of work to transition out and into a private practice so of course you think back at how "easy" the military dentists have it. A lot of hard work and debt. Your reasons are personal and varied. Spouses have to be on board 100% either way. Good luck with your decisions and i hope you enter the military with ALL the facts so you are not "slapped" in the face with a cold glass of reality when you get there.
Thats all. One day i may post my entire military history. Its a love/hate relationship for sure. But, like most careers. Everyone has a bad day. Its what you decide to do with that bad day and overall experience that really matters.
(sorry for the grammar and spelling here)....

 

[Bis-GMA111]

would you all say that the military isn't worth it even if you have to take out ~250k-300k in loans for school?

i'm about 90% sure i want to join because dental school tuition is insane, but now i'm having some reservations about it

 

[vellnueve]

Right now I plan to stay in. There's a lot of bull****, but talking with my classmates they deal with a lot of bull**** as well. Right now I'm at a very small clinic with one other dentist and basically get autonomy to do pretty much whatever I'd like to do.

 

[teeth63a]

The good thing about this forum is that military prospects can get all points of view, the good and the bad. Thanks for sharing your experience. You're right, I was really, really lucky that I was in a place where the command climate fostered independence and growth. I know commands that micromanage. It really is the luck of the draw, but a big part of it is what you make of it. As I advance in rank, I see a lot more of the politicking that goes on, and you're also right, it's a drag.

When I think about it, I don't think I let the personality conflicts or the management issues get under my skin. I focused on what I wanted to do and exerted control over the things that I could influence. I learned quickly my first assistant was a rotten apple. My second assistant was incompetent, and finally the third assistant I landed who was with me for half my rotation, I got along with perfectly well.

So again, thanks for your experience, military prospects definitely have something to learn from it.