Military Marriages

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NewOrleansSaints19

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I am a HM2 Navy Reservist, and about a year from getting my undergrad and my girlfriend is a med school student who just finished her first semester and is about to sign her navy contract. I am thinking of proposing soon but i have a few questions and i want to ask the right people and this i feel will give me the most accurate and thoughtful responses.
My main concern is military life in general, i was only considered active duty during training and since have been in reserve status. My girlfriend is going active duty once she finishes med school. i was planning on applying to med schools in the coming year and then renewing my contract and going commissioned as well. how does the mix of both of us being doctors and in the navy work? will we be stationed together? what if we have children? it just seems like its something that can be worked out but in order for that to be so, is there anything in particular that we should do? or request?

Thank you in advance
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I did figure that much due to her going on to residency and all. But, after we are both out of med school and residency, is there a high potential for us to be stationed together?
 
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If you are both active duty they will attempt to collocate you after residency. (During residency they don’t have to take it in to account but will often try) there are no gauruntees though.
 
Your girlfriend is signing up for a 3 year HPSP?

How confident are you of your med school chances?

If you renew an enlisted contract, you aren’t certain to be free to go to med school.
 
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The stars are not in your favor, whether the military is part of the picture or not.


She'll be a MS2 from 2018-19, when you're applying. If you're accepted she'll be a MS3 2019-20 and you'll be a MS1. You'd very, very likely be at different schools, totally independent of whether or not either of you are in the military. The military doesn't have any input at all re: where you'll be going to school, so expect to be apart.

2020-21, you're a MS2, shes a MS4. Apart.

2021-22, you're a MS3, she'll be an intern. Still, apart.

2022-23, you're a MS4, she'll probably be a Navy GMO. Still, apart. If she's a resident - still, apart.

2023-24, when you're an intern ... she'll still be a GMO. Still, apart. If she's a resident - maybe together.

2024-25, you'll probably be a GMO, when she's continuing residency or heading back to residency. Apart.

If you go to medical school, best case scenario, you'll be apart for the next 6 years.

If you both stay out of the military, you could conceivably be re-united in 2021 if she interns at a hospital near your medical school.
 
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Please talk your girlfriend out of joining the Navy if you want to get married. There’s many ways to serve your country and many ways to pay back student loan debt for those who are willing to practice in less desirable places for a few years after residency.

This is pretty much the worst case scenario for military medicine: Navy, different year groups, dual physician couple. Your alternate scenario is not ideal but orders of magnitude better than if you were both in uniform.
 
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Agree that different year groups and unknown on your end makes this VERY difficult.

Devil's advocate idea... (pgg and gastrapathy will love this!)

If she really wants to join and also is OK going to Walter Reed for Internship, you could delay your entry and go to USUHS to start that same year. That's literally the only shot you have of linking up on a possible similar pathway. Still very unlikely because no guarantee she'll match at WR, possible GMO tour and also no guarantee she can stay there for residency. BUT, military does pay dislocation allowance if they separate you, so they are very keen on trying to keep people together if possible...but your situation almost makes it impossible in every aspect. Even if the stars align and the above happens it is almost guaranteed you will be geo-bach for some extended period when your internship, GMO tour, residency comes along.
 
NewOrleansSaints19 said:
But, after we are both out of med school and residency, is there a high potential for us to be stationed together?
Click to expand...

Once you are both active duty staff physicians it is pretty easy to be co-located (but not guaranteed). That being said, that is a LONG WAY off for you two and many unknowns along the way.

One or both of you can always sign up to serve later and have loans paid back by military once things settle down if family and being located together is more important than joining the military right now (which is should be in my opinion).
 
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Speaking of deleted posts (although still quoted, nice loophole ;) ), my response to the orthopod with the classy picture of an american flag dressed up as a dollar sign was removed for violating the terms of service. So now I feel obligated to explain my sentiments in more detail.

First, by calling me out in his post, he is attempting to make it appear I have an ax to grind and weaken my argument.

Second, what he is proposing is such bad advice that it is potentially harmful to this OP or any future reader. Lets look at why:
1. In applying to medical school, prospective students should apply broadly to maximize their chances of acceptance. This is the opposite advice.
2. Dislocation allowance is a pittance and absolutely trivial compared with the cost of separation. Including that in any decision is absurd and even mentioning it reflects a total lack of respect for the person seeking advice.
3. Delaying application to medical school costs an entire year of attending earnings in your career. This would be given away despite the poor odds of this gamble working.
4. "pretty easy to be colocated" reflects his personal luck and not the reality of countless physicians in the .mil. Its somewhat easier to colocate if one of you is a civilian and is flexible (i.e. locums). BTW, there is absolutely no requirement to colocate anyone if either physician is in training. So with this fantastic never overlapping residencies and USUHS plan, they can count on what...8 years apart unless he's a congresscritter's kid. But at least once they are colocated, they'll be eligible for sequential deployments.
5. The girlfriend is apparently signing up for a 3 year HPSP in this plan. Bad choice. But not one that consigns the couple to 10+ years of service with all the issues that are going on now. This plan still has them dealing with the military in 15 years. Even the clairvoyant among us have no idea what will happen to military medicine in that period
6. Bethesda is the last place to send someone trying to colocate while AD Navy. There are no operational billets there so no GMO jobs. Portsmouth>SD>>>>>>Bethesda
7. The military is not "very keen" to keep couples together. They accept that its better if they can but its pretty far down the list of billeting rules. He keeps making statements like this in his posts that are stated as facts but are simply false.

Really, its this last point that lead to the name calling. He doesn't know what he professes to know or he's lying to make military medicine look better than it is. Either way, that's offensive.

Unrelated, @MaoMaoKitty's thread was pretty specific about her situation and therefore not anonymous. So I'm glad it was taken down.
 
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Wow, such thin skin around here. I wasn’t calling anyone out, I was trying to make light of our previous discussions and put water under the bridge but I guess no luck.

You can call me whatever you want, but to call me liar is a new low. Funny too since I’ve been in since 2003, am married to a USUHS classmate and saw first hand the sacrifices each of us had to make to put our family first and be able to be co-located together.

I said multiple times in my post the inprobability of what I was describing and the almost guaranteed time apart...so how is that misleading? I even followed it up with stating that it would be better for them to join later once life is settled if they still want to serve and have their loans paid back. Not sure what you want from me. Want me to change my picture?
 
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Gastrapathy said:
Speaking of deleted posts (although still quoted, nice loophole ;) ), my response to the orthopod with the classy picture of an american flag dressed up as a dollar sign was removed for violating the terms of service.
Click to expand...
From the TOS:

"Only in extreme rare and limited circumstances will SDN accept requests to delete posts you have made.", which means every darn day now. If they're going to do it, just be honest about it, that a post will be deleted at the first whisper of ANY protest, at ALL. (Those are my emphasis added.)
 
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backrow said:
Which is unfortunate because it actually contained good advice to someone who may be in a similar situation in the future......
Click to expand...

I don't entirely disagree.

However, it was her thread, and it first and foremost was about helping her, and very distantly secondarily creating a self-help resource for future generations.


Apollyon said:
From the TOS:

"Only in extreme rare and limited circumstances will SDN accept requests to delete posts you have made.", which means every darn day now. If they're going to do it, just be honest about it, that a post will be deleted at the first whisper of ANY protest, at ALL. (Those are my emphasis added.)
Click to expand...

To be clear, there wasn't a "protest" that led to the thread removal. No anger or accusations. The OP asked that it be removed.

Per the helpdesk

"deleting posts (and threads) is a Gold Donor privilege. You can review donor privileges and become a donor here"

Any user can "delete" any post they've made by editing the post. This doesn't remove their words if another user quoted them, of course.

Gold Donors can delete threads they have started.

From time to time a person who isn't a Gold Donor will request that a thread they have created be removed. These are handled on a case-by-case basis, and we try to be reasonable, balancing the needs of the individual with respect for the other users who have contributed their thoughts, advice, time, and effort to those threads. Usually these requests are a result of a person posting more personal information about themselves than is generally prudent. Usually these people are under stress, confused, anxious, looking for guidance, perhaps a little more vulnerable than they normally are.

There's a difference between a user asking us to delete a thread because it turned into a debate that they lost and they're embarassed for saying something dumb, and a user asking us to delete a thread because they were at a crossroads in life and the act of asking for help revealed too much personal information.

In general, we give the benefit of the doubt to individuals who appear to be acting in good faith, not trolling, not abusing other members.

Those of us who posted in that thread to offer advice to her can be assured that she saw it.


Finally, to be clear, I'm a moderator for the anesthesia forums, not this military medicine forum. I have no real power here :) and didn't remove the thread, but I think doing so at her request was reasonable.
 
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pgg said:
I don't entirely disagree.

However, it was her thread, and it first and foremost was about helping her, and very distantly secondarily creating a self-help resource for future generations.




To be clear, there wasn't a "protest" that led to the thread removal. No anger or accusations. The OP asked that it be removed.

Per the helpdesk

"deleting posts (and threads) is a Gold Donor privilege. You can review donor privileges and become a donor here"

Any user can "delete" any post they've made by editing the post. This doesn't remove their words if another user quoted them, of course.

Gold Donors can delete threads they have started.

From time to time a person who isn't a Gold Donor will request that a thread they have created be removed. These are handled on a case-by-case basis, and we try to be reasonable, balancing the needs of the individual with respect for the other users who have contributed their thoughts, advice, time, and effort to those threads. Usually these requests are a result of a person posting more personal information about themselves than is generally prudent. Usually these people are under stress, confused, anxious, looking for guidance, perhaps a little more vulnerable than they normally are.

There's a difference between a user asking us to delete a thread because it turned into a debate that they lost and they're embarassed for saying something dumb, and a user asking us to delete a thread because they were at a crossroads in life and the act of asking for help revealed too much personal information.

In general, we give the benefit of the doubt to individuals who appear to be acting in good faith, not trolling, not abusing other members.

Those of us who posted in that thread to offer advice to her can be assured that she saw it.


Finally, to be clear, I'm a moderator for the anesthesia forums, not this military medicine forum. I have no real power here :) and didn't remove the thread, but I think doing so at her request was reasonable.
Click to expand...
I wasn't talking about that thread. Everything you say is black letter true, but not applicable to my post.
 
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I don’t really mind the removal of that post and the note to me was reasonable. Honestly it’s just as well since it made me go back and explain my feelings on the “advice”.

@militaryPHYS
I think I answered “how was it misleading?” above. I think your confident posts about the future of the MHS are misleading. The leadership doesn’t even know what will happen. I so what word should I use for someone who spreads false information to the detriment of future young physicians?
 
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Gastrapathy said:
Speaking of deleted posts (although still quoted, nice loophole ;) ), my response to the orthopod with the classy picture of an american flag dressed up as a dollar sign was removed for violating the terms of service. So now I feel obligated to explain my sentiments in more detail.

First, by calling me out in his post, he is attempting to make it appear I have an ax to grind and weaken my argument.

Second, what he is proposing is such bad advice that it is potentially harmful to this OP or any future reader. Lets look at why:
1. In applying to medical school, prospective students should apply broadly to maximize their chances of acceptance. This is the opposite advice.
2. Dislocation allowance is a pittance and absolutely trivial compared with the cost of separation. Including that in any decision is absurd and even mentioning it reflects a total lack of respect for the person seeking advice.
3. Delaying application to medical school costs an entire year of attending earnings in your career. This would be given away despite the poor odds of this gamble working.
4. "pretty easy to be colocated" reflects his personal luck and not the reality of countless physicians in the .mil. Its somewhat easier to colocate if one of you is a civilian and is flexible (i.e. locums). BTW, there is absolutely no requirement to colocate anyone if either physician is in training. So with this fantastic never overlapping residencies and USUHS plan, they can count on what...8 years apart unless he's a congresscritter's kid. But at least once they are colocated, they'll be eligible for sequential deployments.
5. The girlfriend is apparently signing up for a 3 year HPSP in this plan. Bad choice. But not one that consigns the couple to 10+ years of service with all the issues that are going on now. This plan still has them dealing with the military in 15 years. Even the clairvoyant among us have no idea what will happen to military medicine in that period
6. Bethesda is the last place to send someone trying to colocate while AD Navy. There are no operational billets there so no GMO jobs. Portsmouth>SD>>>>>>Bethesda
7. The military is not "very keen" to keep couples together. They accept that its better if they can but its pretty far down the list of billeting rules. He keeps making statements like this in his posts that are stated as facts but are simply false.

Really, its this last point that lead to the name calling. He doesn't know what he professes to know or he's lying to make military medicine look better than it is. Either way, that's offensive.

Unrelated, @MaoMaoKitty's thread was pretty specific about her situation and therefore not anonymous. So I'm glad it was taken down.
Click to expand...

I know the plural of anecdote is not data, but this hasn't been what I have observed in the military. It seems like colocation is trumped only by EFMP in terms of milimids priorities when it comes to detailing. I have only seen one couple that was not truely colocated, and they were all of 3 hours apart, and only for one year. I have seen the military CREATE positions to colocated couples, which is far more than they'll do to retain people. It seems like, if you are both attendings, it is pretty rare not to be colocated.
 
There are plenty of examples of successful collocations and unsuccessful. Thankfully the culture is changing to primarily attempt to make it work unless difference in service, specialty or year group make it impossible. My wife and I are looking at likely dislocation years coming up because of fellowships, but we understood the possibility when we signed up and will make it work. Hopefully we can coordinate FTOS with an MTF location and stick together, but who knows at this point.
 
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Gastrapathy said:
Your girlfriend is signing up for a 3 year HPSP?

How confident are you of your med school chances?

If you renew an enlisted contract, you aren’t certain to be free to go to med school.
Click to expand...



Yes she is.
I like to be modest but with being a firefighter/paramedic and years of working as a clinical technician in a cardiac unit and a HM i feel as long as i can score well in my MCAT i will have quite high chances.
I was going to wait for my current contract to expire before applying for a new one and go the commissioned route
 
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However hard the military tries to colocate attending couples, you're still looking at the better part of a decade while one or both of you are in training, when colocation is difficult or impossible ... and not a priority.

I won't go so far as to say she shouldn't take the 3 year HPSP contract because I don't know anything about her, but it's a rare person for whom the 3 year HPSP deal is a good one.

Dual military couples spend a lot of time apart, even if they are colocated. Deployments and associated workups have a way of being staggered.

I'm not trying to be an antirecruiter here, but go in with eyes open, and see the reality that a decade's worth of a long distance relationship is extremely likely.
 
I'll echo the above, and emphasis that colocation is encouraged but not guaranteed (failing to plan, is planning to fail). I'll further foot stomp that if you decide to go the .mil route you should both be in the same service.

Unrelated...I did a 3yr HSCP and haven't regretted it.
 
Gastrapathy said:
Your girlfriend is signing up for a 3 year HPSP?

How confident are you of your med school chances?

If you renew an enlisted contract, you aren’t certain to be free to go to med school.
Click to expand...

My wife and I were both active duty physicians. She was Air Force, I, Army. We were separated 2 out of the 4 years of my payback. Prior to marriage, we were separated 2 out of the 3 years we dated/engaged (during our residency/fellowship). If same services, then it can be easier to keep you guys together, though not a guarantee (depending on your specialties). However if different services, your spouse might as well be a civilian because they don't give a rat's @ss.
 
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