Moral/Ethical Dilemma.. checking URM status?

Started by ANF1986
This forum made possible through the generous support of SDN members, donors, and sponsors. Thank you.
Get help with your application

Use all the free resources available to you from SDN: articles, guides, expert advising, forums discussions, and school research.

Browse articles Compare schools My application plan Read Interview Feedback
Practice for interviews Ask an Advisor
Advertisement - Members don't see this ad
ANF1986 said:
As I said earlier, I was uninformed that Portuguese was actually considered a Hispanic ethnicity.
Click to expand...

I understand that. But you have always known that you were half portuguese right? And you have never claimed it before so why start now is what I am saying. Regardless of you just now finding out that it is considered hispanic. I say you stick with your guns and mark that you are caucasian which is what you have always claimed. Stay true to yourself and be honest.
 
ANF1986 said:
Would you mind citing the source of your information for me?

Thank you...
Click to expand...

I think you have enough opinions to come to your own conclusion. If you want to check the box then check it. Nothing is stopping you.
 
Last edited:
Advertisement - Members don't see this ad
You've got to identify with the ethnic group you select if you select one. For race, you have to look the race.
Portuguese usually can qualify as Hispanic because they are also Spanish, given all the mixing. Also, the Portuguese were often looked down upon until the 1990s. I know lots of Portuguese/Irish mixes.
But in order to pass as Hispanic, you'd better speak Spanish somewhat. And make sure you cover name changes like Sores-Suarez, Lopes-Lopez, etc. If you're from Fall River/New Bedford, MA. or Newark, NJ you probably could pull it off since you'd be able to deal with urban poverty.
 
lightfire22000 said:
You've got to identify with the ethnic group you select if you select one. For race, you have to look the race.
Portuguese usually can qualify as Hispanic because they are also Spanish, given all the mixing. Also, the Portuguese were often looked down upon until the 1990s. I know lots of Portuguese/Irish mixes.
But in order to pass as Hispanic, you'd better speak Spanish somewhat. And make sure you cover name changes like Sores-Suarez, Lopes-Lopez, etc. If you're from Fall River/New Bedford, MA. or Newark, NJ you probably could pull it off since you'd be able to deal with urban poverty.
Click to expand...

This is your opinion, not fact. You can check any box which you consider yourself to be. If your parents are from Mexico, you can consider yourself to be Hispanic American even if you don't "look the part" or identify with mexican (or hispanic) culture at all. This is a question of ancestry, not cultural consciousness or identity.
 
thejarb said:
OK this person is ridiculous! I'm calling it out: TROLL!
Click to expand...


What is ridiculous? Asking a perfectly legitimate question. Also, could someone please fill me in on what exactly constitutes a 'troll'?
 
ANF1986 said:
Would you mind citing the source of your information for me?

Thank you...
Click to expand...

new AAMC definition: http://www.aamc.org/meded/urm/statusofnewdefinition.pdf

old definition:
Before June 26, 2003, the AAMC used the term "underrepresented minority (URM)," which consisted of Blacks, Mexican-Americans, Native Americans (that is, American Indians, Alaska Natives, and Native Hawaiians), and mainland Puerto Ricans. The AAMC remains committed to ensuring access to medical education and medicine-related careers for individuals from these four historically underrepresented racial/ethnic groups.

yeah, you aren't it. Last time I checked an person of mixed European descent is not URM.
 
Handy388 said:
new AAMC definition: http://www.aamc.org/meded/urm/statusofnewdefinition.pdf

old definition:
Before June 26, 2003, the AAMC used the term "underrepresented minority (URM)," which consisted of Blacks, Mexican-Americans, Native Americans (that is, American Indians, Alaska Natives, and Native Hawaiians), and mainland Puerto Ricans. The AAMC remains committed to ensuring access to medical education and medicine-related careers for individuals from these four historically underrepresented racial/ethnic groups.

yeah, you aren't it. Last time I checked an person of mixed European descent is not URM.
Click to expand...

Ok, well you failed to read the entire thread. I conceded that I would not be considered a URM. We were merely speaking about whether or not a Portuguese ancestry was appropriately classified as Hispanic on other forms, as evidenced by my earlier post which I've cited for your convenience below.

ANF1986 said:
Lol I think thats a little bit of a stretch. I was simply asking if checking Hispanic or Latino was appropriate. It seems that my idea of what constituted "URM" was way off, as I thought anything but Caucasian fulfilled that. Appearently that is not so, and even if I was from the country of SPAIN, according to AAMC I would not be considered a "URM," as they have criteria for race as well. ¿Comprende mi amigo?
Click to expand...
 
I think you know what is okay and what is not. Let it go. Go ahead and put hispanic. If you by any chance do have a hispanic/Latino as your interviewer.... good luck.
 
Fp02c said:
I think you know what is okay and what is not. Let it go. Go ahead and put hispanic. If you by any chance do have a hispanic/Latino as your interviewer.... good luck.
Click to expand...

If the OP claims on his application to be Hispanic, there is a very good chance one of his interviewers WILL BE Hispanic and it's happened where they conduct the interview in Spanish, especially if you claimed on your application you speak Spanish. At the very least they'll dig deep into your heritage and find out your connection to the culture and be able to sniff out any imposters like the OP. I'm sure that will pretty much be the end of your chances at that school.
 
Fine point of distinction I've been curious about (has no affect on me whatsoever): If your parents and all of your relatives are from Spain, you're obviously Hispanic, BUT --> are you not also Caucasian 😕? (i.e. of European ancestry).
 
pianola said:
Fine point of distinction I've been curious about (has no affect on me whatsoever): If your parents and all of your relatives are from Spain, you're obviously Hispanic, BUT --> are you not also Caucasian 😕? (i.e. of European ancestry).
Click to expand...

Ethnicity would be hispanic, race would be caucasian. Which is why many survey things have hispanic/non-white or something similar as an option.
 
According to the US Census, you are not Hispanic. We can argue about semantics, but that's kind of like the white South African arguing that they are African-American. We all know what Hispanic is SUPPOSED to stand for, and regardless of whether you're 50% Portuguese or 100% Portuguese, you do not fall into that category.

EDIT: Here's a direct quote from the census. It actually makes it seem like Spain could be interpreted to be part of this group, but I really do think that it is understood that Spaniards are not included when we are talking about the Hispanic experience or challenges Hispanics may face in our society. Other sites specifically note that Portuguese speakers are NOT considered Hispanic by the census.

Hispanic Origin. Persons of Hispanic origin were identified by a question that asked for self-identification of the person's origin or descent. Respondents were asked to select their origin (and the origin of other household members) from a "flash card" listing ethnic origins. Persons of Hispanic origin, in particular, were those who indicated that their origin was Mexican, Puerto Rican, Cuban, Central or South American, or some other Hispanic origin. It should be noted that persons of Hispanic origin may be of any race.

And the source: http://www.census.gov/population/www/socdemo/hispanic/hispdef.html
 
Last edited:
Advertisement - Members don't see this ad
scarletgirl777 said:
According to the US Census, you are not Hispanic. We can argue about semantics, but that's kind of like the white South African arguing that they are African-American. We all know what Hispanic is SUPPOSED to stand for, and regardless of whether you're 50% Portuguese or 100% Portuguese, you do not fall into that category.

EDIT: Here's a direct quote from the census. It actually makes it seem like Spain could be interpreted to be part of this group, but I really do think that it is understood that Spaniards are not included when we are talking about the Hispanic experience or challenges Hispanics may face in our society. Other sites specifically note that Portuguese speakers are NOT considered Hispanic by the census.

Hispanic Origin. Persons of Hispanic origin were identified by a question that asked for self-identification of the person's origin or descent. Respondents were asked to select their origin (and the origin of other household members) from a "flash card" listing ethnic origins. Persons of Hispanic origin, in particular, were those who indicated that their origin was Mexican, Puerto Rican, Cuban, Central or South American, or some other Hispanic origin. It should be noted that persons of Hispanic origin may be of any race.

And the source: http://www.census.gov/population/www/socdemo/hispanic/hispdef.html
Click to expand...

Told you so ANF1986 :laugh:
 
WannaBePreMed said:
Told you so ANF1986 :laugh:
Click to expand...

Lol, mature...do I have cooties too? :claps:


Anyway, thanks for the information Scarlet, that was certainly helpful. I'm a conservative Republican, so I probably wont be checking that box even if I legitimately could, which it seems could potentially cause a controversy during an interview.
 
ANF1986 said:
I'm a conservative Republican, so I probably wont be checking that box even if I legitimately could
Click to expand...

Come on guys. OP needs some moral support. Making an "ethical" decision isn't exactly a cake-walk.

I say go for it OP. Maybe one day when you have that degree in your hand, you can be content knowing you deserved the advantage. After all you were under-represented weren't you.
 
ANF1986 said:

"Etymologically, the term "Hispanic" is derived from Hispania,[1] the name given by the ancient Romans to the Iberian Peninsula (present-day Spain, Portugal, Andorra, and Gibraltar)."



Hmmmm......?
Click to expand...

Since you seem to be so confused I say GO FOR IT....CHECK IT...and then let me know how it goes. Please be sure to include exerpts from conversations when they inform you of your demise...although I bet most of those conversations will consist of a series of belly laughs followed by...YOU'RE FIRED FROM LIFE!
 
calnation said:
Come on guys. OP needs some moral support. Making an "ethical" decision isn't exactly a cake-walk.

I say go for it OP. Maybe one day when you have that degree in your hand, you can be content knowing you deserved the advantage. After all you were under-represented weren't you.
Click to expand...

Man...You're totally right...Making a thread in order to get information about something that I previously had no knowledge of after speaking to a few people, in order to get more information so that I could arrive at an 'ethical' decision was really out of line wasn't it? That's right, I should have these things bookmarked already and know of every source of information on the internet. I mean, if that were the case, there wouldn't really be a point to making threads at all.

It's quite simple if you read the entire thread you would have noticed that, 1) I asked whether the ethnicity was legitimate and found conflicting sources of information, 2)Scarlett clarified that with census information, 3)several members gave advice that it probably would not be ethical to claim that status, and 4)I agreed with this conclusion and conceded the point.

I can see how it is tempting to jump on the bandwagon and offer a condescending remark in order to establish your supereminence.
 
You know what's kind of funny? In my experience, my friends who clearly and obviously fall into the category of "URM + disadvantaged, etc" are very hesitant to indicate their status whereas friends who are "maybe URM, maybe not" don't hesitate to do so.

That's just my experience.
 
ANF1986 said:
Thats contrary to what I've been told by people who are hispanic/latino. Portugal is next to Spain, and one would naturally think that they are both hispanic. I've been asked to join "hispanic community groups" by local politicians who learned that I had a Portguese parent...This is an interesting topic indeed, Im awaiting some more responses...
Click to expand...

Yeah it is unethical. It's also a lie.

Portugal does not speak Spanish. Therefore it cannot be construed as a Spanish Speaking Country and thus a Hispanic/Latino ethnicity.
 
Last edited:
Last edited:
ANF1986 said:
As I said earlier, I was uninformed that Portuguese was actually considered a Hispanic ethnicity.
Click to expand...

Then why shouldn't people from Florida be able to claim Cuban lineage. I mean they are close to mini-Cuba.

They should get preferential treatment.
 
thejarb said:
I think it should absolutely bother your conscience since it seems like you are knowingly misrepresenting yourself to manipulate the system. Even by your definition, Portugal does not fall under "Latino/Hispanic", as it is a European nation with Portuguese as its official language, not Spanish.
Click to expand...

Brazil is a lie! 😀
 
perhaps the word hispanic has etymologic origins to the Iberian Peninsula, but modern day usage of the term does not include Portuguese and Spanish citizens.

I think it's funny you're trying to emphasize the proximity of Portugal to Spain in hopes to assert your supposed URM-status. Any proud Portuguese would feel NO attachment to Spain or need to justify anything. Travel to Spain/Portugal and ask the people there if they consider themselves to be hispanic. Ask how much they identify with their hispanic brothers in Latin America and you'll run into some straight-up racists. Likewise, speak perfect, emphasized Castilian anywhere in Latin America and see how much they embrace you as one of their own. :laugh:
 
coldweatherblue said:
perhaps the word hispanic has etymologic origins to the Iberian Peninsula, but modern day usage of the term does not include Portuguese and Spanish citizens.

I think it's funny you're trying to emphasize the proximity of Portugal to Spain in hopes to assert your supposed URM-status. Any proud Portuguese would feel NO attachment to Spain or need to justify anything. Travel to Spain/Portugal and ask the people there if they consider themselves to be hispanic. Ask how much they identify with their hispanic brothers in Latin America and you'll run into some straight-up racists. Likewise, speak perfect, emphasized Castilian anywhere in Latin America and see how much they embrace you as one of their own. :laugh:
Click to expand...

I'm pretty sure I was trying to clarify Portuguese as a Hispanic ethnicity, and in the process INACCURATELY used the term "URM," which I later learned (because, i dont know everything, ya know) is restricted to race&ethnicity. But who cares about those little details, or earlier in the thread where I admitted I was indeed wrong...(gee, how many on pre-allo would actually do that). But it's alright, no need to pay attention to those things...


Just hop on...

bandwagon_drawing.jpg
 
Advertisement - Members don't see this ad
ANF1986 said:
Man...You're totally right...Making a thread in order to get information about something that I previously had no knowledge of after speaking to a few people, in order to get more information so that I could arrive at an 'ethical' decision was really out of line wasn't it? That's right, I should have these things bookmarked already and know of every source of information on the internet. I mean, if that were the case, there wouldn't really be a point to making threads at all.
Click to expand...

You could have just called amcas and asked if you qualified for their definition of hispanic/latino. Plain and simple. But instead you posted a thread "contemplating the ethics" of checking of the hispanic/latino box. Despite the fact that you've never identified with being hispanic before, you still tried to fish for some moral support to check off being hispanic. Obviously, there's a well-known URM advantage in doing so or it wouldn't be an ethical question.


ANF1986 said:
I can see how it is tempting to jump on the bandwagon and offer a condescending remark in order to establish your supereminence.
Click to expand...

I can see how it's tempting to use a 5$ word like supereminence to establish your supereminence. 😀
 
calnation said:
You could have just called amcas and asked if you qualified for their definition of hispanic/latino. Plain and simple. But instead you posted a thread "contemplating the ethics" of checking of the hispanic/latino box. Despite the fact that you've never identified with being hispanic before, you still tried to fish for some moral support to check off being hispanic. Obviously, there's a well-known URM advantage in doing so or it wouldn't be an ethical question.




I can see how it's tempting to use a 5$ word like supereminence to establish your supereminence. 😀
Click to expand...

I'm speaking to college educated people so I dont see the need to use 4 letter words in order to convey my point. Lets not dismiss what it was. The question was asked and answered, I conceded the point and admitted I was wrong in the process. However, you still felt compelled to interject your snide remark. 👎
 
ANF1986 said:
I'm speaking to college educated people so I dont see the need to use 4 letter words in order to convey my point. Lets not dismiss what it was. The question was asked and answered, I conceded the point and admitted I was wrong in the process. However, you still felt compelled to interject your snide remark. 👎
Click to expand...


Ok fine. I'm sorry. Honestly I skipped over most of the thread. I shouldn't have been so condescending. I just read this remark:

ANF1986 said:
L I'm a conservative Republican, so I probably wont be checking that box even if I legitimately could, which it seems could potentially cause a controversy during an interview.
Click to expand...

and didn't think you conceded the point for the right reasons (or any reasons brought up by anybody throughout the thread for that matter).
 
calnation said:
Ok fine. I'm sorry. Honestly I skipped over most of the thread. I shouldn't have been so condescending. I just read this remark:



and didn't think you conceded the point for the right reasons (or any reasons brought up by anybody throughout the thread for that matter).
Click to expand...

No problem....I understand people wont always agree, but I always attempt to be as respectful as possible to others views and all I ask is the same courtesy in return. I thought that was a pretty good reason, that even if I was legitimately able to use that on an application I would not beause of my own political ideologies, that it goes against something I believe in.
 
ANF1986 said:
No problem....I understand people wont always agree, but I always attempt to be as respectful as possible to others views and all I ask is the same courtesy in return. I thought that was a pretty good reason, that even if I was legitimately able to use that on an application I would not beause of my own political ideologies, that it goes against something I believe in.
Click to expand...

Not you're political ideologies. Just that you wouldn't do it in fear of interview controversy.
 
ANF1986 said:
Lol, mature...do I have cooties too? :claps:


Anyway, thanks for the information Scarlet, that was certainly helpful. I'm a conservative Republican, so I probably wont be checking that box even if I legitimately could, which it seems could potentially cause a controversy during an interview.
Click to expand...

Yes, yes you do have cooties too :laugh:


I'm just picking on you ANF1986 😛
 
Wow I think some of these responses are rediculous.

"if you didn't check it before, why check now?"

Who CARES?! Whether you checked it before or not, it's a fact-based question. What movitavated your past decisions and what will ultimately determine your future ones are not relevant to the present. Either you are or you aren't X ethnicity. Whether you want to accept the implications that checking that box comes with is up to you but it is what it is.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

R
Dilemma with LOIs
Replies
3
Views
525
LizzyM
LizzyM
E
Research lab dilemma
Replies
13
Views
1K
polymerization
polymerization
D
Ethical Dilemma Letter of Intent TMDSAS
Replies
1
Views
2K
deleted1122679
D
K
Accepted pending status dilemma
Replies
7
Views
3K
IlDestriero
IlDestriero
N
  • Question Question
Updating parent living status
Replies
5
Views
960
nyrexa
N