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more pharmacy layoffs- crap!

Discussion in 'Pharmacy' started by Dred Pirate, Apr 13, 2018 at 4:45 PM.

  1. Dred Pirate

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  3. johnpharm01

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    Wow even mail order.
     
  4. DIPEA

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    very motivational....... now back to programming
     
  5. maria1oh

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    Columbus is already a tough market because of ohio state pharmacy school pumping out new grads.
     
  6. CetiAlphaFive

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    People trying to break into programming in 2018 are the same people who got into pharmacy school after 2010.

    Too late.
     
    PromethazineDM likes this.
  7. DIPEA

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    It is always "too late" compared to people already in the field. Which field is not "too late" to break into? MD/DDS/PA/PhD/MBA or maybe CS, every field is more or less the same uphill battle. It is not easy, but some fields are still significantly better than others, like JDs, who would struggle to even land an articling job nowdays. If pharmacy continues to go down the self-destructive path like this, it is definitely worth the time and effort to change to a better field, like CS, even if CS was not as red-hot as before, but still wayyyyy better than pharmacy.
     
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  8. rph3664

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    That happened to me more than 20 years ago. :(
     
  9. CetiAlphaFive

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    What I'm saying is that people who are really good at "CS" have been doing it since high school.

    All of these jokers who think they're going to learn and do just as well at >26 are fooling themselves.

    The guys that run "coding/programming bootcamps" are laughing to the bank, just like those pharm tech school places
     
  10. GypsyHummus

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    The only field you listed which isn’t saturated is MD and maybe DDS in certain locations. Everyone on the pharmacy forums that think CS is just gonna magically teleport them to the land of sunshine rainbows, lollipops and 100k+ salaries are dead wrong. People are waking up to it being a good field.

    3 best majors for college is Nursing, Engineering, and accounting. Maybe time to go back to college for some people?

    For those pharmacists laid off, if you are good looking and charismatic enough, I would try medical device sales. Those who are not, try and get into research at pharmaceutical companies.

     
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  11. DIPEA

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    Believe it or not, I know a chem phd who transitioned into IT in his mid-30s, and many other examples. Laughing to the bank or not, people are still going to coding bootcamps, and their graduates are landing jobs left and right. So who is really fooling themselves?

    Mind you, CS is a HUGE field. Some sub-domains are very math heavy, like simulation and modelling, whereas some are quite beginner-friendly and don't require much math, like web and app development. Some, like database management, mostly requires writing SQL queries and are not difficult to pick up at all.

    To get a job in IT, you don't have to be good at "CS". You just have to be good at a specific subset of skills you intended positions require. For example, front-end developer jobs mostly only require 3 things: html, css and javascript, and that's it. Coding bootcamps, mostly for web development, don't teach anything other than html, css, javascript and maybe a back-end language like ruby or python. They teach just enough for their graduates to get an entry-level job in web development, and that's it. I recommend you at least know some basic CS concepts before making any claims about CS in general and its job market.
     
    #10 DIPEA, Apr 14, 2018 at 10:08 AM
    Last edited: Apr 14, 2018 at 10:50 AM
  12. DIPEA

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    You obviously know little about R&D at pharmceutical companies, and career outcomes for college majors. I worked in a well-known biotech/pharma company for a year and half at their DMPK department, before heading back for pharmacy school. Anyone without at least a master degree in chem, biochem, biology or pharmaceutical science plus at least a year of industrial R&D working experience has very slim chance of getting hired for an entry-level R&D position. PharmD education has no use in preclinical research. Clinical research, maybe, but since most PharmDs suck at statistical programming and data analysis, not that many PharmDs actually work in clinical research. You would see most PharmDs heavily populate in medical/regulatory/pharmacovigilance departments.

    Nursing and accounting as best majors? It's so hilarious to read. Both are facing huge glut of their own.

    Engineering? not all engineering majors are made equal, just to mind you. EECS graduates overall have the best starting pay among all engineering domains. Environmental engineering probably has the least employability.

    Dead wrong about programming? If you go and actually talk to a few motivated coding bootcamp graduates, you will have a much better idea what I am talking about. Now you are just making blanket confirmatory bias statements without doing much investigation.
     
    #11 DIPEA, Apr 14, 2018 at 10:17 AM
    Last edited: Apr 14, 2018 at 10:43 AM
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  13. johnpharm01

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    Those with innate ability and interest are most likely to succeed in a field. I.e. Tiger Woods playing with his golf club when he was 5. But I can't help think that MOST pharmacists wren't having mock counseling sessions when they were sophomores in high school.

    I am actually thinking about a 2nd career in computer science. I don't have any direct experience in the field. How do you know coding bootcamps are a scam?
     
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  14. Sabril

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    why not come back to clinical? I can't imagine it is that hard for you to land a decent position with your experience?
     
  15. johnpharm01

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    My clinical experience is way too old. It did help me land an interview last year at a hospital.
     
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  17. Apotheker2015

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    You can learn on your own. lynda.com codeacademy.com
     
  18. Apotheker2015

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    As I was planning to move to Ohio. LOL, OK, change of plans then. Cleveland might not be totally out of the picture. It's all going to pot.
     
  19. johnpharm01

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    That's one of my next steps. I did skilcrush boot camp last year. I wish ceti alpha 5 or anyone else reading this would comment if they themselves or a friend went through coding boot camp and what they thought.
     
  20. CetiAlphaFive

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    > says IT, CS, and not "dev", "progranmer", "engineer", or "data scientist"

    I think you might be the one who is underinformed, m8

    I don't care if you're emotionally invested in it.


    There's a reason the bootcamp marketing is aimed at baristas and not professionals
     
  21. johnpharm01

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    Do you think a computer science degree is a better launching point for someone wanting to be a programmer?
     
  22. Apotheker2015

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    I think that either one would require your average pharmacist to start from scratch. There are easier ways to make a transition into another field with minimal time investment. Now if you're thinking Epic Willow Pharmacist/Clinical Informaticist - 75% of it is being at the right place at the right time during an implementation.
     
  23. CetiAlphaFive

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    My posts are generating salt because people want an "easy" escape from pharmacy.

    What most people don't realize is that it's nothing like pharmacy school.
    It's like learning a language. It's not pass/fail.
    You can be mediocre and generate **** product. Companies will treat you accordingly, while promoting and paying the big bucks to the guys who have been doing it longer.

    Let's say you want to learn French.

    Yes, you can take crash courses.
    Yes, you can teach yourself with Rosetta Stone or online with duolingo for free.
    You're not going to be fluent until to immerse yourself for a while.


    This has literally- literally been a joke since 2005


    hulu.com/watch/824065
     
  24. johnpharm01

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    I would agree with you. If one thinks you going to go to coding boot camp one week and next week be hanging out with Bill Gates o Paul Allen next week you would be delusional. Its going to require effort but will that effort pay off?
     
  25. Apotheker2015

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    If you have an idea of a platform you want to develop, and you go into one of those boot camps with that in the back of your head, I can see that being very useful.
    If you're not in need of a career change right this second, then this would be the time to maybe dive into coding/programming. Start anywhere.
     
  26. Momus

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    Try searching at indeed.com

    Compare keyword :
    "pharmacist"
    Vs.
    "Software engineer"

    Let me know how many hits you get for each job postings. Please tell me coding isn't hot, right now.
     
  27. DIPEA

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    I firmly believe that if anyone who would even remotely consider an eventual switch (or escape) from traditional pharmacy (clinical or retail) to either a full-time programming-based job or a hybrid of programming and pharmacy job should start learning how to code NOW. Yes, it's not easy to learn, and yes, this might not be a suitable path for everyone, and yes, it can take a long time to perfect the craft. But if you are already having doubts about the future of pharmacy as a profession, and you don't think you are too old enough to learn or make the transition, why not just going all the way in and see what happens. If you dared to spend hundreds of thousands of $$$ on a profession that you think doesn't have a bright future, why being so frugal, either time or money, on acquiring an actual market-proven in-demand skill, which could lead to a much better career and life outcome?

    I just don't understand the mentality behind "oh, it's not as easy as someone think, so don't bother doing it" type of logic. Was getting into pharmacy school easy for you? Was getting a pharmacy job or getting licensed easy for you? Nope, I don't think anyone here dare to say that either was an absolutely easy walk-in-the-park for them. Yet, you still did them all. So why learning cs be something so different that you suddenly want it to be nice but super easy to do?
     
    #25 DIPEA, Apr 16, 2018 at 5:53 AM
    Last edited: Apr 16, 2018 at 6:16 AM
  28. gwarm01

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    Nowhere is safe in retail. The tide has been steadily rising for years and is finally starting to flood the streets. Publix was the first grocery chain that I saw switch to the 32-hour "full-time" philosophy, and it seems like this will be sweeping the nation. Reduced hours, reduced staffing via layoffs and attrition, and reduced starting pay will start to affect everyone.

    I would be trying my best to land a stable position in a financially healthy hospital system right now. The waters are still rising, but at least we managed to put some sandbags out front. You might get a few more good years before the people at the top really start to take advantage of the pharmacist oversupply. Never forget that those people, the one's making the decisions, do not understand or value your role. You're a warm body and an active license to them.
     
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  29. Dr. Galazkiewicz

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    When one becomes cognizant of what goes at the top of pyramid, it not so hard to understand why the working man is so abused. If these adrenochrome pedovores are harvesting kids for "breakthru" sadistic cravings, why not "sustained-release" corporate torturing of the masses between fixes? Really, wouldn't this explain some of the bizarre business policies promulgated from corporate? A litmus test would be would you implement a policy as a proprietor of a pharmacy? Does it make business sense. Much of the time I would scratch me head when these things came down.

    Before you dismiss this, check out who the major shareholders of your company. You'll probably find Blackrock, StateStreet, Bank of NY, Fidelity, etc.



     
  30. johnpharm01

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    The trend is undeniable. When does the bottom hit and what it looks like is what remains to be seen. $50 k a year pharmacist 10% unemployment?
     
  31. CetiAlphaFive

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    [​IMG]
     
  32. Dr. Galazkiewicz

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  33. CetiAlphaFive

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  34. Apotheker2015

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    This is so true... I am making my first and last attempt to switch to a hospital. If that does not happen, well, anything that guarantees me loan forgiveness. Nursing. Sure, you make less but your payment on Income Driven Repayment Plans is contingent upon your earnings. So big deal if I make less. As a nurse, I would consider a transition to California and for sure, milk differential pay.
     
  35. gwarm01

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    Don't be afraid to throw some hail marys while you're at it. You never know when someone will bite, and getting those first few years of real experience is what will open a lot of doors for you. You may not get those $90/hr Bay area jobs, but plenty of nice cities will be open to you even without a residency.
     
  36. Apotheker2015

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    Yup, I am learning that "Completion of pharmacy residency preferred" = we will train you. So I am getting on the MPJE wagon soon. And no Bay area for me, unless I become a nurse OR I am lucky enough to be hired as a janitor for the San Francisco Bart System.
     
  37. gwarm01

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    Not only does it mean they will train you, often you'll find positions that say 1 year of residency = 1 year of experience. It just depends on the system. I'm in peds, and I find we tend to be way more relaxed on the residency requirements since pediatrics is a PGY2 and, well, someone has to staff the pharmacy. Most places I've worked have been a health mix of non-residency, adult PGY1, and the occasional PGY2. It's how I was able to get specialty training like critical care and oncology without a residency.
     

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