MS4 from wake forest in HOT water!!!

[ortnakas]

Her post alone is indefensible, someone like her does not need to be around patients.

Again, not defending the tweet. Even if the tweet was truly a very bad joke, it’s not one I can mount a defense for. She’s guilty of having bad taste, bad judgement and a lack of objectivity. For that I’m sure repercussions are coming, and if nothing else she’ll have a real problem in the match (nobody’s going to want somebody infamous). Just saying she’s not guilty of literal assault.

That said… I’m also suspicious of Wake Forest’s statement. Med students get one try and if they miss it’s a paper trail? I question how they learn anything and how much paper must accumulate.

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[Dr. Anonymouss]

Again, not defending the tweet. Even if the tweet was truly a very bad joke, it’s not one I can mount a defense for. She’s guilty of having bad taste, bad judgement and a lack of objectivity. For that I’m sure repercussions are coming, and if nothing else she’ll have a real problem in the match (nobody’s going to want somebody infamous). Just saying she’s not guilty of literal assault.

That said… I’m also suspicious of Wake Forest’s statement. Med students get one try and if they miss it’s a paper trail? I question how they learn anything and how much paper must accumulate.

Not to mention that this practice seems overwhelmingly cumbersome for the attending's and staff. I can understand requesting help if you can't find a vein or if a vein is giving you trouble, but if you have to go get a "medical professionals" help every time you miss your first attempt then I can only imagine how disorganized and stressful some of these rotations must be. Even some of the best seasoned nurses still miss veins and here we are talking about 3rd year students who are brand new to this.

 

[Lawpy]

This segment on Tucker Carlson Tonight aired a few hours ago. Since the segment, an individual from the Winston-Salem area has come forward to suggest he was the patient involved in this blood draw. Is there any way to run this by Wake Forest for verification without violating HIPAA? Wake Forest has confirmed they identified the victim.
Segment:

Yeah i think her career is done. She’s too much of a liability even if she does graduate. I can’t imagine any program wanting to take a risk on her

 

[Lawpy]

That said… I’m also suspicious of Wake Forest’s statement. Med students get one try and if they miss it’s a paper trail? I question how they learn anything and how much paper must accumulate.

They likely said that to protect themselves because of the massive backlash that student caused. But that said, given that the student’s thoughtless tweet effectively shamed the school so blatantly, I won’t be surprised if the school actually becomes more restrictive in clinical years and makes students’ lives a lot more tightly regulated.

 

[gtb]

She said the patient had to be stuck a second time. It may or may not have been purposeful. Either way, this is dumb, nobody cares outside of this tiny little bubble, and once this thread burns out we shall all move on like it never even happened.

For this medical student, with her entire future ahead of her, this single tweet will plague her entire career. Colleagues will always be cautious in communicating with her, many of her patients will be suspicious, and if she's ever accused of unprofessionalism this comment will almost certainly resurface. For her, this thread will never burn out.

 

[Lawpy]

For this medical student, with her entire future ahead of her, this single tweet will plague her entire career. Colleagues will always be cautious in communicating with her, many of her patients will be suspicious, and if she's ever accused of unprofessionalism this comment will almost certainly resurface. For her, this thread will never burn out.

She needs to be kicked out and never be allowed to practice medicine.

 

[NontradICUdoc]

the main problem is that this new generation has no filter. You can think what you want, but once you put it out there it will never go away and your whole credibility is shot. Maybe, one day, in some distant future this will be relegated to the trash heap of history (hopefully with all of social media), but for now I am not sure she will pass even the initial application review (unless she applies exclusively to Chicago, NYC, or California where they will greet her with open arms).

 

[SpoiledMilk]

Not to sidetrack from the main issue of this thread, but having a Twitter account has utility. When one can't get resolution from a company after calling its 1-800 number, I have found that reaching out via Twitter has been more fruitful. For ex. When I sent in my old phone for a new one during a promotion, the company did not credit me the cost of the new phone per the promotion. After calling for 5 straight months and getting the run around, I finally reached out via Twitter and within a day, I was credited the full price of the new phone.

 

[voxveritatisetlucis]

Not to sidetrack from the main issue of this thread, but having a Twitter account has utility. When one can't get resolution from a company after calling its 1-800 number, I have found that reaching out via Twitter has been more fruitful. For ex. When I sent in my old phone for a new one during a promotion, the company did not credit me the cost of the new phone per the promotion. After calling for 5 straight months and getting the run around, I finally reached out via Twitter and within a day, I was credited the full price of the new phone.

True but can’t this all be done with an anonymous account

 

[SpoiledMilk]

Yup. If used properly, having a social media presence on Twitter and/or FB can be helpful tools.

 

[operaman]

the main problem is that this new generation has no filter. You can think what you want, but once you put it out there it will never go away and your whole credibility is shot. Maybe, one day, in some distant future this will be relegated to the trash heap of history (hopefully with all of social media), but for now I am not sure she will pass even the initial application review (unless she applies exclusively to Chicago, NYC, or California where they will greet her with open arms).

I’m not so sure even the most liberal programs would want the risk. I think it’s important to remember that this was not a trans woman who had her pronouns mocked, but rather an obviously cis woman who clearly loves to signal her own virtue. This was not someone being transphobic and misgendering her intentionally, but probably a regular person making light of cis people displaying their pronouns when it’s obvious what they are. If I had a he/him on my badge I would get jokes about it all the time given my height and the depth of my voice.


Setting aside whether she did it intentionally, the tweet alone shows she dehumanizes those who disagree with her. It’s the reductio ad absurdum of wokeism where compassion and empathy are now predicated on a certain intersectional value. I think even those programs on the far left will avoid her because they don’t want to see themselves as having sunk so low.

 

[voxveritatisetlucis]

Yup. If used properly, having a social media presence on Twitter and/or FB can be helpful tools.

What about LinkedIn? Is that a medical thing too or just business?

 

[SpoiledMilk]

Yes LinkedIn is used in medicine. My school sent out a link advocating we create an account. Doximity also.

 

[deleted1100659]

I’m not so sure even the most liberal programs would want the risk. I think it’s important to remember that this was not a trans woman who had her pronouns mocked, but rather an obviously cis woman who clearly loves to signal her own virtue.

this x1million.

The amount of wokeness is too much sometimes, this is an example that she couldn't understand how someone who was raised in an entirely different era than her, may have different views and not completely understand her own, so her response to inflict retribution upon him.

In her career she will experience many more with opposing or different views, the fact that she does not seem to possess cognitive flexibility implies her decision making skills in a high pressure setting may not be the best.

She has a "dichotomous mindset" of "you're either on the side of woke and you're a wokeness warrior, or you're an enemy". Not a good way to perceive things.

 

[GoSpursGo]

What about LinkedIn? Is that a medical thing too or just business?

Medical too. I definitely network there

 

[FootballAndSkiing]

Yup. If used properly, having a social media presence on Twitter and/or FB can be helpful tools.

What's crazy is here twitter handle had "2023" in it, her graduation year. It was not her personal account. It was her med school account, probably made to network with medtwitter, and probably to help her career or public image as a future doctor.

 

[Angus Avagadro]

NRMP is just a matching service; it's up to Wake and residencies.

Now calm down, because you have to approach this as a medical professional dealing with a patient's report of some symptoms. You have no access to the patient, lab data or her own clinician. Just the tweet

We have two possibilities:

1) The student indeed deliberately hurt the patient in revenge for the anti-trans comment, and bragged about it
2) The student actually missed the vein by accident, but then exulted over having to do a repeat drawn, and bragged about it
3) The student actually missed the vein by accident, but did so because she over-reacted or was flustered by the patient's comment, and this was more like a karma event, rather than actual malice.


Note that the student wrote "I missed his vein and he had to get stuck twice." [icon]

So if it's 1, I'd vote for a dismissal if it were one of my students

If 2) Probably vote for a suspension

If 3) more training on how to deal with people are not like you, and building a thicker skin.

The twitter post is here. I'm left wondering why that's all there is.....I'd like to see the entire thread she posted in, not the repost.

I'd like to hear what classmates had to say after the fact. What she may have confided in them.We won't because that's probably privileged. I believe that information will weigh heavily on the outcome.

 

[Angus Avagadro]

Again, not defending the tweet. Even if the tweet was truly a very bad joke, it’s not one I can mount a defense for. She’s guilty of having bad taste, bad judgement and a lack of objectivity. For that I’m sure repercussions are coming, and if nothing else she’ll have a real problem in the match (nobody’s going to want somebody infamous). Just saying she’s not guilty of literal assault.

That said… I’m also suspicious of Wake Forest’s statement. Med students get one try and if they miss it’s a paper trail? I question how they learn anything and how much paper must accumulate.

I wonder how their Professionalism policy is stated? Regardless of her bad choice of what she posted on Twitter, she has brought a very bright negative spotlight directly to bear on Wake. This also might cause her to be dismissed on professionalism grounds.

 

[DD214]

If she is released from WF, she can always find work here - created by a Disney animator

 

[FootballAndSkiing]

If she is released from WF, she can always find work here - created by a Disney animator

Woke Forest

 

[Lawpy]

this x1million.

The amount of wokeness is too much sometimes, this is an example that she couldn't understand how someone who was raised in an entirely different era than her, may have different views and not completely understand her own, so her response to inflict retribution upon him.

In her career she will experience many more with opposing or different views, the fact that she does not seem to possess cognitive flexibility implies her decision making skills in a high pressure setting may not be the best.

She has a "dichotomous mindset" of "you're either on the side of woke and you're a wokeness warrior, or you're an enemy". Not a good way to perceive things.

It’s people like her that gives social justice a bad name. She needs to be kicked out and never be allowed to practice medicine

 

[deleted1100659]

I'd like to hear what classmates had to say after the fact. What she may have confided in them.We won't because that's probably privileged. I believe that information will weigh heavily on the outcome.

given her tweet will assume that she probably was not loved and admired.

But, there is hope. I will be her friend. Why? She sounds like she would be entertaining to listen to. Like those people with 1,000 facebook friends who post large rants before/after elections

 

[Candidate2017]

I think it’s important to remember that this was not a trans woman who had her pronouns mocked, but rather an obviously cis woman who clearly loves to signal her own virtue. This was not someone being transphobic and misgendering her intentionally, but probably a regular person making light of cis people

Even if the patient mocked her, used slurs, and bragged about being an Auschwitz guard, she does not have the right to harm the patient. Her white coat may be short, but that plain white coat stands for something more important than whatever flavor pin she has on.

If I were to jab every patient that said something ill-advised, I'd have to hire a small army of phlebotomists. Physicians should not accept being demeaned, but patients should be handled professionally. The patient's comments come from a place of ignorance, but her actions ironically come from a place of intolerance.

 

[Ms Procrastinator]

Yikes! I can see this happening a lot more given that a lot of people feel they have to post about everything on social media. This incident makes Wake Forest look bad and will make a lot of other activists in medicine look bad. This promotes distrust in patients and is gonna make patients wonder if they have to get another provider if they don't agree with certain pins. The wording of her tweet probably saves her since she didn't admit that she did it intentionally. She can always argue that it was an accident. Given the emoji she used... I don't think she was too upset she missed.

 

[voxveritatisetlucis]

Yikes! I can see this happening a lot more given that a lot of people feel they have to post about everything on social media. This incident makes Wake Forest look bad and will make a lot of other activists in medicine look bad. This promotes distrust in patients and is gonna make patients wonder if they have to get another provider if they don't agree with certain pins. The wording of her tweet probably saves her since she didn't admit that she did it intentionally. She can always argue that it was an accident. Given the emoji she used... I don't think she was too upset she missed.

I didn’t know what the handkerchief/sneezing enoji meant before this but apparently it’s a sarcastic “whoops.” This could leave some to believe that it was intentional even if it wasn’t.

 

[Redpancreas]

True but can’t this all be done with an anonymous account

Better to do it with a real account. The whole purpose is to put external/societal pressure on company. The company isn’t going to take a complaint from an anonymous poster as seriously as a politely phrased message from a real person.

 

[GoSpursGo]

I think more important than the response from the school (which is I think is in a no win situation), hopefully there is a lesson for all of us—if you’re going to declare your pronouns (or do some other sort of inclusive gesture that a certain portion of the population would consider “woke”), you absolutely have to be prepared with a response for what you will do if you are faced with this kind of response from a patient. You should at least think about it in advance, so that in the heat of the moment you don’t make a potentially career ending blunder like this student did.

 

[DarkBluMage]

Wake Forest deans let their internal emails get out:

Someone definitely got a stern conversation after that 😂🥴

 

[deleted771945]

"stabbing" lol give me a break fox news. they're such a joke.

 

[FootballAndSkiing]

"stabbing" lol give me a break fox news. they're such a joke.

I agree its hyperbole, and misleading. Not to get into another political conversation, but on the flip-side, there are zero articles about this from MSNBC and CNN. I thinks thats wrong too. They should be covering this. Just another example of the media being terrible.

 

[Redpancreas]

Honestly maybe it’s my dislike for cancel culture in general but I’m having a change in heart now that I’ve seen the news jumping all over this story. Could this girl be expelled? Yes. Should she? I would argue there’s no precedent as the Jewish-hatred resident had posts over several years/lied about her termination/etc. Did this really need to make national news and is this girl a threat to the well-being of patients? I don’t truly know the answer to that and am not the one qualified to make that call, but with what we have seen, I do not genuinely think this is a case of someone who has an intrinsic hatred for individuals who hold Anti-Trans viewpoints, but maybe someone who resents their opinions,
made callous comments, and could use a lesson in empathy as a medical provider. I think the best course of action is a suspension for some time with some lessons on how to handle situations when others disagree with your core viewpoints. It will affect her match outcome. She should be allowed the chance to rebound from this. I think unfortunately some people see a hypocrisy/unilateral bias in cancel culture and to be honest, I do think it is employed with a favorable lean towards those on the left. Fox News virtually coined the term cancel culture as a response and now they want to make sure it’s applied both ways (against someone advocating for trans rights who said something out of line). An eye for an eye…

Also for those who discuss the precedent with the girl of Palestinian descent posting that she would give Jewish people the wrong medications, keep in mind she had been posting as an alias for several years and literally said “I will give Jews the wrong medications”.

 

[DarkBluMage]

Honestly maybe it’s my dislike for cancel culture in general but I’m having a change in heart now that I’ve seen the news jumping all over this story. Could this girl be expelled? Yes. Should she? I would argue there’s no precedent as the Jewish-hatred resident had posts over several years/lied about her termination/etc. Did this really need to make national news and is this girl a threat to the well-being of patients? I don’t truly know the answer to that and am not the one qualified to make that call, but with what we have seen, I do not genuinely think this is a case of someone who has an intrinsic hatred for individuals who hold Anti-Trans viewpoints, but maybe someone who resents their opinions,
made callous comments, and could use a lesson in empathy as a medical provider. I think the best course of action is a suspension for some time with some lessons on how to handle situations when others disagree with your core viewpoints. It will affect her match outcome. She should be allowed the chance to rebound from this. I think unfortunately some people perceive a hypocrisy/unilateral bias in cancel culture. Fox News cirtuelly coined the term cancel culture and now they want to make sure it’s applied both ways (against someone advocating for trans rights). An eye for an eye…

Also for those who discuss the precedent with the girl of Palestinian descent posting that she would give Jewish people the wrong medications, keep in mind she had been posting as an alias for several years.

Gota love the mental gymnastics to make excuses for the abhorrent thought process of finding glee in a patient being harmed. Multiple sticks from a needle HURTS, I would know. No physician should find joy in a painful outcome for a patient in their care because they made a comment that was personally offensive to them. I don’t care what’s going on, that’s incredibly soft on her part and honestly shameful that she felt justified in even speaking on it as if there was nothing wrong. I’ll be happy with her expulsion from the profession. No one needs a physician like that. I definitely wouldn’t want anyone I know being treated by her on the off hand they might say something that offends her delicate sensibilities.

 

[Redpancreas]

Gota love the mental gymnastics to make excuses for the abhorrent thought process of finding glee in a patient being harmed. Multiple sticks from a needle HURT, I would know. No physician should find joy in a painful outcome for a patient in their care because they made a comment that was personally offensive to them. I don’t care what’s going on, that’s incredibly soft on her part and honestly shameful that she felt justified in even speaking on it as if there was nothing wrong. I’ll be happy with her expulsion from the profession. No one needs a physician like that.

A patient was harmed. It’s not funny or to be taken lightly, the event was separate from the post. This girl made a Twitter post with the best potential interpretation being that she felt some form of “karma” was delivered in retrospect. It was a one-time post made in response to someone who clearly said something hurtful to her. I’m fairly certain you’ve said something or witnessed someone you care about who’s personally said something callous about a patient (possibly not even in response to a rude comment) that if published online could have generated the same reaction. That’s different from having an inherent hatred towards a group of people. I see her post as an act of weakness, not hatred. Ultimately I’m not the one who will decide what happens. Maybe people will err on your take. I don’t know.

 

[FootballAndSkiing]

I’ll be happy with her expulsion from the profession.

Part of me feel like they should still let her get the degree if she still wants it. Maybe she could do something non clinical. 3 years of med school debt would be brutal to pay off with no degree.

 

[DarkBluMage]

A patient was harmed. It’s not funny or to be taken lightly, but from what seems evident that event happened independently of what happened afterwards. This girl made a Twitter post with the best potential interpretation being that she felt some form of “karma” was delivered in retrospect. It was a one-time post made in response to someone who clearly said something hurtful to her. I’m fairly certain you’ve said something or witnessed someone you care about who’s personally say something callous that if published online could have generated the same reaction. That’s different from having an inherent hatred towards a group of people. I see her post as an act of weakness, not hatred. Ultimately I’m not the one who will decide what happens. Maybe people will err on your take. I don’t know.

It wasn’t made in response, she didn’t post it right after the encounter. She made it as a brag towards another physicians post on Twitter regarding trans issues. She believed there was absolutely nothing wrong with that which is why she felt so comfortable doing it and that speaks volumes. I’m not feeling the least bit sorry that she’s getting the attention she so clearly was searching for. It just ended up putting her in a bad light rather than her being applauded like she thought she would be. It takes a certain level of disdain to be happy about harm towards someone in your care or feel you’re so morally superior that the “universe” is doling out karma just for someone making a comment that you disagree with. We can agree to disagree because I’m not throwing a pity party for her just because she’s getting flamed and attention for something she chose to do.

 

[FootballAndSkiing]

Part of me feel like they should still let her get the degree if she still wants it. Maybe she could do something non clinical. 3 years of med school debt would be brutal to pay off with no degree.

But now im realizing that means she has to complete her fourth year rotations so idk. If they let her do that, might as well let her apply to residency see if anyone takes her

 

[DarkBluMage]

But now im realizing that means she has to complete her fourth year rotations so idk. If they let her do that, might as well let her apply to residency see if anyone takes her

Yea I’m not about it. It’s up to wake forest though. Something tells me she won’t be expelled.

 

[Goro]

I think more important than the response from the school (which is I think is in a no win situation), hopefully there is a lesson for all of us—if you’re going to declare your pronouns (or do some other sort of inclusive gesture that a certain portion of the population would consider “woke”), you absolutely have to be prepared with a response for what you will do if you are faced with this kind of response from a patient. You should at least think about it in advance, so that in the heat of the moment you don’t make a potentially career ending blunder like this student did.

Indeed. It's very likely that you may encounter a patient with a swastika or KKK tattoo, and yet you must still be a professional, no matter how much one would prefer to throttle the patient instead.

 

[FootballAndSkiing]

you absolutely have to be prepared with a response for what you will do if you are faced with this kind of response from a patient. You should at least think about it in advance, so that in the heat of the moment you don’t make a potentially career ending blunder like this student did.

Ironically the correct response was in the tweets she was responding to

 

[DarkHorizon]

Medtwitter is such cringe, bunch of self-righteous narcissists for the most part. This woman is queen of cringe with that tweet. Smh. When will they learn?

 

[ACSurgeon]

Medtwitter is such cringe, bunch of self-righteous narcissists for the most part. This woman is queen of cringe with that tweet. Smh. When will they learn?

Such cringe.

When did the English language morph to this?

 

[anesussy]

Such cringe.

When did the English language morph to this?

When everyone saw how cringey you were

 

[futureapppsy2]

This tweet is dumb, but there are SDN posters who regularly state how they wish their patients with substance use disorders would just die, so the outrage seems a bit much, imo. Medtwitter in general is the most self-aggrandizing community I’ve ever seen.

 

[GoSpursGo]

Honestly maybe it’s my dislike for cancel culture in general but I’m having a change in heart now that I’ve seen the news jumping all over this story. Could this girl be expelled? Yes. Should she? I would argue there’s no precedent as the Jewish-hatred resident had posts over several years/lied about her termination/etc. Did this really need to make national news and is this girl a threat to the well-being of patients? I don’t truly know the answer to that and am not the one qualified to make that call, but with what we have seen, I do not genuinely think this is a case of someone who has an intrinsic hatred for individuals who hold Anti-Trans viewpoints, but maybe someone who resents their opinions,
made callous comments, and could use a lesson in empathy as a medical provider. I think the best course of action is a suspension for some time with some lessons on how to handle situations when others disagree with your core viewpoints. It will affect her match outcome. She should be allowed the chance to rebound from this. I think unfortunately some people see a hypocrisy/unilateral bias in cancel culture and to be honest, I do think it is employed with a favorable lean towards those on the left. Fox News virtually coined the term cancel culture as a response and now they want to make sure it’s applied both ways (against someone advocating for trans rights who said something out of line). An eye for an eye…

Also for those who discuss the precedent with the girl of Palestinian descent posting that she would give Jewish people the wrong medications, keep in mind she had been posting as an alias for several years and literally said “I will give Jews the wrong medications”.

Yeah I'm really tempted to have this take, because it is really stupid that any news outlet is getting multiple days of content out of a stupid tweet with negligible harm to a patient. This does not need to be covered by the national media, but--with the caveat that I am specifically commenting on the source of the story linked in the OP, and discussing the source has to be fair game when discussing a story, and I'm not saying anything positive or negative about their competitors--this is Fox's schtick, where they find a single anecdote and they blow it up into proving their worldview that the woke radical left is full of callous jerks who are out to get you.

But at the end of the day, that is sort of the point. This is exactly the kind of thing that can happen to you when you let your personal views impact the care you provide patients, and then compound that mistake by taking to Twitter and sending such an ill-advised tweet. Once it's out there in the world of social media, it can spiral exactly like this and there is nothing you can do to take it back. Physicians are, and should be, held to a higher standard. So while it will truly be a shame if her career is ruined over a couple of really, really poor decisions, it would also ultimately be no one's fault but her own.

 

[voxveritatisetlucis]

All actions need to be guided by deontological ethics in that an action must be justified regardless of circumstances or context. If the world adopts a teleological moral system, then we would have anarchy

 

[sloop]

Yeah I'm really tempted to have this take, because it is really stupid that any news outlet is getting multiple days of content out of a stupid tweet with negligible harm to a patient. This does not need to be covered by the national media, but--with the caveat that I am specifically commenting on the source of the story linked in the OP, and discussing the source has to be fair game when discussing a story, and I'm not saying anything positive or negative about their competitors--this is Fox's schtick, where they find a single anecdote and they blow it up into proving their worldview that the woke radical left is full of callous jerks who are out to get you.

But at the end of the day, that is sort of the point. This is exactly the kind of thing that can happen to you when you let your personal views impact the care you provide patients, and then compound that mistake by taking to Twitter and sending such an ill-advised tweet. Once it's out there in the world of social media, it can spiral exactly like this and there is nothing you can do to take it back. Physicians are, and should be, held to a higher standard. So while it will truly be a shame if her career is ruined over a couple of really, really poor decisions, it would also ultimately be no one's fault but her own.

Yeah, ultimately there is a difference between “cancel culture” and accountability for a privileged profession.

I have political views that many people in my profession don’t share, and I don’t think I should face negative professional ramifications for voicing those beliefs in my personal life. For example, I am a psychiatrist who leans heavily in favor of gun rights. I’m not bringing this up to start a political discussion, but merely to say that many of my colleagues vehemently disagree with me. I think it would be wrong if someone was allowed to essentially kick me out of the profession of subject me to some sort of reprimand based on my personal politics.

But it’s different when you’re inappropriately bringing it into your professional life. Like, if I stopped asking my suicidal patients about access to guns or started encouraging patients to own guns, that would be inappropriate and worthy of some sort of reprimand in certain circumstances. That is not the same thing as cancel culture. That is professional accountability.

Same thing here. I don’t think anybody is trying to “cancel” her because of her beliefs. I don’t really care what she thinks about pronouns or whatever. I don’t even really care if she personally believed that the patient was some sort of bigoted transphobe. I don’t really care what she thinks. I care about how she treats her patients and how well she is able to separate her politics from her treatment of patients on an individual level. To me, implying that harm (however small) coming to a patient was in some way deserved or karmic indicates that someone is unable to separate their personal politics from their practice to such a degree that it conflicts with ethical practice of medicine.

It is one thing to vaguely believe that “what goes around comes around” or that transphobic people should ultimately reap what they sow. I don’t necessarily share that belief (ultimately because I think it is vengeful and don’t believe the proliferation of suffering is a good thing, but that’s a different issue). Still, I don’t really care if she personally has that sort of orientation. What is a problem is that she seems to be applying that orientation with specificity when dealing with patients. I don’t think you can act ethically towards patients when you’re sort of passively wishing harm on some of them based on what they have said to you.

 

[Lawpy]

This tweet is dumb, but there are SDN posters who regularly state how they wish their patients with substance use disorders would just die, so the outrage seems a bit much, imo. Medtwitter in general is the most self-aggrandizing community I’ve ever seen.

Wait what

Agreed SDN can be a bit of a dumpster fire that at times isn’t any better than Twitter but the bold still surprised me

 

[Lawpy]

Yeah, ultimately there is a difference between “cancel culture” and accountability for a privileged profession.

I have political views that many people in my profession don’t share, and I don’t think I should face negative professional ramifications for voicing those beliefs in my personal life. For example, I am a psychiatrist who leans heavily in favor of gun rights. I’m not bringing this up to start a political discussion, but merely to say that many of my colleagues vehemently disagree with me. I think it would be wrong if someone was allowed to essentially kick me out of the profession of subject me to some sort of reprimand based on my personal politics.

But it’s different when you’re inappropriately bringing it into your professional life. Like, if I stopped asking my suicidal patients about access to guns or started encouraging patients to own guns, that would be inappropriate and worthy of some sort of reprimand in certain circumstances. That is not the same thing as cancel culture. That is professional accountability.

Same thing here. I don’t think anybody is trying to “cancel” her because of her beliefs. I don’t really care what she thinks about pronouns or whatever. I don’t even really care if she personally believed that the patient was some sort of bigoted transphobe. I don’t really care what she thinks. I care about how she treats her patients and how well she is able to separate her politics from her treatment of patients on an individual level. To me, implying that harm (however small) coming to a patient was in some way deserved or karmic indicates that someone is unable to separate their personal politics from their practice to such a degree that it conflicts with ethical practice of medicine.

It is one thing to vaguely believe that “what goes around comes around” or that transphobic people should ultimately reap what they sow. I don’t necessarily share that belief (ultimately because I think it is vengeful and don’t believe the proliferation of suffering is a good thing, but that’s a different issue). Still, I don’t really care if she personally has that sort of orientation. What is a problem is that she seems to be applying that orientation with specificity when dealing with patients. I don’t think you can act ethically towards patients when you’re sort of passively wishing harm on some of them based on what they have said to you.

Yeah agreed. She should be kicked out for violating basic ethics and professionalism. It’s clear she can’t treat people fairly and to the best of her ability if they have views that she doesn’t agree

 

[Browns99]

Yeah I'm really tempted to have this take, because it is really stupid that any news outlet is getting multiple days of content out of a stupid tweet with negligible harm to a patient. This does not need to be covered by the national media, but--with the caveat that I am specifically commenting on the source of the story linked in the OP, and discussing the source has to be fair game when discussing a story, and I'm not saying anything positive or negative about their competitors--this is Fox's schtick, where they find a single anecdote and they blow it up into proving their worldview that the woke radical left is full of callous jerks who are out to get you.

But at the end of the day, that is sort of the point. This is exactly the kind of thing that can happen to you when you let your personal views impact the care you provide patients, and then compound that mistake by taking to Twitter and sending such an ill-advised tweet. Once it's out there in the world of social media, it can spiral exactly like this and there is nothing you can do to take it back. Physicians are, and should be, held to a higher standard. So while it will truly be a shame if her career is ruined over a couple of really, really poor decisions, it would also ultimately be no one's fault but her own.

Any different than their "competitors" painting everyone on the right as racists, is that their "worldview", I suppose it is? Everyone can read the tweet and judge accordingly. Dismiss the Fox News article and make your own opinion. Regardless of how you perceived the media outlet as taking a single "anecdote" and blowing it up, isn't this about what the student tweeted?

Unfortunately, I find people can not stick to the facts, rather, as in your post, you believe that it is fair game to discuss the "source', really, I thought the source was her tweet. I guess Wake Forest thought the same when she was placed on leave?

 

[SpoiledMilk]

Curious. Genuine question.

If she returns from LOA and remains in good standing and graduates, can't she consider matching into Pathology where there is no chance of her ever sticking a live patient again?