MSUCOM vs. Any other in-state MD (not UM)

Get Your Med School Admissions Questions Answered!
This forum made possible through the generous support of SDN members, donors, and sponsors. Thank you.
Status
Not open for further replies.
femmegoblue

femmegoblue

Full Member
7+ Year Member
Joined
Jun 16, 2014
Messages
2,049
Reaction score
2,312
Hey all,

This is all completely hypothetical at this point, but with my MSUCOM deposit deadline fast approaching (Dec. 3), I just wanted to get some input. The only reason I even pose this scenario is because $1,000 is a lot of money to lose if I do not attend MSUCOM (as we all know). If I pay the money, I would really like to just go there and have it all be done with.

Realistically, I believe I have a shot an getting an II at CMED (Central) and Wayne State (In their SMP-type program with 3.9). I am on hold for an II at MSUCHM and WMed so let's just count them out. What would be the realistic advantages of going to CMED over MSUCOM? Central has yet to graduate a class, and MSUCOM has been around forever, incredibly well established, and controls everything DO in the state of Michigan. I am from here and want to practice here in Ob/Gyn.

I know all the SDN advice points to "take the MD acceptance no matter what", but...it's MSUCOM. Does this still apply? Should I choose every in-state MD over MSUCOM, even CMED?

Thanks for any and all insight, fam.
Members don't see this ad.
 
Unfortunately, the saying does still apply. MSUCOM is absolutely phenomenal but if you got into CMED then you better go there and get your MD. Same goes for the rest of the Michigan schools.

OBGYN is a surgical speciality and if you want to pursue a fellowship then a MD would open up more doors. Even for residency in MI, having the MD would open up more options by allowing you to be ranked higher as a MD student.
 
femmegoblue said:
Hey all,

This is all completely hypothetical at this point, but with my MSUCOM deposit deadline fast approaching (Dec. 3), I just wanted to get some input. The only reason I even pose this scenario is because $1,000 is a lot of money to lose if I do not attend MSUCOM (as we all know). If I pay the money, I would really like to just go there and have it all be done with.

Realistically, I believe I have a shot an getting an II at CMED (Central) and Wayne State (In their SMP-type program with 3.9). I am on hold for an II at MSUCHM and WMed so let's just count them out. What would be the realistic advantages of going to CMED over MSUCOM? Central has yet to graduate a class, and MSUCOM has been around forever, incredibly well established, and controls everything DO in the state of Michigan. I am from here and want to practice here in Ob/Gyn.

I know all the SDN advice points to "take the MD acceptance no matter what", but...it's MSUCOM. Does this still apply? Should I choose every in-state MD over MSUCOM, even CMED?

Thanks for any and all insight, fam.
Click to expand...
I would say Cmed < msucom because it is brand new and hasn't proved anything to anyone yet. Wayne > Msucom though. I've had several friends that were accepted into Msucom, put their deposit down and ready to move when they got their Wayne acceptance and moved. Wayne is a classic institution that has been around forever with an MD degree.

The other thing is I know Michigan has a crazy amount of EM residency programs but I am not show about OB/GYN so I would say to check where the students from each school match (minus Cmed since no graduating class yet lol)
 
Members don't see this ad :)
SlugMD said:
Unfortunately, the saying does still apply. MSUCOM is absolutely phenomenal but if you got into CMED then you better go there and get your MD. Same goes for the rest of the Michigan schools.

OBGYN is a surgical speciality and if you want to pursue a fellowship then a MD would open up more doors. Even for residency in MI, having the MD would open up more options by allowing you to be ranked higher as a MD student.
Click to expand...
Darn, that's not what I wanted to hear but I appreciate the honest advice. Better start working overtime!
 
I'm in same similar situation. I think we just need to fork it over the deposit. Less worry/ sleep better.
 
It's weird because MSUCOM has a great reputation, but people will say MD > DO for any scenario. I would honestly try to email some faculty in MSU's clinical education department and explain to them your goals and if MSUCOM can help you with them. SDN is only one source of information you should consider.

The fact remains MSU is by far one of the most prominent academic centers in the country. I think I would also be in a bind if I were in your position. My only advice is to also ask outside of SDN =).
 
I think MSUCOM is the exception to the rule no doubt. That is unless you wish to pursue residency outside the state of MI.

IMO Wayne>MSUCOM>CMU

If you wish to pursue a fellowship having the MD may give you a leg up, but i think at least within michigan MSUCOM has made a name for itself.

However if you do get an acceptance from Wayne, even after you put a deposit at MSUCOM down. Id highly suggest you take it.


Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile
 
Scrubs101 said:
I think MSUCOM is the exception to the rule no doubt. That is unless you wish to pursue residency outside the state of MI.

IMO Wayne>MSUCOM>CMU

If you wish to pursue a fellowship having the MD may give you a leg up, but i think at least within michigan MSUCOM has made a name for itself.

However if you do get an acceptance from Wayne, even after you put a deposit at MSUCOM down. Id highly suggest you take it.


Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile
Click to expand...
I do my master's at Wayne med and although I hate everything about the administrative side of the school, I think you might be right.
 
I'd go to the MD school.

You shouldn't have much trouble matching Ob/gyn coming from MSU. However, as someone else mentioned, DOs are not well represented in ob/gyn acgme fellowships. In 2016, only 4 of the approximately 200 ob/gyn fellowship spots went to DOs. I don't know why, and I don't know if ob/gyn is one of those specialities that few people do fellowships after residency. Just something to keep in mind.
 
cliquesh said:
I'd go to the MD school.

You shouldn't have much trouble matching Ob/gyn coming from MSU. However, as someone else mentioned, DOs are not well represented in ob/gyn acgme fellowships. In 2016, only 4 of the approximately 200 ob/gyn fellowship spots went to DOs. I don't know why, and I don't know if ob/gyn is one of those specialities that few people do fellowships after residency. Just something to keep in mind.
Click to expand...
I don't think a lot of people do fellowships after, but yeah it's definitely something to consider. Thank you!
 
Unfortunately the differences in the match are very real. Take the MD no matter where it is from, it really will make a huge difference come match time. Put it this way, if you compare DO and MD charting outcomes a below average MD will still have a good chance at matching things like OB/GYN and GS. A DO will not. The reality is, and people will get all stirred up over this, but a CNU graduate will probably fare much better in the match than a PCOM or MSU grad. The two letters actually do matter (in matching, not practice)
 
AnatomyGrey12 said:
Unfortunately the differences in the match are very real. Take the MD no matter where it is from, it really will make a huge difference come match time. Put it this way, if you compare DO and MD charting outcomes a below average MD will still have a good chance at matching things like OB/GYN and GS. A DO will not. The reality is, and people will get all stirred up over this, but a CNU graduate will probably fare much better in the match than a PCOM or MSU grad. The two letters actually do matter (in matching, not practice)
Click to expand...

Even if the residency is in MI? I would think the decades of experience of MSUCOM would give someone an upperhand in terms of letters vs. a completely new school inside of Michigan.
 
Robotfishbrain said:
Even if the residency is in MI? I would think the decades of experience of MSUCOM would give someone an upperhand in terms of letters vs. a completely new school inside of Michigan.
Click to expand...

If you are looking for just any program then maybe not, but for traditional MD programs yes it will matter. A DO from MSUCOM would have to have a better application than the MD applicant. Look at the charting outcomes of both pools, the difference is stark
 
Members don't see this ad :)
$1000 may seem like a lot (it is) but in the grand scheme of things, it's not even a drop in the bucket. Literally.

I would pay the deposit and HAVE ALL OPTIONS OPEN. This is literally your career for the rest of your life. $1000 to save a seat isn't even a question.

If you do have the opportunity to decide on your choices later on, then that's a whole other topic.
 
Bird in the hand is worth......?

Think of the $1K as insurance. I KNOW it's no small chunk of change.

YOU may think that you have a good chance to get into CMED but the Adcom at CMED may have other ideas. Then where will you be?

femmegoblue said:
Hey all,

This is all completely hypothetical at this point, but with my MSUCOM deposit deadline fast approaching (Dec. 3), I just wanted to get some input. The only reason I even pose this scenario is because $1,000 is a lot of money to lose if I do not attend MSUCOM (as we all know). If I pay the money, I would really like to just go there and have it all be done with.

Realistically, I believe I have a shot an getting an II at CMED (Central) and Wayne State (In their SMP-type program with 3.9). I am on hold for an II at MSUCHM and WMed so let's just count them out. What would be the realistic advantages of going to CMED over MSUCOM? Central has yet to graduate a class, and MSUCOM has been around forever, incredibly well established, and controls everything DO in the state of Michigan. I am from here and want to practice here in Ob/Gyn.

I know all the SDN advice points to "take the MD acceptance no matter what", but...it's MSUCOM. Does this still apply? Should I choose every in-state MD over MSUCOM, even CMED?

Thanks for any and all insight, fam.
Click to expand...
 
Goro said:
Bird in the hand is worth......?

Think of the $1K as insurance. I KNOW it's no small chunk of change.

YOU may think that you have a good chance to get into CMED but the Adcom at CMED may have other ideas. Then where will you be?
Click to expand...
Oh no, I'm not considering NOT paying. I just really want to figure out where I would go OVER msucom, and I was hoping the answer wasn't "any MD school, no matter how mediocre". What do you think?
 
Ahh, my apologies.

Newer schools have more bugs to work out in the delivery of their curriculum, and their grads are an unknown quantity for PD (who treat med schools as feeders, in the same way the UG schools are feeders for med schools.)

In any other scenario, I say choose the MD school over the DO school, simply because you'll have more career opportunities. But CMED being new, I'd give the edge to MSUCOM. The real determinant should be AFTER you interview at CMED....that's when to ask the question. It's too hypothetical now.


Wayne vs MSUCOM? Flip a coin.

femmegoblue said:
Oh no, I'm not considering NOT paying. I just really want to figure out where I would go OVER msucom, and I was hoping the answer wasn't "any MD school, no matter how mediocre". What do you think?
Click to expand...
 
Goro said:
Ahh, my apologies.

Newer schools have more bugs to work out in the delivery of their curriculum, and their grads are an unknown quantity for PD (who treat med schools as feeders, in the same way the UG schools are feeders for med schools.)

In any other scenario, I say choose the MD school over the DO school, simply because you'll have more career opportunities. But CMED being new, I'd give the edge to MSUCOM. The real determinant should be AFTER you interview at CMED....that's when to ask the question. It's too hypothetical now.


Wayne vs MSUCOM? Flip a coin.
Click to expand...
I think people give Wayne too much credit. It does the job, I guess, but at what cost? It's a miserable place to be.
 
Hi! I am in a similar situation for you. I am also in the BMS program (great program!). I have roommates at both MSUCOM and WSUSOM, both who came out of the BMS program. Their opinion is that MSUCOM provides a better quality of life, and helps their students get through the program more than WSUSOM. Living with both of them for the last two years, if I got into both school, I would chose MSUCOM>WSUSOM/CMU. All the Michigan residences are going to be open to both MD and DO by the time we graduate anyway.
 
wayneBMSpremed said:
Hi! I am in a similar situation for you. I am also in the BMS program (great program!). I have roommates at both MSUCOM and WSUSOM, both who came out of the BMS program. Their opinion is that MSUCOM provides a better quality of life, and helps their students get through the program more than WSUSOM. Living with both of them for the last two years, if I got into both school, I would chose MSUCOM>WSUSOM/CMU. All the Michigan residences are going to be open to both MD and DO by the time we graduate anyway.
Click to expand...

This isn't likely true.
 
I interviewed at Wayne State last year and it is an amazing school! The medical school area is so big that the main Wayne State (i.e. it's UG and other grad programs) looked like an accessory program whereas the medical school looked like the main program. There were literally like 15 gigantic hospitals around the med school. In fact, I needed to use the panorama feature on my phone to take photos of a couple of their hospitals because they were so big. So, if you get into both Wayne State and MSUCOM, take the Wayne State offer and run!
 
summergirl said:
I interviewed at Wayne State last year and it is an amazing school! The medical school area is so big that the main Wayne State (i.e. it's UG and other grad programs) looked like an accessory program whereas the medical school looked like the main program. There were literally like 15 gigantic hospitals around the med school. In fact, I needed to use the panorama feature on my phone to take photos of a couple of their hospitals because they were so big. So, if you get into both Wayne State and MSUCOM, take the Wayne State offer and run!
Click to expand...
Where did you end up going?
 
femmegoblue said:
I really think the administrative/support at msucom is heads and shoulders above Wayne.
Click to expand...

I think this is a very important point, you've got first hand experience with the wayne med program and it sounds like you wouldnt want to spend another 4 years there.

With the absolutely incredible amount of residencies set up through MSUCOM i doubt youll have any trouble matching. Assuming most of them become ACGME accredited. This is just speculation but i dont think these AOA soon to be ACGME residency's will abandon their grads. Not to mention MI is veryyyy DO friendly in general.

Also I'm pretty sure a pretty solid majority of MSUCOM grads already go ACGME.

MD will keep your options open and will help a great deal with fellowships. But if you only see yourself staying within Michigan I'd imagine you'd have nothing to worry about.

Established MD vs Established DO is usually a no brainer, which is why my initial statement was WMU>>>. But we shouldnt undermine fit in this scenario as it sounds you have a strong distaste for WMU lol.

That being said WMU has everything MSUCOM has in terms of clinical education, if not more( i havent checked to verify this). Not to mention if OMM isnt your cup of tea youll have more time without it to study or do research or whatever.


Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile
 
I have worked with and have known so many Ob/gyn's that were all DO. I am interested in becoming one as well so this is kind of news to me. I was told by these docs that it wasn't out of reach as a DO and it was very DO friendly. I do understand that MD is typically always chosen over DO but I know some people who have chosen DO for family/location reasons, and MSUCOM is an awesome school. I would love to apply but the OOS tuition is just a deal-breaker for me! I have a DO acceptance and stats that align with some of my state MD Schools, but who knows if that will come through. I knew it was difficult and almost impossible for some specialties, but I was always under the impression that ob/gyn was not "shooting for the stars" and I hope that it isn't 🙁
 
Noxy said:
I have worked with and have known so many Ob/gyn's that were all DO. I am interested in becoming one as well so this is kind of news to me. I was told by these docs that it wasn't out of reach as a DO and it was very DO friendly. I do understand that MD is typically always chosen over DO but I know some people who have chosen DO for family/location reasons, and MSUCOM is an awesome school. I would love to apply but the OOS tuition is just a deal-breaker for me! I have a DO acceptance and stats that align with some of my state MD Schools, but who knows if that will come through. I knew it was difficult and almost impossible for some specialties, but I was always under the impression that ob/gyn was not "shooting for the stars" and I hope that it isn't 🙁
Click to expand...
I really don't think ob/gyn is one of those that is out of reach, I think the above posters were moreso saying DO could be limiting for fellowships like UroGyn or MFM.
 
femmegoblue said:
I really don't think ob/gyn is one of those that is out of reach, I think the above posters were moreso saying DO could be limiting for fellowships like UroGyn or MFM.
Click to expand...
Yeah, that is sad to hear 🙁
 
femmegoblue said:
I really don't think ob/gyn is one of those that is out of reach, I think the above posters were moreso saying DO could be limiting for fellowships like UroGyn or MFM.
Click to expand...

Oh it's definitely not out of reach. It is very reasonable for a DO as a specialty, and average DOs match it, but the types of programs available is different depending on degree. Like you say being a DO is almost a death sentence (not quite but almost) for competitive fellowships like urogyn and MFM. Last year I think Gyn Onc was 94% filled with USMDs and no DOs.

I do agree with the above poster, that fit is very important. But if you even have an inkling that you could potentially like academic medicine or a competitive specialty then I would go WMS over MSUCOM.
 
Makes no difference where you go.... go wherever you prefer more. MSUCOM has MORE than enough residencies AND fellowships, let alone the state's MD schools having enough of both as well. You will be more than fine in either school. You should choose the place you're happier at, because then you will study better and perform better on boards. Your performance in the school will dictate your outcomes MUCH more than which school you choose between these.

The exception is if you want to practice outside of Michigan, I'd say choose the MD for more options. But in Michigan makes no difference. Feel free to PM me if you want some facts and figures for various residency/fellowships in Mich!
 
Also if you guys look there are 10 - 15 NEW gyn onc fellowship programs being created just this year alone. Don't worry about fellowships if you match into an academic IM program.
 
Ultimately MI is a pretty DO friendly and has a solid match list. I think it's a tough hypothetical choice but perhaps the key reason one might give it to CMED is for the possibility they increase in clout as CMED students begin to rotate around MI hospitals and PDs get exposure to this stock of students. But I think it's very possibly to match into OB/GYN through MSUCOM....I mean they are pretty much the top ranked primary care powerhouse(it outranks several MDs in that regard) for DO schools and a lot of MD schools and they are recognized nationally for this very reason.
 
Robotfishbrain said:
It's weird because MSUCOM has a great reputation, but people will say MD > DO for any scenario. I would honestly try to email some faculty in MSU's clinical education department and explain to them your goals and if MSUCOM can help you with them. SDN is only one source of information you should consider.

The fact remains MSU is by far one of the most prominent academic centers in the country. I think I would also be in a bind if I were in your position. My only advice is to also ask outside of SDN =).
Click to expand...
It's probably fourth medical center in the state. Serious hyperbole calling it one of the most prominent in the country.
 
DrBowtie said:
It's probably fourth medical center in the state. Serious hyperbole calling it one of the most prominent in the country.
Click to expand...
Yeah agreed. It's a great public academic center, but likely doesn't hold a candle to U of M, Beaumont or DMC systems.
 
a resident at my DO school is finishing up their AOA OB residency and matched at the NIH for reproductive endocrinology for fellowship. Pretty sure MSU won't limit you for OB.
 
Id go MD fam, I think matching obgyn will be relatively the same for DO vs MD, but in the long run, the MD after you name would keep more doors open for you if you want to do something more
 
Robotfishbrain said:
It's weird because MSUCOM has a great reputation, but people will say MD > DO for any scenario. I would honestly try to email some faculty in MSU's clinical education department and explain to them your goals and if MSUCOM can help you with them. SDN is only one source of information you should consider.

The fact remains MSU is by far one of the most prominent academic centers in the country. I think I would also be in a bind if I were in your position. My only advice is to also ask outside of SDN =).
Click to expand...
No. it's good, but do not over compensate for something that is not so.
cliquesh said:
I'd go to the MD school.

You shouldn't have much trouble matching Ob/gyn coming from MSU. However, as someone else mentioned, DOs are not well represented in ob/gyn acgme fellowships. In 2016, only 4 of the approximately 200 ob/gyn fellowship spots went to DOs. I don't know why, and I don't know if ob/gyn is one of those specialities that few people do fellowships after residency. Just something to keep in mind.
Click to expand...
MSUCOM is very well represented in Ob/Gyn and you cannot compare ACGME spots for this person, because he or she will be graduating after 2020 when most AOA slots will be ACGME qualified, but more importantly they will have a strong relationship with DO graduates.

AnatomyGrey12 said:
Unfortunately the differences in the match are very real. Take the MD no matter where it is from, it really will make a huge difference come match time. Put it this way, if you compare DO and MD charting outcomes a below average MD will still have a good chance at matching things like OB/GYN and GS. A DO will not. The reality is, and people will get all stirred up over this, but a CNU graduate will probably fare much better in the match than a PCOM or MSU grad. The two letters actually do matter (in matching, not practice)
Click to expand...
I usually agree with you, but I do not agree with this. It's not ALWAYS MD>DO. MSUCOM is by far an exception and should be taken over any new MD school, even Wayne.
 
OrdinaryDO said:
I usually agree with you, but I do not agree with this. It's not ALWAYS MD>DO. MSUCOM is by far an exception and should be taken over any new MD school, even Wayne
Click to expand...

It is always MD over DO when it comes to residency matching. Even CNU will have a match list superior to any DO school and it won't even be close.
 
AnatomyGrey12 said:
It is always MD over DO when it comes to residency matching. Even CNU will have a match list superior to any DO school and it won't even be close.
Click to expand...
You are very wrong..now that every residency slot for matriculating students from this point on will be ACGME it won't matter as much. You probably won't get into a tier 1 academic institute, but you will get into an ACGME residency. MSUCOM is one of the most respected DO schools in the nation, let alone the fact that it is one of the very OLDEST and most ESTABLISHED. Credentials aren't everything in scenarios like this.
 
OrdinaryDO said:
You are very wrong..now that every residency slot for matriculating students from this point on will be ACGME it won't matter as much. You probably won't get into a tier 1 academic institute, but you will get into an ACGME residency. MSUCOM is one of the most respected DO schools in the nation, let alone the fact that it is one of the very OLDEST and most ESTABLISHED. Credentials aren't everything in scenarios like this.
Click to expand...

I understand what you're saying and your argument is logical, but that's not how the world works. Are you a MSU graduate? The merger isn't going to change programs' biases.
 
cliquesh said:
I understand what you're saying and your argument is logical, but that's not how the world works. Are you a MSU graduate? The merger isn't going to change programs' biases.
Click to expand...

What? It's not going to change anything. It's going to force AOA residences to go ACGME which will ALREADY have a bias. That's where it comes into play. Not sure why you thought I meant the other way.


Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Similar threads

S
Interesting Take - Canadian MD vs US DO
Replies
2
Views
801
sky778
S
NaoGuiHua
Australian MD inside australia VS USDO inside USA (as an international student) specialties chances.
Replies
14
Views
743
MusicDOc124
MusicDOc124
S
Reapply or not?
Replies
10
Views
1K
sunsetvibes1234
S
2026PreMed
Is there any truth in the statement that DO applicants can't match into most specialties ? - Nerve Racking Convo I had
Replies
20
Views
863
Goro
Goro
H
taking pre reqs at other institutions?
Replies
2
Views
478
Goro
Goro
Top