Mt. Sinai St. Luke's Roosevelt IM - university or affiliate?

[leigheas]

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Can anyone help me out with this? On FREIDA it states this program is university-based, and on ERAS it looks like that as well, but I've heard a lot of people refer to this program as a community program.

Thanks!

 

[Animalcules]

It is a community program that is part of a university health system. But why do care?

 

[leigheas]

I have been told by many people it's better to go to a university program if you desire a competitive fellowship. I know this is not always true as some community affiliated programs are still very strong, but was wondering as I am seeing conflicting information online regarding whether this program is university or affiliated.

 

[Daodejing]

It's a community program. Icahn MSSM is the real deal academic place.

 

[the argus]

As has been said above, it's a community program.

That said, it does have in-house fellowships in cardiology, GI, pulm/crit, ID, nephrology, and endocrine. Not to mention you're in the Mount Sinai system and the main academic center is just up the road. So in terms of community programs it probably gives people as good a shot as any other community program in obtaining fellowships.

 

[ROBINHO]

I have been told by many people it's better to go to a university program if you desire a competitive fellowship. I know this is not always true as some community affiliated programs are still very strong, but was wondering as I am seeing conflicting information online regarding whether this program is university or affiliated.

It is a community hospital affiliated to Mount Sinai.
But I won't lump hospitals into University versus Community. This particular program is a very good community program. For example Nationally renowned Jagat Narula is the chief of cardiology there and they do have exposure to a lot of Mount Sinai faculty

 

[cabergoline2]

For historic reasons it can be considered university based ... Why is it that only Harvard is entitled to have 3 university programs ? Why can't BIDMC be called a harvard affiliated community program?

 

[Psai]

For historic reasons it can be considered university based ... Why is it that only Harvard is entitled to have 3 university programs ? Why can't BIDMC be called a harvard affiliated community program?

?

 

[cabergoline2]

?

St. Luke was the first teaching hospital of Columbia university in laste 1800s before it got connected with NY-Presbyterian. It remained a major teaching site of Columbia university till 2013 when continuum partners was acquired by Mt.Sinai...Mt. Sinai retained its "university hospital" flavor by appointing an associate dean from SLR and BI..and giving academic positions to all SLR faculty... hence the program is classified as "university based" in Freida and elsewhere. I used BIDMC as an analogy to counter the point of one of the posters who said that since MS-H is the university hospital, so SLR has to be a Community based program. . By the same analogy, MGH-BWH are the main harvard hospitals. Why don't we classify BIDMC as a community program ? Just a matter of semantics.

 

[ColdTurkiye]

I have spent a lot of time reading up on this program recently. I've learned a few things.

1. It represents a significant part of the Mount Sinai Health System, with the other major contributors being Mount Sinai Hospital (Mount Sinai medical school's main teaching site), Beth Israel (currently being restructured), and the New York Eye and Ear Infirmary.

2. It appears more academic than your garden-variety "community" program, and especially so considering NYC community hospitals.

3. SLR residents have the opportunity to complete electives around the system, and at MSKCC.

4. Residents are strongly encouraged to participate in research and other scholarly activities.

5. Fellowship match list is on par with mid/low-tier university programs. They match very well into academic programs for cardiology, heme/onc, and pulm/cc. GI, not so well. But anecdotally 4 non-chief member of the class of 2017 matched to GI.

 

[cabergoline2]

I have a friend who is a PGY3 there.. They did match 4 pgy3s x GI this year..one of them had a ton of research. One was in house . 2 had the usual abstracts and case reports and yet managed to match in university programs.

There cards and hem-onc match are at par with mid to upper mid tier university programs.. Last 6 years they have 35-40 cards matches including 2 in NYU-Langone , 1 in yale , 1 in emory and ton of other mid tier places. Hem onc matches include Moffet , UMD, cleveland clinic ,emory ,yale , vanderbilt , MDACC (2012)...

 

[whoknows2012]

.

 

[whoknows2012]

I have a friend who is a PGY3 there.. They did match 4 pgy3s x GI this year..one of them had a ton of research. One was in house . 2 had the usual abstracts and case reports and yet managed to match in university programs.

There cards and hem-onc match are at par with mid to upper mid tier university programs.. Last 6 years they have 35-40 cards matches including 2 in NYU-Langone , 1 in yale , 1 in emory and ton of other mid tier places. Hem onc matches include Moffet , UMD, cleveland clinic ,emory ,yale , vanderbilt , MDACC (2012)...

The last couple replies to this thread are ridiculous. SLR is no doubt a good training program but it is a) university AFFILIATED program and b) one of the best community programs in NY on par with Jacobi.

To call this program a university program is disingenuous. It isn't and applicants know this much. I agree that they match to fellowship fairly well but to say that it matches as well as an upper mid tier academic program is just ridiculous I'm sorry. Maybe you need direct comparison to show that you're completely off base. This is mis-information and does a disservice to those applying.

Also besides the mdacc match in 2012 in h/o those others are nothing special and other great community programs like Jacobi and Einstein Philly have as good or better matches.

 

[cabergoline2]

I have no dog in the fight. However, if u compare the match rates with programs like UT-Santonio , U kentucky , UTMB-Galveston , Indiana university ,arkansas ,loyola etc the match rates are either comparable or SLR/Jacobi have better matches. (except for GI maybe)...of course Einstein philly and Jakobi has equivalent match rates.. (Jacobi is referred to as a community program in the forums even though it is housed in the same campus as AECOM and the Weiler hospital ). .of course there is the other side of the story...The residents in these programs (slr,jakobi , ccf etc, ) are top tier imgs , many of whom have a ton of research and are bound to do well no matter where they go... The match may be as much reflective of the strength of the residents as that of the institute.
my argument was mainly on the arbitrary nature of why some programs are classified as academic and some as community, particularly on SDN... Especially programs like Case/Metrohealth ,SLR and Jacobi which are reported as university based in FREIDA...

 

[whoknows2012]

I have no dog in the fight. However, if u compare the match rates with programs like UT-Santonio , U kentucky , UTMB-Galveston , Indiana university ,arkansas ,loyola etc the match rates are either comparable or SLR/Jacobi have better matches. (except for GI maybe)...of course Einstein philly and Jakobi has equivalent match rates.. (Jacobi is referred to as a community program in the forums even though it is housed in the same campus as AECOM and the Weiler hospital ). .of course there is the other side of the story...The residents in these programs (slr,jakobi , ccf etc, ) are top tier imgs , many of whom have a ton of research and are bound to do well no matter where they go... The match may be as much reflective of the strength of the residents as that of the institute.
my argument was mainly on the arbitrary nature of why some programs are classified as academic and some as community, particularly on SDN... Especially programs like Case/Metrohealth ,SLR and Jacobi which are reported as university based in FREIDA...

I hear you. But I did a Sub I at SLR and was a resident at monte. Jacobi and SLR ARE community programs. Do they have top tier IMG's? Yes. Are they trained well? Yes. Do they match well? Yes (although as you mentioned is probably more reflective of the residents themselves than the program). Like I said though, these programs are not university based even if it's how they're mentioned on FREIDA.

 

[ColdTurkiye]

Rather than making a university vs community distinction it is probably better to make an academic vs non-academic distinction. Most of the university programs tend be academic in nature whereas most of the community programs are non-academic.

I define academic as having good opportunity for research, good support, with bonus points for being a tertiary referral center and access to more complicated cases. With the most important feature being the opportunity for research in any field, which seems to be the most important thing for obtaining a fellowship in that field (especially for the more competitive subspecialities).

SLR and Jacobi are more academic in that they have strong ties to big institutions, even if they are community hospitals. SLR to Mount Sinai, and Jacobi to AECOM. And research is ultimately what matters for competitive fellowships. Smaller community programs that don't have many research opportunities limit the potential for residents.

 

[whoknows2012]

Rather than making a university vs community distinction it is probably better to make an academic vs non-academic distinction. Most of the university programs tend be academic in nature whereas most of the community programs are non-academic.

I define academic as having good opportunity for research, good support, with bonus points for being a tertiary referral center and access to more complicated cases. With the most important feature being the opportunity for research in any field, which seems to be the most important thing for obtaining a fellowship in that field (especially for the more competitive subspecialities).

SLR and Jacobi are more academic in that they have strong ties to big institutions, even if they are community hospitals. SLR to Mount Sinai, and Jacobi to AECOM. And research is ultimately what matters for competitive fellowships. Smaller community programs that don't have many research opportunities limit the potential for residents.

Agree with above

 

[Amano]

But I did a Sub I at SLR and was a resident at monte. Jacobi and SLR ARE community programs.

Jacobi was actually the first and for years the only university hospital and IM program for AECOM. When I was a resident there years ago Montefiore was aggressively pushing the AECOM leadership to show that it was "The" university program for AECOM, and I am sure this has become much worse since Montefiore fully bought out AECOM.

Jacobi is not the kind of program that would be popular at SDN since it mainly attracts top-tier FMGs and some strong AMGs (who have their reasons to want to train there). That, along with the support the housestaff get from the program leadership, allows it to have strong fellowship placements. AMGs with steps in the 220s that would allow them to match in other programs that are better regarded at SDN would be highly unlikely to match at Jacobi unless they have other things that really stand out in their application.

 

[cabergoline2]

How would one define a university hospital and a university affiliated, community hospital ? In most cases its obvious. Like Vanderbilt university medical center is obviously a university hospital. And garden variety community programs with tenuous affiliations that I would not be able to name on the top of my head are obviously community.
I am interested if anyone can come up with an objective definition that includes BIDMC as a university hospital ,but metrohealth, Jacobi and SLR as community hospitals. How is BIDMCs relation with Harvard different from Jacobi's relation with AECOM or SLRs relation with Icahn , or metros relation with case ? Obviously the perceived prestige of the program cannot define one as university and others as not.

 

[whoknows2012]

How would one define a university hospital and a university affiliated, community hospital ? In most cases its obvious. Like Vanderbilt university medical center is obviously a university hospital. And garden variety community programs with tenuous affiliations that I would not be able to name on the top of my head are obviously community.
I am interested if anyone can come up with an objective definition that includes BIDMC as a university hospital ,but metrohealth, Jacobi and SLR as community hospitals. How is BIDMCs relation with Harvard different from Jacobi's relation with AECOM or SLRs relation with Icahn , or metros relation with case ? Obviously the perceived prestige of the program cannot define one as university and others as not.

This is an irrelevant argument you're making. Someone above posted about access to research etc is an important way of distinguishing a regular small community program and a true "academic" program. By that I would agree slr and Jacobi are more academic than say a Maimonides or Lutheran. To lump the four of those programs together even though they're all university affiliates isn't fair either. So there is obviously a spectrum. But by the same token to say SLR and Jacobi are the same as a true university program doesn't need quite make sense either. They just aren't. Comparing it to BIDMC also makes no sense because BIDMC doesn't act as a "community" "university affiliated hospital. It acts as a university based academic center not so dissimilar (although not quite as prestigious) as the sister programs of mgh and bwh. Not really sure how else to say it most people I've interacted with including residents at these programs you speak of understand these distinctions.

 

[whoknows2012]

Jacobi was actually the first and for years the only university hospital and IM program for AECOM. When I was a resident there years ago Montefiore was aggressively pushing the AECOM leadership to show that it was "The" university program for AECOM, and I am sure this has become much worse since Montefiore fully bought out AECOM.

Jacobi is not the kind of program that would be popular at SDN since it mainly attracts top-tier FMGs and some strong AMGs (who have their reasons to want to train there). That, along with the support the housestaff get from the program leadership, allows it to have strong fellowship placements. AMGs with steps in the 220s that would allow them to match in other programs that are better regarded at SDN would be highly unlikely to match at Jacobi unless they have other things that really stand out in their application.

I wouldn't say "worse" as there is quite a good relationship between the two programs as they rotate together at weiler hospital on ward months. Montefiore taking over AECOM has had no impact as the distinction between the two has been well established for many years now.(Even though I realize the Jacobi program was the university hospital of aecom back in the day---the monte pd trained there)

 

[Animalcules]

How would one define a university hospital and a university affiliated, community hospital ? In most cases its obvious. Like Vanderbilt university medical center is obviously a university hospital. And garden variety community programs with tenuous affiliations that I would not be able to name on the top of my head are obviously community.
I am interested if anyone can come up with an objective definition that includes BIDMC as a university hospital ,but metrohealth, Jacobi and SLR as community hospitals. How is BIDMCs relation with Harvard different from Jacobi's relation with AECOM or SLRs relation with Icahn , or metros relation with case ? Obviously the perceived prestige of the program cannot define one as university and others as not.

BIDMC is an anomaly based on the fact that Harvard Medical School does not have a true university hospital, hence the three big teaching hospitals MGH, BWH, and BIDMC. There are many others affiliated that by no means people would even consider to be university hospitals despite their similar designation as a "teaching hospital". Attending at these programs are tenured at Harvard. If you are ever uncertain how to classify a program, count the faculty that are leaders in their field and publish regularly at the highest impact journals. You will see that BIDMC is closer to MGH and BWH than other community programs are to their flagship university hospitals.

TLDR: BIDMC doesn't fit the bill, but it is a rare exception to the rule. SLR is a good community hospital, but their match list is deceiving as they rank many productive FMGs there that tend to match better than the DO/AMG rest.

 

[gutonc]

I'd like to congratulate the OP on creating the most tedious and pedantic thread the IM board has seen in my 10+ years here.

 

[ColdTurkiye]

I'd like to congratulate the OP on creating the most tedious and pedantic thread the IM board has seen in my 10+ years here.

I think you're right. It is a little too pedantic for IM. Any chance we can have this moved over to the neurology board?

 

[cabergoline2]

intellectual masturbation is the phrase u are looking for..

 

[Uncle Albert]

Jacobi was actually the first and for years the only university hospital and IM program for AECOM. When I was a resident there years ago Montefiore was aggressively pushing the AECOM leadership to show that it was "The" university program for AECOM, and I am sure this has become much worse since Montefiore fully bought out AECOM.

Jacobi is not the kind of program that would be popular at SDN since it mainly attracts top-tier FMGs and some strong AMGs (who have their reasons to want to train there). That, along with the support the housestaff get from the program leadership, allows it to have strong fellowship placements. AMGs with steps in the 220s that would allow them to match in other programs that are better regarded at SDN would be highly unlikely to match at Jacobi unless they have other things that really stand out in their application.

Current AECOM student here. Since when did you need a 220+ to match in Jacobi?


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[W19]

It's a community program. Icahn MSSM is the real deal academic place.

There are 3 Icahn Mount Sinai programs in NY city... So confusing!

1. Icahn School of Medicine at Mount Sinai (Beth Israel) Program

2. Icahn School of Medicine at Mount Sinai Program

3. Icahn School of Medicine at Mount Sinai/St Luke’s-Roosevelt Hospital Center Program

Which on is the 'real deal academic place'?

 

[rokshana]

There are 3 Icahn Mount Sinai programs in NY city... So confusing!

1. Icahn School of Medicine at Mount Sinai (Beth Israel) Program

2. Icahn School of Medicine at Mount Sinai Program

3. Icahn School of Medicine at Mount Sinai/St Luke’s-Roosevelt Hospital Center Program

Which on is the 'real deal academic place'?

#2

 

[W19]

@rokshana So #1 and #3 are run-of-the-mill programs that someone with ~220 step1 score might get a shot at...

 

[cabergoline2]

@rokshana So #1 and #3 are run-of-the-mill programs that someone with ~220 step1 score might get a shot at...

220s for US-MDs ...Most imgs in those programs have 250+ in both steps and a strong cv besides that..

 

[cabergoline2]

Current AECOM student here. Since when did you need a 220+ to match in Jacobi?


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I know a few people in Jacobi... The IMGs are 250+ ..The few AMGs there are very strong too... They had a match in UPenn cardio before 2-3 years..the guy was from a top tier US med school who could have matched IM anywhere he wanted... Most incontrovertibly university programs have never matched anyone in U-Penn cardio... there may be people with lower scores...but they have things that stand out in their application...Like PhD etc...

 

[whoknows2012]

I know a few people in Jacobi... The IMGs are 250+ ..The few AMGs there are very strong too... They had a match in UPenn cardio before 2-3 years..the guy was from a top tier US med school who could have matched IM anywhere he wanted... Most incontrovertibly university programs have never matched anyone in U-Penn cardio... there may be people with lower scores...but they have things that stand out in their application...Like PhD etc...

Alot of their top matches (besides your n=1) are from fmgs and especially Chiefs. MDACC I think 2 years ago comes to mind. Also they're one of the few programs that have spots for religious jews who observe the sabbath. Those students (2/yr) are usually quite strong bc most solid training programs do not have this and so I imagine is quite competitive.

 

[ColdTurkiye]

@rokshana So #1 and #3 are run-of-the-mill programs that someone with ~220 step1 score might get a shot at...

Yes. But be careful with Mount Sinai Beth Israel. The Mount Sinai Health System is in the process of restructuring the hospital, closing the inpatient side, and building a 70 bed outpatient facility to replace it. At present I believe it has about 800 beds. I won't be applying there due to all of the uncertainty surrounding the program.

Google it and read some of the articles about the changes before applying. I saw a few from 2014-2015 that gave an expected timetable for the completion of the downsizing of 4 years. I have no idea what happens to residents in a program that closes.

 

[whoknows2012]

Yes. But be careful with Mount Sinai Beth Israel. The Mount Sinai Health System is in the process of restructuring the hospital, closing the inpatient side, and building a 70 bed outpatient facility to replace it. At present I believe it has about 800 beds. I won't be applying there due to all of the uncertainty surrounding the program.

Google it and read some of the articles about the changes before applying. I saw a few from 2014-2015 that gave an expected timetable for the completion of the downsizing of 4 years. I have no idea what happens to residents in a program that closes.

Given what we know about the situation I'd suggest not applying there at all. Not worth the risk and there are several decent to good community hospitals that have an academic feel in the area.

 

[cabergoline2]

Something very curious is going on...A lof of SLR and BIs residencies and fellowships merged with each other and with Mt. Sinai hospital.. For instance GI fellowship of BI and SLR merged...If I am not mistaken the derm residency of SLR was merged with MS-H..(or was it radio? )... the cards fellowship at BI was down-sized this year from 5 or 6 to 2...And it remained completely unfilled..That fellowship was in the past very well regarded.. So I would not touch BI with the barge pole...when St. Vincents closed down a few years ago ,its residents were scattered all across the country...that must have been bad...apply to SLR instead...its much more academic than BI...BI was predominantly AMGs and DOs or carribean ...while slr is pre-dominantly IMGs..but with increasing portion of AMGs..

 

[Amano]

Current AECOM student here. Since when did you need a 220+ to match in Jacobi?

During my time there (2+ years ago) 220+ would likely get you an interview if you are an AECOM student and did well on your rotations there (much less likely if you were from another school) but to be ranked to match you would need something strong in your application, and do well on your interview. The PD is the same and I doubt this has changed much; if anything, IM is steadily becoming more competitive. They state their general step score criteria here: Jacobi Medical Center – Department of Medicine – Internal Medicine Residency Program | DEAR APPLICANTS but I have seen both AMGs and FMGs/IMGs match with 210+ on the steps although they all invariably had one or more things that really boosted them.

This was a conscious decision by the leadership there. Fellowship PDs want their fellows to be able to perform well clinically and academically. I agree with whoknows2012 that the Sabbath track plays a major role in the competitiveness of at least some of the AMGs. When you are in a county hospital in the Bronx (diverse pathology) surrounded by curious, high-achieving residents you have a good chance to learn medicine. And with AECOM just across the street you can be productive academically. I had no issues interviewing anywhere I wanted and matching in a competitive fellowship, and I am pretty sure I have no clinical deficits compared with any of my co-fellows coming from the revered "big four" or anywhere else really.

Again, people that would consider training at Jacobi are not the standard SDN crowd, which is why the program will never be that well-regarded around here. But students that are low in their class rank, did not do well on their medicine rotations etc. should take what is said in this forum with a grain of salt and not necessarily expect to interview or match at Jacobi as a community/safety etc.

 

[W19]

Yes. But be careful with Mount Sinai Beth Israel. The Mount Sinai Health System is in the process of restructuring the hospital, closing the inpatient side, and building a 70 bed outpatient facility to replace it. At present I believe it has about 800 beds. I won't be applying there due to all of the uncertainty surrounding the program.

Google it and read some of the articles about the changes before applying. I saw a few from 2014-2015 that gave an expected timetable for the completion of the downsizing of 4 years. I have no idea what happens to residents in a program that closes.

I remove it from my list then... Stony Brook is my top choice around the NY city area anyway...

 

[235009]

I remove it from my list then... Stony Brook is my top choice around the NY city area anyway...

Stony brook is quite far from NYC. For reference it is slightly further than Providence is from Boston and almost twice as far as Baltimore is from Washington DC.


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[W19]

Stony brook is quite far from NYC. For reference it is slightly further than Providence is from Boston and almost twice as far as Baltimore is from Washington DC.


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I know it's about 90 minutes drive from NY. Ideally, I would like to get into a good program that is 3o-45 minutes from NY city, but my 215-220 step1 score probably won't cut it. So I think SB is a good compromise. I want to enjoy the life of NY city when I have a little time off during residency, but I don't live in NY city and the surrounding areas for a multitude of reasons.

If you know other good programs that are < 1hr drive from NY that won't reject me outright because of my step 1 score, share them.

 

[235009]

I know it's about 90 minutes drive from NY. Ideally, I would like to get into a good program that is 3o-45 minutes from NY city, but my 215-220 step1 score probably won't cut it. So I think SB is a good compromise. I want to enjoy the life of NY city when I have a little time off during residency, but I don't live in NY city and the surrounding areas for a multitude of reasons.

If you know other good programs that are < 1hr drive from NY that won't reject me outright because of my step 1 score, share them.

Unfortunately that score relegates you to community programs in nyc. Some University programs near nyc that might give you a look are RWJ and NJMS in NJ and Northwell (formerly Northshore) LIJ in long Island. Winthrop is another community hospital in the region you might want to consider. I strongly recommend casting a wider net though.


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[W19]

Unfortunately that score relegates you to community programs in nyc. Some University programs near nyc that might give you a look are RWJ and NJMS in NJ and Northwell (formerly Northshore) LIJ in long Island. Winthrop is another community hospital in the region you might want to consider. I strongly recommend casting a wider net though.


Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile app

Definitely casting a wider net--applying 60+ programs mostly in the North east and the South.

 

[ColdTurkiye]

Slightly off topic. But coming out of a residency program like Jacobi, SLR, Maimonides, how much research does it take to get into a hematology/oncology fellowship? 1 first author journal article? 2? 3? I'm not particularly interested in an academic career and probably just want to work in a clinical setting in the future.

 

[cabergoline2]

Slightly off topic. But coming out of a residency program like Jacobi, SLR, Maimonides, how much research does it take to get into a hematology/oncology fellowship? 1 first author journal article? 2? 3? I'm not particularly interested in an academic career and probably just want to work in a clinical setting in the future.

1 abstract is more than enough to match somewhere in hemonc coming from jacobi or slr..in fact most people don't have even that..however those matches are in low tier university or community programs...however if u want top tier academic programs u need a lot lot more...

 

[whoknows2012]

1 abstract is more than enough to match somewhere in hemonc coming from jacobi or slr..in fact most people don't have even that..however those matches are in low tier university or community programs...however if u want top tier academic programs u need a lot lot more...

Top tier academic program for heme/onc are tough coming from even a mid tier university program. Takes something special usually. PhD, significant research (several pubs above and beyond abstracts) , chief. Those all go a long way. Coming from Jacobi or
SLR I agree you'd definitely match somewhere but if you're interested in excellent training it would behoove you to get as much done research wise as possible.

 

[cabergoline2]

Top tier academic program for heme/onc are tough coming from even a mid tier university program. Takes something special usually. PhD, significant research (several pubs above and beyond abstracts) , chief. Those all go a long way. Coming from Jacobi or
SLR I agree you'd definitely match somewhere but if you're interested in excellent training it would behoove you to get as much done research wise as possible.

Unless you are in top 20 IM programs , u d need to work your butts for top tier hem onc.. Having said that both SLR and Jaobi have consistently matched top tier in hem onc. This year SLR matched emory. Last year vanderbilt.the year before that Moffet and yale ..jacobis match in top tier hem onc is great too... All those people had high quality research... Access to sloan kettering makes it easier for SLR .. this year one of sloans chief is from SLR. So I d say getting fellowships is no different if u are in mid tier university or u are in SLR and Jacobi...

 

[whoknows2012]

Unless you are in top 20 IM programs , u d need to work your butts for top tier hem onc.. Having said that both SLR and Jaobi have consistently matched top tier in hem onc. This year SLR matched emory. Last year vanderbilt.the year before that Moffet and yale ..jacobis match in top tier hem onc is great too... All those people had high quality research... Access to sloan kettering makes it easier for SLR .. this year one of sloans chief is from SLR. So I d say getting fellowships is no different if u are in mid tier university or u are in SLR and Jacobi...

Take a look at the fellow list from msk. No fellows that were residents at SLR.

Department of Medicine: Our Fellows | Memorial Sloan Kettering Cancer Center

 

[cabergoline2]

Take a look at the fellow list from msk. No fellows that were residents at SLR.

Department of Medicine: Our Fellows | Memorial Sloan Kettering Cancer Center

I said that the sloan IM chief resident this year is an SLR IM grad...(not sure whether that ll improve the odds of matching there,most likely won't).. They have not taken anyone in hem-onc for a while (they did 5-10 years ago when it was still a columbia program)...though they do take people in GI and pulm crit...however hem-onc applicants always get LORs from MSKCC faculty and can always do research there...which helps in matching other top tier places...MSKCC hem-onc is obviously ultra-elitist...most current fellows are from Big 6...All from the top 20/25..I doubt anyone from stony-brook or indiana-univ has any better chance of matching at mskcc...if US-MD is debating mid-tier univ v/s SLR (which was the original intent of the thread) than Hem-onc at MSKCC was never in the picture frame ,so no point losing sleep over it..

 

[Syndicate]

Slightly off topic. But coming out of a residency program like Jacobi, SLR, Maimonides, how much research does it take to get into a hematology/oncology fellowship? 1 first author journal article? 2? 3? I'm not particularly interested in an academic career and probably just want to work in a clinical setting in the future.

1 abstract is more than enough to match somewhere in hemonc coming from jacobi or slr..in fact most people don't have even that..however those matches are in low tier university or community programs...however if u want top tier academic programs u need a lot lot more...

Top tier academic program for heme/onc are tough coming from even a mid tier university program. Takes something special usually. PhD, significant research (several pubs above and beyond abstracts) , chief. Those all go a long way. Coming from Jacobi or
SLR I agree you'd definitely match somewhere but if you're interested in excellent training it would behoove you to get as much done research wise as possible.

Well if your goal is to just do clinical work (I assume private practice since that's pretty much all clinical work), then you don't necessarily need to go to MSK or MD-Anderson. A mid-tier fellowship program is probably more than enough. Idk about community fellowship programs though. Personally, I would try to avoid those if I can. Maybe @gutonc can weigh in?

 

[whoknows2012]

I said that the sloan IM chief resident this year is an SLR IM grad...(not sure whether that ll improve the odds of matching there,most likely won't).. They have not taken anyone in hem-onc for a while (they did 5-10 years ago when it was still a columbia program)...though they do take people in GI and pulm crit...however hem-onc applicants always get LORs from MSKCC faculty and can always do research there...which helps in matching other top tier places...MSKCC hem-onc is obviously ultra-elitist...most current fellows are from Big 6...All from the top 20/25..I doubt anyone from stony-brook or indiana-univ has any better chance of matching at mskcc...if US-MD is debating mid-tier univ v/s SLR (which was the original intent of the thread) than Hem-onc at MSKCC was never in the picture frame ,so no point losing sleep over it..

Fair. But it's not exclusively top 20-25 programs. 3 current fellows from monte (2 3rd years and 1 2nd yr) and 1 in the upcoming class.

 

[cabergoline2]

montes close enough to top 25... and they have many other elite matches like cleveland clinic cardiology...