Must I do research in medical school?

[Imogen]

I'm starting med school in a few days and I have a strong interest in heme/onc. I did a tiny bit of research as a premed but garnered no pubs and frankly, I'm far more interested in clinical work than research in my future career. So my question is, do I have to do research in med school? Will residencies consider me less competitive for not doing any?

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[BA11]

No

 

[Doctor Bob]

So my question is, do I have to do research in med school? Will residencies consider me less competitive for not doing any?

You will be less competitive than an equally qualified candidate who has done research.

In other words... the lack of research will not be viewed as a negative; it's a neutral. The presence of research is a positive.

 

[J ROD]

No. But, it can help.

Generally, it is a must if you want to go for a competitive fellowship once in residency.

 

[evilbooyaa]

Depends on your specialty of interest. Heme/Onc and immunology are fellowships, so no med school research required (as stated above, residency research will be expected).

Ophtho is a specialty that may benefit from research. Some of the more competitive specialties also are more intensive in research.

 

[Kal EI]

Depends on your specialty of interest. Heme/Onc and immunology are fellowships, so no med school research required (as stated above, residency research will be expected).

Ophtho is a specialty that may benefit from research. Some of the more competitive specialties also are more intensive in research.

Hem/onc you would definitely want to do research. Ophtho also. The more competitive, the more research.

Hem/onc seems to be a field that you would want to have a strong research background in. Even if you did only clinical medicine as an attending.

In general, once you have really competitive spots, there is no questions like "do I have to do _____?" The competitive specialties have people jumping at the chance to do anything/everything (e.g. research, aways, etc.)

 

[BA11]

No. But, it can help.

Generally, it is a must if you want to go for a competitive fellowship once in residency.

Even this is a stretch, and even if it weren't there are plenty of opportunities to do research after the typical 1st/2nd year summer gap.

IMO, as someone who enjoyed their summer and did a preceptorship between 1st and 2nd year, unless you LOVE research don't do it. Working 40 hours a week during the last full summer you'll ever have isn't worth it if you don't love doing it. Research later on is a better option if you need it for a chosen specialty unless you want to do one of the really competitive residencies.

 

[Imogen]

Thanks for the input everyone. I actually talked to an older med student at my new school today and they told me that even in fellowships like heme/onc, there are community programs that don't really care about research. So they seemed to be under the impression that research was only really worth anything for residency/fellowship programs with a strong research focus?

Anyway, maybe I need to be thinking more like Kal El suggested -- with a "you say jump, and I'll say how high mentality." I guess I'm just a little tired of doing all that hoop jumping as a premed and I was hoping in med school people sorted into specialties in a way that seemed more relevant to their actual interests.

 

[Azurophil]

Well, there a lot of options for research beyond the lab bench. Talk to your school's research office about clinical or community research opportunities. Talk to your lecturers and small group preceptors if you find their work interesting.

 

[evilbooyaa]

Hem/onc you would definitely want to do research. Ophtho also. The more competitive, the more research.

Hem/onc seems to be a field that you would want to have a strong research background in. Even if you did only clinical medicine as an attending.

In general, once you have really competitive spots, there is no questions like "do I have to do _____?" The competitive specialties have people jumping at the chance to do anything/everything (e.g. research, aways, etc.)

Yes, you would want to do research for heme-onc. That does NOT mean you have to do it DURING medical school. You can do it during residency.

Ophtho does not have the benefit of doing research after medical school (in order to get into residency), therefore it is required during medical school.

 

[Slack3r]

Our school explicitly told us research was practically an unwritten requirement for ENT, plastics, derm, rad onc, ortho, and ophtho.

 

[JJMrK]

Probably a good idea if you're interested in ophtho. Things are becoming more and more competitive; there's no good reason not to do the best you can to put forward an outstanding application.

 

[speeddemon]

How about general surgery or radiology? Is research an unwritten requirement for those fields as well?

 

[JJMrK]

Traditionally it's not as big. Research will be important for big name places in any field, however.

 

[Sabate]

How about general surgery or radiology? Is research an unwritten requirement for those fields as well?

It depends on the programs you're applying to. As a huge generalization, academic programs emphasize research much more than community programs. For a lot of the more competitive programs there are unwritten requirements to do research just because everyone else has done it as well (though research in the same field is always a big plus).

 

[tiedyeddog]

Traditionally it's not as big. Research will be important for big name places in any field, however.

this

 

[J ROD]

I was talking with the head of our Psy department and she informed me that all residencies will require significant research experience this yr on. So, you will have to do a research project while in residency.

I have a friend in residency back this up too. Personally, I wanted to get some research experience on my CV. I have a ton of everything else. So, I am going to work on that during the semester. Plus, Psy research is cool to me.

I am one that doesnt care to kill myself in classes. I am more focused on Step 1 and just keeping a respectable GPA (> 3.0)

 

[Slack3r]

I was talking with the head of our Psy department and she informed me that all residencies will require significant research experience this yr on. So, you will have to do a research project while in residency.

I have a friend in residency back this up too. Personally, I wanted to get some research experience on my CV. I have a ton of everything else. So, I am going to work on that during the semester. Plus, Psy research is cool to me.

I am one that doesnt care to kill myself in classes. I am more focused on Step 1 and just keeping a respectable GPA (> 3.0)

Come 2015 when the number of graduating medical students > number of residency positions, I wouldn't be surprised if EVERYTHING gets quite a bit more competitive.

 

[jerseytrash]

For some fields, research will not make or break you actually matching into that field. i.e. for IM, you do not have to have hefty research creds in order to match. However, it definitely is a consideration if you want to shoot for the top of the top tier programs (particularly ones which put stronger emphasis on it, like the Harvard trio). This same applies for peds, general surgery, psychiatry, etc.

For other fields, it's probably necessary to remain competitive enough in order to match your chosen field - particularly surgical subspecialties like ortho, ENT, neurosurgery, urology, etc. It's a tossup for anesthesia as I know folks who've matched without anything, and for rads it's preferred I think.

Now as someone mentioned earlier if you are interested in fellowship doing research during residency is an almost must for the competitive fields (like peds H/O, adult H/O, cardiology, gastroenterology, even pulm/CC if you want to go to a decent program) although usually it's a lot easier to get something accomplished via a clinical project.

 

[Imogen]

I was talking with the head of our Psy department and she informed me that all residencies will require significant research experience this yr on. So, you will have to do a research project while in residency.

I have a friend in residency back this up too. Personally, I wanted to get some research experience on my CV. I have a ton of everything else. So, I am going to work on that during the semester. Plus, Psy research is cool to me.

Really? All residencies? This is definitely not the info I'm getting from my school. It literally says in our guide book "many students do research but don't feel like you have to do it if it's not your thing."

Darn it I hate it when SDN and real-world advice conflict. 😡

Also now I'm freaked out. How do you all find the time to do research alongside classes?! I mean, I worked full time for about 6 months doing research before med school and not only did I never really understand the details of our project (I basically felt like a glorified lab tech), but I also never got a pub out of that!

 

[tiedyeddog]

Really? All residencies? This is definitely not the info I'm getting from my school. It literally says in our guide book "many students do research but don't feel like you have to do it if it's not your thing."

Darn it I hate it when SDN and real-world advice conflict. 😡

Also now I'm freaked out. How do you all find the time to do research alongside classes?! I mean, I worked full time for about 6 months doing research before med school and not only did I never really understand the details of our project (I basically felt like a glorified lab tech), but I also never got a pub out of that!

Don't stress. Many of the publications people have are related to clinical research, not basic research. The time needed to be invested for clinical research is far less than what is required for basic research.

If you want to do basic research is possible. I have two basic research pubs as a new third year and a review article. If you put in the work and get a little lucky it will work out.

You need to remember that the general consensus is that in rank of importance it goes like this: step 1 score>3rd year grades>research = AOA. You really need to focus on the first two. Research is kind of like the cream on top.

 

[operaman]

Yes, you need it. Period.

Unless you want a craptastic program in the least desirable specialty and location, you gotta do it.


But it's not just to pad the CV. That's a piece of it, but there's more.

Clinical research puts you in touch with the attendings and residents in your desired specialty early on, and in a capacity where you can really shine unless you're a total nitwit. The value of the networking can't be overstated, and it all but guarantees an extra paragraph or two on an LOR.

You'll also show program directors in any field that you are a self starter, can work as a team, and that you can work on a project over time even when you're otherwise overworked and put out a viable product.

Finally, you may decide later on that you want a competitive field. If you have a few in mind, look for projects that overlap more than one. For now, just assume that all your other stats will be average (statistically speaking, this is true more or less), so do whatever you can to distinguish yourself.

Remember that anything you ultimately want to say about yourself must be backed up with proof. You say you want to help the underserved? Better have done some things to back this up, and not just popping in to your student clinic twice a year. Missions, volunteer, research on social determinants of health, research on the socioeconomic determinants of early readmission in your institution, outcomes of institutional projects to address these issues, etc. Whatever you want to say about yourself in the end, make sure your CV as a whole says it. Research in a given area can really help you do this.

 

[orthoengie1315]

I'm starting med school in a few days and I have a strong interest in heme/onc, immunology, and maybe ophtho. I did a tiny bit of research as a premed but garnered no pubs and frankly, I'm far more interested in clinical work than research in my future career. So my question is, do I have to do research in med school? Will residencies consider me less competitive for not doing any?

Do clinical research then, as opposed to basic science. It is much simpler to do retrospective analyses and get them out there (if they are significant and mean something, which plenty of them arent really...).

The super nice thing about research is that you will learn something you could never learn in the classroom, and being able to talk about that on an interview can sometimes help you stand out.

 

[evilbooyaa]

I was talking with the head of our Psy department and she informed me that all residencies will require significant research experience this yr on. So, you will have to do a research project while in residency.

I have a friend in residency back this up too. Personally, I wanted to get some research experience on my CV. I have a ton of everything else. So, I am going to work on that during the semester. Plus, Psy research is cool to me.

I am one that doesnt care to kill myself in classes. I am more focused on Step 1 and just keeping a respectable GPA (> 3.0)

If I'm interpreting your response correctly, you are not answering the question asked.

Doing research during residency is not the question here. The question is, "do you have to do research to get INTO a residency". I don't know how good your psych program is, but REQUIRING research to get into a psych residency must mean it's a pretty good one. One PD cannot speak for all PDs in a given field, let alone across multiple specialties.

 

[evilbooyaa]

Yes, you need it. Period.

Unless you want a craptastic program in the least desirable specialty and location, you gotta do it.


But it's not just to pad the CV. That's a piece of it, but there's more.

Clinical research puts you in touch with the attendings and residents in your desired specialty early on, and in a capacity where you can really shine unless you're a total nitwit. The value of the networking can't be overstated, and it all but guarantees an extra paragraph or two on an LOR.

You'll also show program directors in any field that you are a self starter, can work as a team, and that you can work on a project over time even when you're otherwise overworked and put out a viable product.

Finally, you may decide later on that you want a competitive field. If you have a few in mind, look for projects that overlap more than one. For now, just assume that all your other stats will be average (statistically speaking, this is true more or less), so do whatever you can to distinguish yourself.

Remember that anything you ultimately want to say about yourself must be backed up with proof. You say you want to help the underserved? Better have done some things to back this up, and not just popping in to your student clinic twice a year. Missions, volunteer, research on social determinants of health, research on the socioeconomic determinants of early readmission in your institution, outcomes of institutional projects to address these issues, etc. Whatever you want to say about yourself in the end, make sure your CV as a whole says it. Research in a given area can really help you do this.

While I do like most of this post, the first 2 lines are completely unnecessary. Standard SDN stuff.

However, the LoR you get from a research mentor (hopefully someone somewhat well known depending on your field and desired residency location) is generally pretty useful.

As stated above, it is not an absolute requirement, although it is recommended (or required) for the more competitive specialties and the more competitive residency spots (even in less competitive specialties).

 

[KnuxNole]

I could never do research, I HATE every second of it with a burning passion. I was glad I never had to touch it as a med student. Do you need it in general? Depends. The more competitive places like to see it. But, it's not a requirement for everything. Like others said, academic places emphasize those, and if you want to do research, jump into it!

 

[tiedyeddog]

I could never do research, I HATE every second of it with a burning passion. I was glad I never had to touch it as a med student. Do you need it in general? Depends. The more competitive places like to see it. But, it's not a requirement for everything. Like others said, academic places emphasize those, and if you want to do research, jump into it!

This is exactly right, imo.

If you want to go to an academic center that highly prizes research... then guess what, you have to prove you can do research. These places want to train physicians that will have some component of their careers be research focused.

If you absolutely hate research, why would you go to a place that values research so highly? You should instead focus on finding a residency that turns out great clinicians and stop being so focused on name-brand locations.

 

[jimmynthekudos]

One of our pathology professors was in the admissions committee for residency at Yale. He told me research is very important, but it should never be done if there's disinterest from the student. He also said this doesn't mean you should take your summer off. Research will always make your application stand out, but doing it just because everyone else is, the admissions committee will see right through that.

 

[Sheldor]

doing it just because everyone else is, the admissions committee will see right through that.

False. Publications are publications 🙂

The super short answer for IM is this: Willing to match anywhere? Don't need it.

Want to match to a highly ranked program? Need it.

In the middle is all shades, personally I'd rather have done a little but to strengthen my app, make connections and get a great personalized LOR.

 

[Frazier]

The only time you MUST do research in med school is if your medical school has a requirement for it... I don't know how many do. I do know that some of the T20 do require scholarly activity.

Of course, as the others alluded to, if you plan on going Derm, RadOnc, PRS, NeuroSurg, Opth, Uro, Ortho, or ENT...it is basically a "must" as well.

 

[notbobtrustme]

Come 2015 when the number of graduating medical students > number of residency positions, I wouldn't be surprised if EVERYTHING gets quite a bit more competitive.

That's only true if you lump in DO graduates into the ACGME system. For them, it'll get much more competitive. For most MD graduates, the competitiveness will increase only slightly.

 

[Ilovewater]

Yes, you will need to research to be competitive for ophtho. There have been people who matched without much research, but if you want to be competitive for "top-ranked" programs, research is definitely required. Very few ophtho programs are in community hospitals with most being at university hospitals.... They want to train physicians as well as scientists.

Even if you don't enjoy research, I'd still recommend getting some clinical research experience which is less time consuming than basic science research unless you are interested in specialties that aren't crazy about it.

 

[evilbooyaa]

False. Publications are publications 🙂

The super short answer for IM is this: Willing to match anywhere? Don't need it.

Want to match to a highly ranked program? Need it.

In the middle is all shades, personally I'd rather have done a little but to strengthen my app, make connections and get a great personalized LOR.

Agree with the bolded, as long as you can talk about your publications.

PDs always think they can "see through" those who didn't want to do research but did anyways just to look better. Neither I nor they have any evidence onto whether they can or not.

 

[starstarie]

So, a related question.

How imp is it that the research is in the field you want to go into?

I am a first year and honestly am not sure what I want to go into. I really want to keep as many doors open as possible (and thus want to get involved in research sooner rather than later). I kinda think I might really like urology (which I know is competitive) but I saw some interesting opportunities to do research in infertility.

If I end up liking urology (or any other highly competitive field) will the fact that I haven't networked in the field hurt me/ make the unrelated research insignificant and to what extent?

 

[Ilovewater]

So, a related question.

How imp is it that the research is in the field you want to go into?

I am a first year and honestly am not sure what I want to go into. I really want to keep as many doors open as possible (and thus want to get involved in research sooner rather than later). I kinda think I might really like urology (which I know is competitive) but I saw some interesting opportunities to do research in infertility.

If I end up liking urology (or any other highly competitive field) will the fact that I haven't networked in the field hurt me/ make the unrelated research insignificant and to what extent?

Having unrelated research is not a big deal because it shows that you are still interested in research. People change their mind about specialties all the time, so it's not uncommon.

However, urology is a small field, so networking is extremely important. If you think you might be interested in something super competitive, I'd recommend getting involved in research as early as possible to establish connections.

 

[evilbooyaa]

Research in a given field > Research in any field > No research.

If you're not sure what you want to do, do what seems the most interesting.

 

[yellowcocopuffs]

I'm really confused guys...
So, when can you do research if you don't do research between year 1 and year 2?
And what kind of research will be most effective for a medical student? Since we probably won't have the time to have committments necessary for successful involvement in bench research during the year?
How can we find research opportunities?

 

[tiedyeddog]

I'm really confused guys...
So, when can you do research if you don't do research between year 1 and year 2?
And what kind of research will be most effective for a medical student? Since we probably won't have the time to have committments necessary for successful involvement in bench research during the year?
How can we find research opportunities?

1. Do a search. This is discussed every year about this time.

2. Most medical students do clinical research not bench research.

3.most people do it between 1st and second year. I started during first year and am still doing bench research as a third year. There will be time.

4. If you are a starting first year you can avoid research for a few weeks, until you get the hang of the medical school pace. Maybe look for mentors in November and get started doing research in the spring.

5. Find mentors by googling the departments at your school and email PIs whose work you find interesting.

 

[starstarie]

To yellowcocopuffs,

I'm hoping to dedicate some time (shooting for 1-2 afternoons a week) during 1st yr instead for doing full time bt 1-2 yr. I may do something different then instead. I did research during undergrad this way, and it gave me a really nice balance. I didn't get all that much done, but it helped me get into it so I could continue for the next three years and summers, which also helped me develop a great long-term relationship with my pi (I still visit the lab when I can!)

1st yr is def a good time (at least in my school) to start research bc 2-3 yrs have a lot more time commitment with school related activities (lecture, etc.).

 

[thefritz]

I'm starting med school in a few days and I have a strong interest in heme/onc, immunology, and maybe ophtho. I did a tiny bit of research as a premed but garnered no pubs and frankly, I'm far more interested in clinical work than research in my future career. So my question is, do I have to do research in med school? Will residencies consider me less competitive for not doing any?

Spend your first two years preparing to kill step 1. Spend your third year preparing to kill step 2. Spend the first part of fourth year getting your names on a few papers now that you know what field you want to go into. Apply and win.

 

[001100010010011]

Is it imperative to show that publications were submitted during medical school? o you guys think that if you popped out a few papers in undergrad or before you matriculated to med school, you can just sit on them?

 

[tiedyeddog]

Is it imperative to show that publications were submitted during medical school? o you guys think that if you popped out a few papers in undergrad or before you matriculated to med school, you can just sit on them?

Publications before medical school look good but you should really try getting some during medical school. Pubs during medical school will likely look better than ones before, as a generality.

 

[jimmynthekudos]

False. Publications are publications 🙂

Did I say publications? I said research... Don't twist my words around. No they are not the same thing.

A publication means you achieved something great enough that the scientific community should know about.
Obviously it's going to be a big deal for big important residencies.

Many people do research without getting the chance to publish something.

 

[SilverCat]

During orientation, we had a pediatrician who's PD at our home pediatrics program say that research in pediatrics is a plus, but they don't look down on research in other fields. I don't know if this applies to all fields, though.

I hope I won't be in trouble if I start research during the MS1/MS2 summer, rather than during first year. Based on past experiences, I don't get much done when trying to juggle schoolwork and research, and I want to dedicate significant time to both. I feel a little nervous hearing about classmates starting research right away, though.

 

[tiedyeddog]

I hope I won't be in trouble if I start research during the MS1/MS2 summer, rather than during first year.

you won't get in trouble, don't worry about it.

 

[evilbooyaa]

False. Publications are publications 🙂

Did I say publications? I said research... Don't twist my words around. No they are not the same thing.

A publication means you achieved something great enough that the scientific community should know about.
Obviously it's going to be a big deal for big important residencies.

Many people do research without getting the chance to publish something.

Medical school research SHOULD equal pubs/abstracts/presentations. You shouldn't be doing research "for the experience" anymore.

 

[jimmynthekudos]

Medical school research SHOULD equal pubs/abstracts/presentations. You shouldn't be doing research "for the experience" anymore.

You said it friend, but the reality is a little different.

 

[kedrin]

Spend your first two years preparing to kill step 1. Spend your third year preparing to kill step 2. Spend the first part of fourth year getting your names on a few papers now that you know what field you want to go into. Apply and win.

Those must be some ****ty papers if you are able to hop on a project AND get it published in time for eras to make them count in the first part of fourth year where you should be focused on your audition rotations.

 

[tiedyeddog]

Those must be some ****ty papers if you are able to hop on a project AND get it published in time for eras to make them count in the first part of fourth year where you should be focused on your audition rotations.

Maybe a letter or communication?

Haha, I don't think waiting until 4th year to start research is a great idea but that is my personal opinion.

 

[Maddie90]

I've been told to not do research for the sake of doing it, but to find some sort of project that you are already passionate about and pursuing that.