My advice to pre-pharmers

Started by Somatic
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pharmschooler said:
Well, when you look at the competition... :laugh:
Heck, even some of my Republican friends are thinking of voting for Obama this time around...
Click to expand...

That is total BS! I have Democrat friends who swore not to vote for Obama the second time around.

Hope + Change = Higher gas prices (for all the pharmacist floaters) + Higher taxes (especially on a pharmacist's salary)
 
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SHC1984 said:
Have you looking into dentistry? I was originally in dental school for the $$$ and that profession pays VERY WELL. More than most people think! 😉 How about optometry? that's a field I wish I looked into...I think it pays the same as a pharmacist withOUT the saturation and maybe even less stressful too! How about PA? they are also in demand and only 2 years of schooling!!!
have you looking into BETTER options??? I recommend dentistry for anyone that want to make real $$$ without worrying about saturation or being replace by a robot! lol...
I hope this helps!
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Yeah I looked into dentistry but its hard for me to deal with bad breath and blood and gums and nasty looking teeth. PA doesn't pay well at all and if you want to talk about saturation, everyone and their mother is trying to be a PA because it is only 2 years. At least with pharm you weed out a lot of people because its 4 years. Optometry I think has already been debunked here as anything better.

The only other medical profession I looked into was AA (Anesthesiologist Assistant). You'd love it. There are only a few schools open, 2 years of graduate work, and its a new profession so its not saturated at all. You'll quickly find though, from what I've read, that despite all of that it is hard to find employment with that because it is so new and because they basically do what CRNA's do.

You're insane if you think that pharm was going to be a cake walk. Its a job like any other where you'll be competing with other candidates. Welcome to the real world! On top of that the economy is bad now and its not going to be bad forever. Baby boomers will be retiring soon and they are going to need their meds more than anyone. I see the job prospects of pharms as being excellent as can be for those reasons. The economy will get better and with that means expansion and more jobs. More old people = more demand for pharms. That automation bs.....there is no way, unless they get the T-1000, that a computer can take the place of a human in terms of advising old people how to take their meds. Not gonna happen.

So yeah I've looked at other careers in the health field and found that pharm is as good as any other and probably better in some cases. AA, the other one I looked at, is unsaturated, less schooling but because of those reasons harder to get a job in I think.
 
R2pharmD2 said:
Oh I know. It's just sort of insane, even at this ridiculously early point, that he's polling as well as he is.
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Don't read that much into these early polls they are about as useless as pharm doom and gloomers.

Obama gets a second term mainly because the GOP field is so weak. Just being against a guy is not enough...see Bush in 04. You have to have a reason to vote FOR someone not just against someone else and the GOP don't have that guy this year.
 
nyc76 said:
Don't read that much into these early polls they are about as useless as pharm doom and gloomers.

Obama gets a second term mainly because the GOP field is so weak. Just being against a guy is not enough...see Bush in 04. You have to have a reason to vote FOR someone not just against someone else and the GOP don't have that guy this year.
Click to expand...

That's a good analogy on the polls :laugh:

And you're probably right about the GOP field too. Then on top of the weak field, they're going to be sort of torn between courting the "tea party"/hardcore conservative vote and still pulling in enough moderates to be competitive. The major X factor is the economy though. If it fails to improve enough ("enough" being completely subjective here), all bets are off.
 
Re-election campaigns are essentially referendums on the first term. The economy starts actually picking up (and there's a full year to go before that "verdict" starts to come in), and Obama walks to victory, having "fixed the Bush recession." The economy stays stagnant, and Obama is slaughtered, having "sunk the economy."

There are other things that could happen between now and then, but the big thing is the pocketbook. Obama needs to get unemployment rates down further (the trend is in the right direction finally, but probably not fast enough to satisfy the center), else he'll be unemployed. Well, until he gets his own talk show, book tours, runs his own charitable organization, etc etc etc.

It _almost_ doesn't matter who the GOP nominates. It might make a small difference at the margins, but I don't see anyone being good enough to win the GOP primary and yet so repugnant that they can't beat Obama if the economy remains weak - nor anyone so awesome that they could beat Obama if the ecomomy seriously picks up.
 
trap said:
Re-election campaigns are essentially referendums on the first term. The economy starts actually picking up (and there's a full year to go before that "verdict" starts to come in), and Obama walks to victory, having "fixed the Bush recession." The economy stays stagnant, and Obama is slaughtered, having "sunk the economy."

There are other things that could happen between now and then, but the big thing is the pocketbook. Obama needs to get unemployment rates down further (the trend is in the right direction finally, but probably not fast enough to satisfy the center), else he'll be unemployed. Well, until he gets his own talk show, book tours, runs his own charitable organization, etc etc etc.

It _almost_ doesn't matter who the GOP nominates. It might make a small difference at the margins, but I don't see anyone being good enough to win the GOP primary and yet so repugnant that they can't beat Obama if the economy remains weak - nor anyone so awesome that they could beat Obama if the ecomomy seriously picks up.
Click to expand...

👍
 
I hate to beat the dead horse too, but I have to echo some of the sentiments of the OP (although I'll try to be less douchey about it).

Like the OP, I'm also graduating in a month or so. I don't have a job yet, but I am confident I will get one eventually. (And no, I don't expect everything handed to me on a silver platter.) I think that our class will be okay as far as being able to pay back loans, but I do worry about younger classes' ability to do so.

I think education in general is in a bubble that will burst at some point. Tuition loans are too easy to obtain. Colleges can charge students whatever they want, knowing the students will get their easy credit and pay. But eventually (much like the real estate bubble) too many students will default on their loans when they can't get return on their investment, and the lenders will go under and/or need to be bailed out. And I think pharmacy will definitely be a part of this.

We all know about the number of pharmacy schools opening and the huge amount of new pharmacists they're going to churn out. And yes, that will inevitably make our salaries go down and finding jobs more difficult/competitive. But I worry more about the future of retail pharmacy because of new technology and because of its dependence on arbitrary laws to prop it up.

I know state boards will work furiously to deem med vending machines unsafe for the public, but I feel like all it will take is one success. Also, a lot of meds that have been arbitrarily defined as prescription only could easily be switched to being arbitrarily defined as OTC - leading to less need for retail employees. Or laws could easily change to tech check tech work. Any of these things could happen. Are they likely? Probably not anytime soon (I'd say it's at least 5 to 10 years away, maybe more before any one happens), but it's enough to make the future very uncertain.

And yes, I know that the economy as a whole is awful. And the job market for all/most professions is equally bad. So what is my advice? Definitely don't go into pharmacy if you want to do retail pharmacy - it's far too uncertain. If you really like some other niche role in pharmacy, then I say go for it - just make sure you get experience in it while you're in school so you're competitive for the position when you get out.

I really don't know what else I'd advise people to go into if you're in the US. Our phony economy is going to continue crashing and our empire will finally come to an end. So I'm thinking about learning a foreign language, leaving the country, and teaching English. That's what I would do if I could do it all over again.

Sorry to pile on the doom and gloom, but I wish I would have had more perspectives before I started pharmacy school four years ago, so I thought I'd add mine.
 
HarcourtMonopol said:
I hate to beat the dead horse too, but I have to echo some of the sentiments of the OP (although I'll try to be less douchey about it).

Like the OP, I'm also graduating in a month or so. I don't have a job yet, but I am confident I will get one eventually. (And no, I don't expect everything handed to me on a silver platter.) I think that our class will be okay as far as being able to pay back loans, but I do worry about younger classes' ability to do so.

I think education in general is in a bubble that will burst at some point. Tuition loans are too easy to obtain. Colleges can charge students whatever they want, knowing the students will get their easy credit and pay. But eventually (much like the real estate bubble) too many students will default on their loans when they can't get return on their investment, and the lenders will go under and/or need to be bailed out. And I think pharmacy will definitely be a part of this.

We all know about the number of pharmacy schools opening and the huge amount of new pharmacists they're going to churn out. And yes, that will inevitably make our salaries go down and finding jobs more difficult/competitive. But I worry more about the future of retail pharmacy because of new technology and because of its dependence on arbitrary laws to prop it up.

I know state boards will work furiously to deem med vending machines unsafe for the public, but I feel like all it will take is one success. Also, a lot of meds that have been arbitrarily defined as prescription only could easily be switched to being arbitrarily defined as OTC - leading to less need for retail employees. Or laws could easily change to tech check tech work. Any of these things could happen. Are they likely? Probably not anytime soon (I'd say it's at least 5 to 10 years away, maybe more before any one happens), but it's enough to make the future very uncertain.

And yes, I know that the economy as a whole is awful. And the job market for all/most professions is equally bad. So what is my advice? Definitely don't go into pharmacy if you want to do retail pharmacy - it's far too uncertain. If you really like some other niche role in pharmacy, then I say go for it - just make sure you get experience in it while you're in school so you're competitive for the position when you get out.

I really don't know what else I'd advise people to go into if you're in the US. Our phony economy is going to continue crashing and our empire will finally come to an end. So I'm thinking about learning a foreign language, leaving the country, and teaching English. That's what I would do if I could do it all over again.

Sorry to pile on the doom and gloom, but I wish I would have had more perspectives before I started pharmacy school four years ago, so I thought I'd add mine.
Click to expand...

Thank you for your perspective on this. Did you really read all of the the previous posts??
 
I don't know how you can pick a single degree program and say that it will be the one to burst the bubble.

College is expensive and should primarily be observed as an investment. Even if you do not get the "American Dream" upon graduation, in the long run, your earning potential, and realized earnings are much greater than someone who does not pursue an advanced degree.

Otherwise I agree that the lending bubble is causing a strain, and the ability to repay is a challenge.

On a side note, people have been warning about the effects of global warning since the late 50's. So far the melting of the icecaps has not given me beachfront property here in Tennessee from a 2 degree rise in global temperatures. Do I think we are experiencing global warming. Yes, do I think it is related to population. Why yes I do. If there is so much greenhouse gasses, why do my houseplants keep dying, despite the proper water and sunlight they get. It should be a jungle out there.:laugh:
 
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nyc76 said:
Don't read that much into these early polls they are about as useless as pharm doom and gloomers.

Obama gets a second term mainly because the GOP field is so weak. Just being against a guy is not enough...see Bush in 04. You have to have a reason to vote FOR someone not just against someone else and the GOP don't have that guy this year.
Click to expand...

Anything can happen two years from now. Back in 2007, polls showed that it was going to be Hillary vs. Guiliani. In 2008, Obama emerged from total obscurity and won the party's nomination. Who would have known? I would have preferred Hillary vs. Guilinani (executive experience) over Obama vs. McCain (non-executive experience) anyday.
 
Passion4Sci said:
Donald Trump at POTUS? I'm moving to Germany.
Click to expand...

Economically speaking, Germany is doing better than the U.S. I do feel bad about Germany having to bail out Greece and other bankrupt European countries. Germany should have never joined the European union. Look at how weak the Euro dollar is. Unfortunately, the only way to become a German citizen is if either one of your parents is a German citizen.
 
nyc76 said:
Yeah I looked into dentistry but its hard for me to deal with bad breath and blood and gums and nasty looking teeth. PA doesn't pay well at all and if you want to talk about saturation, everyone and their mother is trying to be a PA because it is only 2 years. At least with pharm you weed out a lot of people because its 4 years. Optometry I think has already been debunked here as anything better.

The only other medical profession I looked into was AA (Anesthesiologist Assistant). You'd love it. There are only a few schools open, 2 years of graduate work, and its a new profession so its not saturated at all. You'll quickly find though, from what I've read, that despite all of that it is hard to find employment with that because it is so new and because they basically do what CRNA's do.

You're insane if you think that pharm was going to be a cake walk. Its a job like any other where you'll be competing with other candidates. Welcome to the real world! On top of that the economy is bad now and its not going to be bad forever. Baby boomers will be retiring soon and they are going to need their meds more than anyone. I see the job prospects of pharms as being excellent as can be for those reasons. The economy will get better and with that means expansion and more jobs. More old people = more demand for pharms. That automation bs.....there is no way, unless they get the T-1000, that a computer can take the place of a human in terms of advising old people how to take their meds. Not gonna happen.

So yeah I've looked at other careers in the health field and found that pharm is as good as any other and probably better in some cases. AA, the other one I looked at, is unsaturated, less schooling but because of those reasons harder to get a job in I think.
Click to expand...

How can you be so sure that the economy will get better? High deficit, high unemployment, high gas prices. Does that sound like our country is on its way to recovery? I wouldn't count my eggs before they hatch. Secondly, what we had was a financial disaster meaning that most of those jobs that were lost (manufacturing, construction) will never return.
The demand for pharmacists won't return. Many pharmacists that are old enough to retire aren't planning to retire. With new schools opening and class sizes increasing, there is an exponential growing number of new pharmacists. Say goodbye to pharmacists shortages.
 
trap said:
Re-election campaigns are essentially referendums on the first term. The economy starts actually picking up (and there's a full year to go before that "verdict" starts to come in), and Obama walks to victory, having "fixed the Bush recession." The economy stays stagnant, and Obama is slaughtered, having "sunk the economy."

There are other things that could happen between now and then, but the big thing is the pocketbook. Obama needs to get unemployment rates down further (the trend is in the right direction finally, but probably not fast enough to satisfy the center), else he'll be unemployed. Well, until he gets his own talk show, book tours, runs his own charitable organization, etc etc etc.

It _almost_ doesn't matter who the GOP nominates. It might make a small difference at the margins, but I don't see anyone being good enough to win the GOP primary and yet so repugnant that they can't beat Obama if the economy remains weak - nor anyone so awesome that they could beat Obama if the ecomomy seriously picks up.
Click to expand...

👍 Agreed! It completely depends on how the U.S. economy is doing in Fall of 2012.
 
HarcourtMonopol said:
I hate to beat the dead horse too, but I have to echo some of the sentiments of the OP (although I'll try to be less douchey about it).

Like the OP, I'm also graduating in a month or so. I don't have a job yet, but I am confident I will get one eventually. (And no, I don't expect everything handed to me on a silver platter.) I think that our class will be okay as far as being able to pay back loans, but I do worry about younger classes' ability to do so.

I think education in general is in a bubble that will burst at some point. Tuition loans are too easy to obtain. Colleges can charge students whatever they want, knowing the students will get their easy credit and pay. But eventually (much like the real estate bubble) too many students will default on their loans when they can't get return on their investment, and the lenders will go under and/or need to be bailed out. And I think pharmacy will definitely be a part of this.

We all know about the number of pharmacy schools opening and the huge amount of new pharmacists they're going to churn out. And yes, that will inevitably make our salaries go down and finding jobs more difficult/competitive. But I worry more about the future of retail pharmacy because of new technology and because of its dependence on arbitrary laws to prop it up.

I know state boards will work furiously to deem med vending machines unsafe for the public, but I feel like all it will take is one success. Also, a lot of meds that have been arbitrarily defined as prescription only could easily be switched to being arbitrarily defined as OTC - leading to less need for retail employees. Or laws could easily change to tech check tech work. Any of these things could happen. Are they likely? Probably not anytime soon (I'd say it's at least 5 to 10 years away, maybe more before any one happens), but it's enough to make the future very uncertain.

And yes, I know that the economy as a whole is awful. And the job market for all/most professions is equally bad. So what is my advice? Definitely don't go into pharmacy if you want to do retail pharmacy - it's far too uncertain. If you really like some other niche role in pharmacy, then I say go for it - just make sure you get experience in it while you're in school so you're competitive for the position when you get out.

I really don't know what else I'd advise people to go into if you're in the US. Our phony economy is going to continue crashing and our empire will finally come to an end. So I'm thinking about learning a foreign language, leaving the country, and teaching English. That's what I would do if I could do it all over again.

Sorry to pile on the doom and gloom, but I wish I would have had more perspectives before I started pharmacy school four years ago, so I thought I'd add mine.
Click to expand...

I certainly hope our country doesn't crash and burn. At this point in time, we can't deny the fact that it might become a reality. The U.S. dollar is dropping. We're having inflation because our bonehead government keeps printing out bills like there's no tomorrow. And now they want to raise the debt ceiling and raise taxes on us? We have loans to pay off. We studied hard just to get through four years of pharmacy school.
Retail pharmacy is barely hiring these days because the market is saturated and the companies are hurting. If you start pharm school today, you might as well make it to the top 10% of your class, be in Rho Chi, do a residency, and keep your fingers crossed that someone might hire you as a clinical pharmacist.
Anyways I hope you find a job soon. Some of my classmates are graduating next month with me, and they still haven't found a job. 🙁
 
rxstudent13 said:
How can you be so sure that the economy will get better? High deficit, high unemployment, high gas prices. Does that sound like our country is on its way to recovery? I wouldn't count my eggs before they hatch. Secondly, what we had was a financial disaster meaning that most of those jobs that were lost (manufacturing, construction) will never return.
The demand for pharmacists won't return. Many pharmacists that are old enough to retire aren't planning to retire. With new schools opening and class sizes increasing, there is an exponential growing number of new pharmacists. Say goodbye to pharmacists shortages.
Click to expand...

We've had high deficits and high gas prices even when the economy was great. And are you suggesting pharmacists will never retire? All they're doing is putting it off. They've gotta go sooner or later.
 
rxstudent13 said:
...there is an exponential growing number of new pharmacists. Say goodbye to pharmacists shortages.
Click to expand...

It is a pet peeve of mine when educated people misuse the term exponential. The number of new pharmacists does not approximate an exponential curve in any way. Does the number of new pharmacists double each year? Of course not, not even close. You could say "there is a growing number..." or "there is a concerning number..." or many other valid word choices. Exponential in not an appropriate word choice. A good rule of thumb is, anytime you want to use the word exponential, don't. In casual language it is almost never correct.
 
owlegrad said:
It is a pet peeve of mine when educated people misuse the term exponential. The number of new pharmacists does not approximate an exponential curve in any way. Does the number of new pharmacists double each year? Of course not, not even close. You could say "there is a growing number..." or "there is a concerning number..." or many other valid word choices. Exponential in not an appropriate word choice. A good rule of thumb is, anytime you want to use the word exponential, don't. In casual language it is almost never correct.
Click to expand...

My awesomeness has been growing exponentially. Seems appropriate...😀
 
rxstudent13 said:
I certainly hope our country doesn't crash and burn. At this point in time, we can't deny the fact that it might become a reality. The U.S. dollar is dropping. We're having inflation because our bonehead government keeps printing out bills like there's no tomorrow. And now they want to raise the debt ceiling and raise taxes on us? We have loans to pay off. We studied hard just to get through four years of pharmacy school.
Retail pharmacy is barely hiring these days because the market is saturated and the companies are hurting. If you start pharm school today, you might as well make it to the top 10% of your class, be in Rho Chi, do a residency, and keep your fingers crossed that someone might hire you as a clinical pharmacist.
Anyways I hope you find a job soon. Some of my classmates are graduating next month with me, and they still haven't found a job. 🙁
Click to expand...

You know there's parts of the world that their conditions are much much worse than here? We are kind of fortunate I think.
 
owlegrad said:
It is a pet peeve of mine when educated people misuse the term exponential. The number of new pharmacists does not approximate an exponential curve in any way. Does the number of new pharmacists double each year? Of course not, not even close. You could say "there is a growing number..." or "there is a concerning number..." or many other valid word choices. Exponential in not an appropriate word choice. A good rule of thumb is, anytime you want to use the word exponential, don't. In casual language it is almost never correct.
Click to expand...

Yeah. It's stupid hyperbole and I've seen a couple of people say it on here. 🙄

It doesn't really even mean doubling... it means that if there are 5000 pharmacists this year, there will be 5000^x pharmacists next year. So if x = 2 then OH ****! We're going to have 25,000,000 pharmacists next year. We're all doomed!!!

The constant misuse of statistics, exaggeration and just plain silliness on SDN is growing exponentially. That, my darlings, is a FACT. 😛
 
All4MyDaughter said:
Yeah. It's stupid hyperbole and I've seen a couple of people say it on here. 🙄

It doesn't really even mean doubling... it means that if there are 5000 pharmacists this year, there will be 5000^x pharmacists next year. So if x = 2 then OH ****! We're going to have 25,000,000 pharmacists next year. We're all doomed!!!

The constant misuse of statistics, exaggeration and just plain silliness on SDN is growing exponentially. That, my darlings, is a FACT. 😛
Click to expand...

Cute.

I like to using doubling because it is easy to understand and usually makes it simple to understand that whatever you are talking about couldn't be modeled by doubling. 2^x is the simplest exponential function I know and it's behaviour is modeled by doubling. You are right that it doesn't fit our current discussion though. My bad, I should have specified.

I wish we discussed math more often here on SDN. :meanie:
 
owlegrad said:
Cute.

I like to using doubling because it is easy to understand and usually makes it simple to understand that whatever you are talking about couldn't be modeled by doubling. 2^x is the simplest exponential function I know and it's behaviour is modeled by doubling. You are right that it doesn't fit our current discussion though. My bad, I should have specified.

I wish we discussed math more often here on SDN. :meanie:
Click to expand...

I knew what you meant. And because I am a nerd I figured out that 5000^1.1 is a bit more than double. But it's a moot point because the number of graduates is not even doubling annually. People be so silly!!! :laugh:
 
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My advice: Make friends with people already in school who can help you study and tell you about instructors and courses, so it won't be a shock when you're studying for the first exam and/or when you're taking that first exam.

Yeah I know the advice thing is old. But I don't want to go off-topic too much because we already have an OT thread.

And we all know how off-topic we can get and how quickly we can be having a discussion that was unexpected.
 
aznhomieboi1689 said:
So your friend who didn't go to college married a guy who made good money? And how do you relate this to your argument? you said that she didn't go to college and now she has a better life, but that doesn't say much because if she DIDN'T marry her husband, would she be in the same position (going on vacations, etc etc) while working at her parents' restaurant?

It's like saying "Just marry a rich guy and you'll be fine" but that doesn't work with your particular argument that college doesn't equate to better life. That's basically saying that "because you didn't go to college you should marry someone who makes good money".

Back on topic, I think what you are trying to say is that going to college/graduate school/professional school doesn't necessarily means you will have a better or easier life. If you do what you love (like your friend working at her parents' business) you will have the better life, in my opinion. Going to school for purely monetary reasons is no way to go.

On the side note, I'm sorry about you making the decision and regretting it. Perhaps there will be an opportunity in the future that will make it all better somehow. Also, even though I'm younger than you, I do not think 29 is old at all (so don't be so negative!! 😉 )
Click to expand...

I agree! Keep your head up and dont be so negative! When I graduate I will be 30, not almost 30!!!! I see women have kids in their 30s all the time, I am sure you do too. Don't let your fears discourage you please.
 
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NaOH said:
Not being able to find a jeorb.
Click to expand...

If you know enough people and are on good terms with them, they'll tell you enough things to help you find one.

Sometimes that does mean you're gonna work in a small town. Working in a small town doesn't mean it's the end of the world.
 
R2pharmD2 said:
We've had high deficits and high gas prices even when the economy was great. And are you suggesting pharmacists will never retire? All they're doing is putting it off. They've gotta go sooner or later.
Click to expand...

Then I suppose gas for $4/gallon doesn't come off as a shocker to you? People raised hell on Bush when gas hit $3/gallon.

Pharmacy is one of those careers where you don't have to retire at 65 if you don't want to. My medicine preceptor (a hospital pharmacist) is in his 60's, and he doesn't ever plan on retiring. That's kind of mean when you say that "they've gotta go sooner or later." What do you expect him to do? Kick the bucket? He's very intelligent and has a sharp mind. He loves what he does, and that's why he doesn't ever plan on retiring. There are pharmacists who are in their 80's who are still working. In fact, I met one of them when I had a rotation at Costco pharmacy.
 
rxstudent13 said:
Then I suppose gas for $4/gallon doesn't come off as a shocker to you? People raised hell on Bush when gas hit $3/gallon.

Pharmacy is one of those careers where you don't have to retire at 65 if you don't want to. My medicine preceptor (a hospital pharmacist) is in his 60's, and he doesn't ever plan on retiring. That's kind of mean when you say that "they've gotta go sooner or later." What do you expect him to do? Kick the bucket? He's very intelligent and has a sharp mind. He loves what he does, and that's why he doesn't ever plan on retiring. There are pharmacists who are in their 80's who are still working. In fact, I met one of them when I had a rotation at Costco pharmacy.
Click to expand...

Well the average life expectancy for males is 70. So he is close to it. LOL.....You can work till you die I guess is what he is saying. I personally prefer retiring ASAP. My preceptor was suppose to retire at 40 but since the economy when down he will retire at 43 instead.
 
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