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My advice to pre-pharmers

Discussion in 'Pre-Pharmacy' started by Somatic, Mar 23, 2011.

  1. All4MyDaughter

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    I don't think there are THAT many mail order jobs you can do from home anyway. The ones I know of require public contact via the telephone. Maybe there are others.
     
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  3. aznhomieboi1689

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    Then perhaps you should have stayed in dentistry. :/ I wonder what your professors will think about your comments/thoughts on pharmacy.
     
  4. SHC1984

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    When have I bashed a pharmacist or the profession? I have bashed the job market, the high tuition, the intense amount of time required to finish the degree and the lack of jobs. But when have I bashed the job itself? I say it's an okay job. How is that bashing?

    REFUSE to hear your argument? what is your arguement? I am listening.
     
  5. SHC1984

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    My professor told me she has a friend that is a pharmacist that works at home writing drug protocols. She told me it is possible to find a work at home job, I just have to work for it. She told me to contact her friend. Not everyone likes the public...why is that surprising? :confused: All the retail pharmacists that I worked for have told me they hated it sometimes.

    I would do dentistry if they give me an Ortho residency. ;)
     
  6. SHC1984

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    There are work at home mail order jobs...but they are rare! I know a pharmacist on here with the username forgetmenot that is a work at home mail order pharmacist. I also know one in real life...so just two so far. LOL...
     
  7. chemguy79

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    It's not surprising that there are people who dislike working with the public. However, choosing to work in HEALTHCARE when you dislike working with the public is a career FAIL. *shrug* I think that people who go into healthcare have a basic understanding that you will work with people.

    Speaking from experience, I had patients and customers who I despised working with; However, there were more than enough people who make me feel blessed to work in the field.

    Is it possible to find a work at home job in pharmacy? Sure, but is it very common ... Not so much. Furthermore, are you going to work in retail until you find one of those positions?

    If you want to do an Ortho residency, there is another sector of the medical profession that you haven't tried called medical school (DO or MD) ... :D
     
  8. Adaggiote

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    After this thread, I think I am sticking to medicine.
     
  9. SHC1984

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    I would LOVE to work at home in pharmacy. I don't mind working as a staff hospital pharmacist either or retail pharmacist if it's a fairly slow store. I don't HATE the public. But if I had the choice I would rather not work with them. I don't HATE them though. They are okay. Work in general is okay. I am sure YOU and ME both prefer NOT to work if we didn't have to! But obviously we weren't born that rich! :laugh: I don't HATE work...but YOU and I both know if we didn't have to work, we would NOT work. Goes the same for ANYONE on here.

    Orthodontist does braces...I went to dental school for that. It's very competitive though and I do not want to take out that much loans for dental school, ortho residency and to built my own practice. That just sounds like too much work for me. Work at home job sounds much better! :laugh:

    Medical school? I have the grades and MCAT score for it...but I really do not like it. Radiology would be the ONLY thing I would do if I could do it...and that field doesn't involve much patient contact either. But I am getting old and that field requires many more years to add on to that....I rather marry a doctor than be one. To be quite honest. :laugh:
     
  10. SHC1984

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    Go for Radiology! ;)
     
  11. 2411t

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    Can anyone read this without either getting annoyed/a headache?

    I had to go into the quoted and delete the excessive use of :smuggrin::laugh::love::D down to 10 for pete's sake.
     
  12. aznhomieboi1689

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    It seems like someone has been given everything in a silver platter all her life. Grow up.
     
  13. 2411t

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    SHC's comments come off as pretentious, and if she doesn't know this, I can understand why she doesn't like people seeing how she lacks awareness of social cues.
     
  14. SHC1984

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    Huh? My comments on here are regarding the pharmacy job market and how it will look in the future. I am also giving my opinion to pre-pharmers about whether it is even worth pursuing pharmacy or not. Not sure how that got to do with me personally. The market for pharmacy is the way it is. If I can't sugarcoat things the way you like it then that's just too bad. Why do people always have to complain when they don't hear a opinion that they like?

    I won't say everything. If I can get everything that I want, I wouldn't be in pharmacy school right now. I would be doing one of the amazing careers that I listed a few posts back. :laugh:
     
  15. 2411t

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  16. aznhomieboi1689

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    How many times do we have to tell you? We KNOW about the job market and how it is. But you repeatedly refuse to listen to us when we say it's a common thing for most professions in this type of economy. I think you believe that once you become a pharmacist, everything (ie. job offers) should come to you on a silver platter (which I believe was how it has been all your life right?) The fact is, even though you graduate as a pharmacist, or in any other career, hard work is needed to get that dream job. You will have to go through life and learn how to work hard towards that goal and compete in this economy. That is how I was raised. And no your comments are just not limited to pharmacy. You come here and whine, whine, whine about how your life is so horrible and how you don't like the job market in pharmacy. You believe you chose the wrong profession and could not care if you even become a pharmacist or not. You only think of it as a job. That's really an insult to me. If you don't have the passion for pharmacy, please quit.

    @Second bolded statement
    I hope that's a joke. Right? This proves that you need to grow up.
     
    #565 aznhomieboi1689, Apr 11, 2011
    Last edited: Apr 11, 2011
  17. Citamos

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    Woah dude seriously you need to watch how you talk to her! She is right on man. Pharmacy is not a good field to go into anymore. Seriously...
     
  18. Citamos

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  19. SHC1984

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    I know what you guys are saying. I am listening. What I am saying is that the pharmacy profession is the way it is now b/c of 1) too many schools have opened up, pumping out way too many graduates...more graduates than there are jobs. 2) Retail chains have reach their desire number of stores and therefore most retail chains have stop their expansion b/c they have reached their goals. 3) People are not retiring b/c of the economy and 4) advance in technology and automations have made things more efficient and therefore there are less need for pharmacists to dispense.

    Reasons 1) and 2) are the MAIN reasons why the pharmacy profession is going down hill. When there were less schools the demand=supply b/c just enough graduates are coming out to fill the number of opened positions. Now that there are just too many schools out...more people are graduating and the amount of jobs stay the same...so some people will be unemployed. Reason 2) is also a main reason b/c the reason why pharmacists are paid six figures was b/c retail chains was expanding back then and they needed pharmacists to fill those positions. Now that the retail chains have reach their desired amount of stores, they have decided to stop exanding and therefore NO more jobs are being produced.

    Those are the MAIN reasons why pharmacy is lacking jobs right now. It has very little to do with the "bad" economy. I would even say...if there were only 1 pharmacy school PER state (like it should be!) then I guarantee we WOULD NOT have this problem right now. If there were just one school per state then everyone right now would not have to worry about not finding a job. It's the fact that there are too many schools, too many graduates and just not enough jobs to go around...THATS THE PROBLEM. So please do not blame the economy. Number of schools opening up has NOTHING to do with the economy. Even if the economy gets better there are still TOO many graduates and not enough jobs. It has nothing to do with the economy.

    Reasons 3) and 4) are also affecting the pharmacy market, but reasons 1) and 2) are the MAIN reason and if you can't find a job it's because of reasons 1) and 2). And reasons 1) and 2) WILL NOT BE FIXED WITH THE ECONOMY. I am sorry but the number of graduates will not magically DECREASE b/c the economy got better! that's just won't happen! lol...

    I would love to quit if you can hook me up with one of those amazing jobs that I described earlier! Trust me, if I can land one of those jobs...I will quit faster than you can blink.
     
    #568 SHC1984, Apr 12, 2011
    Last edited: Apr 12, 2011
  20. All4MyDaughter

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    SHC, you're mistaken on a number of points. First of all, enrollment in educational programs ALWAYS expands in depressed economic conditions. Look it up. It's a historical fact. Second, the chains didn't stop expanding because they reached their magical "desired number of stores." Business in general doesn't expand as much in a bad economy. I guarantee you that no Walgreens executive woke up and said, "Hey! We FINALLY have enough stores! We can stop now!" because that is not the way business works.

    Where do you get this stuff? Honestly.
     
  21. SHC1984

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    Yes, but the fact that they have expanded and there are too many schools opened and too many graduates out etc. that's a fact. Let me ask you this...will the economy getting better DECREASE the amount of graduates being pumped out? Will all these schools all magically diasppear if the economy got better? Will all these new graduates all magically disappear if the economy got better?

    I don't think so...I don't think schools and new graduates will all just diappear if the economy got better!:laugh: So even if the economy gets better there will still be all these new graduates OUT and looking for the very limited number of jobs out there.

    Can someone please explain how new graduates will all just disappear when the economy gets better?

    Lastly, there are limited amount of land space in this country, in this world. These retail chains will have to stop at a point. They can NOT keep on builting an infinite amount of stores...there is a LIMIT in the amount of land space we have. So therefore there is a LIMIT in the amount of stores (jobs) out there. Land space won't increase just because the economy got better.

    Unless the economy can magically make land space in this world INCREASE and make new graduates DECREASE, I do not see how the economy will help in this situation!
     
  22. 2411t

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    I think you're overestimating the affect the new pharmacy schools have on YOUR chances of landing a job; this of course is assuming you go to a reputable school. Now more than ever, I'm pretty sure that employers are wary of hiring PharmD's from newer schools, so although there are more schools, it's affect is not generalized to the entire PharmD population.

    Someone please chime in as I was using simple rationalization, and not necessarily empirical data.
     
    #571 2411t, Apr 12, 2011
    Last edited: Apr 12, 2011
  23. All4MyDaughter

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    It is possible that the number of new graduates will decrease due to market forces and supply/demand principles. This has been discussed ENDLESSLY on the forum. Try searching.

    I was just disputing your contention that increased enrollment and slowed retail expansion have NOTHING to do with the economy. They ARE linked to the economy. In fact, I'd say the current lack of retail expansion has EVERYTHING to do with the economy and nothing to do with your (made up) idea that the chains have "met their goals" or that there is "no more land" to expand. :laugh:
     
  24. Passion4Sci

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    Just would like you all to know that CVS opened two stores yesterday (Well, within the last week) in good ol' Gotham City. I took pictures of them in case anyone thought that it's impossible for new pharmacy jobs to open up, and yes, they did/are hiring a fresh batch of pharmacists (Mostly UoP grads, as it should be...)

    SHC is really hot, therefore you should discount what she says by about 45%. :D
     
  25. All4MyDaughter

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    At least you admit that you have no empirical data. Why would employers be "weary" of hiring graduates from newer schools? Or did you mean wary?

    If you meant wary, I'd say that employers are wary of hiring anyone without some sort of prior knowledge of how that person will perform. So if the student from the new school has worked for that employer for years or did rotations there, they will probably be on equal footing for hiring, assuming their performance has been adequate. Likewise, a student from an established school with NO experience and no connections is going to have trouble securing a job. I think the days of finding a job based solely on "school reputation" are over.
     
  26. SHC1984

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    I hope I am overestimating. The numbers are there though...the number of graduates exceed the number of jobs for sure. So SOME people will be unemployed due to just looking at simple numbers.

    My school is ranked #30 in the country. It's not the best, but it's not the worst either. I didn't want to wait another year to apply to my state school which is ranked #2.

    I agree with you that the school's rep is important. I hope it will help weed out people. SOMETHING is needed to help weed out people...there are just too MANY people and not enough jobs. That's just numbers I am saying...nothing to argue about.
     
  27. 2411t

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    Edited previous post according
     
  28. SHC1984

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    Fair enough...retail stop exanding b/c of economy and I would say land space is one factor too...I mean how can people just keep on builting stores and not account for space? But yes, economy has a thing to do with it.

    HOWEVER, the number of graduates that ARE ALREADY IN SCHOOL will all still be in school and will ALL GRADUATE. Yes, in the future less people could apply for schools, BUT RIGHT NOW the number of students in school are already enough to saturate the country.

    So how can we DECREASE the amount of graduates that are already in schools and that WILL graduate?

    You can't stop something if it's already done. What r we going to do will ALL the people that are already in school and will be graduating? There are more graduates than jobs. What can we do?
     
  29. All4MyDaughter

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    If you're editing, check your use of affect/effect as well. So what do you think of my contention that work experience, connections and job performance (either paid or rotations) are more important than the name of the school students graduate from? I go to a new school and we fared very well in the residency match and those students who have longstanding relationships with employers are getting hired without too much trouble.

    It's the students who piddled around and didn't work much of anywhere while in school and have no real experience in the field who are having trouble finding jobs. I think that's true of graduates of established programs as well.
     
  30. SHC1984

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    Most people that don't know me always assume that I just party and go shopping everyday and don't know what I am talking about. :rolleyes: NOT TRUE!!!!!!
     
  31. 2411t

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    But wouldn't you agree that established schools have a stronger and larger network than newer schools, which in turn would be a significant factor when comparing the unemployment rate of graduates from newer schools v. established schools?

    EDIT: to let All4MyDaughter know that I'm sick of editing.
     
    #580 2411t, Apr 12, 2011
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  32. 2411t

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    I do think that your points are valid, but it's tough to say how these newer schools compare against those established schools without empirical evidence (BTW, is there any?)

    I'd like to add that during my interview at Univ. of Washington, I think my interviewers mentioned that 30%(?) of the graduating class went for residencies/fellowships and they all matched. Now... didn't over 50% of people trying to get residencies NOT match? It would be interesting to see the background of those who didn't.
     
  33. All4MyDaughter

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    :shrug: about the editing. When your incorrect word choice hinders others' understanding of what you're trying to say, you should probably be more careful. I've been on rotations with someone who failed the rotation because of inability to communicate effectively.

    I do agree with you that "alumni network" may be a factor. But it's definitely not the only factor and possibly not the deciding factor anymore. When jobs are scare (as they are right now) I believe employers are MORE likely to hire based on experience and prior knowledge of applicants and LESS likely to hire solely on school reputation.

    In theory, the larger network should allow students at established schools to more easily gain internships and make connections that will benefit them when they enter the workplace. In practice, we have numerous examples ON SDN of students who attend established schools who are unable to find internships or jobs. Most of them entered the field without significant experience or personal connections.
     
  34. Farmacist2011

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    Even if someone can't find a job after graduating, it's not if they will never find a job. Does anyone know anyone who graduated and never found a job and was never able to work as a pharmacist?
     
  35. All4MyDaughter

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    I don't think this type of data exists. It's all anecdotal as far as I know. At my school (candidate status) about 20% of the class went for residencies and all but one or two matched. But one of the people who didn't match is a top student. She just concentrated too heavily on big name programs and didn't apply to enough safety programs. And she was going ONLY for spots in a highly specialized field.

    I agree it would be interesting to see some profile data on unmatched students. I don't think ASHP tracks or releases that. I also think it's not as meaningful as you think. The match selects for highly qualified students but it also favors those who apply broadly. There is an element of luck that can't be quantified. I'd hazard a guess that a number of top students from top schools went unmatched because they focused only on HIGHLY competitive programs and the number of spots are limited. Many of those students probably scrambled into less competitive programs.

    I also don't think anyone tracks employment statistics post graduation. Or it may be tracked, but I've never seen a school-by-school analysis released. The only empiric measure we have to compare schools to each other at this point is NAPLEX pass rates, as far as I know.
     
  36. 2411t

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    About the editing, I'm pretty confident that no one would even know the difference b/t my use of effect v. affect and weary v. wary when spoken (they just sound too similiar). Now... although my grammar is far from perfect, and this is something I will fully admit, I am smart enough to not turn in any important document over without having it proofread by someone who's grammatical knowledge far exceeds mine.

    I think I've read a few anecdotes of individuals from reputable schools who have a hard time getting experience. The depressing part is that they are really trying to get experience.
     
  37. 2411t

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    I'm glad you mentioned the part about top students not matching b/c they didn't apply to safety programs... To be honest, although 4 years away, I am already planning on where I want to do my fellowship, and they are all extremely competitive. I'll keep applying for safety programs in mind.
     
  38. All4MyDaughter

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    Not that it matters, but the person who failed the rotation mostly failed due to inability to write cogent, effective patient notes and errors made in written communication with providers. The student's verbal communication sucked too, but that wasn't the sole issue.

    I think proofreading is great, but there often isn't opportunity to have someone else look at your work. In the VA's CPRS system, when you enter a note and sign it, it's done. You can't really go back and make changes. I've had to call residents and interns MANY times to ask them what they really meant in a note. It slows things down and impacts patient care. It gets tiresome. I honestly don't know why people aren't more careful with how they communicate. I hate to say it, but I think it's just pure laziness.
     
  39. Replacedbyrobot

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  40. Replacedbyrobot

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    Recently in Canada, laws were changed so a pharmacist does not have to be present for a rx to be dispensed.. This sets up the perfect scenario for vending machines to take over. I'm sure this will hit the US soon too :scared:
     
  41. 2411t

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    WTH... I don't understand why this would be done. Isn't one of technology's purpose to replace old jobs with new jobs (eg - Agents that support computers and networks have replaced typewriter repairman). I only see this destroying jobs.

    EDIT: was robots a troll? why banned?
     
    #590 2411t, Apr 12, 2011
    Last edited: Apr 12, 2011
  42. chemguy79

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    I'm also curious about this fact. Don't get me wrong; I KNOW that it's difficult to find a job in this economy. However, I wonder what % of people are finding immediately after graduation and more importantly, how long does it take for people to find a job if they don't have a job upon graduation? Are they moonlighting at different pharmacies, etc?
     
  43. chemguy79

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  44. Farmacist2011

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    So he's going to go from computer to computer at his library registering new accounts so he can post negative comments over and over again. Seems kind of rediculous and immature. :rolleyes:
     
  45. handletruth

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    Hey isn't this a violation of my privacy? Oh well IDC. Seriously guys I am concerned about TECHNOLOGY and its effect on pharmacy. You should be too. Well A4D keeps banning me cuz she hates me! Farewell friends. Good luck!!!!!!!!!!
     
  46. Farmacist2011

    Removed

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  47. All4MyDaughter

    All4MyDaughter SDN Mommystrator
    Pharmacist Moderator Emeritus Lifetime Donor Classifieds Approved 10+ Year Member

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    The proper abbreviation of my username is A4MD, not A4D. And I love all my SDN children, even the problem ones. :)
     
  48. aznhomieboi1689

    7+ Year Member

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    And as I said, you can't expect everything to be handed to you in a silver platter, therefore you don't have to be a pharmacist, work hard towards something else. The day is young. Anyways, I know there may be a lot of schools /graduates, but it's up to us grads to become more competitive and look for jobs (hunt for them!). There are many opportunities /jobs you can do with your PharmD!
     
  49. All4MyDaughter

    All4MyDaughter SDN Mommystrator
    Pharmacist Moderator Emeritus Lifetime Donor Classifieds Approved 10+ Year Member

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    But I *want* things handed to me on a silver platter. Preferably by a really hot guy with big muscles. Is this wrong? The top three things I'd like handed to me today include: cookies, bacon and filet mignon. But these things *might* just be pregnancy cravings and not related to anything else. :p:laugh:
     
  50. chemguy79

    chemguy79 New Member
    Moderator Emeritus 10+ Year Member

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    I was merely guessing that it was Somatic/Citamos, etc. I can't help it if I'm a genius. :D

    DUH, WINNING! :love:
     
  51. aznhomieboi1689

    7+ Year Member

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    lol, I was wondering about why they were banned, now I know :p.
     

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