My advice to pre-pharmers

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Could somebody just close this thread already? Seriously...I'm just not sure what else there is to say.

Seriously. All of the vital information :)rolleyes:) shared in this thread would still be accessible via the infinite majesty of the search function. At the very least we could move it to the sky is falling megathread.

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Seriously. All of vital information :)rolleyes:) shared in this thread would still be accessible via the infinite majesty of the search function. At the very least we could move it to the sky is falling megathread.

Since I'm just a greenie, the best I can do is report it to higher for discussion :) I will do so, however.
 
Oh I forgot to mention that many of the people in my class who did actually manage to get a pharmacy job, aren't even getting 40 hours a week so yeah...What a great field to go into! :rolleyes:
 
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I was just on here doing some reading and stumbled across this thread. Just felt the strong need to sign up and weigh in on the topic.

I'm not any kind of student yet, I attended a community college about 10 years ago. I earned about 40 credits and then my parents earned too much one year, I lost financial aid and that was the end of that. (Long story short, parents don't care about college and didn't support that at all)

When I lost my financial aid, I took the best job I could find at the moment. Disappointingly, it was an overnight stocking job at a Walmart. I started at $8.50 an hour and worked full time. Despite what you may hear about available benefits at Walmart, in all reality the 'health insurance' they have is not attainable for most employees. I had the health insurance plan back when you could still afford to pay for it out of your earnings and still have some take home pay. I broke my arm and had to pay $5000 out of pocket AFTER the insurance paid their measly portion. It would have cost me less to just go in without insurance and then I would have qualified for a payment plan. Because I had insurance, I didn't qualify for a payment plan with the hospital and they were threatening to send my account to collections if I didn't pay within 30 days. So, I put it on a credit card to preserve my credit.

Funny thing is, $5000 on a credit card when you only make about $15,000 in take home pay is a lot. While $5000 isn't much, fact of the matter is you already couldn't afford basic necessities like a car that functions and decent clothing to wear for interviews to try to get a better job.

Fast forward 7 years. Wow, now I'm making a whopping $12 an hour at Walmart as a middle manager. Any dreams of moving into upper management are gone because now they only hire college graduates for those positions with exception of a couple token employees so that they can still say they 'promote from within'.

That $5000 in credit card debt didn't go away. It slowly grew because just about no one can live on less than $20,000 a year. The only way it works is if nothing bad ever happens to you. That cheap beater car needs a new water pump, well, it goes on a card. Heating oil goes up in price, well, the thermostat's set at 40 degrees and you still can't afford that so it goes on a card.

Then, 3 years ago when it all started hitting the fan, I was laid off 2 days before Christmas with a bunch of other employees so that Walmart could boost 4th quarter numbers. I wasn't laid off by a person, I was randomly selected by a computer at corporate.

Interesting thing is, with the current economic state, Walmart has realized they can do better for their money. They have a new policy, if your laid off from or quit Walmart and come back more than 60 days later they can start you off at 'base rate' all over again.

I was called back to work 62 days later and offered my job back for $7.00 an hour. Yes, that's $1.50 less per hour than I started at 10 years ago. I walked out, but many of my old coworkers stayed and took the minimum wage offer.

I know this is a long story, but, I felt obligated to share it. To me, even if the standard retail pharmacists income drops to $60,000 per year it is still worth attending. Why? Heck, it's one of the few jobs that can't be outsourced.

My husband is a welder. Seven years ago he was earning $25 an hour. Today, he can't find a job for over $11 an hour because most manufacturing jobs have either outsourced to China or gone out of business completely. Even that measly $11 an hour job isn't a year round thing. They run out of contracts and he gets laid off and then called back. Last year he only worked 6 months of the year.

The only good thing to come of all of this is that there is a state university nearby with reasonable tuition and being completely impoverished means that you qualify for a lot more aid. My goal is to get into the pharmacy program. It probably won't happen, but, I'm working hard to try to get there. The only thing really in my favor is my 4.0 in high school and my 3.5 for the 40 hours I did in community college. I realize that's probably not enough.

I've submitted over 500 applications over the last 2 years and haven't even been able to find a minimum wage job. Before you assume that my work record must be terrible, I submit my 7 years of employment reviews that were all "exceeds expectations" and all my special letters from district managers and other higher ups when I won production awards.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that the job field is tough on pretty much every level. I doubt that there's really any profession at the moment that doesn't require a substantial amount of effort to land a job. Around here, nurses had spades of available sign on bonuses 10 years ago. But, recently the local hospital had to lay off nurses because they lost some funding. Nursing will probably be back in demand again at some point, but, really no one is in demand right now due to hiring freezes at many places.

Yes, education is expensive and nothing is guaranteed. But, pharmacy still seems like a very solid gamble. Didn't the length of time you had to attend increase in the last few years? I want to say that my cousin only has a bachelors in pharmacy and works as a pharmacist. It would seem like the length of time alone might be a discouragement.

Anyways, I'm not feeling very 'talked out of' pursuing pharmacy. What I was paying in interest on credit cards that I used to buy things like gas and food is still more than I would have been paying on a $100,000 student loan.

I guess on the bright side, I've gotten a lot better at living on nothing. We earned $12,000 last year, still managed to pay rent, paid off our ancient car and didn't use anything in the way of government assistance other than my husbands unemployment for when he was laid off.

So, yes, to someone like me, having to spend a while looking for a job, potentially having to relocate and having a student loan still really doesn't sound all that scary. My current reality is a lot scarier.

After my long stint in low paying retail the idea of retail pharmacy is not daunting at all.

I wish it couldn't be outsourced :rolleyes: Haven't you heard about all the issues with automation and technology greatly reducing the number of pharmacists needed???
 
I currently make 50k-75k a year as an R and D scientist/engineer. As innovative and dynamic as my job is, it is unfortunately very stressful. I grow weary of working 60-80 hour weeks during deadline months and missing entire weekends due to traveling. I see it getting better towards the end of my career, but I just graduated two years ago!!!!

Yes going to pharmacy school will decrease my network by 120-200k. However, seeing grateful patients that receive our products, and finding out how much I enjoy working with people, and realizing that I get along well with a plethora of coworkers from around the world - I have decided to go into pharmacy. Also, being active in my personal disease state management and following up closely with my doctor, really drives me into healthcare.

And realistically, 200k is not so bad. I already paid off my college debt and this is just the next thing before a house. Getting the education I want so I don't have to look back....Priceless.
 
Exactly, let me tell you something I graduated back in 2001 with a polsci degree cuz it was what interested me. I went to Boston College which is a pretty expensive school. I graduated and must've had at least 50k worth of loans and thats because I only went there 2 years..imagine had I done my entire 4 years there. So here I am 23, no job and I have these loans. Luckily I get a job in politics but despite what John Boehner (Speaker of the House) says government workers don't get paid a lot. I certainly didn't start out at 50k. In fact it took me 10 YEARS to get from 30 to 50. On top of that you have loans and soon enough car payment and mortgage. I'm living paycheck to paycheck making 50k not married no kids.

Luckily all my debt is just about to be wiped out so once I start pharm school Ill be debt free except for some recent school loans. But a couple years ago I decided to make a decision to either go long term in politics or do something else that makes money. I'm a bit of a science geek so I looked there and after much research I felt pharm was best for me. The prospect of making 100k is very appealing no matter how many loans I'll have because I've already lived 10 years not making anything close to 100k and having the same amount of debt.

You're a bit of a science geek and it took you that long to figure it out? If the prospect of pharmacy doesn't pay 100k and cause you to accrue a new 6 figure debt, would you still do it? Cuz by the time you finish pharm school, pharmacists most likely won't get paid 100k anymore. Don't forget to take into account that tuition increases every year. So if you don't mind being in debt for the rest of your life, you better have a good reason going to pharm school now.
 
Does anyone else think that Somatic is a spambot that has these pre-spliced "soundbites" that appear on SDN randomly after a certain number of posts are added to his thread?

Somatic's posts don't address anything that is actually in the thread nor do they make a great deal of sense. Moderators, I think that we have a spambot in our midst! If he starts posting about a Nigerian bank account, Russian mail order brides, or offers discounts on erectile dysfunction, don't say that I didn't warn you. :D

Absolutely not! =P He has every right to warn you before anyone else falls into the abyss of pharm school.
 
Did you even read the article you cited???

"With pharmacies on every corner and in supermarkets, Speck said he is not worried about finding work."

Given enough rope, many people will hang themselves with it. I guess you're one of those.

Did YOU read the entire article? =P Just because there are pharmacies at every corner doesn't exactly mean that they're hiring. =P =P

"The job market for pharmacists is not as strong as it has been, Knapp said. Fewer jobs and employees with health insurance has led to a decline in demand, she added."

 
Did YOU read the entire article? =P Just because there are pharmacies at every corner doesn't exactly mean that they're hiring. =P =P

"The job market for pharmacists is not as strong as it has been, Knapp said. Fewer jobs and employees with health insurance has led to a decline in demand, she added."

From that statement you some how conclude Touro graduates are having a hard time finding a job? She's making a generalized statement about the pharmacy field as a whole.

Based from your post history you're obviously a troll. You only participate in pharmacy over saturation discussions and the trolling of Loma Linda threads. Even though you deleted your old posts other posters quoted them.
 
What's the point of being a mod if you can't abuse your power? :D

Because she wants to continue to be a mod???

Empress "All for My Daughter", The United Nations of Moderators. Shape up or we will have a meeting, pass a resolution, and then send you a strongly worded, but essentially powerless, letter. :laugh:
 
Because she wants to continue to be a mod???

Empress "All for My Daughter", The United Nations of Moderators. Shape up or we will have a meeting, pass a resolution, and then send you a strongly worded, but essentially powerless, letter. :laugh:

I maintain that if you don't abuse your power, what's the point in continuing to be a mod? Now we are just going in circles. :laugh:
 
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You're a bit of a science geek and it took you that long to figure it out? If the prospect of pharmacy doesn't pay 100k and cause you to accrue a new 6 figure debt, would you still do it? Cuz by the time you finish pharm school, pharmacists most likely won't get paid 100k anymore. Don't forget to take into account that tuition increases every year. So if you don't mind being in debt for the rest of your life, you better have a good reason going to pharm school now.

What kind of question is that? No one would take on that kind of debt if it weren't for the earning potential. The fact is the reason people do go to law school or medical school or pharm school is because despite what people like you say the earning potential is still strong, the job outlook is excellent, and we aren't going to be in a recession forever.
 
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From that statement you some how conclude Touro graduates are having a hard time finding a job? She's making a generalized statement about the pharmacy field as a whole.

Based from your post history you're obviously a troll. You only participate in pharmacy over saturation discussions and the trolling of Loma Linda threads. Even though you deleted your old posts other posters quoted them.

Just because you don't like or agree with my posts doesn't automatically make me a troll. The same could be said for you.

Seems like the only thing that attracts pre-pharmers these days is the money. If it the profession doesn't pay as well as it does today, no one would go into it. Mark my word. The pay will go down. The tuition will go up. By the time you're almost done with pharm school, you will be worse off than I am now. You'll be even more upset and negative about pharmacy as a career than I am right now. The next thing you know, people will start calling you a troll by the time you try to share the truth about the pharmacy profession.

Let's face it. You're going to end up like us!
 
Wow! This is a really spiteful forum when soon-to-be pharmacists can't even voice their own opinions about the future of pharmacy without being attacked.
 
Pharmacy is far better off than most professions. I wonder what you people would be like if you had a real ****ty job, but don't worry I know your type. You people will bitch until you're 6 feet under and will still be in pharmacy because it's "too hard" to change careers, but you really want to "help" other people. God I'm sick of naive pharmacy students.
 
Wow! This is a really spiteful forum when soon-to-be pharmacists can't even voice their own opinions about the future of pharmacy without being attacked.

The problem is, there are opinions and there are facts. Unfortunatly, there is a lot of opinion that is getting stated as fact. THAT is where the conflict arrises.

If you were sold a bill of goods stating that you would have no trouble landing a position in a place of your choosing at a compensation level that somewhere in the neighborhood of 40% of the population will never achieve upon graduation. Well, then you are/were the naive person.

It is good to warn people that, yes this will be a competative market subject to market pressures. If there are 6 chairs at the table and 15 people, well, people are going to be left standing. You might have to look outside of the area to find a place to sit, which might not be the ideal position, but it can be a building block.

It used to be that when you started a career, you started at the bottom or towards the bottom. A college education gave you a head start which meant you did not start at the bottom of the food chain. Now, people graduate from college and expect to start at or near the top of their earning potential based off the fact that they are $$$ in debt from going to college.
 
Just because you don't like or agree with my posts doesn't automatically make me a troll. The same could be said for you.

Seems like the only thing that attracts pre-pharmers these days is the money. If it the profession doesn't pay as well as it does today, no one would go into it. Mark my word. The pay will go down. The tuition will go up. By the time you're almost done with pharm school, you will be worse off than I am now. You'll be even more upset and negative about pharmacy as a career than I am right now. The next thing you know, people will start calling you a troll by the time you try to share the truth about the pharmacy profession.

Let's face it. You're going to end up like us!

:thumbup: This is so true and should be so obvious to see! The people who graduated from pharmacy school when we were starting pharmacy school were better off than us. They paid less tuition, got sign on bonuses and a lot of opportunities for overtime were available. So they were able to pay their student loans off pretty quick. You could work anywhere you wanted and in pretty much any setting you wanted.

Now you have to be willing to move to anywhere you can actually find a job and many new graduates aren't even being offered 40 hours a week. We are already pretty much to the point where there are more pharmacists than there are jobs available. And it gets worse and worse every year. Last years graduates were better off than us and next years graduates will be worse off than us. I bet that soon it will get to the point that the new grads who actually do find jobs will only be offered PRN work or 20 hours/week or even less. Soon unemployed pharmacists will offer to work for a lower wage and lower wages will become the norm. Things don't just magically get better. Something drastic like reducing the current number of pharmacy schools to 50-70 max would be needed to ensure people entering pharmacy will have good prospects.

To all the pre-pharmers who actually end up going to pharm school, have fun defaulting on your student loans!
 
:thumbup: This is so true and should be so obvious to see! The people who graduated from pharmacy school when we were starting pharmacy school were better off than us. They paid less tuition, got sign on bonuses and a lot of opportunities for overtime were available. So they were able to pay their student loans off pretty quick. You could work anywhere you wanted and in pretty much any setting you wanted.

Now you have to be willing to move to anywhere you can actually find a job and many new graduates aren't even being offered 40 hours a week. We are already pretty much to the point where there are more pharmacists than there are jobs available. And it gets worse and worse every year. Last years graduates were better off than us and next years graduates will be worse off than us. I bet that soon it will get to the point that the new grads who actually do find jobs will only be offered PRN work or 20 hours/week or even less. Soon unemployed pharmacists will offer to work for a lower wage and lower wages will become the norm. Things don't just magically get better. Something drastic like reducing the current number of pharmacy schools to 50-70 max would be needed to ensure people entering pharmacy will have good prospects.

To all the pre-pharmers who actually end up going to pharm school, have fun defaulting on your student loans!

Stop trying to predict the future. No one can do it. I can't believe you actually fell for what a school told you. So naive. Have fun defaulting on your student loans.
 
Stop trying to predict the future. No one can do it. I can't believe you actually fell for what a school told you. So naive. Have fun defaulting on your student loans.

I will have my student loans paid off in a year because I didn't rack up 150k+ in student loans which seems to be pretty common now. It's not too hard to predict the future from simple economics and supply and demand. Things are bad now. How are they going to get better when only more and more graduates are being pumped out?
 
Please don't lie about how much student loan debt you have. And you WILL default or ar eyou still lying about already having a job lined up?
 
Please don't lie about how much student loan debt you have. And you WILL default or ar eyou still lying about already having a job lined up?

I promise that I am not lying. I have around 40k in student loans. I do have a job lined up paying ~ $58/hr in a metro area in a very saturated state. I had multiple job offers. Several people in my class have ZERO job offers
 
I promise that I am not lying. I have around 40k in student loans. I do have a job lined up paying ~ $58/hr in a metro area in a very saturated state. I had multiple job offers. Several people in my class have ZERO job offers

I don't believe you. You can't get a job in a very saturated state because there are no openings. Even if you do get a job, have fun with 200k in loan debt.
 
So job markets are not cyclical? It's just going to get worse and worse until there is no pharmacy profession anymore?

How do you default on student loans anyway?

Good thread.
 
Even when I was starting pharmacy school, I wouldn't have done it if I would have had to take out more than 50 k in student loans. Even back then I could see things getting worse and it would only be worth it if I could keep my debt at a minimum which I have done
 
I don't believe you. You can't get a job in a very saturated state because there are no openings. Even if you do get a job, have fun with 200k in loan debt.

Dude I am not lying!!!!!!!!!! I have 40 k in student loans and a job in a metro area!! Yes I am lucky but I also worked my ass off.
 
How hard do you have to work to get into a dipoma mill school?
 
I didn't go to a diploma mill school... I went to a very very good school... From what I've seen and from the people I know who went to diploma mills, you don't have to work too hard. Obviously since it's a diploma mill school, their students are of low quality so they have to lower the standards to ensure the students will go onto to the next year in order to continue to pay the school hefty tuition
 
Dude I am not lying!!!!!!!!!! I have 40 k in student loans and a job in a metro area!! Yes I am lucky but I also worked my ass off.
I'm not certain I'm willing to take you at your word, but I am curious about your debt load.

1. I imagine you worked quite a bit during your program. True?

2. Did you happen to attend one of the 3 or so incredibly cheap schools for in-state tuition, or did you have massive amounts of cash saved up and/or parents willing to help? Just curious. 40k sounds unbelievable otherwise.
 
I'm not certain I'm willing to take you at your word, but I am curious about your debt load.

1. I imagine you worked quite a bit during your program. True?

2. Did you happen to attend one of the 3 or so incredibly cheap schools for in-state tuition, or did you have massive amounts of cash saved up and/or parents willing to help? Just curious. 40k sounds unbelievable otherwise.

1. Yes I worked a lot during my program. I paid cash for my first year of pharmacy school because I worked for a year after completing my pre-reqs and starting pharm school. Also during the summer after P1 year, I worked a lot and saved up enough to pay for half of my P2 year. I started taking out loans the 2nd half of my P2 year. But I was able to work a lot in order to cover my living expenses and so I took out enough in student loans to just cover tuition.

2. I did pay resident tuition at a legit, public university. My parents didn't help at all to pay for my school. I am younger than 25 too btw
 
I paid cash for my first year of pharmacy school because I worked for a year after completing my pre-reqs and starting pharm school. My parents didn't help at all to pay for my school.

That is such BS. You have no credibility. Maybe I should work for another year to save up to pay for pharmacy school in cash and also pay my rent, food, car, and every other damn bill...
 
1. Yes I worked a lot during my program. I paid cash for my first year of pharmacy school because I worked for a year after completing my pre-reqs and starting pharm school. Also during the summer after P1 year, I worked a lot and saved up enough to pay for half of my P2 year. I started taking out loans the 2nd half of my P2 year. But I was able to work a lot in order to cover my living expenses and so I took out enough in student loans to just cover tuition.

2. I did pay resident tuition at a legit, public university. My parents didn't help at all to pay for my school. I am younger than 25 too btw
Sounds quite similar to my plan, though I'm not so sure about how much work to take on during the school year. I'd rather limit that number, but at the same time, work is a huge bonus in many more ways than just the monetary gain.

I guess I can't figure out how many hours you must have worked over the summer to cover half of your P2 year cost. Even at 80 hours/week, estimating a $12 / hr job for 4 months won't quite pay half of the in-state tuition for P2 here.
 
That is such BS. You have no credibility. Maybe I should work for another year to save up to pay for pharmacy school in cash and also pay my rent, food, car, and every other damn bill...

Why would I lie about this? I am being totally honest. My pharm school tuition for my P1 year back in 2007 was only about $13,000 for the whole year. I saved up $13,000 in addition to paying for living expenses by working 2 jobs.. Now tuition at my school for residents is closer to $20 k a year -shows you how much tuition can go up in 4 years.
 
I guess I can't figure out how many hours you must have worked over the summer to cover half of your P2 year cost. Even at 80 hours/week, estimating a $12 / hr job for 4 months won't quite pay half of the in-state tuition for P2 here.

And he had no parent support so with that job he was living completely self sufficient paying all his own bills (housing, food, EVERYTHING) plus he paid for half his P2 year. BS! God he must have had a 50K a year job and if so he should have stayed with it because by now with raises and bonuses he would be making 100K with no loan debt!
 
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Why would I lie about this? I am being totally honest. My pharm school tuition for my P1 year back in 2007 was only about $13,000 for the whole year. I saved up $13,000 in addition to paying for living expenses by working 2 jobs.. Now tuition at my school for residents is closer to $20 k a year -shows you how much tuition can go up in 4 years.
It's been going up ~8% every year recently (I believe this is common nationally). It's pretty easy to compound that 13k into a 20k at that rate.
 
And he had no parent support so with that job he was living completely self sufficient paying all his own bills (housing, food, EVERYTHING) plus he paid for half his P2 year. BS! God he must have had a 50K a year job and if so he should have stayed with it because by now with raises and bonuses he would be making 100K with no loan debt!

Well between working 2 jobs I was making about 50-60 k a year but I was also working 80+ hours a week and working 7 days a week so it definitely sucked
 
And he had no parent support so with that job he was living completely self sufficient paying all his own bills (housing, food, EVERYTHING) plus he paid for half his P2 year. BS! God he must have had a 50K a year job and if so he should have stayed with it because by now with raises and bonuses he would be making 100K with no loan debt!
I guess I can imagine the situation if perhaps he started out with a nest egg from his parents at an earlier point. It happens, y'know. It makes it much easier to save if you have a bunch of cash in stocks that are going up in value.
 
Oh and one of the jobs I was working laid everyone off to outsource to another country but luckily this happened just a few months before I started pharm school
 
I guess I can imagine the situation if perhaps he started out with a nest egg from his parents at an earlier point. It happens, y'know. It makes it much easier to save if you have a bunch of cash in stocks that are going up in value.

I did this all by myself! I had no stocks
 
I did this all by myself! I had no stocks
That's good and all, but I'm not saying that it's bad to start with stocks. I have investments that were originally started by family. I'm awfully glad I do; it's been a huge blessing and allowed me opportunities that wouldn't otherwise be there.
 
That's good and all, but I'm not saying that it's bad to start with stocks. I have investments that were originally started by family. I'm awfully glad I do; it's been a huge blessing and allowed me opportunities that wouldn't otherwise be there.

That's good. I would recommend keeping your loans at a minimum and working as much as you can during school but don't sacrifice your grades for work
 
Oh and don't go to a diploma mill school! I just don't see why anyone would do that unless they were still offering sign on bonuses and unlimited overtime. Those days are gone forever
 
Oh and don't go to a diploma mill school! I just don't see why anyone would do that unless they were still offering sign on bonuses and unlimited overtime. Those days are gone forever
I would never go to an unaccredited school. I'm only looking at my local public school. If I don't get in there, I'm not going.
 
I would never go to an unaccredited school. I'm only looking at my local public school. If I don't get in there, I'm not going.

There are still many accredited schools that are a joke. But yes I would never recommend anyone go to any school besides a public school these days. I wouldn't have gone to pharm school if I didn't get into a good public school where I could pay resident tuition
 
There are still many accredited schools that are a joke. But yes I would never recommend anyone go to any school besides a public school these days. I wouldn't have gone to pharm school if I didn't get into a good public school where I could pay resident tuition

So you think pharmacy school is a joke for most people??? :mad:
 
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