My parents are getting me a stethoscope for Xmas

This forum made possible through the generous support of SDN members, donors, and sponsors. Thank you.

Docgeorge

Bent Over and Violated
15+ Year Member
20+ Year Member
Joined
Apr 2, 2002
Messages
1,538
Reaction score
3
I talked to my parents today, and they told me they were getting a scope for christmas and asked me if I had a preference. I've played with some scopes and I think I like the Welsh Allyn Harvy DLX. The question is, do I get the two head or the three head?

Members don't see this ad.
 
The Harvey 3-headed scope? That's a medical oddity! You'd get stares from your peers and attendings. Don't stand out.

Seriously, though, I believe the Littmann Cardiology III is the most popular among medical students today. I've only seen PAs use Harveys, and who'd wanna be one of those guys? ;)

I personally would tell my parents to spend the money on a Playstation 2. A fancy stethoscope is just another thing to lose over the four years of med school, and you won't hear that murmur any better than the guy next to you using the el-cheapo Litmann costing $50.
 
Playstation 2? With my parents? These are the people who would'nt get me a nintendo 'cuz they thought it would rot my brain. Thanks for the advise though.
 
Members don't see this ad :)
Originally posted by Docgeorge
Playstation 2? With my parents? These are the people who would'nt get me a nintendo 'cuz they thought it would rot my brain. Thanks for the advise though.

How about asking for new parents for Christmas?

Get the money and get the PS2 -- May I suggest Grand Theft Auto 3 and the new Vice City?

As another poster said, the Littman Cardio III is the most popular. When compared to the HPs they Littman's sacrifice some clarity for loudness, but I'm so deaf, there wasn't much of a choice for me.

mike
 
Come on guy nobody else has any advise? You guys think I should just get the Littman Cardio III?
 
OK...here's the bottom line. Get whichever 'scope works best for you and is the most comfortable in your ears. Believe it or not, there is a difference in weight, feel of the earpieces and most importantly, the ability to pick up sounds which you and your brain can distinguish. Most stores should allow you to try them out - bring along a buddy and take a listen, let it hang around your neck (if you're going into a surgical specialty), clip it to your belt (if going into EM or Anesth) and stuff it into your pocket (and look at it curiously from time to time, if going into surgery ;) ).

However, I'm with Tim - an expensive scope with lots of fancy gizmos is overkill for most medical students; the propensity to lose them is probably proportional to the cost. But if I had to choose, I'd go with the Littman - traditional, workhorse and easier to find/locate repair than the Harvey or Heine brands.
 
Originally posted by mikecwru
Get the money and get the PS2 -- May I suggest Grand Theft Auto 3 and the new Vice City?

Just to go off topic for a second, Vice City is a lot like GTA3, so it gets old really fast. But I would still get one or the other as part of a starter kit for any new Playstation 2 system.

The other two games I'd get (and have): Dynasty Warriors 3 and Hitman 2. Good stuff. Thank God for Anesthesiology rotations. :D

Believe it or not, docgeorge, but there are those in healthcare who will try for five-fingered discounts when you least expect it. These could be doctors, nurses, other ancillary personnel, or yes, even your fellow medical students. It's sad to think that someone would stoop to this level, but it happens more often than you think.

Anyway in the typical hospital most med students and residents won't have any place to call their own, where they can keep their stuff out of view. There will be instances in which you'll leave your coat somewhere to do something where you can't, or don't want to, wear your coat (going to the ORs, for example) and in your right pocket will be your three-headed Harvey stethoscope that cost your parents a small fortune. The thief will probably pass over all the Littmanns and go for your odd-looking device. Heck, I remember when I first saw that Harvey scope. It caught my eye and I wanted it. Oh baby it was hard to not swipe it.

:)

And the two-headed Harvey's no better! The diaphragm side has a neat-looking hologram that reads "Welch-Allyn." It's pretty.

You'll notice when you get on the floor that most people carry a Littmann. There may be no reason for this other than damn good marketing, but if you learn anything in medicine it's to assimilate! You must buy a Littmann. Everyone has one. Why be different?
 
To respond to the inital poster's concerns, yes there are differences between scopes. Most physicians in North America choose from among the following:

Littmann:
- Cardiology III
- Master Cardiology

Welch-Allyn:
- Elite series
- Harvey series
*'Original' Harvey (available in double and triple heads)
*'DLX' (Modern) Harvey (also in double and triple heads)

Hewlett Packard/Agilent
- Rappaport-Sprague



The most popular brand is undoubtedly the the Littmann. The company has much greater marketing resources than the other two, and has captured the stethoscope market in many countries. Of course, no amount of marketing will sustain an inferior product - the Littmann's mentioned above are good. I have even used the Classic II (usually used by nurses), and find its auscultatory capabilities reasonable. However they are certainly not the best stethoscopes.

The stethoscope traditionally used by classically trained cardiologists is the Sprague, developed and introduced more than 45 years ago by HP. It is still considered by cardiologists to be the gold standard acoustic stethoscope, with an outstanding high to low range. The one downside of the Sprague in my opinion is the dual tubing ie. each earpiece is connected to the chestpeice by its own tube, and these two tubes are held together by metal clips. While this is supposed to improve the quality of sound transmission, the two tubes rub together, introducing artifacts. Your ability to use the Sprague is, initially, a function of how long you have used it. However, that being said, once you have learnt to recognize what is simply the tube sound, you'd be hard pressed to get better acoustics from any scope.

The Harvey scopes were designed many years ago by Dr. Watkins Proctor Harvey, a famous cardiologist, who studied under Sam Levine at the Brigham. The DLX is the modern version of the original Harvey scope. The beauty of the Harvey is the excellence in design - the tubing, the weight, material, size and design of the chestpieces, the bianurals, all engineered to produce an exceptional auscultation instrument. In addition to the usual two heads, the Harvey triple head has an additional corrugated diaphragm. This special diaphragm has two unique properties - it amplifies heart sounds, and is able to pick up the lowest frequency heart sounds that may be heard by the human ear (eg., diastolic gallops). The flat diaphragm 'specializes' in high frequencies, and the bell lower frequencies. The bell is also sized differently than in other stethoscopes - it will fit in the intercostal spaces and 'cups' over the carotid region in the neck and the eyelids. The weight of the chestpeice has been designed so that when using the corrugated diapghragm and the bell, simply placing the piece on the chest wall produces the correct amount of pressure to hear the lower frequencies. The modern Harvey also solves the problem of having individual tubing - there is one tubing that has a slplit lumen, each going to one earpiece. This eliminates the tubing problem of the Sprague.

As a medical student, I owned and used a Littmann. However, when that got lost, for a time I used a Sprague I'd borrow from my seniors (all Cardiology fellows, and many med residents, at my institution own Spragues). I felt this was definitely a superior scope. I now own a DLX, which in my personal opinion is the best acoustic scope out there.

The "traditional" scopes like the Sprague and the Harvey were built in an era when bedside diagnosis was of paramount importance in medicine. Even the fact that their capabilities are "split" (you MUST switch over to the bell to hear lower frequencies, and the diaphragm to hear higher ones) I feel has helped me over the years to sharpen my clinical skill - you are forced to learn and understand the characteristics of each murmur, gallop, HS, etc... where's the best place to look for them, how they sound, their frequencies, their timing, what accentuates the murmur. I've noticed people who use the Littman just use the flat d - the claim is the patented "Littmann diaphragm" automatically turns into a bell if you release pressure on it. This may be so on a brand new one, but I don't for a moment buy it on a scope more than 6 months old. I think this has lead to a certain laziness in many students - they don't take the trouble to properly learn cardiac sounds, and correlate what they learn in the books with what they hear in clinical practice. Because they don't hear much. Which in turn can discourage learning and correlating. It's a vicious cycle. It is not helped when they are taught by a generation of physicians who have themselves lost the art and skill of bedside diagnosis, and for whom the exam isn't important - only the thousand dollar test.

Bottom line: whatever stethoscope you buy, make sure 1. it works and fits your ears, 2. you practice and practice and practice. Read up before you go out on the wards, and always correlate.
 
Thanks for all of your advice guys. I wanted to tell my parents to wait untill I started med school so I can see what most people at my school used, but in the end I did'nt have the heart. I'm the first person in my immediate family to go to med school or even graduate high school for that matter. They were just so excited about buying the scope that I decided to let them buy my scope for me. We went to the local med school book store and bought my 1st scope. I ended up getting the Harvy two head, because I could hear the best out it, and because I felt the 3 head was just a little too odd looking. I also want to espically thank encpeh for his reply. Hopefully, I'll be able to put it to good use.

Mery Christmas (belated) and Happy New Year guys
 
Originally posted by Docgeorge
I'm the first person in my immediate family to go to med school or even graduate high school for that matter

Jesus, even I feel so proud of ya. :) Congratulations.

BTW, since you got a Harvery, Do NOT FORGET this piece of advice:

UNDER NO CIRCUMSTANCES whatsoever should you part with that scope while in school. It WILL be swiped. When you are on surgery, even if you are in the OR, take the scope in.
 
Enceph, thanks.

I have another question for you. Will engraveing my name on the bell and the biurnals (the ear pieces???) Hurt the scope any?
 
Is it really very important what stethoscope you use, expensive or not? When i listen to the patient and i can't recognize what do i hear, it is not the cause of my stethoscope. :)) It depends only on my experience and knowledge (unfortunately they are not very spacious). To tell the truth i often feel some problems with auscultation, especially when i am listening to the heart. Even when i know what sounds must be there, it is difficult enouph for me to separate them. So, this is my problem. Though i think a lot of students have these problems too. :) May be i have to practise more than i do.
 
I find it amusing that stethoscope shop-talk is taking place on the surgery forum, considering that I have rarely see a surgery attending with anything better than those FisherPrice looking pieces of crap that hang in the ICU's.
 
Elahuhu,
Ever since I saw my first surgery at the tender age of 15 I knew that this was the field that I wanted to go into. I wanna be a surgeon and I frequent this forum alot, so when I had a question I asked.
 
I thought it was pretty funny that this was in the surgery forum as well.

You can use any stethoscope to listen the the "triple point" most surgeons do. For those who don't know, this is a point just below the bottom edge of the sternum that allow an overworked surgery resident to hear the heart, lungs, and bowel sounds all at once. I've seen it used many times (mostly on stable post-op patients).

As for me, I'll be hanging my stethoscope on the wall after this year is over, never to be used again. :laugh:
 
Top