My SO doesn't want to relocate with me for residency

[AMEHigh]

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My partner and I have been together for almost 6 years, we own a house together and will hopefully have a kid together in the future. We have no plans to get married. That legal contract won't change our commitment towards each other, so it's not very important to us. If I were married I would still leave if things changed and he was no longer a good partner to me and I wasn't happy. Divorce isn't the end of the world.

I also agree with avoiding the financial/tax implications that come along with being married. Just like many things in life, maybe that'll change at some point in the future, but not anytime soon. Committed relationships and families can take all forms so I try not to judge other's choices.

 

[Dr.LeoSpaceman]

I also agree with avoiding the financial/tax implications that come along with being married.

Just for clarity, marriage is generally a net benefit when it comes to finances and taxes. However this thread has identified a situation where that may not be true: two people that have similar salaries which bumps them into a higher bracket. The realignment in 2017 improved that situation for lower income couples, but it's still an issue for couples where both are in the 33%+ brackets. But even if you are married, you can avoid this by filing separately. The reason the vast majority of couples don't do this is because "married filing jointly" saves the couple money as compared to "married filing separately".

That being said, it is (as others pointed out) a poor reason to get married. But it's also a somewhat lazy argument to use against getting married.

 

[GoSpursGo]

Because the "piece of paper" that makes things easier isn't worth the tax penalty. To me, at least.

We're both physicians, which makes us both "high earners" in the eyes of the IRS. If we get married and combine our income, we stand to pay a lot more in taxes. How much more depends on who controls the Senate, but it's not an inconsequential amount either way.

If we weren't physicians? Sure, I'd get married. Why not? It doesn't change anything.

The fight for marriage equality is different. Yes, it does make their lives easier (again, unless they're both high earners) but for LGBT people (and correct me if I'm wrong), the fight for marriage equality was to get societal recognition of their relationships. I'm a female in a heterosexual relationship; no one bats an eye if I introduce a male as my partner. Telling an EM physician or nurse that I'm his wife (even if that's not technically true) is easy; no one is going to make me go dig up a copy of my marriage license to prove it in the event of an emergency. That is NOT what happened to gay men and women in the past, so getting married was, for them, much more significant. Particularly as many families refused to acknowledge the long term boyfriend or girlfriend.

I really appreciate your perspective on this, smq.

But just to bring this back to the OP’s original situation, wouldn’t you agree that regardless of whether you define a committed relationship based on a piece of paper, it seems clear that the OP and SO are NOT in a committed relationship if they aren’t able to talk about these kinds of life-altering decisions explicitly before submitting a rank list? Surely part of what makes your relationship work is that you’re always able to align your goals in making Big Decisions. So, at the end of the day the bottom line seems to be that they don’t have the same long-term goals, and if they can’t be aligned that’s going to be a problem no matter how they choose to define their relationship moving forward.

 

[Raryn]

Just for clarity, marriage is generally a net benefit when it comes to finances and taxes. However this thread has identified a situation where that may not be true: two people that have similar salaries which bumps them into a higher bracket. The realignment in 2017 improved that situation for lower income couples, but it's still an issue for couples where both are in the 33%+ brackets. But even if you are married, you can avoid this by filing separately. The reason the vast majority of couples don't do this is because "married filing jointly" saves the couple money as compared to "married filing separately".

That being said, it is (as others pointed out) a poor reason to get married. But it's also a somewhat lazy argument to use against getting married.

The MFS brackets are different than the Single ones, and this is not true. The 37% tax bracket starts at $510k for a single person, but $612k for a married couple (not double like all the other brackets) and $311k for married filing separately. This is only an issue if the couple (together) make >$612k.

In addition (this is not a comprehensive list):

1) The additional medicare tax starts at $250k for a joint couple rather than $200k for an individual - which means that potentially up to an extra $150k is taxed there.
2) The $10k SALT deduction cap is the same whether you're single or MFJ, going down to $5k for MFS
3) Either both partners itemize or neither does - no way for one person to take the standard deduction. Two single people could group all tax deductions under one partner and have the other take the standard deduction.
4) There's weird stuff with HSA caps, particularly if you have kids. The joint HSA cap is exactly double the single one - but if you're both single and have family HDHPs, you might be able to get a "family" deduction for one person and a "single" for the other (leading to 1.5x higher HSA cap) or even sometimes "family" deductions for both single people (leading to 2x higher HSA caps).
5) There's even weirder stuff with how IBR interacts with incomes - this is the one situation MFS typically beats MFJ, but single would beat both.

For a couple who make total >$250k/year, particularly if they earn similar incomes to each other (rather than one high earner and one low/no earner), there is zero tax advantage to being married - and in fact there can be a significant tax penalty. Particularly if they have kids - if they were divorced on paper, one could file HOH with the kids, the other could file single, AND they could group all the itemizable stuff under one person and have the other take the standard deduction (or just both itemize - now with both being able to count $10k in state tax individually).

The people who get tax benefits from marriage are those who have disparate incomes - then the benefits are huge. For people who earn similar amounts, it's typically a wash - unless they're high earners.

It's not a big enough difference for most given the other gazillion benefits of marriage... but it's certainly a consideration.

 

[AMEHigh]

Just for clarity, marriage is generally a net benefit when it comes to finances and taxes. However this thread has identified a situation where that may not be true: two people that have similar salaries which bumps them into a higher bracket. The realignment in 2017 improved that situation for lower income couples, but it's still an issue for couples where both are in the 33%+ brackets. But even if you are married, you can avoid this by filing separately. The reason the vast majority of couples don't do this is because "married filing jointly" saves the couple money as compared to "married filing separately".

That being said, it is (as others pointed out) a poor reason to get married. But it's also a somewhat lazy argument to use against getting married.

Sorry I was talking about my specific situation. Not going to go in to details, but from a financial point of view it makes sense for us to stay single. We work with the same accountant whom specializes in what my partner does, so have figured this out and no it's not us being lazy. It's just a small part of why we've chosen to stay in a long term committed relationship and not married.

 

[AMEHigh]

The MFS brackets are different than the Single ones, and this is not true. The 37% tax bracket starts at $510k for a single person, but $612k for a married couple (not double like all the other brackets) and $311k for married filing separately. This is only an issue if the couple (together) make >$612k.

In addition (this is not a comprehensive list):

1) The additional medicare tax starts at $250k for a joint couple rather than $200k for an individual - which means that potentially up to an extra $150k is taxed there.
2) The $10k SALT deduction cap is the same whether you're single or MFJ, going down to $5k for MFS
3) Either both partners itemize or neither does - no way for one person to take the standard deduction. Two single people could group all tax deductions under one partner and have the other take the standard deduction.
4) There's weird stuff with HSA caps, particularly if you have kids. The joint HSA cap is exactly double the single one - but if you're both single and have family HDHPs, you might be able to get a "family" deduction for one person and a "single" for the other (leading to 1.5x higher HSA cap) or even sometimes "family" deductions for both single people (leading to 2x higher HSA caps).
5) There's even weirder stuff with how IBR interacts with incomes - this is the one situation MFS typically beats MFJ, but single would beat both.

For a couple who make total >$250k/year, particularly if they earn similar incomes to each other (rather than one high earner and one low/no earner), there is zero tax advantage to being married - and in fact there can be a significant tax penalty. Particularly if they have kids - if they were divorced on paper, one could file HOH with the kids, the other could file single, AND they could group all the itemizable stuff under one person and have the other take the standard deduction (or just both itemize - now with both being able to count $10k in state tax individually).

The people who get tax benefits from marriage are those who have disparate incomes - then the benefits are huge. For people who earn similar amounts, it's typically a wash - unless they're high earners.

It's not a big enough difference for most given the other gazillion benefits of marriage... but it's certainly a consideration.

Yes, thank you.
I didn't really want to type all that out lol.
Everyone's financial situation is different obviously, but there can definitely be financial benefits for not getting married.

 

[Dr.LeoSpaceman]

The MFS brackets are different than the Single ones, and this is not true. The 37% tax bracket starts at $510k for a single person, but $612k for a married couple (not double like all the other brackets) and $311k for married filing separately. This is only an issue if the couple (together) make >$612k.

In addition (this is not a comprehensive list):

1) The additional medicare tax starts at $250k for a joint couple rather than $200k for an individual - which means that potentially up to an extra $150k is taxed there.
2) The $10k SALT deduction cap is the same whether you're single or MFJ, going down to $5k for MFS
3) Either both partners itemize or neither does - no way for one person to take the standard deduction. Two single people could group all tax deductions under one partner and have the other take the standard deduction.
4) There's weird stuff with HSA caps, particularly if you have kids. The joint HSA cap is exactly double the single one - but if you're both single and have family HDHPs, you might be able to get a "family" deduction for one person and a "single" for the other (leading to 1.5x higher HSA cap) or even sometimes "family" deductions for both single people (leading to 2x higher HSA caps).
5) There's even weirder stuff with how IBR interacts with incomes - this is the one situation MFS typically beats MFJ, but single would beat both.

For a couple who make total >$250k/year, particularly if they earn similar incomes to each other (rather than one high earner and one low/no earner), there is zero tax advantage to being married - and in fact there can be a significant tax penalty. Particularly if they have kids - if they were divorced on paper, one could file HOH with the kids, the other could file single, AND they could group all the itemizable stuff under one person and have the other take the standard deduction (or just both itemize - now with both being able to count $10k in state tax individually).

The people who get tax benefits from marriage are those who have disparate incomes - then the benefits are huge. For people who earn similar amounts, it's typically a wash - unless they're high earners.

It's not a big enough difference for most given the other gazillion benefits of marriage... but it's certainly a consideration.

Admittedly, I was not accurate. Though I do stil contend that the window for benefit vs. liability is generally more narrow than some would suggest. And that doesn't even consider advantages related to estate planning, retirement, etc. Do all of those outweigh the yearly tax penalty? Not sure, but I suspect it depends on specific circumstance (some of which are unknowable when the decision is made).

I just reject the idea that a decision to get married (one way or the other) is a financial one. And efforts to justify it as such seems to be somewhat of a strawman. To put a finer point on it, I just don't know of couple that's decided they both feel strongly about getting married for whatever personal/spiritual/philosophical reason only to sit down and decide that they shouldn't because the numbers don't work. I guess they might be out there, but I would wonder whether that's a recipe for long term happiness.

 

[Raryn]

Admittedly, I was not accurate. Though I do stil contend that the window for benefit vs. liability is generally more narrow than some would suggest. And that doesn't even consider advantages related to estate planning, retirement, etc. Do all of those outweigh the yearly tax penalty? Not sure, but I suspect it depends on specific circumstance (some of which are unknowable when the decision is made).

My opinion was the last line of my post "It's not a big enough difference for most given the other gazillion benefits of marriage... but it's certainly a consideration." You can approximate the majority of benefits with a set of POAs, estate plan, etc - but there's plenty of other legal benefits that are much more nebulous.

I just reject the idea that a decision to get married (one way or the other) is a financial one. And efforts to justify it as such seems to be somewhat of a strawman. To put a finer point on it, I just don't know of couple that's decided they both feel strongly about getting married for whatever personal/spiritual/philosophical reason only to sit down and decide that they shouldn't because the numbers don't work. I guess they might be out there, but I would wonder whether that's a recipe for long term happiness.

I agree. It's definitely not simply a financial decision. Not in 2020.

 

[smq123]

But just to bring this back to the OP’s original situation, wouldn’t you agree that regardless of whether you define a committed relationship based on a piece of paper, it seems clear that the OP and SO are NOT in a committed relationship if they aren’t able to talk about these kinds of life-altering decisions explicitly before submitting a rank list? Surely part of what makes your relationship work is that you’re always able to align your goals in making Big Decisions. So, at the end of the day the bottom line seems to be that they don’t have the same long-term goals, and if they can’t be aligned that’s going to be a problem no matter how they choose to define their relationship moving forward.

I just finished medical school and got matched at Mass Gen Hospital in Boston for my residency. My SO and I live together in a city about 6 hours away from Boston by car. We have been together for 5 years and the relationship has been great. He is quite settled in our current city with a house and families. He does not want to move to Boston with me or be in a long distance relationship. He is trying to convinced me to give up my residency at Harvard and to do my residency locally. I am torn between a great opportunity and my relationship. Do you guys have any advice for me? Thank you~~~~

Thanks, GSG, for bringing the topic back to the main point.

@Milamila (if you're even still reading this) - I know that you said that you and your boyfriend have been together for 5 years and that things have "been great." However, I suspect that things were fine because there was no need to have the big, scary conversations about the future and where things are going and how you fit into his long term plan (and vice versa). And now, suddenly, you have to have that type of conversation....although, let's be honest, there IS no discussion. You matched into Harvard, an opportunity that most people would give their left hand to have. Backing out means breaking your NRMP contract, which will be hard to explain and could potentially mean that you don't get another residency, even locally. The idea of backing out and breaking your contract is technically an option, but I think that we all know that that's not a real viable option at all.

If you weren't able to have that kind of deep conversation about the future now, what makes you think that you'll ever be able to have it? And if you can't, how can you have children or get married or move forward at all?

Admittedly, I was not accurate. Though I do stil contend that the window for benefit vs. liability is generally more narrow than some would suggest. And that doesn't even consider advantages related to estate planning, retirement, etc. Do all of those outweigh the yearly tax penalty? Not sure, but I suspect it depends on specific circumstance (some of which are unknowable when the decision is made).

I just reject the idea that a decision to get married (one way or the other) is a financial one. And efforts to justify it as such seems to be somewhat of a strawman. To put a finer point on it, I just don't know of couple that's decided they both feel strongly about getting married for whatever personal/spiritual/philosophical reason only to sit down and decide that they shouldn't because the numbers don't work. I guess they might be out there, but I would wonder whether that's a recipe for long term happiness.

You can feel strongly about the benefit of being in a committed adult relationship, and not feel strongly about getting married. Having a partner and a child has been one of the best things in my life, and both are emotionally satisfying in ways that being a doctor can't even come close to. But getting married just seems kind of superfluous at this point.

It is also possible that I've been jaded by being around other females, particularly female physicians. I am assuming that you're male, but the average female arguments for marriage would make ANYONE a cynic about getting married. The arguments seem to be a) you need to get married so that you can have the big white dress and the ceremony and (of course!) the massive diamond ring, or b) you need to trap him so that you're entitled to half his money (particularly as he is in a higher paying specialty than I am).

 

[D P356]

Major Plot twist... the OP IS the SO/boyfriend

jk

move on. If you’re not married, you have no common children...deuces!

if you pass up the opportunity and things don’t go as planned, you may resent them.

also if you settle in this instance with them, you’ll probably have to settle in other areas of life with them.

 

[Dr.LeoSpaceman]

You can feel strongly about the benefit of being in a committed adult relationship, and not feel strongly about getting married. Having a partner and a child has been one of the best things in my life, and both are emotionally satisfying in ways that being a doctor can't even come close to. But getting married just seems kind of superfluous at this point.

I think we are in agreement. Your personal feelings and beliefs are driving your decision, and a discussion regarding financial implications would be unlikely to provide a satisfying counterweight to those beliefs. I find it no less vapid than the issues you bring up regarding the "big dress" and pinning someone down. And that was really all I was pointing out. That the desire to make the decision about tax implications loses the forest for the trees of how people in (healthy) relationships actually make these decisions.

 

[Neuronix]

That the desire to make the decision about tax implications loses the forest for the trees of how people in (healthy) relationships actually make these decisions.

I didn't realize how unhealthy my relationship was. 🙄

So everyone please enjoy trying to convince everyone else of your own personal views on relationships and how your views are the right ones, or the healthy ones, or the most stable ones, or whatever else helps you justify your own life choices. I say let two consenting adults have families (or not) however they want, and I'm not going to judge. I'm out of this discussion.

To the op, welcome to medicine. You're likely going to have to move around in your career. I had little to no choice of location for medical school, residency, and faculty positions, and I have moved around the country several times. If your partner isn't willing to move with you or be flexible about this, this is the first of many problems you're going to have. It hurts, but it's true. Who knows if you'll find a job in that area when you're done training? Are you willing to LTR for many, many years for this person, or not? Only you can decide to do with your situation and that information.

 

[Dr.LeoSpaceman]

So everyone please enjoy trying to convince everyone else of your own personal views on relationships and how your views are the right ones, or the healthy ones, or the most stable ones, or whatever else helps you justify your own life choices. I say let two consenting adults have families (or not) however they want, and I'm not going to judge. I'm out of this discussion.

Yeah, at no point did I say that people should or shouldn't get married. I've been pretty clear that people make their own decisions to do so or not based on their own value structure, which is the way it should be.

But if you don't see the similarity between women who want to get married to "lock down financial security" and not wanting to get married because it hurts their take home, then yes, we aren't going to agree. That people can look at the former as distasteful and the latter as the practical choice is somewhat paradoxical.

Also, thanks for trying to compare my comments to those opposing gay marriage. I've been supportive of it since I knocked on doors against Ohio State Issue 1 in 2004. I guess important to note that the couples I knew at the time which informed those views weren't in it for the tax advantages.

 

[Gos81238ia]

I just finished medical school and got matched at Mass Gen Hospital in Boston for my residency. My SO and I live together in a city about 6 hours away from Boston by car. We have been together for 5 years and the relationship has been great. He is quite settled in our current city with a house and families. He does not want to move to Boston with me or be in a long distance relationship. He is trying to convinced me to give up my residency at Harvard and to do my residency locally. I am torn between a great opportunity and my relationship. Do you guys have any advice for me? Thank you~~~~

I'm not sure your partner has an understanding of how this process works...per the match contract you don't get to say no and pick somewhere else for residency. When you chose to rank a program, then you chose to accepting a binding agreement to work there if you matched. You don't get a lot of choice in the matter afterwards.

Your partner needs some perspective, you moving 6 hours away and them potentially following is not a deal breaker at all. Think of all the IMGs who end up in different countries and travel far and wide for residency. I have seen relationships succeed past all of these barriers with both situations of partners coming along and partners staying back home. It depended on what was right for the couple's personal situation - some had kids to care for, some partners had certain jobs that were less amenable to moves to remote places. It was never an issue of not wanting to move out of comfort.

I have seen people in your situation give up certain opportunities for residencies and fellowships for partners who for no better reason just didn't want them to move, and it almost always did not work out in the relationship.

With another perspective, your partner wants you to give up a once in a lifetime opportunity related to your singular career goal all because they feel "too comfortable"? That's just not good enough. Red flag in my opinion. What is this partner going to do when you face bigger challenges - a dying parent, a disabled child? Not support you because they're "too comfortable"?.

Talk to your partner and see if there are some underlying insecurities or conflicts that are underlying this - there may be something deeper than just feeling comfortable.

 

[smq123]

But if you don't see the similarity between women who want to get married to "lock down financial security" and not wanting to get married because it hurts their take home, then yes, we aren't going to agree. That people can look at the former as distasteful and the latter as the practical choice is somewhat paradoxical.

Wanting to get married to lock down financial security implies that I want to lock down MY financial security. So if I don't want to work and just rely on his income, he has to be ok with that because we're now married. It implies that I should mooch off of him.

Wanting not to get married to save the tax penalty doesn't just help my take home, it helps OUR take home. If the money we save by not getting married allows us to retire sooner so that we can live out our dream of traveling, or if it allows us to get our child(ren) a better education, then yes - I'm all for that. I don't see why that's paradoxical at all.

It is also pretty funny to me that people are coming down on this decision as being "excessively practical." The idea of marrying for love is a pretty recent concept, and, in fact, the idea of marrying for love was considered distasteful in many cultures. Historically, marriage WAS only for practical purposes - to share land, cement business ties, etc. If you're ever prepared to look at marriage historically, read "Marriage, a History: How Love Conquered Marriage" by Stephanie Coontz. "In Europe, during the twelfth and thirteenth centuries, adultery become idealized as the highest form of love among aristocracy. According to the Countess of Champagne, it was impossible for true love to 'exert its powers between two people who are married to each other.'"

 

[VA Hopeful Dr]

Wanting to get married to lock down financial security implies that I want to lock down MY financial security. So if I don't want to work and just rely on his income, he has to be ok with that because we're now married. It implies that I should mooch off of him.

Wanting not to get married to save the tax penalty doesn't just help my take home, it helps OUR take home. If the money we save by not getting married allows us to retire sooner so that we can live out our dream of traveling, or if it allows us to get our child(ren) a better education, then yes - I'm all for that. I don't see why that's paradoxical at all.

It is also pretty funny to me that people are coming down on this decision as being "excessively practical." The idea of marrying for love is a pretty recent concept, and, in fact, the idea of marrying for love was considered distasteful in many cultures. Historically, marriage WAS only for practical purposes - to share land, cement business ties, etc. If you're ever prepared to look at marriage historically, read "Marriage, a History: How Love Conquered Marriage" by Stephanie Coontz. "In Europe, during the twelfth and thirteenth centuries, adultery become idealized as the highest form of love among aristocracy. According to the Countess of Champagne, it was impossible for true love to 'exert its powers between two people who are married to each other.'"

I didn't even consider this aspect of it all. @Neuronix is missing out on the goats/oxen your parents would have given him to marry you.

True love means sharing your livestock.

 

[smq123]

I didn't even consider this aspect of it all. @Neuronix is missing out on the goats/oxen your parents would have given him to marry you.

True love means sharing your livestock.

This thread has created another inside joke in our household.

"Why do I have to empty out the diaper pail? Is it because we're not married?"

"I think you should have to keep my CV updated every 3 months. If we were married, I would do it, but since we're not, you should have to."

"Do you have to tickle my feet when I'm trying to watch TV? It's because we're not married, isn't it."

"If we were married, I'd clean the coffeemaker for you."

 

[ThoracicGuy]

This thread has created another inside joke in our household.

"Why do I have to empty out the diaper pail? Is it because we're not married?"

"I think you should have to keep my CV updated every 3 months. If we were married, I would do it, but since we're not, you should have to."

"Do you have to tickle my feet when I'm trying to watch TV? It's because we're not married, isn't it."

"If we were married, I'd clean the coffeemaker for you."

So who gets to deal with baby at night?

 

[smq123]

So who gets to deal with baby at night?

She's generally pretty good through the night (knock wood), but if she wakes up, I usually deal with it. I do better on less sleep than he does - that's always been the case. I'm also at home more, especially now - he still has to go in to physically treat patients, while we're doing more telehealth visits. I could complain or milk it for guilt trip points, but....I love patting her fuzzy baby head as she goes back to sleep too much. 😍😍

 

[VA Hopeful Dr]

This thread has created another inside joke in our household.

"Why do I have to empty out the diaper pail? Is it because we're not married?"

"I think you should have to keep my CV updated every 3 months. If we were married, I would do it, but since we're not, you should have to."

"Do you have to tickle my feet when I'm trying to watch TV? It's because we're not married, isn't it."

"If we were married, I'd clean the coffeemaker for you."

Granted mine are potty trained now, but before that I did all of those things (and I don't even drink coffee).

Maybe you're on to something here...

 

[ThoracicGuy]

She's generally pretty good through the night (knock wood), but if she wakes up, I usually deal with it. I do better on less sleep than he does - that's always been the case. I'm also at home more, especially now - he still has to go in to physically treat patients, while we're doing more telehealth visits. I could complain or milk it for guilt trip points, but....I love patting her fuzzy baby head as she goes back to sleep too much. 😍😍

Well if you were married, he would have to do it!!!!~~!11!

We had a system... if our oldest woke up before 2 am, I would go in. Afterwards, the wif would go in. Sometimes I played like I was asleep when he woke me up with crying... Don't tell!

 

[smq123]

Granted mine are potty trained now, but before that I did all of those things (and I don't even drink coffee).

Maybe you're on to something here...

At the risk of derailing the thread even further....why don't you drink coffee?!?! How did you get through med school and residency? Meth?

 

[smq123]

Well if you were married, he would have to do it!!!!~~!11!

We had a system... if our oldest woke up before 2 am, I would go in. Afterwards, the wif would go in. Sometimes I played like I was asleep when he woke me up with crying... Don't tell!

Your wife probably already knows that you were pretending to be asleep. Or if she doesn't KNOW, she SUSPECTS.

 

[Raryn]

This thread has created another inside joke in our household.

"Why do I have to empty out the diaper pail? Is it because we're not married?"

"I think you should have to keep my CV updated every 3 months. If we were married, I would do it, but since we're not, you should have to."

"Do you have to tickle my feet when I'm trying to watch TV? It's because we're not married, isn't it."

"If we were married, I'd clean the coffeemaker for you."

I'm married and still have to take out the recycling. Maybe if I wasn't I wouldn't feel bad making my wife do it?

 

[Gos81238ia]

Gotta say this thread has been an interesting debate on marriage in general. As a person who is married (a dual physician marriage none the less) and values marriage, its interesting to see the other side of it.

My few cents from my own experience - neither my husband nor I would be where we are today without each other. We met in college, both with goals to get into medical school, but maybe lacking the confidence that we could do it. My husband helped expand my horizons and think about going the IMG route which always seemed too scary to consider when I was on my own. I helped my husband see his intrinsic value and that it was worth working hard because he had so much potential to be an excellent physician. Also made it easier to put in the long study hours and the summers spent doing the MCAT to have a supportive partner by our sides. When it came time to apply, we both realized this could mean separation from each other, but we never once tried to undercut ourselves or the other person. We would try to be together geographically if it were possible, but would not want each other to sacrifice our dreams for that. We never made it into a "fool's choice"; it was never a choice between our goals and our relationship. Rather, how can we manage both because plenty of people do, and in fact, the support from our relationship could help us reach our goals. Doing long distance was something we planned if needed and talked about how we would manage it, knowing that we loved, valued and respected each other and knowing long distance wouldn't be forever. When push came to shove, we were both accepted in Ireland and I turned down interviews in the US which my husband was not getting so we could both go to medical school and be together geographically. In retrospect, maybe not the "smart choice" as I now have a much better understanding of what being an IMG entails, but I was willing to put the work in and got to have my partner by my side. This turned out to be an important decision as my husband lost his mom just 2 days after we moved to Ireland. If you think moving to a new country and starting medical school isn't hard enough, try doing that when you are grieving the loss of a parent. I got to be there by his side the whole time. It was a very difficult time to say the least, grief is not pretty, but deepened our relationship immensely as it really gave us a great perspective on stress we faced. We knew what was really important in life. Fast forward to match time - we were engaged and couple's matching. My husband ended up returning the favour - he withdrew from the Canadian match which I did not get any interviews for, and we couple's matched to the states together. Again, a compromise that allowed us to both pursue our dreams and not have to be apart. We were fortunate to have the option to stay together and it ended up being a win win situation. Residency in the states was great, we met great friends, didn't have to deal with long distance and were so thankful for our path. We even became co-chief residents because we work so well together and have excellent communication with each other. We enable each other to be the best that we can be, we both won recognitions during our time in residency for different aspects of our individual performance as residents. Finally, at the end of residency, we were both fully licensed and ready to return home to Canada. We negotiated which city to live in and which positions to take where both of us have jobs that we love and are exactly what we wanted to be doing. We actually share our outpatient practice so that we can cover for each other without having to hire a locum and let us each pursue interests outside of outpatient clinic as well.

In terms of marriage - we got married because it was a deeply meaningful experience for us. We had overcome a lot of challenges and it was a celebration of what we built together. It was the best day of our lives to express what we mean to each other in front of everyone in our lives who is important to us. It was a recognition of how much we build each other up. For us personally, it's a great foundation for when we will eventually have kids since when you have a child, you are bound to the other parent of your child in some way forever. It had nothing to do with the day itself, the dress, the party, any of it. Our wedding was modest and given that I was in Ireland while it was being planned, my mom actually put the party together for the most part. I didn't see the venue, the food, any of that until the day of. All that mattered to me and my husband was the expression of love and commitment. Marriage was the way we wanted to do that, but I recognize there are all sorts of way to express love and commitment. It can be implicitly in a long term relationship, it can be in a courthouse with no audience, it can be in a non-marriage ceremony. It doesn't matter. Its the love and respect and commitment to the other person that matters at the end of the day. Financially, we probably would have been better off to skip the wedding ceremony and put our money towards our student debt. Financially, we would have been better off not being together because we both have high debt loads that we bring to each other. But then again, would either one os us be physicians without the support and encouragement of the other? Who knows. At the end of the day, we would still be together today one way or the other, but through marriage we got to have a deeply meaningful and emotional day and one heck of a party. We still reflect back on it often, on what a great team we are, how significant it is for us to be married and how much we look forward to expanding our family on this foundation.

I hope this brings a positive perspective on supportive, healthy relationships in medicine and in general and a positive perspective for those who choose to get married, while recognizing that it is not the wedding or marriage itself, but the underlying partnership and relationship that brings the value.

 

[VA Hopeful Dr]

At the risk of derailing the thread even further....why don't you drink coffee?!?! How did you get through med school and residency? Meth?

I was worried it would stunt my growth (not sure that joke works outside of in-person interactions, but I'm too old to change now).

I run on sarcasm and bitterness, burns much cleaner than coffee

 

[Milamila]

Thank you everyone for your advice and opinions! It is good to know that I am not the only one that has to make the tough decisions. At the end, my SO still didn't want to try long distance or move to Boston, so we ended the relationship. I moved to Boston alone and will start residency next week. It has been a rough few months emotionally, moving to a new city in the middle of the pandemic alone, but I hope it is the right decision.

To answers some of the comments that were posted, we didn't get married or engaged during our 5-year relationship, because my SO doesn't believe in marriage. He has a couple of properties and doesn't want to risk losing them, if the marriage doesn't work out. This was something he told me explicitly at the beginning of the relationship. I saw how hard he works to manage his properties. He has a full time job and still does renovations in the evenings and over the weekends. He seemed to be a committed partner, so I accepted that we will not get married.

Regarding our communications, it has always been difficult to talk to him about my career, which is probably why I was in such a tough position. He was raised in a traditionally Italian family, where the main job of the woman is to keep the house together. Long distance relationship or moving away from family was considered incomprehensible. He believes that families have to stay together. Otherwise, it is not a family. He knew about my dreams and tried to be supportive. He said "he was just waiting for me to finish school, so we can start a family". Now, residency is another few years and he doesn't want to wait anymore.

Besides that, we get along very well. We share similar interests and opinions on many aspects of life. He is fun and loving. His family treats me like a daughter. I guess at the end, our difference in values made the relationship an uphill battle for the both of us... I want to be a good wife, while keeping some of my dreams, but I think he just wants a good wife.

 

[rokshana]

Thank you everyone for your advice and opinions! It is good to know that I am not the only one that has to make the tough decisions. At the end, my SO still didn't want to try long distance or move to Boston, so we ended the relationship. I moved to Boston alone and will start residency next week. It has been a rough few months emotionally, moving to a new city in the middle of the pandemic alone, but I hope it is the right decision.

To answers some of the comments that were posted, we didn't get married or engaged during our 5-year relationship, because my SO doesn't believe in marriage. He has a couple of properties and doesn't want to risk losing them, if the marriage doesn't work out. This was something he told me explicitly at the beginning of the relationship. I saw how hard he works to manage his properties. He has a full time job and still does renovations in the evenings and over the weekends. He seemed to be a committed partner, so I accepted that we will not get married.

Regarding our communications, it has always been difficult to talk to him about my career, which is probably why I was in such a tough position. He was raised in a traditionally Italian family, where the main job of the woman is to keep the house together. Long distance relationship or moving away from family was considered incomprehensible. He believes that families have to stay together. Otherwise, it is not a family. He knew about my dreams and tried to be supportive. He said "he was just waiting for me to finish school, so we can start a family". Now, residency is another few years and he doesn't want to wait anymore.

Besides that, we get along very well. We share similar interests and opinions on many aspects of life. He is fun and loving. His family treats me like a daughter. I guess at the end, our difference in values made the relationship an uphill battle for the both of us... I want to be a good wife, while keeping some of my dreams, but I think he just wants a good wife.

How can he want a “traditional” Italian family and yet not want to get married? Traditional Italian families want people to get married and then have children...

I know it doesn’t feel like it now, but you dodged a bullet...

Boston is a young town, with lots of single people and lots to do...you will come to love the city...I’m diehard southern and yet I keep getting drawn to work in the Boston area...and MA has done a pretty good job with covid...

You will find someone who shares your ideals and is supportive of you and your personal and career goals!

 

[deleted480308]

Thank you everyone for your advice and opinions! It is good to know that I am not the only one that has to make the tough decisions. At the end, my SO still didn't want to try long distance or move to Boston, so we ended the relationship. I moved to Boston alone and will start residency next week. It has been a rough few months emotionally, moving to a new city in the middle of the pandemic alone, but I hope it is the right decision.

To answers some of the comments that were posted, we didn't get married or engaged during our 5-year relationship, because my SO doesn't believe in marriage. He has a couple of properties and doesn't want to risk losing them, if the marriage doesn't work out. This was something he told me explicitly at the beginning of the relationship. I saw how hard he works to manage his properties. He has a full time job and still does renovations in the evenings and over the weekends. He seemed to be a committed partner, so I accepted that we will not get married.

Regarding our communications, it has always been difficult to talk to him about my career, which is probably why I was in such a tough position. He was raised in a traditionally Italian family, where the main job of the woman is to keep the house together. Long distance relationship or moving away from family was considered incomprehensible. He believes that families have to stay together. Otherwise, it is not a family. He knew about my dreams and tried to be supportive. He said "he was just waiting for me to finish school, so we can start a family". Now, residency is another few years and he doesn't want to wait anymore.

Besides that, we get along very well. We share similar interests and opinions on many aspects of life. He is fun and loving. His family treats me like a daughter. I guess at the end, our difference in values made the relationship an uphill battle for the both of us... I want to be a good wife, while keeping some of my dreams, but I think he just wants a good wife.

Families get married. He doesn’t want a wife, he told you that.

you got lucky getting out,go enjoy your life and find a nice guy who really wants to be a part ofnit

 

[LucidSplash]

Thank you everyone for your advice and opinions! It is good to know that I am not the only one that has to make the tough decisions. At the end, my SO still didn't want to try long distance or move to Boston, so we ended the relationship. I moved to Boston alone and will start residency next week. It has been a rough few months emotionally, moving to a new city in the middle of the pandemic alone, but I hope it is the right decision.

To answers some of the comments that were posted, we didn't get married or engaged during our 5-year relationship, because my SO doesn't believe in marriage. He has a couple of properties and doesn't want to risk losing them, if the marriage doesn't work out. This was something he told me explicitly at the beginning of the relationship. I saw how hard he works to manage his properties. He has a full time job and still does renovations in the evenings and over the weekends. He seemed to be a committed partner, so I accepted that we will not get married.

Regarding our communications, it has always been difficult to talk to him about my career, which is probably why I was in such a tough position. He was raised in a traditionally Italian family, where the main job of the woman is to keep the house together. Long distance relationship or moving away from family was considered incomprehensible. He believes that families have to stay together. Otherwise, it is not a family. He knew about my dreams and tried to be supportive. He said "he was just waiting for me to finish school, so we can start a family". Now, residency is another few years and he doesn't want to wait anymore.

Besides that, we get along very well. We share similar interests and opinions on many aspects of life. He is fun and loving. His family treats me like a daughter. I guess at the end, our difference in values made the relationship an uphill battle for the both of us... I want to be a good wife, while keeping some of my dreams, but I think he just wants a good wife.

This relationship would never have worked. Speaking from experience, being with a cishet guy who expects a “traditional” family life is not going to be able to be happy in a relationship with a female doc. Because that’s not the way the schedule/life works in residency and sometimes beyond. Resentment would have continued to build until it boiled over.

I’m sorry you had to go through this painful experience. For now, focus on yourself and your career. There will be other fish in the sea along the way, who will be more understanding that medicine is not like other career fields in the training phases. Your dreams and goals have value and worth and don’t settle for someone who doesn’t get that.

 

[Raryn]

Thank you everyone for your advice and opinions! It is good to know that I am not the only one that has to make the tough decisions. At the end, my SO still didn't want to try long distance or move to Boston, so we ended the relationship. I moved to Boston alone and will start residency next week. It has been a rough few months emotionally, moving to a new city in the middle of the pandemic alone, but I hope it is the right decision.

To answers some of the comments that were posted, we didn't get married or engaged during our 5-year relationship, because my SO doesn't believe in marriage. He has a couple of properties and doesn't want to risk losing them, if the marriage doesn't work out. This was something he told me explicitly at the beginning of the relationship. I saw how hard he works to manage his properties. He has a full time job and still does renovations in the evenings and over the weekends. He seemed to be a committed partner, so I accepted that we will not get married.

Regarding our communications, it has always been difficult to talk to him about my career, which is probably why I was in such a tough position. He was raised in a traditionally Italian family, where the main job of the woman is to keep the house together. Long distance relationship or moving away from family was considered incomprehensible. He believes that families have to stay together. Otherwise, it is not a family. He knew about my dreams and tried to be supportive. He said "he was just waiting for me to finish school, so we can start a family". Now, residency is another few years and he doesn't want to wait anymore.

Besides that, we get along very well. We share similar interests and opinions on many aspects of life. He is fun and loving. His family treats me like a daughter. I guess at the end, our difference in values made the relationship an uphill battle for the both of us... I want to be a good wife, while keeping some of my dreams, but I think he just wants a good wife.

Prenups are a thing if he's worried about properties - and it seems he was completely clueless on the whole process of medical education. You dodged a bullet. Good luck in residency.

 

[deleted1005514]

Thank you everyone for your advice and opinions! It is good to know that I am not the only one that has to make the tough decisions. At the end, my SO still didn't want to try long distance or move to Boston, so we ended the relationship. I moved to Boston alone and will start residency next week. It has been a rough few months emotionally, moving to a new city in the middle of the pandemic alone, but I hope it is the right decision.

To answers some of the comments that were posted, we didn't get married or engaged during our 5-year relationship, because my SO doesn't believe in marriage. He has a couple of properties and doesn't want to risk losing them, if the marriage doesn't work out. This was something he told me explicitly at the beginning of the relationship. I saw how hard he works to manage his properties. He has a full time job and still does renovations in the evenings and over the weekends. He seemed to be a committed partner, so I accepted that we will not get married.

Regarding our communications, it has always been difficult to talk to him about my career, which is probably why I was in such a tough position. He was raised in a traditionally Italian family, where the main job of the woman is to keep the house together. Long distance relationship or moving away from family was considered incomprehensible. He believes that families have to stay together. Otherwise, it is not a family. He knew about my dreams and tried to be supportive. He said "he was just waiting for me to finish school, so we can start a family". Now, residency is another few years and he doesn't want to wait anymore.

Besides that, we get along very well. We share similar interests and opinions on many aspects of life. He is fun and loving. His family treats me like a daughter. I guess at the end, our difference in values made the relationship an uphill battle for the both of us... I want to be a good wife, while keeping some of my dreams, but I think he just wants a good wife.

OP, I am sorry that you had to go through all this, but I'm glad you chose your residency program over your boyfriend, because he was lying to you. He could have asked for a pre-nup if he wanted his property protected, and that would have given you a chance to make sure that your future earning were protected too. If he didn't believe in marriage then he didn't really want a traditional family, because those things are mutually exclusive, and the fact that he wanted to start a family with you without being willing to offer you and any future children some sort of legal protection through marriage says a lot about who he valued the most in this relationship. The thought that you can't be a good wife and also be career oriented is bullsh&t...anyone who values you would know that in order to be the best you can be, you shouldn't have to choose between your dreams and a relationship with them.

 

[Dr G Oogle]

Thank you everyone for your advice and opinions! It is good to know that I am not the only one that has to make the tough decisions. At the end, my SO still didn't want to try long distance or move to Boston, so we ended the relationship. I moved to Boston alone and will start residency next week. It has been a rough few months emotionally, moving to a new city in the middle of the pandemic alone, but I hope it is the right decision.

To answers some of the comments that were posted, we didn't get married or engaged during our 5-year relationship, because my SO doesn't believe in marriage. He has a couple of properties and doesn't want to risk losing them, if the marriage doesn't work out. This was something he told me explicitly at the beginning of the relationship. I saw how hard he works to manage his properties. He has a full time job and still does renovations in the evenings and over the weekends. He seemed to be a committed partner, so I accepted that we will not get married.

Regarding our communications, it has always been difficult to talk to him about my career, which is probably why I was in such a tough position. He was raised in a traditionally Italian family, where the main job of the woman is to keep the house together. Long distance relationship or moving away from family was considered incomprehensible. He believes that families have to stay together. Otherwise, it is not a family. He knew about my dreams and tried to be supportive. He said "he was just waiting for me to finish school, so we can start a family". Now, residency is another few years and he doesn't want to wait anymore.

Besides that, we get along very well. We share similar interests and opinions on many aspects of life. He is fun and loving. His family treats me like a daughter. I guess at the end, our difference in values made the relationship an uphill battle for the both of us... I want to be a good wife, while keeping some of my dreams, but I think he just wants a good wife.

the good thing about residency is it’s so consuming it will help you get over all manner of heartache, I similarly got out of a long term “Good” but in retrospect toxic 4- year relationship, and before I knew a year had passed by and I realized I had moved on. There might be some lonely moments but that’s what chipotle, alcohol of choice and your favorite movie are for . Good luck in your residency and congratulations , a spot at MGH ain’t nothing to sneeze at

 

[HemeOncHopeful19]

Thank you OP for coming back and updating! Good luck in residency and beyond!

 

[GoSpursGo]

Thank you everyone for your advice and opinions! It is good to know that I am not the only one that has to make the tough decisions. At the end, my SO still didn't want to try long distance or move to Boston, so we ended the relationship. I moved to Boston alone and will start residency next week. It has been a rough few months emotionally, moving to a new city in the middle of the pandemic alone, but I hope it is the right decision.

To answers some of the comments that were posted, we didn't get married or engaged during our 5-year relationship, because my SO doesn't believe in marriage. He has a couple of properties and doesn't want to risk losing them, if the marriage doesn't work out. This was something he told me explicitly at the beginning of the relationship. I saw how hard he works to manage his properties. He has a full time job and still does renovations in the evenings and over the weekends. He seemed to be a committed partner, so I accepted that we will not get married.

Regarding our communications, it has always been difficult to talk to him about my career, which is probably why I was in such a tough position. He was raised in a traditionally Italian family, where the main job of the woman is to keep the house together. Long distance relationship or moving away from family was considered incomprehensible. He believes that families have to stay together. Otherwise, it is not a family. He knew about my dreams and tried to be supportive. He said "he was just waiting for me to finish school, so we can start a family". Now, residency is another few years and he doesn't want to wait anymore.

Besides that, we get along very well. We share similar interests and opinions on many aspects of life. He is fun and loving. His family treats me like a daughter. I guess at the end, our difference in values made the relationship an uphill battle for the both of us... I want to be a good wife, while keeping some of my dreams, but I think he just wants a good wife.

Just echoing what others have said, you dodged a bullet. It sounds like he's a great guy, but your values aren't compatible. And that's OK--better to realize that now.

 

[dpmd]

Just echoing what others have said, you dodged a bullet. It sounds like he's a great guy, but your values aren't compatible. And that's OK--better to realize that now.

Not so sure he is really a great guy but agree on the dodging a bullet part

 

[deleted480308]

Not so sure he is really a great guy but agree on the dodging a bullet part

Agreed. Not proven to be a great guy

 

[GoSpursGo]

Not so sure he is really a great guy but agree on the dodging a bullet part

Meh, he was good enough to stay with for 5 years. You’re not gonna get conclusive evidence in an SDN post, so I was gonna give the benefit of the doubt.

It’s kind of beside the point now. OP clearly made the right decision. 2 otherwise good people wind up in unworkable relationships all the time, no need to trash the other person on the way out.

 

[Mass Effect]

Echoing everyone else about dodging that bullet. What guy is going to whine that his doctor-girlfriend got into Harvard for residency? I mean what? Plenty of fish in the sea who would celebrate your accomplishments right there with you.

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

Meh, he was good enough to stay with for 5 years. You’re not gonna get conclusive evidence in an SDN post, so I was gonna give the benefit of the doubt.

It’s kind of beside the point now. OP clearly made the right decision. 2 otherwise good people wind up in unworkable relationships all the time, no need to trash the other person on the way out.

My wife has a friend who has been with an emotionally abusive dick for over a decade. “Good enough to stay with for 5 years” doesn’t mean anything. Not saying this dude is a bad guy, but you can’t make that judgement just based on time.

edit: I too like to give the benefit of the doubt though.

 

[GoSpursGo]

My wife has a friend who has been with an emotionally abusive dick for over a decade. “Good enough to stay with for 5 years” doesn’t mean anything. Not saying this dude is a bad guy, but you can’t make that judgement just based on time.

edit: I too like to give the benefit of the doubt though.

All true.

In any event, the important thing is they had life goals that were incompatible. So it really doesn’t matter if he was good or not.

 

[Emmet2301]

Echoing everyone else about dodging that bullet. What guy is going to whine that his doctor-girlfriend got into Harvard for residency? I mean what? Plenty of fish in the sea who would celebrate your accomplishments right there with you.

Honestly, I think there's a large part of the population who wouldn't really care about that, but care more on how that affects their marriage, family, children, future etc.

 

[Mass Effect]

Honestly, I think there's a large part of the population who wouldn't really care about that, but care more on how that affects their marriage, family, children, future etc.

When you care about someone, you care about their achievements and you realize that if they want to become a doctor, going to one of the best residency programs in the world is an opportunity they shouldn't give up. You can have a marriage, a family, children, and a future while still moving for three years. Residency is finite. Had the OP just wanted to move for no reason, fine. Had the OP wanted to move permanently, fine. But this is literally part of becoming a doctor and the OP is going to receive a first-class education. For a partner to not support that and either move or work out a long distance relationship arrangement is a deal-breaker in my book.

 

[Dave1980]

I just finished medical school and got matched at Mass Gen Hospital in Boston for my residency. My SO and I live together in a city about 6 hours away from Boston by car. We have been together for 5 years and the relationship has been great. He is quite settled in our current city with a house and families. He does not want to move to Boston with me or be in a long distance relationship. He is trying to convinced me to give up my residency at Harvard and to do my residency locally. I am torn between a great opportunity and my relationship. Do you guys have any advice for me? Thank you~~~~

Sorry OP but it sounds like your significant other doesn't find you that significant. Move to Boston, start a great career, and find someone new!