National Guard instead of HPSP?

[EMH]

Actually, the ARNG recruiter I spoke to mentioned that you still have to do drills in medical school, but you can do it on Flexible Training schedule, which can be as little as one day every three months. Maybe either he mis-spoke or I mis-heard, but I thought that's what was said. I remember my ears perking up when I heard drills were required in med school.

You should talk to the docs in the guard in your state about the flex plan. I spoke to an RN, a doc, and the deputy state surgeon (not a doc/assistant to the state surgeon). In Arkansas they are flexible and you might not have to make up time you miss. Or they might work out some thing unusual. I was told you just have to call and explain why you can't be there.

The big thing they kept talking about is getting enough points in a year for the year to count as a retirement year. Points are earned by drilling or other active duty. Apparently several people miss enough time that they don't wind up getting the points for the year. The total points you earn over your career is also used in calculating your retirement pay.

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[del Sol DOHC]

The big thing they kept talking about is getting enough points in a year for the year to count as a retirement year. Points are earned by drilling or other active duty. Apparently several people miss enough time that they don't wind up getting the points for the year. The total points you earn over your career is also used in calculating your retirement pay.

Yes, points are very important. You get 15 points per year just for being alive. You get one point for every day of being on active duty status (deployments, training, TDY, annual tour, etc...). You get 4 (sometimes 5) points for every drill weekend. At least 50 points are needed for a good year that will count as one of the 20 years needed to retire. You cannot get more than 365 points in a year, and the more points you have at retirement, the more money you get.

 

[Tiger26]

Does anybody know about this Sept 1st deadline? I know that it used to be June 1st, but then got changed. Is it a rolling admissions type of thing or is that when the board meets to decide.

 

[amindwalker]

The last I heard was that there are to be multiple deadlines. The total number has increased to 600. There are plenty of spots left.

 

[EMH]

Does anybody know about this Sept 1st deadline? I know that it used to be June 1st, but then got changed. Is it a rolling admissions type of thing or is that when the board meets to decide.

That's the first time I've heard of a deadline. I'm getting a physical July 22nd and as I understand it I should be ready to go early in August. I was curious why the recruiter scheduled me 45 days out for a physical. Any ideas?

 

[Spineman]

I have a question about the pay during residency? It seems that you will be getting paid from the guard as a Captain while you are in residency. My question is, and I assume the answer is yes but I'd like someone to confirm, will you be getting paid from your residency also? Another question is have any of you who are doing this program found that PD's are less than excited about having you gone for 1 weekend a month and 2 weeks/year? Is this something that will negatively affect my chances of getting a good residency. Thanks

 

[TheGoose]

I have a question about the pay during residency? It seems that you will be getting paid from the guard as a Captain while you are in residency. My question is, and I assume the answer is yes but I'd like someone to confirm, will you be getting paid from your residency also?

do you mean like getting a salary from your civilian residency job?

 

[Spineman]

Yes, I'm sorry. I mean will you be getting a salary from your civilian residency while you are also drawing a salary from serving in the guard.

 

[Spineman]

And have any of you had difficulty getting a recruiter to call you back. The one in my area seems pretty busy b/c I can't get her to answer he phone or return my calls. (2 days - i know it's not that long, but it seems that way when I'm trying to make a decision that will significantly alter my family's life).

 

[amindwalker]

The active duty slot is for medical/dental/PA students only, not for residents. During residency, you will not be paid active duty salary, but will be paid as a captain ($454-739, current pay rate depending on time in service) for drill weekends. My understanding is that Guard docs are only required to drill one weekend every three months. The Guard, at least in Pennsylvania, is very flexible with regard to drill weekends for physicians & med students. You will have to be proactive & send emails etc, in order to get out of a drill period, but it's really not a problem. I actually had drill this past weekend. I reported to my OIC (officer in charge), and he sent me home to study (with pay).

None of this will have any effect on your civilian residency salary, think of it as moonlighting. There is also the STRAP stipend which will pay you pretty well during residency (currently $1907/month).

 

[EMH]

There is also the STRAP stipend which will pay you pretty well during residency (currently $1907/month).

Be aware that the STRAP is a separate program that does incur extra commitment.

Also the guard in my state really seems quite laid back with the docs. I've been told that the 1 drill each 3 months is what the policy says but in reality they tend to be even more flexible.

 

[EMH]

And have any of you had difficulty getting a recruiter to call you back. The one in my area seems pretty busy b/c I can't get her to answer he phone or return my calls. (2 days - i know it's not that long, but it seems that way when I'm trying to make a decision that will significantly alter my family's life).

If you PM amindwalker he has the contact info for a regional recruiter who I believe can recruit for any state.

 

[Spineman]

Ok, that actually makes more sense. I couldn't figure out why such a fantastic deal was being offered with so little paid back toward them. Of course I was thinking Captain salary through residency and then civilian resident pay on top. That would be unreal, but this definitely makes more sense. Let me ask, does anyone know if there is a sign-on bonus for this program? I asked my recruiter, and she said she thought there was one, but she didn't know for sure. Thanks again.

Andy

 

[Spineman]

Thanks for the direction. I have pmed him already and been in contact with the regional recruiter. He said that he could start everything, but he'd rather let the recruiter in this area do it. I talked to her today and she is sending the application in the mail this evening so the ball is rolling now...just a couple of more months I think until it's all settled. How long did it take you all to get everything completed and start receiving salary, this is from the day you decided to go until the day you started receiving benefits? Thanks

Andy

 

[jonb12997]

just a couple of more months I think until it's all settled.

Someone else can feel free to chime in, but this was NOT the case at all with me! It took what seemed to me to be a long time to get things through. They had to get my initial packet approved, then I had to wait for a MEPS date, then once I passed that I had to get all kinds of boards to approve me, (the state has to make a new slot for you, the big army has to approve you, etc.) then I had to find a date to get up to get sworn in and all that. All in all, it took me from August when I first spoke with the recruiter till the end of March before I got in. It's NOT a fast process. They might make it seem like you'll be in a couple months, but with my experience it definitely wasn't.

My date of rank is 30 Mar (I drilled the day after getting sworn in, boy was a brand new 2LT THAT day, luckily a 1LT and SFC took pity on me and told me how to shave my beret, yeah, it was BAD, I laugh about it now, but don't worry, they got me all squared away before I went to fort sam for OBC, I was probably one of the most polished non prior enlisted there because of them)...

 

[jonb12997]

ok, I suppose I should have put a qualifier on that statement I just made... please don't let me scare you away. It's a great opportunity, and i'm loving it! i wish I could have been in for all 4 years of school instead of just these last two... I just wanted to make sure you weren't getting false hopes and depending on getting that money started and you end up getting disappointed, but instead that you'd be pleasently surprised if it does go better for you than it did for me. (I'm in Maine btw)...

(anyone go to the RC-OBC this past July into August?)

 

[Spineman]

Thanks for the heads up. Can you tell me how long the training is during the summer, as I don't know when I will be able to get to it. I start my 3rd year next June and the Boards are at the end of May. Not sure about this, thanks for the input.

 

[notdeadyet]

Thanks for the heads up. Can you tell me how long the training is during the summer, as I don't know when I will be able to get to it. I start my 3rd year next June and the Boards are at the end of May. Not sure about this, thanks for the input.

OBLC is a 25 day in-person course. Scheduling it can be tricky because it's only offered five times a year. This "summer" it's offered 04/10-05/05, 06/16-07/12 and 08/14-09/09. The other two dates are fall and winter.

I'm looking into the program as well. I'm just starting my second year, with no break in between second/third or third/fourth year (our schedule's a bit weird). I've gotten my school's permission to use fourth year elective time to go to OBLC then. You might be able to as well. You are asked to go to OBLC within 24 months of signing up but that is waiverable to 42 months.

I was told if I submit the paperwork today, I could start as early as December or as late as February. jonb12997 is right about this not being a fast process.

Best of luck...

 

[amindwalker]

It took me ten months, but much of that was due to MEPS. It took 3 months just to get to MEPS (I was 38, my Dad had always been my doctor, so my medical records didn't include all the stuff for which he had treated me at home; broken wrist, broken fibula, etc. I had disclosed everything, so the MEPS docs wanted xrays before I could get scheduled, blah, blah, blah).

Then, I had to get waivers for LASIK eye surgery and for being overweight (I lift weights and have an athletic build and a great BMI, but the army still considered me to be fat). Once I was cleared medically, the process moved a bit faster.

 

[edmadison]

Sooooo here's a crazy question that I cannot even believe I'm asking:

Once I'm done with my service obligation, I will ETS and go into fellowship. Could I join the Guard and do STRAP, or a similar program, and get this benefit combined with my GI Bill? If so, I'd be getting like 3800/month.

Ed

 

[Spineman]

Also, is there a bonus associated with this program?

 

[notdeadyet]

Also, is there a bonus associated with this program?

A lot of the bennies vary by state. I know in California there is no sign-on bonus and tuition assistance. Other states I've heard of tuition help. Haven't heard of any sign-on bonus for the program you're looking at. Not without extending your obligation via the STRAPy programs.

 

[amindwalker]

The Guard has a 75K sign-on bonus for physicians (for an extra 3 year obligation). I plan to take it after the loan replacement and STRAP. Perhaps it will be more by then.

edmadison: Are you HPSP now? If so, I do think you could join the Guard (or perhaps transfer) after your service obligation. I don't know much about the GI bill yet, perhaps you could spread the word.

 

[EMH]

I was told if I submit the paperwork today, I could start as early as December or as late as February. jonb12997 is right about this not being a fast process.

Best of luck...

I find this upsetting. My recruiter told me August and my physical is July 22nd. Is it possible it would be much faster if there's no hang ups in the physical?

 

[jonb12997]

I had no hang ups on my physical. It took a long time for the board in St. Louis to approve my packet. that was my hang up...

 

[spicedmanna]

I find this upsetting. My recruiter told me August and my physical is July 22nd. Is it possible it would be much faster if there's no hang ups in the physical?

Almost everything in the military takes a while. Get used to it. The scrolls process tends to take a good chunk of time.

 

[EMH]

https://www.hrc.army.mil/site/reserve/soldierservices/retirement/retirementcalc.asp

At the above link you can calculate your retirement with the guard (I think). I can't access this site. Would someone that can mind to plug in some numbers and give me some sort of idea what retirement would be (feel free to PM me if you wish):

20 years service
Retired in 2028
Retired at O-6
1500 points
reach age 60 in 2038

 

[TheGoose]

Grade Over 20 Years Over 22 Years Over 24 Years Over 26 Years Over 28 Years Over 30 Years Over 32 Years Over 34 Years Over 36 Years Over 38 Years Over 40 Years COL (O6) 0.588 0.603 0.619 0.649 0.649 0.662 0.662 0.662 0.662 0.662 0.662

 

[TheGoose]

I try again to make it look readable:

Grade COL (O6)
Over 20 Years : 0.588
Over 22 Years : 0.603
Over 24 Years : 0.619
Over 26 Years : 0.649
Over 28 Years : 0.649
Over 30 Years : 0.662
Over 32 Years: 0.662
Over 34 Years : 0.662
Over 36 Years : 0.662
Over 38 Years : 0.662
Over 40 Years : 0.662

 

[EMH]

I try again to make it look readable:

Grade COL (O6)
Over 20 Years : 0.588
Over 22 Years : 0.603
Over 24 Years : 0.619
Over 26 Years : 0.649
Over 28 Years : 0.649
Over 30 Years : 0.662
Over 32 Years: 0.662
Over 34 Years : 0.662
Over 36 Years : 0.662
Over 38 Years : 0.662
Over 40 Years : 0.662

I'm confused by this and the problem is probably with my understanding of the process. What are these #'s?

 

[EMH]

I found this formula while browsing around.

Take total # of points earned.
Divide by 360.
This gives your equivalent years of service.

Multiply by 2.5%
This gives you a multiplier that you multiply by your average base pay for the last 3 years you served.

So based upon the info I gave it would be something around $900 a month. Doesn't sound so good. I'm still confused by the numbers the goose posted.

 

[TheGoose]

by no means am i an expert but i assumed that the percentages referred to the percentage of your salary. so if you had a salary of 80k, after 20 years you would get 80,000 x .588 = 47040 retired pay...

thats just my interpretation though - im not a real military guy yet

P.S. i just copied and pasted what that website said

 

[EMH]

by no means am i an expert but i assumed that the percentages referred to the percentage of your salary. so if you had a salary of 80k, after 20 years you would get 80,000 x .588 = 47040 retired pay...

thats just my interpretation though - im not a real military guy yet

P.S. i just copied and pasted what that website said

That's got to be too high. The full time army retirement is only 50% of your final base pay. Maybe it's .588 of the full time army's pay. Think I'll ask this question over here: http://www.1800goguard.com/forums/index.php and share the answer I find out.

 

[Tiger26]

ok, I suppose I should have put a qualifier on that statement I just made... please don't let me scare you away. It's a great opportunity, and i'm loving it! i wish I could have been in for all 4 years of school instead of just these last two... I just wanted to make sure you weren't getting false hopes and depending on getting that money started and you end up getting disappointed, but instead that you'd be pleasently surprised if it does go better for you than it did for me. (I'm in Maine btw)...

(anyone go to the RC-OBC this past July into August?)

I was there . . .

 

[TheGoose]

That's got to be too high. The full time army retirement is only 50% of your final base pay. Maybe it's .588 of the full time army's pay. Think I'll ask this question over here: http://www.1800goguard.com/forums/index.php and share the answer I find out.

ok. to be honest i just posted what the site showed when i typed in your info. it didnt give any insight as to what the numbers meant. sorry to cause confusion =/ i was just trying to help -- if you find out what it actually means from the guard give us an update so that we can understand it

 

[hamminitup]

A few assumptions I'd like to verify.
-The Army National Guard will give me officer's pay for three years during medical school for helping recruit other medical professions students for them.
-Nobody really knows how much time I'll have to commit to those recruiting efforts or if there are productivity measures I must meet (in terms of referrals).
-I am not deployable during medical school or internship year, but I am deployable during residency (for a max of 90 days at a time).
-My active commitment will be over once I'm done with residency (three more years of medical school + one year of internship + plus at least two years of residency = 6 years) assuming that I don't take any of the extra stipends.
-During my three years of medical school, I only have to do my recruiting duties and work four or five weekends a year.

Additionally, I've looked at some of the paperwork for this program in Alabama, and not all of this is spelled out in language I can understand. I've heard that if a recruiter signs a document I draft stating all of these things, then the ArNG would either have to abide by those promises or release me. Is this true?

thanks guys

 

[amindwalker]

Anything you sign may be valid, but subject to the requirements of the service. That is why some HPSPers match into one residency, but end up in another. This phenomenon explains why every now and then you might encounter someone who is double boarded in peds and OBGYN, or peds and derm, or peds and plastics, or peds and radiology (or so I've been told by the mil docs I know). Certainly, there could be good reasons for some of these double boards, but peds/OBGYN...creepy.

You will not be deployed during residency at all. Of course I do not have crystal balls, but that's the policy. Again, it is all subject to the requirements of the service, but if it happens once, med student/physician recruitment will be in the toilet. HPSPers could just as easily be yanked out of med school and sent to Iraq to do...OMG, they're not qualified to do anything, and they're officers!!! Fellowships, however are free game, 'cuz by then, you're usually boarded in something usefull.

The amount of work you'll be expected to do during school varies from state to state.

 

[iatrosB]

Almost everything in the military takes a while. Get used to it. The scrolls process tends to take a good chunk of time.

yeah, I'm still waiting for DC to approve my packet!

Hope I make the Sept board.

 

[notdeadyet]

I can only speak for the paper's I've seen that I'm kicking around. Your mileage may vary.

-The Army National Guard will give me officer's pay for three years during medical school for helping recruit other medical professions students for them.
-Nobody really knows how much time I'll have to commit to those recruiting efforts or if there are productivity measures I must meet (in terms of referrals).

The punchlist I have for duties during medical school amount to stocking shelves of brochures and running occassional lunch meetings. There aren't any goals that were specifically advertised, from what I've seen.

-I am not deployable during medical school or internship year, but I am deployable during residency (for a max of 90 days at a time).

The paperwork I've seen says no deployment during residency either. After that, current policy is for 90 days "boots in sand" but that can be up to 120 days if you include pre- and post-obligations stateside.

-My active commitment will be over once I'm done with residency (three more years of medical school + one year of internship + plus at least two years of residency = 6 years) assuming that I don't take any of the extra stipends.

Check. Six years, plus two in IRR to make the 8 years for MSO.

-During my three years of medical school, I only have to do my recruiting duties and work four or five weekends a year.

The Flexi Training, from what I've seen, advertises as little as a four hour block every three months. Folks on this program have confirmed this.

But it says in very clear terms that this is up to the discretion of your commander. I told the recruiter I'd like to speak to whoever would be my CO for my time in med school and possibly residency to make sure we were on the same page and he said this was common.

As amindwalker says, though, all of this stuff is policy now, but there's nothing to say the rules can't change as you go along. The 90 days boots in sand sound good, but if the tempo picks up or we decided to give Iran a go, that could evaporate quickly.

 

[edmadison]

Does anyone feel like there's something missing here?

Why would the guard give all these benefits to people who will really never do any guard stuff and won't ever be eligible to deploy? What's in it for them. I know you'll have to do some minimal recruiting duties, but come on! That's nothing compared to the money involved. I'm just wondering where the downside is.

Ed

 

[notdeadyet]

Why would the guard give all these benefits to people who will really never do any guard stuff and won't ever be eligible to deploy?

I asked my recruiter this as well. When something seems to good to be true...

His response was that the Guard has very high retention rates for physicians. Prior to the war, a whole lot of folks who went Guard stayed and did their 20. The regular weekend service isn't bad and the two weeks was often humanitarian missions that docs seemed to like. Activations tended to be around natural disasters that doctors liked helping out on. You get nice benefits and a nice retirement package after your 20.

With the stituation now, things are obviously different, but the Guard is hoping to increase enrollment long term. His logic is that the folks signing up for the scholarship now will be done with their 6 year commitment in 2014. The tempo will most likely be a lot different by then and at least this way they'll already have docs in the pipeline who may stay on if the situation looks sweeter than it does now.

My personal take? If things get worse, anyone who takes the ADSW/ASR scholarship is, at the end of the day, a commissioned officer in AMEDD. You can be stop-lossed, you can have your tour extended and you can see any residency deferments go bye-bye. I can't imagine what war would have to look like to have them cold draft doctors off the Selective Service banks in this day and age, but I can easily imagine them doing what they want with National Guard docs.

I have the 90 days boots in sand and the flexi training program in writing, but I don't kid myself. Those are current policies. All of which can change depending on the needs of the Army. Folks not comfortable with that concept (and who can blame them? I wouldn't accept it from my cable company) would be best of not signing up, imho.

 

[TheGoose]

notdeadyet, would you mind expanding on your "recruitment duties" as outlined to you...id appreciate it (feel free to pm if you dont want to go into details here)

 

[notdeadyet]

notdeadyet, would you mind expanding on your "recruitment duties" as outlined to you...id appreciate it (feel free to pm if you dont want to go into details here)

I am not in the National Guard. I have the paperwork and am still looking it over before I decide. amindwalker is a current member of the program as are some of the others on the thread and they could give you a better idea than me. The only duties I was told were the ones in my post above.

Can folks who are in the ASR/ADSW give TheGoose a description of what your actual "recruitment duties" are?

 

[hamminitup]

Please either post your responsibilities or pm me as well. I'd appreciate it.

I completely agree that this seems too good to be true. I have three more years of medical school, one year of internship, and if I do a residency that's four years or more, I'll be done with even my inactive reserve before finishing residency. If I'm not deployable at any point during my medical training, I really don't see why they'd pay me all of that money in hopes that I like it and want to extend my commitment. I really wish someone would explain the negatives to this program for a person in my situation (not going to take any of the extra bonuses or stipends that incur add-ons and probably going to do a residency that is four or more years). I'm very wary about signing up because it looks like I'll get paid quite a bit for doing very little, and that just doesn't jive.

 

[amindwalker]

The duties are not set in stone, but the specifics are determined by your C.O. It varies state to state. All I do is go to school in uniform (ACU) 2-3 times/week. When people ask me why I'm in uniform, I tell them about the program. I then refer interested parties to AMEDD, who takes them from there. Since May, I've referred 8 people to my state Guard from my school and about 25 or so to a regional recruiter. Needless to say, my chain of command is quite satisfied with me. The deal is too good to be true, but it really is true. It is therefore pretty easy to promote, It takes very little time and is not a problem at all during school.

 

[Tyrone Biggums]

Since med school is a 4 year deal, and this is a 3 year program what happens during the 4th year if a student signs on to the ASR program beginning with 1st year? This has been unclear from the documents about the program.

 

[amindwalker]

If someone is able to get commissioned into the Guard at the beginning of 1st year, then the active duty/ASR billet would be for just the first 3 years. After that, you would become a garden variety Guard med student. You could then take the stipend for 4th year if you wanted to. Keep in mind that after 2 years in the Guard, you'll get promoted to 1LT, which means nearly a 1K/month pay raise. So you are looking at earning in the neighborhood of $150K over 3 years. To some of you, that may not seem like much, but for the average, everyday kinda med student, it's pretty damn good. Also, bear in mind that some of that is not taxable (BAH, BAS), and in many states, military personnel don't pay state and local taxes on their mil pay. Bottom line, if you are fortunate enough to get the whole commissioning process completed and get sworn in prior to the 1st day of 1st year, the above is for you. I for one, will be a doctor before the 3 years are up .

 

[EMH]

Fellowships, however are free game, 'cuz by then, you're usually boarded in something usefull.

I read the Arkansas NG policy that states when you can't be deployed and it clearly states you can't be deployed as a resident but it says that fellowship deployment deferments will be considered on a case by case basis.

It is worth noting that what you sign when you sign up is a contract and can't be changed. Policies can be changed at any time. At least this is how I've been informed. Once you talk to recruiters in your state ask to talk to a doc or two in your states guard. They usually will tell you how it is. Ask your recruiter for policies that state what they're telling you if it's something important to you.

 

[EMH]

As amindwalker says, though, all of this stuff is policy now, but there's nothing to say the rules can't change as you go along. The 90 days boots in sand sound good, but if the tempo picks up or we decided to give Iran a go, that could evaporate quickly.

This is one of the points I'm going to know in the back of my head is possible to change by the time I'm deployable but the optimist in me things that >90 day deployments for docs isn't in the best interest of the guard. My deputy state surgeon said that this was a necessary change to keep docs from leaving. A doc in a solo private practice who has to leave for a year will have some serious problems with his practice, both financial and with patients picking a new doc while their gone. I figure after I'm done with residency I'll have 1 year left on my IRR that I will spend active with my states guard. I can work locums tennens that year and see how things are before I go try to find a job or open a practice. For what it's worth I still don't know what I'm going to specialize in.

 

[EMH]

Please either post your responsibilities or pm me as well. I'd appreciate it.

I completely agree that this seems too good to be true. I have three more years of medical school, one year of internship, and if I do a residency that's four years or more, I'll be done with even my inactive reserve before finishing residency. If I'm not deployable at any point during my medical training, I really don't see why they'd pay me all of that money in hopes that I like it and want to extend my commitment. I really wish someone would explain the negatives to this program for a person in my situation (not going to take any of the extra bonuses or stipends that incur add-ons and probably going to do a residency that is four or more years). I'm very wary about signing up because it looks like I'll get paid quite a bit for doing very little, and that just doesn't jive.

As someone who is still a civilian and thinking of joining I'll just echo what is the common message of everyone on this board. Don't join just for the money. As a doc in my states guard told me, "don't expect much out of them and be prepared to give more than they ask up front." Know what it is that you're signing up for.

You're signing up to help defend your country against threats at home and abroad. What the threats will be, and your obligation are unknown. I feel blessed to be a U.S. citizen. I want to give back to help take care of our soldiers and citizens.