National Guard instead of HPSP?

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Hey what function do you have when you drill while in med school and while in residency? I mean while in med school I might have 0 prior military training and 0 medical training(not even an m.d.), so what would i be doing? Is it possible, if you volunteer, to do some military training? For example to take an infantry course the summer before med school and drill as an infantry officer? Or to go on some "humanitarian" missions during the summers of med school?

Also am i correct to understand that you get the same salary as USUHS students while in school (even higher as you're promoted to O-2 after 2nd year) but instead of a 7yr commitment after residency, you only have a short part-time commitment?
thanks

Really, you don't have much "purpose" per say when you drill as a medical student. Amindwalker can tell you more, but you're basically supposed to study and do well in school.

As for USUHS, that's true, but remember, this program doesn't cover tuition so you still have those loans.

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I ran the 12 lead when I used to drill.

iatrosB, is that your new bike?
 
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was he right about the same salary as a USUHS student? i got the impression it was less
 
2LT pay is 2LT pay. The USUHS kids get 2LT pay for 4 years. Their school is free (to them) but they owe quite a bit of active duty time after they complete their military residency. I still think we get the better deal, not to mention that we can get promoted a lot faster :D.
 
I still think we get the better deal, not to mention that we can get promoted a lot faster :D.

No contest. Here's why:
ARNG HPSP or USUHS
Civilian residency vs. Military Residency
No GMO vs. GMO????
Shorter obligation vs. 4+ years after residency
24 day OBC vs. 6 week OBC

Here's a plus that people don't mention. Since the HPSP $ is all considered financial aid, you will probably have maxed out your school's cost of attendance with the stipend and tuition they pay, which means you can't go back to the financial aid office and barrow any money. With the ASR it's not a scholarship it's a job. You still have access to Stafford loans if you need it. And since tuition at my school is only around 18k a year, the $ I get from the ASR turns out to be more than I would get total from the HPSP.

No brainer.
 
Yes sir.

YZF 1000, aka Thunderace...ridiculous fast!! :eek: very fun. :thumbup:

This adds nothing of relevance to the conversation, but I misread the name of your motorcycle. I could have sworn it said Thunderface, and I thought to myself that it was the greatest motorcycle name ever. Sorry to interrupt.
 
No contest. Here's why:
ARNG HPSP or USUHS
Civilian residency vs. Military Residency
No GMO vs. GMO????
Shorter obligation vs. 4+ years after residency
24 day OBC vs. 6 week OBC

Here's a plus that people don't mention. Since the HPSP $ is all considered financial aid, you will probably have maxed out your school's cost of attendance with the stipend and tuition they pay, which means you can't go back to the financial aid office and barrow any money. With the ASR it's not a scholarship it's a job. You still have access to Stafford loans if you need it. And since tuition at my school is only around 18k a year, the $ I get from the ASR turns out to be more than I would get total from the HPSP.

No brainer.

(i'm a pre-med) but say i were to attend a private OOS school where tuition is ~40k and living expenses total ~20k per academic year, so total cost/yr = ~60k. would HPSP be a better option than ASR if attending an OOS, private med school?

also, on this website: http://usmilitary.about.com/od/guardandreserve/l/bltuition.htm,
i see that some states provide 100% program coverage. however, is that 100% coverage only for IN-STATE, PUBLIC universities (ex. Florida STATE), and not private universities?
 
blackajack: this is intended for you, to read through before pulling the trigger on something like ASR or HPSP. Others can read it if they're so inclined.

(disclosure: I'm currently in the process of applying for the National Guard ASR program. I looked into HPSP for about a year before ruling it out).

No one is going to be able to tell you the most financially sound options. There are just too many variables. You need to look at your situation and make some calculations. Some you can do now, some will be guesses.

Here's an example:

ASR will pay you about $51K/yr for three years (this is for me as married in California. Yours may be off by as much as $4k). In addition, you are eligible for a federal tuition grant of $4,500 each year. Total benefit to you would be about $166,500.

HPSP will pay you about $22,800/yr for four years plus cover your tuition. At your school, with tuition of $40K, this total benefit would be about $251,800.

So HPSP is the better deal. For the four years you are in medical school, anyway.

What happens after that? Well, it depends on the program:

ASR- You are a civilian free to take whatever residency program you are accepted to. For most residencies, you will fulfill your six year Guard commitment before you even finish, so you could functionally resign your commission (with two years in IRR) if you so wanted. If you decided to keep your commission, you would drill every month for a weekend plus two weeks a year. Current policy for mobilization is 90 days boots in sand (120 days max) every 18 months. Incidentally, I can't imagine us still being at that tempo when you come into practice in 7-10 years. We'd be bankrupt long before then. But there's no saying we won't find a new war by then.

HPSP- you will do a military internship. After that, whether you do a 2-4 year GMO tour or go straight through into residency depends on your service and your specialty. For non-competitive specialties, you might be able to go straight through. For pseudo-competitive specialties, it will be very service depenent (if you are EM-bound Army, you might have a 50/50 shot; if you are EM-bound Navy, you will go GMO first). After you finish your residency, you will practice as a military physician until your commitment is up. Depending on if you did a GMO tour and what residency you persued, this will be able to leave the service anywhere from 7-12 years after you graduated medical school.

Whether HPSP is more financially sound than ASR in the long term is going to largely depend on that last sentence. If you are in a decent paying specialty of any kind, ASR will be much more cost effective than HPSP. This is greatly compounded the longer you stay in the service. This is even more compounded if you are in a high paying specialty. There is a difference in pay between civilian an military practice. They are more comparable for low paying specialties (though civilian still has the prospect of going up faster than military); they are extremely pronounced for more higher paying specialties.

At the end of the day, HPSP will be more cost effective than ASR pretty much only if you are going to attend an expensive medical school, followed by a short military career in primary care.

DO NOT take either scholarship just for the money. Do it because you want to serve your country. After that, ask yourself, how do I want to serve my country, for how long, and how important is my ability to stop service when my needs or the needs of my family change?

Deciding between ASR and HPSP, I asked this and decided I liked the idea of ASR in which I would serve my country at time of war and my state in time of need. I like the idea that I'd be able to get the best medical training in the country that I was capable of (read: civilian residency) in any field I wanted, and keep my skills sharp in civilian practice. If my country felt it needed me in time of crisis, I'd be well suited to be able to contribute.

I ruled out HPSP because of the risk of a GMO tour (in which your skills atrophy as you wait to finish your training the way the medical community feels you need to), the risk of substandard training (some military residencies are on par with civilian ones, many, from what I've seen ,are not best-of-breed due), and the possibility of my skills being wasted in peacetime military stateside practice (volume is a problem in both surgical fields and emergency medicine).

If you dream of the career and lifestyle of a military officer, HPSP has a certain attraction. If you dream of serving your country when needed and being more-or-less a civilian when not, with the freedom to leave the service when you choose, ASR has great appeal. The two programs couldn't be more different.

Hope this helps...
 
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Ugh. Just noticed how long that was. Way too tired to edit it down though. My apologies...
 
blackajack: this is intended for you, to read through before pulling the trigger on something like ASR or HPSP. Others can read it if they're so inclined.

(disclosure: I'm currently in the process of applying for the National Guard ASR program. I looked into HPSP for about a year before ruling it out).

No one is going to be able to tell you the most financially sound options. There are just too many variables. You need to look at your situation and make some calculations. Some you can do now, some will be guesses.

Here's an example:

ASR will pay you about $51K/yr for three years (this is for me as married in California. Yours may be off by as much as $4k). In addition, you are eligible for a federal tuition grant of $4,500 each year. Total benefit to you would be about $166,500.

HPSP will pay you about $22,800/yr for four years plus cover your tuition. At your school, with tuition of $40K, this total benefit would be about $251,800.

So HPSP is the better deal. For the four years you are in medical school, anyway.

What happens after that? Well, it depends on the program:

ASR- You are a civilian free to take whatever residency program you are accepted to. For most residencies, you will fulfill your six year Guard commitment before you even finish, so you could functionally resign your commission (with two years in IRR) if you so wanted. If you decided to keep your commission, you would drill every month for a weekend plus two weeks a year. Current policy for mobilization is 90 days boots in sand (120 days max) every 18 months. Incidentally, I can't imagine us still being at that tempo when you come into practice in 7-10 years. We'd be bankrupt long before then. But there's no saying we won't find a new war by then.

HPSP- you will do a military internship. After that, whether you do a 2-4 year GMO tour or go straight through into residency depends on your service and your specialty. For non-competitive specialties, you might be able to go straight through. For pseudo-competitive specialties, it will be very service depenent (if you are EM-bound Army, you might have a 50/50 shot; if you are EM-bound Navy, you will go GMO first). After you finish your residency, you will practice as a military physician until your commitment is up. Depending on if you did a GMO tour and what residency you persued, this will be able to leave the service anywhere from 7-12 years after you graduated medical school.

Whether HPSP is more financially sound than ASR in the long term is going to largely depend on that last sentence. If you are in a decent paying specialty of any kind, ASR will be much more cost effective than HPSP. This is greatly compounded the longer you stay in the service. This is even more compounded if you are in a high paying specialty. There is a difference in pay between civilian an military practice. They are more comparable for low paying specialties (though civilian still has the prospect of going up faster than military); they are extremely pronounced for more higher paying specialties.

At the end of the day, HPSP will be more cost effective than ASR pretty much only if you are going to attend an expensive medical school, followed by a short military career in primary care.

DO NOT take either scholarship just for the money. Do it because you want to serve your country. After that, ask yourself, how do I want to serve my country, for how long, and how important is my ability to stop service when my needs or the needs of my family change?

Deciding between ASR and HPSP, I asked this and decided I liked the idea of ASR in which I would serve my country at time of war and my state in time of need. I like the idea that I'd be able to get the best medical training in the country that I was capable of (read: civilian residency) in any field I wanted, and keep my skills sharp in civilian practice. If my country felt it needed me in time of crisis, I'd be well suited to be able to contribute.

I ruled out HPSP because of the risk of a GMO tour (in which your skills atrophy as you wait to finish your training the way the medical community feels you need to), the risk of substandard training (some military residencies are on par with civilian ones, many, from what I've seen ,are not best-of-breed due), and the possibility of my skills being wasted in peacetime military stateside practice (volume is a problem in both surgical fields and emergency medicine).

If you dream of the career and lifestyle of a military officer, HPSP has a certain attraction. If you dream of serving your country when needed and being more-or-less a civilian when not, with the freedom to leave the service when you choose, ASR has great appeal. The two programs couldn't be more different.

Hope this helps...

notdeadyet, thank you for that extremely helpful comparison. i've been weighing my options and am now considering ASR (mainly because of your post). i was back and forth with starting an application process for HPSP this whole summer, but now realize for myself the importance of having more flexible options when applying for residency. again, thanks a lot!
 
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notdeadyet, thank you for that extremely helpful comparison. i've been weighing my options and am now considering ASR (mainly because of your post).
No sweat. amindwalker and iatrosB are both currently in the program and can give you better feedback on how they actually like being in the ASR program. I'm only in the application phase myself.
i was back and forth with starting an application process for HPSP this whole summer, but now realize for myself the importance of having more flexible options when applying for residency. again, thanks a lot!
HPSP is a great program for some people, but it's a great program for far fewer people than the number who actually sign up. There are a lot of unhappy folks who regret their decision looking back.

If you absolutely hate the National Guard for some reason, you can resign your commission not long after you begin regular drilling. You'll just have to tolerate a year (if that) of doing one weekend/month of something you don't care for..

If you take HPSP and absolutely hate it for some reason, you'll be hating life for the next 7 or 12 years. You will be functionally owned by a system and way of life you don't like. That's a heavy yoke to carry.

And if you find you love ASR and wish you'd gone full-time instead, you can always go active duty Army if you want at a later time. It's really a win-win situation with ASR. Your military service can be a part-time factor in our life all the way up to your primary focus.
 
Any one doing the AMEDD/ADSW/NG med student program in WV?

Any current first year students?

Sounds tempting.

:D
 
If I have 3.5 years prior service - active Army...

Would I get O1E pay ? Anyone know what my starting pay would be ...

I'm a bit confused as it looks like O1E pay starts at >4 years prior service ...

Thanks.

-s

:luck:
 
If I have 3.5 years prior service - active Army...

Would I get O1E pay ? Anyone know what my starting pay would be ...

I'm a bit confused as it looks like O1E pay starts at >4 years prior service ...

Thanks.

-s

:luck:

You will not be eligible for 0-1E pay with only 3.5 years active enlisted service. You need at least 4 years and 1 day. Did you happen to join the Reserves after active duty and rack up half a year of being on active orders (deployment, annual training, TDY, PME schools, etc...)? If so, you would qualify.
 
You will not be eligible for 0-1E pay with only 3.5 years active enlisted service. You need at least 4 years and 1 day. Did you happen to join the Reserves after active duty and rack up half a year of being on active orders (deployment, annual training, TDY, PME schools, etc...)? If so, you would qualify.


No. The 0.5 part of the 3.5 IS from my time activated and deployed to the first Gulf War....there's no way I have 4 years (unless they'd count time as a federal employee -- which I doubt they do) ....

So my pay would be the same as someone with no prior service?

Thanks for the help.

-S
 
I'm a married man, so I'm used to being wrong all day. However I submit that O1E requires 4 years of enlisted service, whether active or reserve/Guard (just like time in grade). It might be worth looking into:xf:. Again, I could be wrong. ASR is fantastic! Do it anyway.
 
So my pay would be the same as someone with no prior service?

No, it won't be the same as a non prior because you still get credit for your 3.5 years of service. It just wasn't enough to get O-1E. Your pay will be O-1 with over 3 years, giving you a base pay of $3215.10 while you are active duty. A non-prior would be an O-1 with under 2 years, earning a base pay of $2555.70.

I'm a married man, so I'm used to being wrong all day. However I submit that O1E requires 4 years of enlisted service, whether active or reserve/Guard (just like time in grade). It might be worth looking into:xf:. Again, I could be wrong. ASR is fantastic! Do it anyway.

To get the "E", you must have 4 years and 1 day of active enlisted or warrant officer service. It is technically possible to earn the "E" through guard/reserve service, but you would have to accumulate at least 1460 points.
 
I'm looking for what Florida offers on this and can't find the website. I'm thinking I'll do ANG over ARNG because of the waitlist...
 
I'm looking for what Florida offers on this and can't find the website. I'm thinking I'll do ANG over ARNG because of the waitlist...

Unless recently added, the ANG does not have an ASR program for medical students. While they do have med student programs they are quite different from those in the ARNG. If you speak to an ANG recruiter and find out details of what they offer to med students would you please share what you find here?
 
Unless recently added, the ANG does not have an ASR program for medical students. While they do have med student programs they are quite different from those in the ARNG. If you speak to an ANG recruiter and find out details of what they offer to med students would you please share what you find here?

I will this week - I'll post the FL info if I hear any different than what I found on here so far. One of the first posts said there's a $75,000 bonus if you want to go 3 more years. Is that available when you commission or when you're done with your previous commitment? After still more research, I think the ARNG is still the best option (unless FL has some amazing ANG incentive). I'm no money *****, but a comfortable living while a student is a huge plus.

EDIT: Looks like it's if you're already a physician... http://www.nationalguard.com/explore/medical/hpb.php

Totally cool though - I worked for a year on a base and I'd want to serve for more than the minimum. Can't beat USAA interest rates and car shopping either :)
 
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I plan on starting med school in 2012, but am considering joing the Guard now. Assuming the ASR/ADSW is still around in two years, would joining the Guard now have any benefits/drawbacks in terms if trying to get the ASR/ADSW in two years? I appreciate any insight you can provide.
 
I was told that major was a pretty much automatic promotion after 4 years and then LTC isn't a hard promotion to get but getting COL requires some effort and maneuvering.
 
I plan on starting med school in 2012, but am considering joing the Guard now. Assuming the ASR/ADSW is still around in two years, would joining the Guard now have any benefits/drawbacks in terms if trying to get the ASR/ADSW in two years? I appreciate any insight you can provide.

The pros and cons would depend greatly on what program you join the Guard through. The universal pro would be time in service and time toward retirement. The major con to worry about would be any possible risk of deployment.

The next major con is that if you've already been in the Guard for a year and half, they don't really have a lot of incentive to give you something like ASR or ADSW. It's a recruiting incentive, not a bonus. You'd still be able to do MDSSP or such though.

Something like the Simultaneous Membership Program for ROTC followed by MDSSP could work out nicely for the right person, but it would take a careful look at the incentives and risks...
 
I am currently a PGY1 and have been going through the process of joining ARNG for a few months now. I actually went through MEPS about 3 months ago and found out I was pregnant :uhno: They told me that I am ineligible to enroll until 6 months after delivery/termination. I thought for sure I would be an exception to this rule since I am supposedly protected from deployment during residency. My recruiter thought I was exempt as well. But nope, new rule says there are NO exceptions! However, females are required to wait only 2 months, not 6.

Turns out I had a miscarriage and now almost 2 months later, my blood work is finally negative for bHCG. Ready to get the ball rolling again, I emailed my recruiter and he informed me that we can now get our physicals done through a civilian doc! Just fill out a form, I'll receive an email from NGB within 1-3 days, get my physical within 5 days of that, and then my recruiter can take over on the packet again. Seems like a quicker process so I'll keep my fingers crossed!
 
This thread is about two years old, but I just stumbled across it. Anyone know if the ARNG ASR program is still... a program?
 
This thread is about two years old, but I just stumbled across it. Anyone know if the ARNG ASR program is still... a program?
No it's not. It's still operating for those already in it, but they have not taken applications for almost a year. The last ASRs started on 01 JAN 2010. There are NO plans to restart the ASR program.
 
Notdead yet is correct about the ASR program. It now looks like it won't be back in the near future. They are shifting their recruiting efforts to residents and board certified physicians.

I'm curious what program you are signing up for as a PGY1, are you planning to take the STRAP? Good luck to you on MEPS, it's the most difficult part for non-prior service without any past legal issues.

-posted from BOLC (they have showers, heat/air, and electricity at Bullis now!)
 
-posted from BOLC (they have showers, heat/air, and electricity at Bullis now!)
I'm shocked they installed the showers so quick. I finished up there three weeks ago and they were just sitting there.

Are you doing the three FTX's broken up by a weekend each? The whole idea of the showers, apparently, was to allow a new schedule for death-by-powerpoint for a week or so then a solid two weeks at Camp Bullis.

Intriguing, but our broken up schedule gave LOTS of days off.

Hope you're having fun, EMH. Let us know how you get on...
 
I'm curious what program you are signing up for as a PGY1, are you planning to take the STRAP? Good luck to you on MEPS, it's the most difficult part for non-prior service without any past legal issues.

No specific program, just the good ol' basic National Guard :) For Michigan, we can take special pay ($25,000 right now but due for an increase soon!) for up to 20 years until we retire, with the exception, of course, for the three consecutive years I take the loan repayment incentive. I plan to take the special pay for 1-2 years to pay off credit cards and build up an emergency fund, then take the loan repayment for 3 years ($40k/year). I haven't decided about STRAP yet.

As for MEPS, like I said in my first post, it is not required anymore (for Michigan, anyway) :D
 
maybe I am thinking of something else but IIRC you had to be BC/BE to take unless you took STRAP also, but even then you had to be PGY3 or higher. Didn't seem like there were options other than STRAP for PGY1. May be wrong though...

Showers? At Bullis? Oh the humanity...back in MY day...;)
 
I'm shocked they installed the showers so quick. I finished up there three weeks ago and they were just sitting there.

Are you doing the three FTX's broken up by a weekend each? The whole idea of the showers, apparently, was to allow a new schedule for death-by-powerpoint for a week or so then a solid two weeks at Camp Bullis.

Intriguing, but our broken up schedule gave LOTS of days off.

Hope you're having fun, EMH. Let us know how you get on...

Just got back from week one. They didn't expect the showers to be working yet so we're doing 3 trips out with a lot of time off. We get a 3 day weekend for veterans day and 4 days for Thanksgiving. I suspect with that much time off someone will find some trouble.

I enjoyed everything we did out at the FOB so far with exception of the sitting around part and the standing in formation for 20 minutes 4-5 times a day waiting for accountability and trying to figure out what we're doing.

Weather is great:thumbup:
 
I enjoyed everything we did out at the FOB so far with exception of the sitting around part and the standing in formation for 20 minutes 4-5 times a day waiting for accountability and trying to figure out what we're doing.
Good stuff. The FTX's get better.

In case folks haven't mentioned it, when you do FTX 3 with the BAS / Level II / Level II simulations, be sure to volunteer to be a patient when you're at the BAS station. Good chance of riding in a Blackhawk to the Level III.
 
Good stuff. The FTX's get better.

In case folks haven't mentioned it, when you do FTX 3 with the BAS / Level II / Level II simulations, be sure to volunteer to be a patient when you're at the BAS station. Good chance of riding in a Blackhawk to the Level III.

The blackhawks aren't coming for us. Our FTX 3 is on the week of Thanksgiving and they said no. :(
 
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