Need help with dating- about to start residency

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Most of the girls I approach are from 27-32, professional types. The tallest was around 5'6, the rest were around 5'3 and under. I actually found that the shorter women I met really hate short men, even those taller than them by a few inches ("We wouldn't look right." "You're too short." "At least 5'9 and that's a big at least")

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A friend told me to try online dating, but my height has been a huge disadvantage in getting dates. Not to mention I'm probably not the most handsome guy out there.

You might try focussing on improving your chances in online dating as much as possible. There is a very interesting blog for OK Cupid that collects a lot of data on what features people respond to well and vice versa. You may be able to get something practical from this, for example:

http://blog.okcupid.com/index.php/dont-be-ugly-by-accident/
http://blog.okcupid.com/index.php/h...ply-to-your-messages-in-online-dating-part-i/
http://blog.okcupid.com/index.php/online-dating-advice-exactly-what-to-say-in-a-first-message/

Even some racially specific stuff:
http://blog.okcupid.com/index.php/your-race-affects-whether-people-write-you-back/
http://blog.okcupid.com/index.php/the-real-stuff-white-people-like/

Don't know if this will be a help, but in the age of data and evidence based medicine, maybe you can use evidence based dating. :)

Good luck!
 
Hey, it was nice. I've never had a date that went well before. It was a step in the right direction, for sure.
 
Dude. You are taller than half the women in this country, and taller than 25% of guys. And you know guys shorter than you are dating!

You say these women are shallow. But why would a shallow woman NOT date a doctor of all people, who is merely barely taller than her.

Everybody and their mother is telling you it is your confidence, and you keep harping on your height. More questions:

1.) Where do you live?
2.) Have you ever been on a date?
3.) Where do you meet women? Work, friends, church...
 
Most of the girls I approach are from 27-32, professional types. The tallest was around 5'6, the rest were around 5'3 and under. I actually found that the shorter women I met really hate short men, even those taller than them by a few inches ("We wouldn't look right." "You're too short." "At least 5'9 and that's a big at least")

I don't know, it seems weird. 5'5 is certainly not tall, but it's certainly not that short for a guy, and, no offense, and asian guy. Tom Cruise is your height and he's married to Katie Holmes. Sure, you are not Tom Cruise, but still. Maybe you are approaching women that are just very attractive, or maybe you are awkward, or something. It seems weird that a woman would be like oh sorry dude you are just too short for me to date! I have never met a girl who's ever told a guy that. Me being under 5'3 have dated dudes 5'4 up to 5'11. So it's not that women are shallow and that you are too short, maybe you are approaching the wrong women, or have something else going on. I would imagine that you are self conscious about your height and probably project it so that might be a turn off or that you are awkward with women, which again can be a turn off.

I don't think you are that short to the point where women are horrified and would run away from you if you approached them in a nice way. Of course bear in mind that not all women will like you, some will have a problem with your height, others with some other aspect of your person, etc. It happens to all of us, and it's just one of those aspects of dating.

I would focus on the good things, and having a good perspective and outlook on this, and trying to gain some confidence. A little confidence goes a long way. Also, as I mentioned before, I think trying a dating site would not be a bad idea. You get to "meet" a lot more people, sort out the ones you may like and not waste time with the ones you don't or who don't like you. And if you are just starting to date, realize that rejection is unfortunately just part of the dating process.
 
This thread is ridiculous....why am I still here?!?!

ShortDoc, you are not good with the ladies, that much is obvious. I'd be surprised to know that you've ever even propositioned a girl. Your height hasn't stunted you, your low self esteem has.

You are NOT a player. Most people who are, are born as such. Some develop the confidence in college. Your time has passed.

If you really are only interested in starting a family, the noblest cause for dating, I suggest you make your intentions ABUNDANTLY clear. Let your friends and family know and let your close colleagues know. Don't discount anyone, go on lots of dates, try to be sweet and honest, not suave and debonair. Also, do yourself a favor and DONT bring up your height. Presumably the girl's not stupid enough to need you to point this out to her. Besides, I'm guessing your issues are stacked a lot higher than your frame.

Good luck!
 
It depends on what you mean by 'player'. Is he ever going to be super suave and hook up with a ton of women? Then no, he will never be that. Of course, not everyone wants that either. I don't.

But if you mean can he become confident, have communication skills, be self assured, and desirable? Then no, it isn't too late for him. I'm getting the help I needed at age 27, and making changes. I'm already starting to think better about myself, and it is paying small dividends. Even though I'm still dateless, it's nice to not hate on yourself all the time.

It really is just a matter of being more confident. Thinking better of yourself, not dwelling on the past. It is never, ever too late for that. But OP really needs to get help. He isn't getting anywhere just by talking on here.
 
Be an interesting person. Your goal should be to find a partner, not someone who is supposed to fill the gaping hole in your life. Most women don't think romantically about guys that don't have a fairly full life already. Not having a lot going on socially makes us good friend material, but essentially rules out romance. If you're having trouble attracting women, spending time on developing non-romantic but SOCIAL interests (co-ed sports if you're inclined, team trivia, volunteer work) can pay off. If you're happy and reasonably fulfilled, women sense that and are more likely to want to be a part of your life. And you can't let dating failure get you down. I was striking at with average to below average looking women from college through my first year of med school, until I decided to focus on other activities after a nightmarish summer of dating. A month into M2 year, armed with the confidence of not desperately searching for female companionship, I struck up a conversation with a ridiculously beautiful woman at a post-exam party. We've been married 9 years. And I'm certain if she had met me even a year earlier, she'd have had nothing to do with me.
 
DocDanny and ShortDoctor,

The dating scene is wrecked here in America. Listen to this youtube video when you get an opportunity. There are a lot of men out there opting out this nightmare. You may need to consider going the foreign route, or finding someone who hasn't been tainted by Western feminism. I'm sure you can relate to a lot of the ideas in these videos.

"Are attractive men the losers of society?"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YobZjepvQD0&feature=related


There's a problem with the dating scene and society!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QgHOquV4lic&feature=related

"When you have no female attention, and are intelligent, successful, and are average looking. It begins to destroy your psyche." (Paraphrased from the second video)
 
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That second video was such a sob story. Being attractive is certainly helpful, and there is a small subset of men who can get women with 0 effort. But it isn't everything.

If Brad Pitt threw pity parties for himself, he'd not only get far fewer women, but would be considered unattractive by many women. Fact.

It really does come down to confidence. 100% of men who date successfully are confident. Of course, it IS easier to be confident if you have successfully dated. It's a vicious cycle. :)
 
You're 5'0" tall. You've said it yourself and you've done the online dating services. 100 messages, 0 replies,. I'm sure you're an interesting guy. Attractiveness(I'm going to lump height in there), particularly in the online dating realm, is king. I don't think it is a sob story. If you are physicially unattractive(below average to average looking) in our culture, you might as well wear a Scarlet Letter.

If Brad Pitt threw pity parties for himself, women would still be all over him because they could still show him all to their friends and show them what a catch they've got.

I hate to say it there are legions of men suffering from an inability to get dates, and form romantic relationships. It's a bigger problem than most people realize.
 
That second video was such a sob story. Being attractive is certainly helpful, and there is a small subset of men who can get women with 0 effort. But it isn't everything.

If Brad Pitt threw pity parties for himself, he'd not only get far fewer women, but would be considered unattractive by many women. Fact.

It really does come down to confidence. 100% of men who date successfully are confident. Of course, it IS easier to be confident if you have successfully dated. It's a vicious cycle. :)

I have to correct you on that. If Brad Pitt threw pity parties for himself, he'd still have women throw themselves at him bc the dude is hot, not to mention loaded. I also don't see how Brad Pitt got into this discussion on a medical forum though!
 
You're 5'0" tall. You've said it yourself and you've done the online dating services. 100 messages, 0 replies,. I'm sure you're an interesting guy. Attractiveness(I'm going to lump height in there), particularly in the online dating realm, is king. I don't think it is a sob story. If you are physicially unattractive(below average to average looking) in our culture, you might as well wear a Scarlet Letter.

If Brad Pitt threw pity parties for himself, women would still be all over him because they could still show him all to their friends and show them what a catch they've got.

I hate to say it there are legions of men suffering from an inability to get dates, and form romantic relationships. It's a bigger problem than most people realize.

Look around you! More people than not are average looking, not everyone is Brad Pitt and Angelina Jolie (since we are talking about Brad for whatever reason). I think attractive is completely subjective also, and changes between cultures.

But you are kidding yourself to think that most people are hot. Most people are not hot, but average, and they marry average people. Some people are hot and tend to marry other hot people. Some average people may marry hot people depending on other attributes. Nevertheless, most people date successfully enough to find someone to love and cherish. Your comment that there are legions of men without dates seems biased. I think the stats are that over 95% of people get married. Why can't OP find a shorter woman with whom to have a relationship with?

And you mentioned someone who's 5'0 right? Well if that person is a dude, he can find a 4'11 or whatever woman to have a relationship with. It's possible because most people do it. But a defeatist attitude is not a good way to go around it. Dating sucks for most people, with the exception being the super hot, which most of us are not.
 
Look around you! More people than not are average looking, not everyone is Brad Pitt and Angelina Jolie (since we are talking about Brad for whatever reason). I think attractive is completely subjective also, and changes between cultures.

But you are kidding yourself to think that most people are hot. Most people are not hot, but average, and they marry average people. Some people are hot and tend to marry other hot people. Some average people may marry hot people depending on other attributes. Nevertheless, most people date successfully enough to find someone to love and cherish. Your comment that there are legions of men without dates seems biased. I think the stats are that over 95% of people get married. Why can't OP find a shorter woman with whom to have a relationship with?

And you mentioned someone who's 5'0 right? Well if that person is a dude, he can find a 4'11 or whatever woman to have a relationship with. It's possible because most people do it. But a defeatist attitude is not a good way to go around it. Dating sucks for most people, with the exception being the super hot, which most of us are not.

What happens when he finds that 4'11" woman who was his type and she says, "sorry, I only date 5'10" or higher?" What happens when the next 100 4'11" women say the same thing, whether directly or through subtle rejections?
 
What happens when he finds that 4'11" woman who was his type and she says, "sorry, I only date 5'10" or higher?" What happens when the next 100 4'11" women say the same thing, whether directly or through subtle rejections?

I doubt that would happen. Somehow most men, including short ones, end up married. That is not some sort of miracle or anything. No all short women marry tall men, not all tall women marry tall men. Plenty of short women marry short men, and plenty of taller women marry short men as well. I think a 5'5 height for an Asian dude is more the norm than the exception, and given by the millions of people of Asian decent, I would imagine that most people tend to do just find in pairing off and finding a mate.
 
If Brad Pitt were the type of guy who threw pity parties and was not confident, he would not have become Brad Pitt.

No wealth, no fame, no fancy clothes or personal trainer. He's be an average guy who was handsome, but also kind of a downer to be around.
===============================

I'M the 5'0 guy he was talking about. And on top of that I have a disability, so I also have a limp. I am working on being more confident. And I recently went on a date with a woman who was 5'1. So I'm king on it.
 
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I can prove that legions of men are having difficulty with the dating scene. There are forums dedicated to this problem of dating in America.

One site is called "Love Shy: Support for the Dating challenged"

www.love-shy.com/lsbb/

The next forum is called Men Going Their Own Way. These men have completely rejected dating and marrying American women altogether.,

www.mgtowforums.com

The final website I will site is called www.happierabroad.com. These men have completely rejected dating American women, and are going the foreign route.

These men all have been rejected socially in some form or another, hence the drastic measures they are taking to reject it altogether or to find companionship. Certainly, these men have worked on their confidence, some have taken dating seminars, and some have even done "Pick Up Artist" seminars.

DocDanny, maybe you'll get something from this last video. Watch all four parts if you can. It's funny because in reading this thread, I see a lot of those shaming tactics directed at the OP. "You need confidence" clip at 4:22.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QcW4jvGicLs Part 1

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zCLjUGtgwoA&feature=relmfu Part 2

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OYevD5ftA_s&feature=relmfu Part 3

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IcCwKk16aUs&feature=relmfu Part 4
 
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If Brad Pitt were the type of guy who threw pity parties and was not confident, he would not have become Brad Pitt.

No wealth, no fame, no fancy clothes or personal trainer. He's be an average guy who was handsome, but also kind of a downer to be around.
===============================

I'M the 5'0 guy he was talking about. And on top of that I have a disability, so I also have a limp. I am working on being more confident. And I recently went on a date with a woman who was 5'1. So I'm king on it.

See there you go! There are lots and lots of short women out there, all you have to do is find one to love and who loves you back. You are not the only one with a disability, so I don't think that's the end of the world. Sure you won't snag women from Maxxim's 100 hot list, but I think you are able to find someone with whom you can be happy with. I know, easier said than done, but I think there is hope for you.
 
Whoa OP here. I didn't expect this thread to explode. I've actually not focussed much on dating or trying to get dates since I posted. Look there is one overarching thing I've learned about smart, intelligent and at least halfway average looking women in the realm of dating. Throw out chemistry, personality and confidence for a second. All a gal wants is someone to show off to her friends about what a catch she has. That's why some girls say they like dating doctors. It's not about how much money she can get off of him; it's more about the fact that he makes money. But perhaps more important than the money is a guy's physical demeanor. He does NOT have to be handsome, but he does have to be manly (and the physical trait that most characterizes this is height). Most girls are insecure to an extent that they need to prove their self worth by how desirable their guy is to the rest of the female population.

You've heard girls say they like intelligent nerds. Well that means they like tall, handsome nerds they can show off. Look I'm not trying to knock anyone's philosophy or game here, but sometimes we just have to accept life as it is. There are people out there who have lifethreatening injuries, are products of abusive lifestyles, or who suffer tragic disabilities. Be thankful for what you have. I'm glad I am on the way to having a career I love, hobbies I enjoy and to have a roof over my head every night. If I start a family, it would be great. If I can't, then I won't fold like Lebron James in the fourth. Does it hurt me when a girl I ask out acts like a b towards me? Sure. I remember trying to ask out a nurse in the OR and she told me maybe if I performed surgery on myself to get taller. It sucks, but there are a lot of things that suck. We just got to keep going.
 
The most manly trait is not height. It is being confident, and acting like a man.

And gold diggers will date a doc for money. But this is not 'most women'. A man with a career as a doctor is seen as a good catch because if you have that career, you are likely caring, intelligent, and successful.

Your attitude towards women is awfully degrading. You seem to think almost all if them are extremely shallow gold diggers who want to leech off a rich man to impress their friends because they have low self worth.

Your attitude towards women doesn't help.

I
 
The most manly trait is not height. It is being confident, and acting like a man.

And gold diggers will date a doc for money. But this is not 'most women'. A man with a career as a doctor is seen as a good catch because if you have that career, you are likely caring, intelligent, and successful.

Your attitude towards women is awfully degrading. You seem to think almost all if them are extremely shallow gold diggers who want to leech off a rich man to impress their friends because they have low self worth.

Your attitude towards women doesn't help.

I

Agreed. I actually had written a long post in reply to the previous post but it got erased somehow. Anyways, bunching all women into some stereotypical box, is just sad. Women don't just want some hot/tall dude to strut around and be like hey ! look what I got! Women want a man to love and to be loved, to form a family, have companionship, support, and a relationship. It's not all about looks, height, or money. It's sad to think that's what we are all about.

That may be part of this person's problem! Looking at women with that attitude is a major turn off.
 
So most ot this is about having "game", having "confidence", or projecting an "aura". Somebody define these terms, and how do we get them. Better yet, some one delineate how this can be project this on the online dating scene because a lot of us are turning to that.
 
Its difficult for me to tell how many of the posters here are women. I've been following this thread for awhile and, as a woman, so much of it is cringe-worthy that I'm not sure where to start.

There does seem to be a lot of perpetuating of common stereotypes here; I get that, because its always difficult for a person of one gender to decipher the thoughts, logic, desire of another gender. But I think it helps if each of us can be aware that we're prone to some stereotyping and to avoid viewing individual people that we meet as automatically having characteristics of trends we see in populations.

Do women need to be attracted, physically, to their dates/partners? Of course. The hurdle you are trying to overcome is the initial "glimpse factor," which IS tough on a dating site. I've done online dating and it can be tough to overcome a bad set of pictures no matter how interesting the guy sounds on paper. But when it comes to dating, I think I, and most women, quickly start looking for more tangible qualities in men we date. The physical attraction factor wanes VERY quickly for most well-adjusted women if the mental/emotional stimulation is lacking.

I will tell you what I 'look for" in a guy but obviously, I'm just one person. But all of this talk about wanting "tall hot men that we can show off" is ridiculous. For a serious relationship, do I want someone I can brag about? Sure, but not in the way you think. I am attracted to men who, if you'll excuse the expression "have their **** together." I also expressly avoid men who appear to be flailing or who show signs of needing a significant other to prop up their self-esteem; having a significant other should not significantly vary your sense of self or self-image for the worse OR better. Can I bring you around my friends (both male and female) and be proud of how you carry yourself? Can I brag to my girlfriends about how you show me you care about me and listen to me without crossing the line into being obsequious? Can people tell you care about me by the way you treat me, the way you talk about me when I'm not around, by the respect you show my friends and family?

Does having a steady career (not just a job) make men more attractive to most women? Absolutely. It's not about the amount of money, it is about the fact that most women want someone who will be their partner, their teammate. Can you be counted on to be dependable, to be proactive, to be self-motivated, to be strong in a crisis? These are the qualities I see in most of my male colleagues which I believe are attractive to women. Women are interested in dating doctors because they assume (and I think this is actually a pretty fair assumption) that there is a high degree of correlation between someone obtaining the degree/training of "doctor" and possessing the qualities of dependability, self-starter, ability to handle difficult situations, etc. The question most women forget to ask is "do these qualities carry over into their personal lives?" If you use up the best part of yourself at work and don't save any for me, than what good are those qualities to me?

I am only interested in men who are comfortable in their own skin and can hold a conversation on a wide variety of topics without either coming across either as a know-it-all or a poorly informed blowhard or neophyte. Be interesting, have interests, and be interested in me for something we share in common or some personality feature or quality you see in me, and not JUST my physical attributes (average though they may be).

I'm 5'3. I've dated/had serious relationships with men from 5'5-6'5. I know that some women will not date men shorter than they are as a matter of personal preference. Nothing you can do about that but it is NOT a universal quality in women. But consider this a good screening tool. Really, it sucks that some nurse told you that you needed to have surgery to get a date with her; it was really rude of her and she has no class. But really? It doesn't suck. At least you didn't get 6 months down the road and find out that she's judgmental and rude when she insults your mother's cooking the first time they meet. That exchange showed you exactly what you needed to know about that person; the only thing that exchange tells you about yourself is how you respond to it.

To the OP and others, are you putting yourself in situations with activities/interests you have where you can meet other people (including women) who have shared interests/personality types? If you're the type of person who might not fare well due to the "glimpse" factor, you're always going to do better to get to know people without the pressure of considering a romantic connection until you've developed some kind of relationship based on other factors.

From the flip side of this equation, as a female surgery resident, I find a lot of men quickly lose interest when they find out what I do for a living. I think it is far more rare for women who are school teachers, nurses, or flight attendants, etc to have that problem. But conversely? I'm not interested in anyone who doesn't want to date a woman with as much or more education than they do or who is concerned I might someday make more than them. I suggest you take the same approach and learn to like your life as a single person before you try to find someone to like your life enough to consider adding you to their own. We all get lonely sometimes - that's human nature and it is normal. But focus more on enjoying the life you have (or do what is necessary to get an interesting and enjoyable single life) instead of thinking the only flaw in your life is your lack of a significant other and I think you might be surprised at how things work out.
 
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Its difficult for me to tell how many of the posters here are women. I've been following this thread for awhile and, as a woman, so much of it is cringe-worthy that I'm not sure where to start.

There does seem to be a lot of perpetuating of common stereotypes here; I get that, because its always difficult for a person of one gender to decipher the thoughts, logic, desire of another gender. But I think it helps if each of us can be aware that we're prone to some stereotyping and to avoid viewing individual people that we meet as automatically having characteristics of trends we see in populations.

Do women need to be attracted, physically, to their dates/partners? Of course. The hurdle you are trying to overcome is the initial "glimpse factor," which IS tough on a dating site. I've done online dating and it can be tough to overcome a bad set of pictures no matter how interesting the guy sounds on paper. But when it comes to dating, I think I, and most women, quickly start looking for more tangible qualities in men we date.

I will tell you what I 'look for" in a guy but obviously, I'm just one person. But all of this talk about wanting "tall hot men that we can show off" is ridiculous. For a serious relationship, do I want someone I can brag about? Sure, but not in the way you think. I am attracted to men who, if you'll excuse the expression "have their **** together." I also expressly avoid men who appear to be flailing or who show signs of needing a significant other to prop up their self-esteem; having a significant other should not significantly vary your sense of self or self-image for the worse OR better. Can I bring you around my friends (both male and female) and be proud of how you carry yourself? Can I brag to my girlfriends about how you show me you care about me and listen to me without crossing the line into being obsequious? Can people tell you care about me by the way you treat me, the way you talk about me when I'm not around, by the respect you show my friends and family?

Does having a steady career (not just a job) make men more attractive to most women? Absolutely. It's not about the amount of money, it is about the fact that most women want someone who will be their partner, their teammate. Can you be counted on to be dependable, to be proactive, to be self-motivated, to be strong in a crisis? These are the qualities I see in most of my male colleagues which I believe are attractive to women. Women are interested in dating doctors because they assume (and I think this is actually a pretty fair assumption) that there is a high degree of correlation between someone obtaining the degree/training of "doctor" and possessing the qualities of dependability, self-starter, ability to handle difficult situations, etc.

I am only interested in men who are comfortable in their own skin and can hold a conversation on a wide variety of topics without either coming across either as a know-it-all or a poorly informed blowhard or neophyte. Be interesting, have interests, and be interested in me for something we share in common or some personality feature or quality you see in me, and not JUST my physical attributes (average though they may be).

I'm 5'3. I've dated/had serious relationships with men from 5'5-6'5. I know that some women will not date men shorter than they are as a matter of personal preference. Nothing you can do about that but it is NOT a universal quality in women. But consider this a good screening tool. Really, it sucks that some nurse told you that you needed to have surgery to get a date with her; it was really rude of her and she has no class. But really? It doesn't suck. At least you didn't get 6 months down the road and find out that she's judgmental and rude when she insults your mother's cooking the first time they meet. That exchange showed you exactly what you needed to know about that person; the only thing that exchange tells you about yourself is how you respond to it.

To the OP and others, are you putting yourself in situations with activities/interests you have where you can meet other people (including women) who have shared interests/personality types? If you're the type of person who might not fare well due to the "glimpse" factor, you're always going to do better to get to know people without the pressure of considering a romantic connection until you've developed some kind of relationship based on other factors.

From the flip side of this equation, as a female surgery resident, I find a lot of men quickly loose interest when they find out what I do for a living. I think it is far more rare for women who are school teachers, nurses, or flight attendants, etc to have that problem. But conversely? I'm not interested in anyone who doesn't want to date a woman with as much or more education than they do or who is concerned I might someday make more than them. I suggest you take the same approach and learn to like your life as a single person before you try to find someone to like your life enough to consider adding you to their own. We all get lonely sometimes - that's human nature and it is normal. But focus more on enjoying the life you have (or do what is necessary to get an interesting and enjoyable single life) instead of thinking the only flaw in your life is your lack of a significant other and I think you might be surprised at how things work out.

Precisely, this is pretty much what I and other fellow women on this thread have stated. It's as if we say "all men are pigs because they like big this and that" or all men are this and that because this one guy I met was like that.
Men can be superficial, just like women can be superficial. Do men want to be attracted to their partner? Of course, just like women. You certainly don't date/marry people you are not attracted to.

Attraction usually is what draws one person to another, but in order for a relationship to work, there has to be so much more than just attraction. Maybe OP needs to start seeing women as individuals, vs "superficial, wanting a hot dude to trot around and brag about." I for one love my husband, and I frequently brag about him, not because he's Brad Pitt's twin or anything, but because there are a ton of qualities about him that are great and that make me want to be with him vs. other dudes.
 
Any reason you didn't date guys 5'4" and below if you did not care about height at all?

Its difficult for me to tell how many of the posters here are women. I've been following this thread for awhile and, as a woman, so much of it is cringe-worthy that I'm not sure where to start.

There does seem to be a lot of perpetuating of common stereotypes here; I get that, because its always difficult for a person of one gender to decipher the thoughts, logic, desire of another gender. But I think it helps if each of us can be aware that we're prone to some stereotyping and to avoid viewing individual people that we meet as automatically having characteristics of trends we see in populations.

Do women need to be attracted, physically, to their dates/partners? Of course. The hurdle you are trying to overcome is the initial "glimpse factor," which IS tough on a dating site. I've done online dating and it can be tough to overcome a bad set of pictures no matter how interesting the guy sounds on paper. But when it comes to dating, I think I, and most women, quickly start looking for more tangible qualities in men we date. The physical attraction factor wanes VERY quickly for most well-adjusted women if the mental/emotional stimulation is lacking.

I will tell you what I 'look for" in a guy but obviously, I'm just one person. But all of this talk about wanting "tall hot men that we can show off" is ridiculous. For a serious relationship, do I want someone I can brag about? Sure, but not in the way you think. I am attracted to men who, if you'll excuse the expression "have their **** together." I also expressly avoid men who appear to be flailing or who show signs of needing a significant other to prop up their self-esteem; having a significant other should not significantly vary your sense of self or self-image for the worse OR better. Can I bring you around my friends (both male and female) and be proud of how you carry yourself? Can I brag to my girlfriends about how you show me you care about me and listen to me without crossing the line into being obsequious? Can people tell you care about me by the way you treat me, the way you talk about me when I'm not around, by the respect you show my friends and family?

Does having a steady career (not just a job) make men more attractive to most women? Absolutely. It's not about the amount of money, it is about the fact that most women want someone who will be their partner, their teammate. Can you be counted on to be dependable, to be proactive, to be self-motivated, to be strong in a crisis? These are the qualities I see in most of my male colleagues which I believe are attractive to women. Women are interested in dating doctors because they assume (and I think this is actually a pretty fair assumption) that there is a high degree of correlation between someone obtaining the degree/training of "doctor" and possessing the qualities of dependability, self-starter, ability to handle difficult situations, etc. The question most women forget to ask is "do these qualities carry over into their personal lives?" If you use up the best part of yourself at work and don't save any for me, than what good are those qualities to me?

I am only interested in men who are comfortable in their own skin and can hold a conversation on a wide variety of topics without either coming across either as a know-it-all or a poorly informed blowhard or neophyte. Be interesting, have interests, and be interested in me for something we share in common or some personality feature or quality you see in me, and not JUST my physical attributes (average though they may be).

I'm 5'3. I've dated/had serious relationships with men from 5'5-6'5. I know that some women will not date men shorter than they are as a matter of personal preference. Nothing you can do about that but it is NOT a universal quality in women. But consider this a good screening tool. Really, it sucks that some nurse told you that you needed to have surgery to get a date with her; it was really rude of her and she has no class. But really? It doesn't suck. At least you didn't get 6 months down the road and find out that she's judgmental and rude when she insults your mother's cooking the first time they meet. That exchange showed you exactly what you needed to know about that person; the only thing that exchange tells you about yourself is how you respond to it.

To the OP and others, are you putting yourself in situations with activities/interests you have where you can meet other people (including women) who have shared interests/personality types? If you're the type of person who might not fare well due to the "glimpse" factor, you're always going to do better to get to know people without the pressure of considering a romantic connection until you've developed some kind of relationship based on other factors.

From the flip side of this equation, as a female surgery resident, I find a lot of men quickly lose interest when they find out what I do for a living. I think it is far more rare for women who are school teachers, nurses, or flight attendants, etc to have that problem. But conversely? I'm not interested in anyone who doesn't want to date a woman with as much or more education than they do or who is concerned I might someday make more than them. I suggest you take the same approach and learn to like your life as a single person before you try to find someone to like your life enough to consider adding you to their own. We all get lonely sometimes - that's human nature and it is normal. But focus more on enjoying the life you have (or do what is necessary to get an interesting and enjoyable single life) instead of thinking the only flaw in your life is your lack of a significant other and I think you might be surprised at how things work out.
 
ShortDoc- Maybe she just hasn't met one she liked yet who liked her.

I also like LucidSplash's point about men being turned off by dating a doctor. Those women might be more successful than the guy, which is daunting to an insecure man.
 
I am friends with several guys who are really good with women.

They are all 5'6" and shorter. And caucasian.

Hence, to the OP, there is no reason you cannot have a good relationship.

You really can't do anything about your height. However, there are certain things within your control. These include:

1. Dressing well in well-fitting clothing
2. Getting in shape
3. Basic hygene. Shell out the money for a better haircut vs. going to Super Cuts.
4. Carry yourself well. Walk tall. If all else fails, go buy some elevator shoes.
5. Get comfortable talking to women (and people in general). This is really key.
6. Pick up on how the opposite sex shows attraction. Women, in general, are much more subtle with their social signals. Learn to pick up on these signals. Don't bother with girls who are not attracted to you.
7. Be confident and don't be afraid to lead.
8. Avoid going to bars to meet women. Personally, I've only dated maybe three women I've met in a bar. You'll be far more sucessful through other avenues.


I have seen the data on height and attraction. However, OP, that is just one variable in a very complex (and mostly unknown) equation. Don't let it discourage you.
 
Being a nice, decent person isn't going to get you dates. Not if you aren't confident.

I take it you have trouble dating, too?
 
I'd just like to back up what LucidSplash said above. There are a lot of stereotypes being thrown around which I think mostly reflect some posters' bad individual experiences but aren't really accurate.

My 2c: I'm a guy and average (or probably below average) on the attractiveness scale. I've tried the online dating thing with varying degrees of success. I will say that online dating is significantly more looks-dependent than the real world in a lot of ways. Given that it's hard to really get your personality across in a profile (and a lot of people half-ass it and don't really fill them out), your pictures / looks tend to be more important as they're one of the things people really pay attention to.

That said, attractiveness helps you get a foot in the door, but it does NOT correlate with a relationship. I've been out on dates with girls who I initially thought were very attractive but became less so as I got to know them and vice versa. I've dated girls both more and less attractive than me, and my feelings toward the relationship had very little to do with how attractive they were. I've dated girls "out of my league" and I assume they weren't with me for my looks. It does help to have a baseline level of attraction to get things moving forward, but beyond that it's all about personality and how you play it.

I know it sounds like a broken record at this point, but OP (and those who seem to be in the same boat): you need to be confident, and you need to be less of a misanthrope. As frustrating as this situation is, most people aren't out to get you in this whole process -- it's just a really frustrating process, especially when you have a career that dominates 99% of your time. A lot of people out there trying to date (on both sides of the aisle) are just as frustrated as you are by the difficulties in the system and are just trying to get through it.
 
The argument then becomes:

If you are below average looks, how do you get your foot in the door?
 
The argument then becomes:

If you are below average looks, how do you get your foot in the door?

Haha... Reading that as a euphemism for some reason.

Women are shallow when it comes to height. Even the ones who claim they are not. Being a short guy is a lot like being a fat girl, except you do not get taller with alcohol. I'm not short personally, but have tried my hand at online dating and the most common criteria for female profiles is without a doubt height.

Because of this, you need to maximize your attractiveness in other ways (get in serious shape, dress well, be confident) and seek less desirable women (older, heavier). Online dating might still be difficult, but it's your best bet at a large dating pool outside the hospital as a resident.

If you are still not dating anybody (and especially if your "friends" are snubbing you for party invitations), there is something else really wrong. Try to get someone you know in real life to be brutally honest with you about it.
 
Being a short guy is nothing like being a fat girl. Fat girls get more sex than their thinner counterparts, short guys get less action than tall guys.

Being a short Asian man is the kiss of death in the dating world. I don't really see a reason though for this thead to keep growing though. It's a fruitless debate. You'll have women coming in here saying all they care about is minimal attractiveness and how a man really needs to be "confident (despite all the countless rejections of even a dinner date), smart, driven and totally genuine." And then you have the guys coming in saying that their experiences don't correlate with the politically correct statements of some of these female posters. We're starting to sound like congress and if there's one thing I learned during my schooling is that there's no use in wasting time.

DocDanny- I'm really glad you got a date to that dance man. That was possibly the best post on this thread. You seem like a good guy.

Everyone else- Let's just agree to disagree. Or at the very least it's a complicated thing, but you all must have to admit all of the evidenced-base data on dating shows that height is a big deal (in significant cases, the biggest no pun inteneded).
 
You're not going to get any taller, so optimize what you have. Hit the gym, work on your confidence and ease. Strike up a conversation with every woman you have the opportunity to, whether you're interested or not.


Being a short Asian man is the kiss of death in the dating world. I don't really see a reason though for this thead to keep growing though. It's a fruitless debate. You'll have women coming in here saying all they care about is minimal attractiveness and how a man really needs to be "confident (despite all the countless rejections of even a dinner date), smart, driven and totally genuine." And then you have the guys coming in saying that their experiences don't correlate with the politically correct statements of some of these female posters. We're starting to sound like congress and if there's one thing I learned during my schooling is that there's no use in wasting time.

DocDanny- I'm really glad you got a date to that dance man. That was possibly the best post on this thread. You seem like a good guy.

Everyone else- Let's just agree to disagree. Or at the very least it's a complicated thing, but you all must have to admit all of the evidenced-base data on dating shows that height is a big deal (in significant cases, the biggest no pun inteneded).
 
You don't have to post in it, Shortdoctor. Some of us still have stuff to talk about.

I agree that it is easier for a fat woman to get sex than a short guy. I've known guys who, after a few drinks, will sleep with just about anybody, regardless of age, weight, or even relationship status.
 
I've always found it interesting that many women don't seem to think that wanting a tall guy is shallow. I mentioned to one of my female friends that saying that you wouldn't date someone who is short is just as shallow as a guy saying that he wouldn't date someone with small boobs. She couldn't seem to grasp this concept despite having no logical argument against it.

Not all women care if you're tall but unfortunately the ones who do care don't realize how obnoxious it makes them sound when they talk about it. Most civilized guys won't mention wanting a girl with big boobs in public but women will do the equivalent all the time. It's not all women who think this way; try not to let it get to you.

Regarding being a "short asian man," I also find it interesting that some east asian women seem to think that dating a white guy is "a step up." I'm not east asian but, when a Chinese girl told me that her friends think like that, I found it a little disturbing. Luckily not many other racial/ethnic groups think like this.

To the OP - Remember that once you find "the one" it won't matter any more what most girls think. I'm barely taller than you, which might have made things harder for awhile, but I eventually found someone that I love, and I now I could care less if most women are looking for taller men.

My advice is to let your friends help set you up. And being in medicine doesn't hurt either; I have definitely met more women in medicine who are single than men.
 
Being a short guy is nothing like being a fat girl. Fat girls get more sex than their thinner counterparts, short guys get less action than tall guys.

Hence the reference to alcohol in the post you quoted.

No woman has trouble getting sex if that's all she wants.
 
I think it's way worse to be an overweight woman than a guy who is not that tall. Thank God I am thin...I do work out but I also think it's a bit hereditary. Heavy women get treated awfully in our society...they might get sex but in general everybody cr*ps all over them...way more so than with guys who are heavy. How many fat middle aged guys have you seen with thin 20 or 30 something women? A lot. How many heavy 40 year old women have you seen with a 25 year old man? Probably zero.
 
I don't know, it seems weird. 5'5 is certainly not tall, but it's certainly not that short for a guy, and, no offense, and asian guy. Tom Cruise is your height and he's married to Katie Holmes. Sure, you are not Tom Cruise, but still. Maybe you are approaching women that are just very attractive, or maybe you are awkward, or something. It seems weird that a woman would be like oh sorry dude you are just too short for me to date! I have never met a girl who's ever told a guy that. Me being under 5'3 have dated dudes 5'4 up to 5'11. So it's not that women are shallow and that you are too short, maybe you are approaching the wrong women, or have something else going on. I would imagine that you are self conscious about your height and probably project it so that might be a turn off or that you are awkward with women, which again can be a turn off.

I don't think you are that short to the point where women are horrified and would run away from you if you approached them in a nice way. Of course bear in mind that not all women will like you, some will have a problem with your height, others with some other aspect of your person, etc. It happens to all of us, and it's just one of those aspects of dating.

I would focus on the good things, and having a good perspective and outlook on this, and trying to gain some confidence. A little confidence goes a long way. Also, as I mentioned before, I think trying a dating site would not be a bad idea. You get to "meet" a lot more people, sort out the ones you may like and not waste time with the ones you don't or who don't like you. And if you are just starting to date, realize that rejection is unfortunately just part of the dating process.


Im 5'4' . And i never had problems with dating, my current gf is merely an inch shorter than me and is really attractive. Not only that, i am attracted to women almost at my same height with whom i can talk eye to eye. I have actually never had any issues with my height... and before entering residency i used to have a sense of humor too... hence!... trust me, women are built to select people who are "successful"..and there was a saying..."if you think you will succeed or you will fail... you are correct"

best of luck.
 
Im 5'4' . And i never had problems with dating, my current gf is merely an inch shorter than me and is really attractive. Not only that, i am attracted to women almost at my same height with whom i can talk eye to eye. I have actually never had any issues with my height... and before entering residency i used to have a sense of humor too... hence!... trust me, women are built to select people who are "successful"..and there was a saying..."if you think you will succeed or you will fail... you are correct"

best of luck.

I'm 5'4", wife's 5'8". never had a problem with dating women really because I never cared about my height. Some women didn't want to date someone shorter than them, so I didn't try to date those women. Perhaps whenever you asked women why they didn't want to date you, you offered them an easy excuse that they jumped on. It's easier to tell someone that than to tell them they they don't know how to dress well, don't carry themselves well, have a personality flaw, creep them out for some reason, or come off as being someone you can only be friends with.
 
This is a serious topic so there is no need to mock me (I know I am definitely opening myself up to some taunts hahaha). I'm about to start a surgical residency in DC. I am a single Asian male in his early 30s with a height of about 5' 5". I have never been in a long term relationship nor have had much luck with the opposite sex. I believe my height is the main thing holding me back. I feel that with the demands of residency, I will have even less opportunity to connect with someone if I was unsuccessful during my school years. Can anyone in this position help me out? A friend told me to try online dating, but my height has been a huge disadvantage in getting dates. Not to mention I'm probably not the most handsome guy out there.

I am barely 5'6" and that's with shoes on. Yes it is harder, but doable. You have to approach this thing scientifically. Confidence, confidence, confidence. Then you need game. Period!! You should see my gf, she looks like a model. And yes I have been with a girl that is 6'2" before.
 
I agree about being more attracted to women who are at eye level. That makes sense.

However, at 5'0 I am extremely short. You guys who are 5'4-5'6 would absolutely tower over me. You aren't really short, just below average height. It is harder to find women who are at my eye level.

Also, I've never understood what it is to have 'game'. Is it another word for confidence, or some technique you practice at.
 
Wow. This is a fascinating discussion. I was not born in USA, and I have all kinds of problems but I never realized that people could finish all of med school and have such weird ideas about women. You probably have this problem that you are a boring person. You know the word "autism" is a very recent invention and until recently different levels of autism were defined as different levels of "boring". I guess it is possible to become successful professionally without having much ability to schmooze with girls or with people who evaluate you profesionally. I think that's good, because otherwise you (and I) would never get any decent job. In my former country if you are unable to pick up chicks you will never get a good job either.

But anyway. You get a lot of advice here about online dating. I just cannot comprehend this. I looked on those sites when I had too much free time(before med school). I literally browsed 1000's of profiles and could not find >1-3 that I would be interested in writing, much less fill out my own profile and pay to write them and probably get rejected. Do you write 100's of women on those sites to justify your spending $$ for that membership? At bars in college towns there are actually a lot of attractive girls.. And you said it yourself that girls in real life are more approachable than online. Yet, even if you forget about those disgusting websites like match, even in real life it's not easy unless you are indeed someone who is really good with people(and of course it does not hurt to be tall, attractive).

This is why I suggest something that was mentioned on this blog only once. You should look at other countries. My personal favorite is eastern europe because that's my home. Girls there are easier and will accept you even if you have some defects. Even if you have no defects, you would still do better in a less competitive market.. There are some really nice girls that just want to be appreciated and could forgive you for being short or nerdy. And avoid those ******ed websites like match or whatever "mail order" scam sites are out there. In USA the only online dating site is facebook.com. i bet u if u message random college coeds asking for a coffee most will agree. most foreign countries have websites similar to facebook in their own language and the girls are more approachable. But of course there is nothing wrong with just going on vacation and meeting girls on the street or at a bar. If I were done with med school, I would just invite girls from my country to visit me. Right now I have no money.
 
I agree about being more attracted to women who are at eye level. That makes sense.

However, at 5'0 I am extremely short. You guys who are 5'4-5'6 would absolutely tower over me. You aren't really short, just below average height. It is harder to find women who are at my eye level.

Also, I've never understood what it is to have 'game'. Is it another word for confidence, or some technique you practice at.
"game" is when you have a natural ability to make people laugh and to want to talk with you. it's the opposite of autism. most people are somewhere in between and have to use things like height, money, hitting on ugly chicks,etc. money or height can give you confidence and ability to pick up chicks but someone like Danny Devito or Robin Williams or (pick some tall actor or dancer or artist) has game and would be successful even if he were not rich. so for most us we just need to work on something we can change -money and markets.
 
Haha... Reading that as a euphemism for some reason.

Women are shallow when it comes to height. Even the ones who claim they are not. Being a short guy is a lot like being a fat girl, except you do not get taller with alcohol. I'm not short personally, but have tried my hand at online dating and the most common criteria for female profiles is without a doubt height.

Because of this, you need to maximize your attractiveness in other ways (get in serious shape, dress well, be confident) and seek less desirable women (older, heavier). Online dating might still be difficult, but it's your best bet at a large dating pool outside the hospital as a resident.

If you are still not dating anybody (and especially if your "friends" are snubbing you for party invitations), there is something else really wrong. Try to get someone you know in real life to be brutally honest with you about it.

I do not even know how to characterize your post. Let's just break it down a bit:
1)Being a short guy is a lot like being a fat girl, except you do not get taller with alcohol.
-no. Even in usa, and much more so, in the rest of the world, a guy is not defined by his looks. You might argue that being a short guy is like being a fat guy. Although even in that case, fat guys tend to be less energetic and less virile than short guys.

2) seek less desirable women (older, heavier).
-what kind of nonsense is this? I understand that a lot of people have unrealistic expectations. But seeking older, heavier women?? Did you waste your youth, take mcat, step1,etc so you could spend your $$ on old, heavy women?

3) If you are still not dating anybody, there is something else really wrong.
-So you should date an older, heavy woman so that your "friends" who are dating older, heavy women wouldn't think there is something wrong with you? I for one thing that if you were able to finish medical school, you're all right. Spend your money wisely and get a playboy calibre woman from east europe.
 
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