"New bipartisan bill in Congress would require residency programs to equitably assess MD and DO candidates"

[DOVinciRobot]

J)cgrg

On the bright side, ever since the merger, we've seen DOs match into uber-specialties that would have been unimaginable pre-merger. The glass door keeps getting kicked in more. And according tot he PD survey, more are willing to interview and rank DOs each year.

Yes, there will always be residencies that refuse to consider DOs. Although I note that the infamously elitist NYU Internal Med program has a DO, and a Chief Resident, yet!

Internal Medicine Residency Directors & Chief Residents | NYU Langone Health

NYU Langone’s Department of Medicine program directors and chief residents develop, oversee, and enrich the Internal Medicine Residency.

med.nyu.edu

Scroll down to Dr Kassapidis

That’s not their main academic IM program. It says so in her bio…. It’s the community health center program, which is different.

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[Goro]

That’s not their main academic IM program. It says so in her bio…. It’s the community health center program, which is different.

Hey, it's NYU mother ship, that counts for something in my book.

 

[Angus Avagadro]

UPENN and JHU have taken DOs for years in gas and pmr. I counted 3 DOs as faculty in the Dept of IM at Mayo Rochester. Equity can't be mandated, but merit is winning.

 

[Goro]

UPENN and JHU have taken DOs for years in gas and pmr. I counted 3 DOs as faculty in the Dept of IM at Mayo Rochester. Equity can't be mandated, but merit is winning.

DOs are loved in PMR everywhere, in fact. My school has sent grads to Stanford , NYU, and U Chicago for that specialty!

 

[idkmed]

No offense to my DO brethren out there, but wouldn't this mean Congress would be forcing programs to accept an exam with objectively pseudoscientific content on it? Correct me if I am wrong.

 

[RespectTheChemistry]

UPENN and JHU have taken DOs for years in gas and pmr. I counted 3 DOs as faculty in the Dept of IM at Mayo Rochester. Equity can't be mandated, but merit is winning.

Do you foresee Anesthesiology becoming anti-DO in the future all else being equal? It seems like its competitiveness has skyrocketed lately.

Before the poor job market and proliferation of private equity, I thought I remembered EM being middle-of-the-road competitive but simultaneously DO-friendly. I don't know how unique that is to EM, however.

 

[hellosnd]

No offense to my DO brethren out there, but wouldn't this mean Congress would be forcing programs to accept an exam with objectively pseudoscientific content on it? Correct me if I am wrong.

Most competitive DOs take both exams, STEP 1/2, COMLEX 1/2.

 

[hellosnd]

Do you foresee Anesthesiology becoming anti-DO in the future all else being equal? It seems like its competitiveness has skyrocketed lately.

Before the poor job market and proliferation of private equity, I thought I remembered EM being middle-of-the-road competitive but simultaneously DO-friendly. I don't know how unique that is to EM, however.

It’s already kinda trending that way. Look at the MD vs DO + STEP1/2 score match rates

 

[MDMechEngr]

Do you foresee Anesthesiology becoming anti-DO in the future all else being equal? It seems like its competitiveness has skyrocketed lately.

Before the poor job market and proliferation of private equity, I thought I remembered EM being middle-of-the-road competitive but simultaneously DO-friendly. I don't know how unique that is to EM, however.

These two charts show Anes is getting very competive.

 

[Angus Avagadro]

Do you foresee Anesthesiology becoming anti-DO in the future all else being equal? It seems like its competitiveness has skyrocketed lately.

Before the poor job market and proliferation of private equity, I thought I remembered EM being middle-of-the-road competitive but simultaneously DO-friendly. I don't know how unique that is to EM, however.

Yeah, most residencies are getting more competitive. I'm not sure DO bias is the cause, just more competitive with more applicants. . I will say that some PDs don't consider it their job to train DOs. That has been the case for decades

 

[Future_Bone_Docta]

Most competitive DOs take both exams, STEP 1/2, COMLEX 1/2.

The bill states residency directors must see COMLEX 1/2 and USMLE 1/2 as equivalents.

"both the COMLEX and USMLE licensing exams will be equally accepted."

 

[hellosnd]

The bill states residency directors must see COMLEX 1/2 and USMLE 1/2 as equivalents.

"both the COMLEX and USMLE licensing exams will be equally accepted."

places that are not taking DOs are the more competitive places where 99% ppl have both sets completed

 

[Future_Bone_Docta]

places that are not taking DOs are the more competitive places where 99% ppl have both sets completed

You are talking about the current situation. He was talking about hypothetically if the bill gets passed and

"both the COMLEX and USMLE licensing exams will be equally accepted." is to be enforced.

however I agree that congress making COMLEX = USMLE in PD's eyes is largely unlikely.

 

[FutureDoctor5000]

Soo petty… a program doesn’t want me or want to interview me because of my initials? Meh…. I will just go to the many others that do… the check hits the same at the end of the day trust me..

 

[FutureDoctor5000]

Just looking at Gas this year. USMD with 250s only need to apply 40 programs give or take. USDO with same scores are applying too 70-80+.

Also the 40+ USMD are applying to have some UCSF tier programs that won’t even look at DOs with the same scores.

I’m sure USMD extracurricular are more impressive that USDO, im assuming primarily research which is likely a huge deal for UCSF tier programs but… I’m sure if a DO had MD level research and scores, they still won’t even be considered.

This is wrong.. DO’s apply to more because we are advised to do so.. if I applied to half the number of programs I would still have the same number of interviews since the vast majority of my interviews were regional , there is quite literally several DO’s at the #1 Gas program in the country, JHU… most of the top 20-30 programs actually have DO’s

 

[hellosnd]

This is wrong.. DO’s apply to more because we are advised to do so.. if I applied to half the number of programs I would still have the same number of interviews since the vast majority of my interviews were regional , there is quite literally several DO’s at the #1 Gas program in the country, JHU… most of the top 20-30 programs actually have DO’s

Guess I'm speaking from a California POV. UCLA, UCSF, UCSD, Stanford all have 0 DOs (I think ever) and many have like <5% (1-2 in the past 4 years)

 

[voxveritatisetlucis]

This is wrong.. DO’s apply to more because we are advised to do so.. if I applied to half the number of programs I would still have the same number of interviews since the vast majority of my interviews were regional , there is quite literally several DO’s at the #1 Gas program in the country, JHU… most of the top 20-30 programs actually have DO’s

Gas is known to be noncompetitive and less pedigree driven somewhat similar to EM

Other fields like IM, pedigree is very important

JHU, MGH, BWH, UCSF, UMich, Penn, Duke, Vanderbilt, Emory, Barnes Jewish, Uchicago, Northwestern, Stanford, UCLA, BIDMC, Weill, NYU and a bunch of others don’t even consider DOs (they may interview on occasion but the rosters have no DOs)

Also a very middling MD students can match mid tier university IM with ease. This isn’t necessarily true for DOs. Look at the rosters of places like Loyola and UIC

 

[Goro]

Guess I'm speaking from a California POV. UCLA, UCSF, UCSD, Stanford all have 0 DOs (I think ever) and many have like <5% (1-2 in the past 4 years)

Gas? Or other specialties. I can assure you that my school has sent grads to UCSD, Stanford and UCSF. The CA kids just have to go back home!!!

 

[Goro]

JHU, MGH, BWH, UCSF, UMich, Penn, Duke, Vanderbilt, Emory, Barnes Jewish, Uchicago, Northwestern, Stanford, UCLA, BIDMC, Weill, NYU and a bunch of others don’t even consider DOs (they may interview on occasion but the rosters have no DOs)

IM only????

 

[FutureDoctor5000]

Gas is known to be noncompetitive and less pedigree driven somewhat similar to EM

Other fields like IM, pedigree is very important

JHU, MGH, BWH, UCSF, UMich, Penn, Duke, Vanderbilt, Emory, Barnes Jewish, Uchicago, Northwestern, Stanford, UCLA, BIDMC, Weill, NYU and a bunch of others don’t even consider DOs (they may interview on occasion but the rosters have no DOs)

Also a very middling MD students can match mid tier university IM with ease. This isn’t necessarily true for DOs. Look at the rosters of places like Loyola and UIC

For IM yea but even then Emory has taken DO’s for the last 2-3 years as has BCM.. Barnes Jewish has taken DO’s but the tippy top of IM is very very competitive and most of the very top programs in IM don’t take DO’s but will interview so maybe we are headed in the right direction … but ironically outside of IM DO’s have matched at those places in Uber Uber competitive stuff like ENT(duke), surgery(Penn), Weill(Optho) NYU(ortho) Vandy for stuff like OB and Rads, U Mich for CT surgery etc… also about the middling MD matching mid tier IM with ease, I would say I am a very “average” to just slightly above average DO student who had several mid tier IM interviews, including a top 30-40 program. I am sure the MD students had more mid tier IM but it’s not like me as middling DO student only had straight community programs.

 

[hellosnd]

Gas? Or other specialties. I can assure you that my school has sent grads to UCSD, Stanford and UCSF. The CA kids just have to go back home!!!

Gas specifically. Altho, probably IM as well

 

[Goro]

Gas specifically. Altho, probably IM as well

Barnes Has definitely taken DOs.

 

[Ho0v-man]

This means nothing.

 

[DO2015CA]

Bizarre bill to go to congress. Someone must have a DO child

 

[Angus Avagadro]

Do you foresee Anesthesiology becoming anti-DO in the future all else being equal? It seems like its competitiveness has skyrocketed lately.

Before the poor job market and proliferation of private equity, I thought I remembered EM being middle-of-the-road competitive but simultaneously DO-friendly. I don't know how unique that is to EM, however.

I don't think it will become anti DO, as DOs have been in academic programs for decades, with numbers increasing. It will just get more competitive, which will make DOs matching somewhat harder. Lots of young grads will slow job growth as they embark on 20 to 30 yr careers. AAs may help ease the mid level encroachment by Crnas. There will be more sub specialty requirements as more subs enter the job market. Only so many hearts to fix and heads to crack.

 

[AlbinoHawk DO]

Bizarre bill to go to congress. Someone must have a DO child

I think some people in government are DOs

 

[DO2015CA]

I think some people in government are DOs

True but also those people are done. That’s why I was thinking children because it would affect their kids currently.

 

[voxveritatisetlucis]

Yes bill gate daughter went to Stanford and then Icahn School of Medicine. Most children of congressmen/senators at the very least get into state flagship MD

 

[DO2015CA]

Yes bill gate daughter went to Stanford and then Icahn School of Medicine. Most children of congressmen/senators at the very least get into state flagship MD

Meaning these kids are that stupid they couldn’t even win a rigged game lol

 

[AlbinoHawk DO]

LOL. With their connections, the vast majority would be at top MD schools. I know someone with slightly above average stats attending a top MD program in CA.

Yeah, but everyone has nephews and children of friends