New DDS grad - AMA about the dental profession, loans, future, etc...

[aspiringdentist2019]

Hello! Just graduated dental school and started working at a DSO for over 3 months now. It is amazing how ill-informed I was about the dental profession (such as, what a typical job offer looks like, how stressful student loans will be to pay off, what the future of dentistry looks like) when I was applying and even when I was in dental school.

Now that I am out and see many patients on a regular basis, these things have become much clearer. So I am going to leave it here for anyone that has questions about being a new dentist in this ever changing profession. This may help clear up some confusion about your future, maybe help you become more confident in dental school interviews, or even be better aware/prepared financially. Any questions are welcome

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[numbersloth]

Would you do dental school again? Have you thought about specializing? What are your opinions on the future of private practice? Anything you would have done different in Dental school or in your job search?

 

[aspiringdentist2019]

Would you do dental school again? Have you thought about specializing? What are your opinions on the future of private practice? Anything you would have done different in Dental school or in your job search?

Would you do dental school again?
100%. Dental school was tough. And dentistry is not always easy. Patients can be demanding and tough to work on. Management side of things is not always seamless. Despite all of this, I think about what kind of impact I have when I see patients in high need (infection, need extraction/treatment right away) and how much of a service I can provide them to improve their condition. Every day when I go to work it never feels like "ugh, I need to go to work again." I get excited about the day, what procedures I'll be doing, how I can help the new patients, etc...

Financially though, I do think it would be VERY tough for someone coming out with 4-500k in student loans. Do NOT underestimate the burden of student loans. Students think it will all be fine and they will cross the bridge once they get there. I thought this way during school as well. Those monthly payments are very high compared to what you will be making initially (after taxes and student loans, your pay is not very much). Personally, I am planning to live at home and aggressively tackle my student loans (280k) and hopefully be done in 2.5 years (at least that's the goal). It's defeating to work hard all week only to give away most/all of it in student loans, but I do think that in order to succeed financially in the future, this burden needs to be put to rest ASAP.

Have you thought about specializing?
Yes. Throughout dental school I may have considered going into every specialty at one point or another. However personally I could not justify spending extra years of school for any particular specialty. I like the challenge of various procedures but also like having someone to refer to when I get stuck. I also do not necessarily believe that specialty leads to long term better financial success. Yes it is easier to earn higher income (especially initially) with a specialty. But I like having the business mindset of owning my own practice or even multiple practices in a large group with other general dentists. You can also do this as a specialist, but like I said I just could not find a passion in a particular specialty to justify that extra time spent.

What are your opinions on the future of private practice?
The future of private practice is definitely challenging to predict. I do think DSO's will drive their way into a larger market share (similar to the optometry market) but there will always be a place for traditional private practices as well. The bigger markets such as LA/NY are already becoming very saturated that they are NOT the best place for a new grad (esp. with high loans) to set up shop, but some rural areas/suburban areas throughout the country still have lot of opportunity.

In terms of trends in procedures, I think that technology is making procedures easier to an extent (which allows the general dentist to do more of them). For example, ortho has come to a point where I can take an ITERO scan of someone's mouth and the Invisilign program will come up with a nice before/after result. It has been easier to show treatment outcomes, etc... with such tech. Endo has also become easier with numerous rotary systems, and EXT/bone graft/implant placement will be something a lot more GP's will be doing with new tech.

Anything you would have done different in Dental school or in your job search?
If I were to look back, I would have definitely made more connections with different vendors (dental companies/DSOs/private practices) to scope out different job opportunities and at least understand what the market/job offers were reasonable. I was lucky enough to be in touch with a lot of them, but a lot of my classmates put off job search till last minute and took sub par jobs (in my opinion) at different practices and they are starting to learn what a good job entails (in terms of benefits/compensation/patient demand/experience earned, etc...). In my opinion it is better to start asking these questions starting D3/D4 so that you are more informed once it is time to look for opportunities.

 

[deleted903013]

Did many in your class end up doing a GPR/AEGD? Are you glad you didn't do one?

 

[BasicG]

What brand and mag loupes do you have? Do you have an itch to upgrade now that you're seeing more patients than you were in dental school

 

[Big Time Hoosier]

Financially though, I do think it would be VERY tough for someone coming out with 4-500k in student loans. Do NOT underestimate the burden of student loans. Students think it will all be fine and they will cross the bridge once they get there. I thought this way during school as well. Those monthly payments are very high compared to what you will be making initially (after taxes and student loans, your pay is not very much).

So, you’d say predents should go to the cheapest dental school they get into? How interesting...

Big Hoss

 

[aspiringdentist2019]

Did many in your class end up doing a GPR/AEGD? Are you glad you didn't do one?

I went to a school which was "specialty heavy" so a lot of my classmates ended up in some specialty or residency program including AEGD/GPR. I'd say out of the 50% of the class doing GP, half of those decided to go into GPR/AEGD.

I think that the GPR/AEGD decision needs to be carefully made. There are MANY GPR/AEGD programs in the country that are not very good, and that extra year could be spent better at a busy private practice. However, if you do your research and know that a certain program is good for the experience that you're looking for (for example if you want more implant training and the program is known for that), then I could justify an extra year of training for that.

There are definitely times when I think "aw man...I wish I could do this better" (such as, when I'm suturing a flap, or when I'm doing a complicated root canal), and AEGD/GPR comes to mind. But then I think the skillset will develop with repetition, and just by the vast number of patients I'm seeing/the experience that I am getting at work will help me get there pretty quickly. The biggest difference is the extra year of getting income/paying down loans, etc... Even with an AEGD/GPR there is definitely a difference when compared to private practice. So I don't regret not doing one but I definitely see the justification for doing one. It all depends on a case by case basis and I would judge your skillset during end of D3 year and think about whether you would want to do one to increase confidence/skillset or not.

 

[aspiringdentist2019]

What brand and mag loupes do you have? Do you have an itch to upgrade now that you're seeing more patients than you were in dental school

I use Orascoptic. I think its a 3.0 magnification. I do not have an itch to upgrade one because it does the job well. I know the loupe reps may tell you "oh you can use a lower mag now and get higher mag once you get more experience/graduate" but honestly I think its all a sales tactic to sell you 2 pairs in a short time.

I do know this: it takes time to get used to your loupes, but once you get used to them they will help you tremendously. I think if you get higher mag now, you may be concerned about not being able to adjust to them very quickly. Your field of vision may also be less with higher mag so tougher to get adjusted to it especially since it may be first time using loupes. That's a valid concern but I would rather get a medium/high mag now for cheaper student pricing and get used to them/use them for as long as I can versus get a lower mag and then decide to upgrade later.

One more thing: the reps will go on and on about how wonderful their light systems are and charge you a lot of money ($400-800) for the lights. I saved money by not buying an orascoptic light. Waited till our school vendor fair and bought a light set from a 3rd party company for $200. To this day luckily none of the equipment has given me any problems.

 

[aspiringdentist2019]

So, you’d say predents should go to the cheapest dental school they get into? How interesting...

View attachment 280923

Big Hoss

YES! 100%. I'm sure as a dentist you agree on how important this is. Personally I chose a school that was 30k more expensive overall tuition wise (which is not too bad), but if you're wondering about whether you should attend a 300k school or a 500k school, that's a no brainer (unless you're getting a full ride of course)...

 

[Firik]

How did your relationship with classmates change over four years?
Do you have a set salary only or salary+production %? Did you negotiate a contract or what was the process?
Thank you!

 

[2TH MVR]

1st off. Congrats on being a fellow colleague. A few questions.
How are ortho patients treated? In house ortho? GPs doing aligner treatment? If refered out .... what is the process for choosing the non DSO orthodontist? Do you choose or does the DSO tell you who to refer to?

 

[aspiringdentist2019]

How did your relationship with classmates change over four years?
Do you have a set salary only or salary+production %? Did you negotiate a contract or what was the process?
Thank you!

How did your relationship with classmates change over four years?
Over the 4 years of dental school personally my relationship with classmates changed quiet a bit.

In D1, we used to all mesh well together and there was more of a social aspect where everyone would come to parties/social events.
BUT, from D2 onwards, there was more of a clique environment where I had a really close group of friends that I built strong relationships with, and I didn't interact much socially with the people outside of my clique. It's just unavoidable in a dental school type of environment where we have classes together the whole time (so it feels like high school), so students tend to make a close group of friends and stick with that. This does not mean that I didn't like my classmates outside of my clique, and it was perfectly fine to hang out with them for lunch, etc... if, for example, we had rotations at on off site together.


Do you have a set salary only or salary+production %? Did you negotiate a contract or what was the process?
I have a set daily minimum ($600), with potential to be higher if I produce more. For example if I produce $4,000 on a particular day (which is doable), then I take home 25% (which is $1,000 for that day), so I would take home the higher amount which is $1,000. BUT if I produce $2000 on a particular day (also possible), then I take home $600 (since 25% of 2k is not higher than $600, so $600 is minimum daily rate).

Contract negotiation is important. I would look at comparable offers in your area, and proceed from there. It's tough to tell because one practice could offer you a less % of production (25% seems to be on the lower side), BUT you may have ability to produce more due to more patients than some other practice offering a higher percentage. So definitely do your homework.

In terms of negotiations, the following are equally important and often overlooked: sign-on bonus (POST tax), 401k benefits/matching, health/insurance benefits (malpractice, disability, health insurance), and PAID time off (how many days a year, etc..). Sometimes what looks to be a worse offer on paper based on just base salary COULD be a better option once these things are taken into account.

 

[aspiringdentist2019]

1st off. Congrats on being a fellow colleague. A few questions.
How are ortho patients treated? In house ortho? GPs doing aligner treatment? If refered out .... what is the process for choosing the non DSO orthodontist? Do you choose or does the DSO tell you who to refer to?

We do not have an in house orthodontist at the clinic that I work in, BUT the GP I work under (who owns the practice) DOES do a lot of ortho tx with Invisilign (using Itero). For tougher cases we refer out to a local orthodontist (not associated with the DSO) who the owner GP likes and has a good relationship with. The DSO does NOT tell us who to refer to (unless there is a specialist in that field who works in house for the DSO).

 

[theleatherwalle]

What part of the country do you work? Rural or urban?

 

[FanOfCostco]

Why do a lot of new grads think there will be loan forgiveness?

 

[Big Time Hoosier]

Why do a lot of new grads think there will be loan forgiveness?

Ignorance is bliss...

Big Hoss

 

[AONLINE]

What part of the country do you work? Rural or urban?

Same question. Basically, can a new grad still survive working in a big city?

 

[Mhzzz]

This is such a great thread. Thanks for sharing

 

[Estonax]

I'm a current college student about to apply for the 2020-2021 cycle.

I'm heavily considering HPSP due to the ridiculous rising costs of tuition and school. Would you take this option in retrospect?

After DS, do most students that go general practice end up at DSO's or private practice? Which is best for development?

How difficult is it to find a job coming out of dental school?

How important are grades in dental school? To me, I feel like being able to understand procedures and your dentistry ability should be prioritized over detailed facts that you will forget after you graduate.

How close did you live to the dental school as a student?

Edits: Typos and extra questions.

 

[Twinkle Moon]

How did your relationship with classmates change over four years?
Over the 4 years of dental school personally my relationship with classmates changed quiet a bit.

In D1, we used to all mesh well together and there was more of a social aspect where everyone would come to parties/social events.
BUT, from D2 onwards, there was more of a clique environment where I had a really close group of friends that I built strong relationships with, and I didn't interact much socially with the people outside of my clique. It's just unavoidable in a dental school type of environment where we have classes together the whole time (so it feels like high school), so students tend to make a close group of friends and stick with that. This does not mean that I didn't like my classmates outside of my clique, and it was perfectly fine to hang out with them for lunch, etc... if, for example, we had rotations at on off site together.


Do you have a set salary only or salary+production %? Did you negotiate a contract or what was the process?
I have a set daily minimum ($600), with potential to be higher if I produce more. For example if I produce $4,000 on a particular day (which is doable), then I take home 25% (which is $1,000 for that day), so I would take home the higher amount which is $1,000. BUT if I produce $2000 on a particular day (also possible), then I take home $600 (since 25% of 2k is not higher than $600, so $600 is minimum daily rate).

Contract negotiation is important. I would look at comparable offers in your area, and proceed from there. It's tough to tell because one practice could offer you a less % of production (25% seems to be on the lower side), BUT you may have ability to produce more due to more patients than some other practice offering a higher percentage. So definitely do your homework.

In terms of negotiations, the following are equally important and often overlooked: sign-on bonus (POST tax), 401k benefits/matching, health/insurance benefits (malpractice, disability, health insurance), and PAID time off (how many days a year, etc..). Sometimes what looks to be a worse offer on paper based on just base salary COULD be a better option once these things are taken into account.

How many years is a typical contract?

 

[pubhealthdent]

How difficult is it to find a job coming out of dental school?

How important are grades in dental school? To me, I feel like being able to understand procedures and your dentistry ability should be prioritized over detailed facts that you will forget after you graduate.

How easy it is to find a job depends on where you're willing to live/work. Want to go to a metropolitan area? Be prepared to struggle to find a good position. Willing to go rural or smaller city, you'll have many more opportunities.

Grades don't matter if you're not interested in specializing. When I was interviewing for jobs, no one asked about GPA or class rank. The first and last ranked persons in the class will graduate with the same degree.

 

[monkeykey]

What part of the country are you working in?

Are DSOs as everybody says they are? Could you see yourself working there for 2 years?

 

[monkeykey]

What part of the country are you working in?

Are DSOs as everybody says they are? Could you see yourself working there for 2 years?

Also will DSOs let GPs do advanced procedures like implants or do they always make the specialists do that?

 

[aspiringdentist2019]

What part of the country do you work? Rural or urban?

I live in a decent sized town in Oklahoma so I wouldn't say it's super rural but definitely not a large metropolitan city. Dallas TX is pretty close (1.5 hrs away) so if I ever feel bored I go there on weekends so it does not feel rural to me. Besides, this situation for me is temporary (hoping to keep costs at a minimum to pay of loans quickly)

 

[aspiringdentist2019]

Why do a lot of new grads think there will be loan forgiveness?

Haha, there was a stat somewhere that concluded student loan forgiveness is almost a scam since <1% of folks who applied were actually accepted for the forgiveness. I would definitely be cautious if relying on this.

 

[aspiringdentist2019]

Same question. Basically, can a new grad still survive working in a big city?

Depends on the city and your situation. I have friends who are nearby large cities (LA/SF/NY) who do NOT have to worry about too many student loans and are doing just fine. Problem is, if you stay in a large city, be prepared for average pay, lots of competition, and high costs of living. If you can make it work, that's fine. If your goal is to pay off loans, be financially in a better position, I would spend some time outside of a large city after graduation so that you can hone in on the dentistry/skillset/develop financially and then move to a large city once you are ready (if that's what you want to do long term). Some of my friends have done this and it has worked fine. It's tough to start out in a large city after graduation (unless you don't mind a deep pay cut).

 

[aspiringdentist2019]

I'm a current college student about to apply for the 2020-2021 cycle.

I'm heavily considering HPSP due to the ridiculous rising costs of tuition and school. Would you take this option in retrospect?
I would, in retrospect definitely take on HPSP. If I remember correctly you get paid a stipend during school for living expenses and also do not need to worry about tuition costs. I was initially unsure about the HPSP because I didn't want to be placed somewhere I didn't want to be, but all of the students in my class who had HPSP ended up in locations that they preferred to be in.

After DS, do most students that go general practice end up at DSO's or private practice? Which is best for development?
A lot of GP grads do end up in DSO (at least from my class), and to be honest I think a DSO is probably a better option for growth and development since the work pace is a bit faster than private practice.

How difficult is it to find a job coming out of dental school?
It's not difficult to find a job out of dental school, but it is difficult to find a GOOD, well paying job in some saturated metro areas.

How important are grades in dental school? To me, I feel like being able to understand procedures and your dentistry ability should be prioritized over detailed facts that you will forget after you graduate.
Grades are not important in dental school if you are not going to specialize. Try to learn as must as you can especially the clinical aspect. If you want to specialize, I think having good grades will help you get there.

How close did you live to the dental school as a student?
I lived about 15 min away from school. Try to live somewhere close. Sometimes you have to be at school for labs and such and it's convenient if it is nearby.

Edits: Typos and extra questions.

 

[aspiringdentist2019]

How many years is a typical contract?

Honestly, DSO's are growing rapidly and they don't really care as much for a typical contract (they just want to get you in the door). With that said, if there is a bonus of some sort, expect to be there for 12-24 months otherwise you would have to pay back the bonus. That's their way of a "contract" these days.

 

[aspiringdentist2019]

What part of the country are you working in?

Are DSOs as everybody says they are? Could you see yourself working there for 2 years?

I'm in the south (little north of Texas). I don't know what people think of DSOs but I am sure there is a lot of misinformation out there.
DSO's are good if you are willing to learn procures quickly and effectively right out of graduation. Yes, there IS pressure to produce/be efficient. But they try to walk a fine line of being productive, not overworking the provider and also providing best patient care as possible. With that said, I don't see myself working there after 2 years. Problem is, DSOs take up too much piece of the pie. As an associate, I average $5,000+ production per day, and get paid less than 20% of that. One day I am going to wake up and feel like private practice/buying my own practice will be a much better option for me. Granted, it IS easier to get patients into a DSO and build a good schedule everyday vs. private practice, but in terms of provider salary I think owning your own practice is the best way to go long term.

 

[aspiringdentist2019]

Also will DSOs let GPs do advanced procedures like implants or do they always make the specialists do that?

If you voice that you want to learn implants, and the practice you are in is in need for a provider to place implants, I am sure they will get you into CE's and help you place some. All depends on particular situation. But yes, not uncommon for experienced DSO GPs in my area to place implants.

 

[dentj5]

I plan on attending a dental school with a very high specialization rate as I may specialize, but not with the most extensive clinical curriculum at all. But this school is financially more advantageous for me.
Now that you have graduated and have a richer perspective on the dental field, would you say that it's true that most graduates learn after graduation? Or do you see a strong difference between new dentists who graduated good VS "poor" clinical programs? I've always been a "people person", with good communication and professional skills, but do you think I'll have troubles finding a job as a general practitioner from a dental school with a below-average clinical curriculum?

 

[aspiringdentist2019]

I plan on attending a dental school with a very high specialization rate as I may specialize, but not with the most extensive clinical curriculum at all. But this school is financially more advantageous for me.
Now that you have graduated and have a richer perspective on the dental field, would you say that it's true that most graduates learn after graduation? Or do you see a strong difference between new dentists who graduated good VS "poor" clinical programs? I've always been a "people person", with good communication and professional skills, but do you think I'll have troubles finding a job as a general practitioner from a dental school with a below-average clinical curriculum?

Your situation sounds very much like the situation that I was in when I was deciding between dental schools.

If this particular school is more financially advantageous for you, go there. In terms of the GP clinical curriculum, try to find ways in school to improve your clinical skills on top of the bare bones that they offer. A lot of times in high specialty schools, the reason they are not known for clinical curriculum is because most students who want to specialize don't really focus on the GP clinical aspect, and so the school's attention shifts to other areas like academia, research, placing students to specialties, etc....

But this is where you can thrive. In my dental school we had community programs (where we go to offsite clinics on weekends and bust out a whole day of extracts, endo, fillings, etc...) and I tried to attend as many of these possible and learned a ton from those programs. We also had a bunch of GP organizations that would focus on certain aspects (like EXTs, endo, etc...) so those were also helpful. Honestly, the clinical experience is what you make of it. You just need to find the opportunities for your particular situation.

Even if you feel like you haven't learned the best clincal skills to be a good GP after graduating, I wouldn't stress about it too much. Your first year out of school might be challenging because everyone tends to learn as they go but after that you'll be in the same position as any other grad regardless of school experience.

Oh, and you'll be able to find a job just like any other student. Employers, for the most part, don't really care what school you graduated from. If you have the people skills you'll be great.

 

[batman12345]

Your situation sounds very much like the situation that I was in when I was deciding between dental schools.

If this particular school is more financially advantageous for you, go there. In terms of the GP clinical curriculum, try to find ways in school to improve your clinical skills on top of the bare bones that they offer. A lot of times in high specialty schools, the reason they are not known for clinical curriculum is because most students who want to specialize don't really focus on the GP clinical aspect, and so the school's attention shifts to other areas like academia, research, placing students to specialties, etc....

But this is where you can thrive. In my dental school we had community programs (where we go to offsite clinics on weekends and bust out a whole day of extracts, endo, fillings, etc...) and I tried to attend as many of these possible and learned a ton from those programs. We also had a bunch of GP organizations that would focus on certain aspects (like EXTs, endo, etc...) so those were also helpful. Honestly, the clinical experience is what you make of it. You just need to find the opportunities for your particular situation.

Even if you feel like you haven't learned the best clincal skills to be a good GP after graduating, I wouldn't stress about it too much. Your first year out of school might be challenging because everyone tends to learn as they go but after that you'll be in the same position as any other grad regardless of school experience.

Oh, and you'll be able to find a job just like any other student. Employers, for the most part, don't really care what school you graduated from. If you have the people skills you'll be great.

I’ll be starting dental school this fall, and I want to try to pay off my loans quickly in the first few years as well. I may be attending a school that will cost 400k though, any advice? I want to be a GP.

 

[aspiringdentist2019]

I’ll be starting dental school this fall, and I want to try to pay off my loans quickly in the first few years as well. I may be attending a school that will cost 400k though, any advice? I want to be a GP.

First, I would figure out the exact total you will owe after graduation. For various reasons, this is difficult to do while you are starting dental school. I anticipated ~50k less than what my loans ended up being after I graduated (due to interest accumulating, rising costs, etc...). This made me stress out a little more upon graduation because it made me feel like I was underestimating the whole student loan situation. This is important in your case because 400k is vastly different than 450k and mentally you can prepare yourself for whatever this number may be.

Secondly, during dental school, I would apply to every scholarship that you can. Seek your financial officer at the school and bug them about scholarship opportunities. There are a lot of them. I was able to get ~15k scholarships just by doing this. It's not much but it would take me 2-3 months of hard work in practice to pay that much.

Upon graduation, try to refinance or put your loans in the position that they STOP accumulating interest. For example, on 400k with 6% average interest, your DAILY interest accumulation is vastly different than if you refinanced with 3% or did some REPAYE options (all this depends on your particular situation). The first 6 months, the fed loans will be held in grace period where you don't have anything due, so people think "eh I'll worry about it later" but this is so wrong because interest is accumulating this whole time. I would rather refinance once I have a stable job and start paying it off.

For quick loan payoff, try to keep your monthly costs as LOW as possible (low to none rent/car payment, minimal spending) while keeping your income shovel as HIGH as possible. DSOs are notorious for giving out great sign on bonuses. Negotiate a high sign on bonus POST TAX (for example if a DSO gives 15k post tax that's equivelant to a 25k bonus before taxes), and negotiate a high DAILY rate regardless of % production/collection, and negotiate student loan repayment options (some DSOs have this). To negotiate this you need to be flexible with where you can practice because some DSO locations in the middle of nowhere are in extreme need for practitioners. Do this and pay out every SINGLE extra penny that you make (after emergency fund/monthly costs) into your loans. Honestly it sucks, but this is the only way. Using this strategy I've already paid out 60k loans in about 6 months of working, and will continue to blitz till 0.

 

[batman12345]

First, I would figure out the exact total you will owe after graduation. For various reasons, this is difficult to do while you are starting dental school. I anticipated ~50k less than what my loans ended up being after I graduated (due to interest accumulating, rising costs, etc...). This made me stress out a little more upon graduation because it made me feel like I was underestimating the whole student loan situation. This is important in your case because 400k is vastly different than 450k and mentally you can prepare yourself for whatever this number may be.

Secondly, during dental school, I would apply to every scholarship that you can. Seek your financial officer at the school and bug them about scholarship opportunities. There are a lot of them. I was able to get ~15k scholarships just by doing this. It's not much but it would take me 2-3 months of hard work in practice to pay that much.

Upon graduation, try to refinance or put your loans in the position that they STOP accumulating interest. For example, on 400k with 6% average interest, your DAILY interest accumulation is vastly different than if you refinanced with 3% or did some REPAYE options (all this depends on your particular situation). The first 6 months, the fed loans will be held in grace period where you don't have anything due, so people think "eh I'll worry about it later" but this is so wrong because interest is accumulating this whole time. I would rather refinance once I have a stable job and start paying it off.

For quick loan payoff, try to keep your monthly costs as LOW as possible (low to none rent/car payment, minimal spending) while keeping your income shovel as HIGH as possible. DSOs are notorious for giving out great sign on bonuses. Negotiate a high sign on bonus POST TAX (for example if a DSO gives 15k post tax that's equivelant to a 25k bonus before taxes), and negotiate a high DAILY rate regardless of % production/collection, and negotiate student loan repayment options (some DSOs have this). To negotiate this you need to be flexible with where you can practice because some DSO locations in the middle of nowhere are in extreme need for practitioners. Do this and pay out every SINGLE extra penny that you make (after emergency fund/monthly costs) into your loans. Honestly it sucks, but this is the only way. Using this strategy I've already paid out 60k loans in about 6 months of working, and will continue to blitz till 0.

This is amazing in depth advice. Thank you! When I interviewed at the school a couple months ago, they estimated exactly 440k in COA. They said about 40k/year in living expenses, but I hope to cut this down massively and live on less so I can be at the 400k or less number.

You also mentioned you are near Texas, know anything about the market in north-ish Texas near Dallas? Would prob be diff in 4 years anyway. Will prob have to be flexible with location like you said anyway.

 

[Big Time Hoosier]

they estimated exactly 440k in COA

Did they account for annual tuition increases? That can be anywhere from 3-7%.

Big Hoss

 

[batman12345]

Did they account for annual tuition increases? That can be anywhere from 3-7%.

Big Hoss

Don’t believe they did. They are a public school, not sure if that means less increases or not...

 

[monkeykey]

How did your relationship with classmates change over four years?
Over the 4 years of dental school personally my relationship with classmates changed quiet a bit.

In D1, we used to all mesh well together and there was more of a social aspect where everyone would come to parties/social events.
BUT, from D2 onwards, there was more of a clique environment where I had a really close group of friends that I built strong relationships with, and I didn't interact much socially with the people outside of my clique. It's just unavoidable in a dental school type of environment where we have classes together the whole time (so it feels like high school), so students tend to make a close group of friends and stick with that. This does not mean that I didn't like my classmates outside of my clique, and it was perfectly fine to hang out with them for lunch, etc... if, for example, we had rotations at on off site together.


Do you have a set salary only or salary+production %? Did you negotiate a contract or what was the process?
I have a set daily minimum ($600), with potential to be higher if I produce more. For example if I produce $4,000 on a particular day (which is doable), then I take home 25% (which is $1,000 for that day), so I would take home the higher amount which is $1,000. BUT if I produce $2000 on a particular day (also possible), then I take home $600 (since 25% of 2k is not higher than $600, so $600 is minimum daily rate).

Contract negotiation is important. I would look at comparable offers in your area, and proceed from there. It's tough to tell because one practice could offer you a less % of production (25% seems to be on the lower side), BUT you may have ability to produce more due to more patients than some other practice offering a higher percentage. So definitely do your homework.

In terms of negotiations, the following are equally important and often overlooked: sign-on bonus (POST tax), 401k benefits/matching, health/insurance benefits (malpractice, disability, health insurance), and PAID time off (how many days a year, etc..). Sometimes what looks to be a worse offer on paper based on just base salary COULD be a better option once these things are taken into account.

Does Corp give you a cap or no?

 

[AONLINE]

Honestly, DSO's are growing rapidly and they don't really care as much for a typical contract (they just want to get you in the door). With that said, if there is a bonus of some sort, expect to be there for 12-24 months otherwise you would have to pay back the bonus. That's their way of a "contract" these days.

How much was the bonus that you received from them? Did you have to relocate to a new city?