New developments in the "wife is not supportive" fight

ha, ha, ha, ha........you tell him!

And...seriously.....I really don't think you'd actually give up your practice for your wife unless there was something else she had to be concerned about? If that is what this world is coming to... the world will need a good therapist. Don't get me wrong, I'm a woman so I do know that sometimes we may not be fair. But this is about marriage and reality. The reason that over 50% of marriages end in divorce is because the two people lose their separate identities trying to "merge" into one. Like someone else on this thread said, there are a lot of worse situations Agent's wife can worry about than this one. With infidelity, lying spouses, abuse, etc this situation isn't all that bad, and I actually think that with the love it seems Agent has for his wife and children, he will be able to find a way... she'll come around once she feels more secure.
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Agent:

Have you considered something like the NHSC, Army or Air Force? If she's worried about finances, you could apply to USUHS... You'd be paid as a 2nd lieutenant (approx $35K per year + benefits) and have no medical school debt! Moreover, since you?d be pulling a decent wage, she could then go to school in the local area. Alternatively, there are HPSP scholarships that are quite nice and can be augmented with Stafford loans.

Although I know it is a scary time to consider such options, but it would allow both of you to pursue your individual goals. Moreover, medical school is an interesting place. I knew of plenty of people during the first two yeas that rarely came to classes and passed ? remember P=MD. You?d be surprised how much time you actually have, if you want it. In addition, you needn?t be at the top of your class the time commitment to go from a 70% to 80% is at least twice, and then twice again for 80-90. Having intermitted after 2nd year to get my PhD, I can tell you that even after doing well, there is an exponential decay in the knowledge. What you need to know, you?ll remember ? and be told, over and over and over again.

Also, you?d be surprised how many jobs offer student loan repayment as an incentive. Yeah you may be more rural, but you?ll be a Doc AND these rural jobs have a higher salary, too!

One more thing about finances, you can always pay your loans over 30 years, such that the monthly payment is about $750/month for $150K in loans. Importantly, the interest rate is now near 4.25 or 4.5%, and paying these off early doesn?t make much financial sense.

In anycase, just throwing out options. Something to discuss, maybe.

Airborne
 
Agent:

Have you considered something like the NHSC, Army or Air Force? If she's worried about finances, you could apply to USUHS... You'd be paid as a 2nd lieutenant (approx $35K per year + benefits) and have no medical school debt! Moreover, since you?d be pulling a decent wage, she could then go to school in the local area. Alternatively, there are HPSP scholarships that are quite nice and can be augmented with Stafford loans.

Although I know it is a scary time to consider such options, but it would allow both of you to pursue your individual goals. Moreover, medical school is an interesting place. I knew of plenty of people during the first two yeas that rarely came to classes and passed ? remember P=MD. You?d be surprised how much time you actually have, if you want it. In addition, you needn?t be at the top of your class the time commitment to go from a 70% to 80% is at least twice, and then twice again for 80-90. Having intermitted after 2nd year to get my PhD, I can tell you that even after doing well, there is an exponential decay in the knowledge. What you need to know, you?ll remember ? and be told, over and over and over again.

Also, you?d be surprised how many jobs offer student loan repayment as an incentive. Yeah you may be more rural, but you?ll be a Doc AND these rural jobs have a higher salary, too!

One more thing about finances, you can always pay your loans over 30 years, such that the monthly payment is about $750/month for $150K in loans. Importantly, the interest rate is now near 4.25 or 4.5%, and paying these off early doesn?t make much financial sense.

In anycase, just throwing out options. Something to discuss, maybe.

Airborne
 
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lately i have been seeing double visions in some threads, i think its time for me to go get those new glasses, *sigh*
 
hey agent,

Have you thought about checking with married people at school about getting together - like a club (I know it sounds stupid) it could be good for support on both sides...

Also, I think newdoc2002 is right on. I do believe that you should follow your heart in the field that you should choose to work, but 1st and for most you have a family! You have to think of what kind of a family you want - one that is disconnected or one that is loving and invovled.... I think everyone, who is married of plans to marry, wants a loving, supportive, invovled family life, and it does have alot to do with what kind of doctor you choose to be... and you may have to make compromises for your family!

Maybe, your wife is having such a hard time because she has a dream for herself and she does not see it happening or ever happing - but you are out there making your dream happen.... I quess I am saying that it sounds like there is something else deeper going on...
 
Originally posted by Newdoc2002
Agent,

Maybe you should e-mail Dr. Phil. I think he can solve all your problems. There may be a book on Amazon.com you can buy. Actually, I think your full of s#@!. It makes for good reading though and we all need a little excitement in our internet lives.

I came to this realization when I figured out that no sane person would ever post this personal spew on an internet forum to which literally 4,000,000,000 people have access.

And I actually love all the woe is me stories everyone else is sharing. We all have our obstacles and we all have decisions to make so for the love of God, please either crap or get off the pot.

P.S. I can't remember, did you tell us you already have a medical school slot? How do you know you you will get in. Fifty percent each year don't. So Whatever!:p
Click to expand...

As a fellow over 30 male, aren't you being a little harsh? Were you in a bad mood?
 
I must have miss read but Agent I thought that you were already in medical school. Yes, you do have a problem if you are fighting like this now, you are only an undergrad... Medical school is hard to get into and I think that you should try but you have to have your family behind you.

Think about it - you will not be making a dime and will be gone all the time... what is she going to do...
 
Agent,

I've been reading the thread and all the advice that has been given has been thought-provoking. My husband got his degree in Secondary Ed and Biology and then taught for three years and went back to medical school & residency. So, you could go into teaching and then, back into medical school. I will tell you however that he had to go back to the University and pick up some courses before getting into medical school. He went back as a part-time student, 6 hours a semester.

I'm an elementary teacher, so I'm knocking teachers at all, but teaching was not challenging him in the ways that he needed. I guess my point is that his heart was not into teaching, so that is why I encouraged him to go after his dream of becoming a medical doctor. Now, he will be finishing up his residency in Family Medicine in June 2003 and has been interviewing for jobs in our regional area. I, personally, am so thankful that he chose Family Medicine because it fits our lifestyle with our involvement in the community and church activities. We have two boys, one preschooler and one school-age. I used to think that I was lonely as a sahm and wanted to blame it all on my husband's medical career path, but I have since learned from other friends that their husbands work long hours too in professions like truck-driving and starting a model airplane business. Nothing that worth anything in life is easy. You have to work hard to get what you want and should not deny your gifts to people who need you. I do believe your wife's needs should be met, but so should yours. There has to come a time when their is an agreement between each of you that you both get what you want, but also understand that not getting exactly what you want at the very time you want develops patience & character. Yeah, I have felt like I sacrificed a lot of moments with my husband, but I try to teach our boys how valuable their Daddy is and make the best of our situation... If we were'nt in this situation, there would be another situation to deal with. There are always speedbumps in our lives, and we choose to deal with them with the least amount of pain with all parties involved (in this case, marriage). So, I just wanted to let you know that I hope you help each other find the real core of the problem and each of you gets the education that you want.

I read those statistics on what a Family Medicine physician makes and they are very low compared to what my husband has been offered in a rural setting. So, that's just to let you know that the salaries mentioned are not necessarily everywhere. The average salary a Family Medicine physician makes is $120,000 from what I have read on the Net. Just FYI.

Sincerely,
Christy
 
Originally posted by im4real
Agent,

If we were'nt in this situation, there would be another situation to deal with.

Sincerely,
Christy
Click to expand...

Thanks Christy,

I feel the same way, but to appease my wife for now I will probably be teaching for a few years. I'm not trying to knock teachers either, but im not too sure it will challenge me either.

I'm sure there are ways to make it more interesting for me, but IMO medicine would be the ultimate challenge/goal.

Maybe someday, I'm not ruling it out, just putting it on the back burner till I get my degree.

Anyone go to Roosevelt University in IL?

Supposedly they have a good bio program.
 
Agent,

I have little to add to the great bits of advice people have been posting here. But I just wanted to say that I feel for you, and admire anyone who is struggling to fulfull their dreams and support themselves and their family.

I just hope that you'll eventually resolve the issues that are causing you such pain.

- Tae
 
Agent,

If you try to appease the wife now, you'll be doing it later too. If medicine is really in your blood...don't settle for less. My husband told me that he had to be a doctor. At first I was hesitant...we just started making good money, planning on having children. The thought of me working rather than a stay at home just sucks. The thought of being poor, reall sucks.

But when your husband says that there's nothing in the world that would make him happier than to be a doctor......

If medicine is really what you need.....you'll be sorry later in life that you didn't do it. Delaying your decision, will only make it worse. You won't be happy being a teacher and you won't be happy 10 years from now, when you sit and think that you could be a doctor, if you would have started the process 10 years ago.

This must be hard for you. Good Luck
 
I've always declined to comment on your threads, out of respect for your marriage, and fact that you already have children.

But, it's hard for me not to agree with dancin4panic. There is no question that I wouldn't be married if my spouse gave ultimatums about my medical career. Certainly it's true that I've made concessions - and my husband has made many more than I have. I chose a residency based in large part on issues of lifestyle (yes, I'm a surgeon, but my training program is probably one of the most benign in the country). And my choice on the type of practice I'm going into is heavily influenced by my husband's desires to live in the western US and in a medium sized community.

On the other hand, he knows, and we have talked frankly about the fact that our marriage would have never survived demands to forego medical training or even surgery training. It's such a huge part of who I am and what I want for myself.

None of us envy your predicament. I applaud your efforts to aggressively seek a workable solution for you and for your family.
 
Originally posted by womansurg

I applaud your efforts to aggressively seek a workable solution for you and for your family.
Click to expand...

Aggressively is the right word.

I don't know anymore, I swear my wife has become a glimpse of the person that I married. I love her for bearing and caring for my children, but with every little nastiness and controlling/ dominating behavior she displays, I question my patience and staying power.

I want to make her happy, because I am a "pleaser" yet I'm wise enough to know that if I'm not happy, then I cannot make anyone else happy. It's a very sad predicament for me.

Maybe someday, due to God, I will be shown the right path and I hope I will be allowed to excel with my gifts in the practice of medicine.
 
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Hey, Agent. I read through all five pages, and you got some excellent advice. But I thought I'd put in my coinage, too.

I've been married for over eight years now to a really wonderful man, but the first three years just sucked. A lot. The "D" word got bandied about on an almost daily basis. Wine glasses were thrown. We spent the GNP of some small countries on marriage therapy (we actually went into debt to do it - thank God for personal loans).

And what was all the fuss about? My husband was pursuing a degree in physics, and I didn't have a high-school diploma. Hanging out with his exceedingly intelligent friends, watching him excel in what he loved doing, made me feel completely worthless. I got really depressed, and then I made the decision to pursue what I wanted to do. I thought initially I had his support, but as my confidence grew, he got threatened. And honestly, school changed me - after two years of chemistry and fighting for B's in math, I really wasn't the laid-back, que sera woman he married.

Long story short, we worked through it, but it required us to build boundaries and learn to compromise. Now, my situation differs from yours in that we don't have kids, but doesn't the crux sound the same? My message to you is one you've already heard several times - get therapy, and stick with it. Learn the delicate balance of sticking up for yourself while letting your wife do the same. But most of all, BE PATIENT. In my experience, the first years of marriage for some of us are akin to walking through lakes of hell-fire, but it gets better once you really get to know one another, and find you still like your spouse.

Hope this helps,

Nanon
 
LOL@lakes of hellfire.

The saga continues. Its going to be a few years till I would be ready to apply. Should I apply even if she doesnt want me to, just to see I get in and then maybe defer?
 
Hi Agent

I've been following your plight for a while. I have some ideas, which I hope might help.

You seem both settled on the idea of a bio major. Would you be able to spend the rest of the school year (or longer) just focused on your many responsibilities in the present, and not plan for the future with your wife? I suspect that a cooling off period might help, and if you do major in bio, you will still be on track for med school.

There's been some speculation about the idea that she might feel better about everything if she went to school, but feels that she can't do that and be a good mom. What if she were to take one or two child development/early childhood education classes next semester. Depending on the laws in your state (in Ca you need 12 ECE units) she would be on her way to being a preschool teacher, which means that she can 1. Take the kids to work with her (age limits vary, some preschools will accept kids as young as 18 months). 2. Work half days if she wants. 3. Work with kids (your posts seemed to say that she enjoys them). 4. See if she likes being in school.

In the long run, if she likes school, she could go back for an AA or BA as soon as your youngest is school age, and if she is a teacher and your kids go to preschool free, that could mean when they are in preschool (work half days, have kids there all day). I suspect that if she worked somewhere, she would feel more comfortable leaving them for a few hours a day with her co-teachers. Maybe she could end up being the high school bio teacher...
 
Thanks for the advice.. This semester I get to apply to Roosevelt and for aid.

Lets all see what happens.
 
Originally posted by agent
Maybe someday, due to God, I will be shown the right path and I hope I will be allowed to excel with my gifts in the practice of medicine.
Click to expand...

Wow, what a long thread. Some was painful to read, some was interesting, some was enlightening, some was insightful.

My thought is that we all want to experience fulfillment, and we all hope to get it through a variety of ways. I think we need to acknowledge that no single thing will make any of us a perfectly fulfilled person. A couple of thoughts:

- It is possible to have a fulfilling career. But a fulfilling career does not necessarily make you a fulfilled person.

- It is possible to have a fulfilling marriage and fulfilling relationships in your family. But this does not make you a fulfilled person either.

- It is possible to have fulfilling experiences in many things from family to hobbies to career. None of them, nor any combination of them, will necessarily make you a fulfilled person.

- It is also possible to have great career, great marriage, great family, great hobbies, great pay-- and still feel hollow.

The questions I would ask are:


WHAT IS MOTIVATING MY NEW (?) INTEREST IN MEDICINE?

A job that actually interests me? That is fair. Because it's my true calling? Possibly, but over one lifetime we can have many desires and interests. Because it will make me satisfied and fulfilled? No, because it probably won't tide you over in satisfaction for life-- that satisfaction has to come from somewhere else.

Look sincerely into what you want to get out of going into medicine, and consider seriously whether those expectations are realistic. For example, if you are thinking that it will make you happy for life, it likely won't-- that would be unrealistic and you are probably placing more of your eggs in one basket than is safe.


WHAT ARE THE MOST IMPORTANT PRIORITIES IN MY LIFE?

If it's your family, would you be willing to give up medicine for it? To be realistic, in the end it is a job, no matter how potentially (potentially only!) satisfying the job is. At the end, you will (hopefully) still retire and stop working full time.

If medicine comes with the price tag of losing your family, do you think your (possible) job satisfaction is worth it?

In life, we can't have all things, and none of them will be completely satisfying all the time. It is a given that some things will have to be given up, and not all things we ought to do are what we want to do. As you know, there is no right or wrong here-- just a question of what's most important and a matter of accepting that we cannot have all the things we want; sometimes the right decisions are to give up what we want, and sometimes the right decisions are to do what we want. I would say to make the choices that you feel are most responsible; in your case, I have no idea what those would be, but good luck.
:)
 
Originally posted by agent
LOL@lakes of hellfire.

The saga continues. Its going to be a few years till I would be ready to apply. Should I apply even if she doesnt want me to, just to see I get in and then maybe defer?
Click to expand...

I wouldn't recommend this course of action, 'cause it will just add fuel to the fire. This does, in the end (if you want to keep the marriage going), have to be a decision that both of you make.

Having said that - You have two years (at least) to work some of these issues through. You must, must do this. I suspect that what's really going on in your marriage has very little to do with whether or not you go to medical school. And until you guys pinpoint what the problem is, no matter what you decide to do, it will come up again and again, in different ways. At least, that's the pattern in my own marriage, and in most other marriages that I've seen.

Keep us posted...

Nanon
 
Update:

I just finished this semester.

Three A's. The A in Upper Level Statsistics was the hardest to get. I feel like that class prepared me failrly well for upcoming challenging courses.

Next semester starts jan 13th. I will be taking just 2 classes. Pre-calc to satisfy a requirement for my BS in Bio and Intro to Psych which is a retake to raise my gpa.

With these three A's this semester, my gpa should go up to 3.3.

If I can manage an A in Psych, (since I got a D last time -- 4 years ago as a freshman) it should raise my gpa to about 3.5.

Then I can apply to Phi Theta Kappa and hopefully get some more money towards Roosevelt U. Its pretty expensive and I'm broke.

On the family front, I feel the wife is slowly accepting that I can do this. She wants me to pursue the bio degree with a minor in sec. ed. so I can teach high school bio if I can't cut it, but she did recently say when the med school subject was brought up that we will cross that bridge when we get there.

That makes me think that she is accepting it, but I must continue to prove I can balance school and family and get good grades.
 
:clap: :clap:

Congratulations on a semester well done. I'm glad to hear that you are cutting back to two classes for next semester. I'm a big believer of enjoying life while you live it. Some delayed gratification is okay, but with work and a family and school, I bet that you're beyond delaying gratification and into delaying sleep.

Have a great winter (academic) break.
 
Yes I have been into delaying sleep. I should be well prepared for 3rd year if I ever get there.

Thanks everyone. I'll update this thread as new developments arise ;)
 
Great job Agent!! :) You'll make it. I'm in Phi Theta Kappa and it is a great organization. I'm in Chicago too- what college do you go to?
 
Currently McHenry County College. It's closest to my work.
 
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