New Poll: How would people like to change pharmacy admissions criteria

[MrMeowphers]

There are many individuals on this forum that complain of "lack" of prestige in this profession, and many whom would like to see admissions tighten up to protect new pharmacists from massive surpluses.

Vote to see what you all would like.

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[tungsten87]

make admissions tougher and completely revamp the PCAT (it is a joke right now).

 

[MrMeowphers]

make admissions tougher and completely revamp the PCAT (it is a joke right now).

The PCAT could definitely be more difficult, but if you think about it, the content it measures is supposed to be written for someone who has completed 2 years of college.

Exams like the DAT, OAT, and MCAT are difficult for their own reasons and because it is aimed at someone who has already been in school for 3-4 years.

For one, the latter 3 exams just mentioned have 5 answer choices compared to the PCAT's 4 answer choices.

The PCAT has RC, verbal, math, chem, and bio
The DAT has the same except has spacial object orientation/folding instead of verbal (tough stuff).
The OAT has physics instead of verbal.
The MCAT is basically ALL reading comprehension.

 

[crazybob]

make admissions tougher and completely revamp the PCAT (it is a joke right now).

By comparing to a more recent sample of students who have taken the PCAT?

One thing I will add though, is that at MRM one of the things our region discussed was adding 3 years of undergrad to the list of requirements for applying to pharmacy school. And who's the first to complain? The 0-6 school. The only person to speak from that school said "it's a waste of time and money, and we would be taking classes to learn things that a pharmacist will not use."

I wanted to ask her why she thought that 0-6 schools would be affected. Some of the students at my school said that they did 2 years of undergrad and started pharmacy school and they have been doing fine, whereas there are people who finished college but have struggled more than typical students.

If you want to add any changes so that students can be more prepared, add more upper level courses into the pre-requisites instead of just increasing the number of years spent in school.

 

[Duc888]

make admissions tougher and completely revamp the PCAT (it is a joke right now).

if you think the MCAT is a joke, take a look at the LSAT, that's a real farce

 

[EddieL]

I don't think 0-6 programs should be removed. And by the way, it's not true that all medicine programs require a BS/BA, there are some 2+4 programs out there, but they are extremely competitive.

The biggest thing that needs to be done are:
(1) shutting down the degree mills or we're going to start to mirror law.
(2) putting a limit on pharmacy class sizes (i.e. only these many students for this amount of teachers, etc)
(3) better working conditions for pharmacists in the retail side of things
(4) more residencies for pharmacists (since they may be required in 2020)

 

[tungsten87]

The PCAT could definitely be more difficult, but if you think about it, the content it measures is supposed to be written for someone who has completed 2 years of college.

so is the MCAT (gen chem 1/2, organic 1/2, bio/physio).

If you want to add any changes so that students can be more prepared, add more upper level courses into the pre-requisites instead of just increasing the number of years spent in school.

some schools already do this (ie: university of tennessee).

 

[crazybob]

I don't think 0-6 programs should be removed. And by the way, it's not true that all medicine programs require a BS/BA, there are some 2+4 programs out there, but they are extremely competitive.

The biggest thing that needs to be done are:
(1) shutting down the degree mills or we're going to start to mirror law.
(2) putting a limit on pharmacy class sizes (i.e. only these many students for this amount of teachers, etc)
(3) better working conditions for pharmacists in the retail side of things
(4) more residencies for pharmacists (since they may be required in 2020)

Not with all of the independent pharmacies around.

 

[confettiflyer]

this poll kind of sucks

BS/BA is not generally a mandatory requirement for MD/DMD/OD/etc.. programs, it's a de facto requirement. Big difference. PharmD is already in line with these programs (most of the rx programs out there).

0-7 programs exist for the MD and they don't seem to have a "prestige" problem, so we'll keep 0-6 intact.


1) I would make the PCAT infinitely harder (it's pretty much a joke) and more like the MCAT. No need to make it mandatory, it'll happen by itself.

2) Increase residency spots to match growth in that area.

3) Increase accreditation requirements...this is probably already the case with contracts signed w/ rotation sites, but I'd make those mandatory since that puts a natural limit on the # of schools in an area with few clinical sites available due to saturation.

Or rather, part of accreditation is based on how much an area can handle an influx of students in terms of clinical rotations and letters of understanding with major institutions & the new school.

 

[confettiflyer]

(2) putting a limit on pharmacy class sizes (i.e. only these many students for this amount of teachers, etc)

this already exists for new schools.

 

[waterloggedfrog]

I don't understand why people are saying make the PCAT harder. You get a percentile score, so I mean your score would basically be the same even if it was harder. If you scored better than 80% of the other people that took it when it was easier then you would score better than 80% of the other people that took it when it was harder, if all other variables are the same (study time put in, good nights sleep, etc).

 

[PharmyMen]

Stop building more schools. It's as simple as that.

edit: Once I get in, stop. hehe

 

[boltdude]

I don't understand why people are saying make the PCAT harder. You get a percentile score, so I mean your score would basically be the same even if it was harder. If you scored better than 80% of the other people that took it when it was easier then you would score better than 80% of the other people that took it when it was harder, if all other variables are the same (study time put in, good nights sleep, etc).

lol good point. I say require Bachelors degree.

 

[Tinkerbell22]

I think pharmacy is getting to the point where having a bachelor's degree will be somewhat of an unspoken rule because of the competition from so many qualified applicants with degrees or even advanced degrees... but right now there are still way way way way more people going to pharmacy school after 2 years of pre-reqs opposed to medical and dental schools. If so many new schools are opening, there will always be a demand for new students with or without a degree because the applicant pool is being spread out.

Plus the PCAT is ridiculously easy... yeah it may be different if you took the bare minimum pre-reqs, but for someone with a sound background in the sciences and a working knowledge of the English language it is not that difficult. I'm not saying to make it harder because I don't know if that would help, being that a lot of great schools don't require it... but it is what it is.

I'm not sure about the 0-7 programs for medical schools, but it sounds like something my school had. I went to the University of Miami and they offer their pre-meds the chance to apply early and earn a guaranteed acceptance. I'm not sure if you can start taking medical classes along with your bachelor's degree though, but I think they might do something like that. It's a pretty old MD program so I guess that is something that happens with medical schools, but it's not like you can apply straight out of high school, and you have to have a MUCH higher college GPA to earn the guaranteed acceptance.

 

[bacillus1]

People are prepared enough with 2 years of prereqs. I don't see the reason to prolong pharmacy school even more. And what's wrong with 0-6 programs? If you make it through, you are just as competent as someone graduating from a regular pharmacy program. I just say somehow limit the # of new schools opening.

 

[MrMeowphers]

this poll kind of sucks

BS/BA is not generally a mandatory requirement for MD/DMD/OD/etc.. programs, it's a de facto requirement. Big difference. PharmD is already in line with these programs (most of the rx programs out there).

0-7 programs exist for the MD and they don't seem to have a "prestige" problem, so we'll keep 0-6 intact.

There are a handful of schools that I know off the bat that are 0+7 year MD programs (E.g. Baylor).

The largest difference (which Tinkerbell stated) is that those programs are insanely difficult to get in compared to the 0+6 pharmacy schools.

My only chief complaint is that there is a certain maturity level that is gained by completing 4 years of college (I'm not suggesting that all college grad's or even adults are 'mature') that isn't gained through simply coming out of high-school and jumping into a 0+6 program. I'll reiterate this again, even 2-4 years at a university makes you grow up (need better time management skills, ability to be somewhat organized, teaching the delay of gratification [like skipping the thursday binge drinking in order to study for the exam at 8am on friday] )

Also, I just feel you get to sample more career choices while in college.

Heck, I went from Biochem/Pre-Pharm to Math major to Pre-Med to History major to Religions major back to Biochem major (finished it in 4 solid years + 2 summer schools). It reaffirmed that I enjoy research (hence my MS), then after grad. school I realized I would like to do more Bench-to-Bedside type of work (clinical/research/combo); hence I'm in pharm school now.

 

[bacillus1]

There are a handful of schools that I know off the bat that are 0+7 year MD programs (E.g. Baylor).

The largest difference (which Tinkerbell stated) is that those programs are insanely difficult to get in compared to the 0+6 pharmacy schools.

My only chief complaint is that there is a certain maturity level that is gained by completing 4 years of college (I'm not suggesting that all college grad's or even adults are 'mature') that isn't gained through simply coming out of high-school and jumping into a 0+6 program. I'll reiterate this again, even 2-4 years at a university makes you grow up (need better time management skills, ability to be somewhat organized, teaching the delay of gratification [like skipping the thursday binge drinking in order to study for the exam at 8am on friday] )

Also, I just feel you get to sample more career choices while in college.

Heck, I went from Biochem/Pre-Pharm to Math major to Pre-Med to History major to Religions major back to Biochem major (finished it in 4 solid years + 2 summer schools). It reaffirmed that I enjoy research (hence my MS), then after grad. school I realized I would like to do more Bench-to-Bedside type of work (clinical/research/combo); hence I'm in pharm school now.

Alright, I have no problem with making them more difficult to get into, but eliminating them altogether would be a bit of a stretch.

 

[pharmD eighty7]

Definitely increase the difficulty of the PCAT. I think there should be more importance placed on Organic in the chemistry section. In my opinion there should be a limit on how many schools a state can open. I live in tennessee, and we have like six now. However, the only reputable ones are ETSU and UT. I think we are going to see that school choice is going to come into play more and more in the future because of this influx of schools.

 

[evilolive]

The PCAT was such a joke several years ago when I took it, and they apparently made it "harder." I still remember one question on the biology section that had a picture of a cell with an arrow pointed to a ribosome and asked what it was. Hotshot pharmacy reasoning required there. I got in the 90s without ever taking anatomy or physiology.

 

[joh0472]

I say let the market correct its self. Higher regulation results in lower quality. If the market gets saturated with too many pharmacist then the number of schools will either stagnant or shrink. Too many of you in this forum are pseudo-economist that thing your view of the matter is what is best for the industry. Let the AACP do their job.

 

[EddieL]

I say let the market correct its self. Higher regulation results in lower quality. If the market gets saturated with too many pharmacist then the number of schools will either stagnant or shrink. Too many of you in this forum are pseudo-economist that thing your view of the matter is what is best for the industry. Let the AACP do their job.

Unfortunately, this isn't true. Look at law schools. Huge surplus there, but schools are still opening. As long as there are students wanting to be lawyers or pharmacists because they believe that the profession is lucrative and guarantees a job, there will be new law and pharmacy schools.

 

[rxlea]

The PCAT could certainly use some work- especially the biology and verbal section. I mean, c'mon! The biology section was a frickin' joke.

 

[Carboxide]

I want to see:

A shut down of new schools (or at least no more opening for SEVERAL YEARS)

An across-the-board minimum GPA requirement of a 3.0

A requirement to disclose applications to any other professional schools (e.g. MD school apps, to weed out 'backup' people)

Making a bachelor's the same as for medical schools (not 'required' necessarily, but regularly 99% of applicants have one)

Make the PCAT harder: Specifically more organic chemistry, more advanced biology/biochemistry, etc. The PCAT should be tailored towards students who have completed at least three years of school before taking.

Any new schools opening should be voted on by established (fully accredited) schools. If the answer is no, the new schools do not open. There exists a need for SIGNIFICANTLY better regulation of when schools are allowed to open. Schools like D'youville should never have been given pre-candidate status.

 

[confettiflyer]

There are a handful of schools that I know off the bat that are 0+7 year MD programs (E.g. Baylor).

The largest difference (which Tinkerbell stated) is that those programs are insanely difficult to get in compared to the 0+6 pharmacy schools.

My only chief complaint is that there is a certain maturity level that is gained by completing 4 years of college (I'm not suggesting that all college grad's or even adults are 'mature') that isn't gained through simply coming out of high-school and jumping into a 0+6 program. I'll reiterate this again, even 2-4 years at a university makes you grow up (need better time management skills, ability to be somewhat organized, teaching the delay of gratification [like skipping the thursday binge drinking in order to study for the exam at 8am on friday] )

Also, I just feel you get to sample more career choices while in college.

Heck, I went from Biochem/Pre-Pharm to Math major to Pre-Med to History major to Religions major back to Biochem major (finished it in 4 solid years + 2 summer schools). It reaffirmed that I enjoy research (hence my MS), then after grad. school I realized I would like to do more Bench-to-Bedside type of work (clinical/research/combo); hence I'm in pharm school now.

I can agree with the maturity thing, I see it too vs. those in my class that didn't go to rigorous institutions as an undergrad. I think they whine/complain a lot more, but that's just anecdotal. Most of my friends have their BS/BA degrees and kind of have a "oh been there, done that" attitude about things whereas some newbies are incredulous that they have to somewhat "teach themselves" and that people who don't go to class get higher grades (i guess attendance counted for them at their college?)

 

[crazybob]

!) If we require applicants to have bachelors degrees before starting pharmacy school, that will decrease the number of applicants and the students who start will tend to be more prepared.

2) If there are fewer applicants, hopefully the schools will reduce class sizes. I realize this may not happen, but it's a possibility.

3) If the graduating class is full of good students who started pharmacy school when they were well-prepared, then the new pharmacists will be good pharmacists.

4) With smaller graduating classes, they should have less difficulty finding jobs since there's less competition.

5) After a while, the surplus should be at ease.

I know this is a bunch of fantasy crap But it's just a guess.

 

[Namishin]

I can agree with the maturity thing, I see it too vs. those in my class that didn't go to rigorous institutions as an undergrad. I think they whine/complain a lot more, but that's just anecdotal. Most of my friends have their BS/BA degrees and kind of have a "oh been there, done that" attitude about things whereas some newbies are incredulous that they have to somewhat "teach themselves" and that people who don't go to class get higher grades (i guess attendance counted for them at their college?)

I couldn't possibly agree with you more. I assume the attendance thing stems from being part of a CC. Complaining about the professor/teacher and how hard the work was as a kid might have been a good way to fit in with your peers, but at the upper level no one will have sympathy for those that can't teach themselves.

 

[confettiflyer]

I couldn't possibly agree with you more. I assume the attendance thing stems from being part of a CC. Complaining about the professor/teacher and how hard the work was as a kid might have been a good way to fit in with your peers, but at the upper level no one will have sympathy for those that can't teach themselves.

Well I mean we complain/bitch about things, but that's usually kept to ourselves and at the bars on thursday/friday nights. Some of these students are actually complaining to the dean. Total abuse of access right there (taking advantage of the fact that our school only had 75 students period our first year).

Seriously someone complained about people walking into class late and "distracting" them....c'mon, get a life, deal with it.

 

[MrMeowphers]

I'm agreeing with confettiflyer that there are a handful of the "newbies" who love to brown-nose and make everything into a big deal.

Ex.) "How did you beat me on the exam when I've always shown up to class?"

or "What does ln stand for? " (The prof. promptly responded: "It is a button on your calculator for natural log"). OWNED!!!!!!!

or my favorite response I've heard at least a handful of times now: "I didn't do well on the exam because he/she didn't tell us what would be on the exam"

Apparently they are the only ones in the class that thought Pharm school would just be another year of High school sing-along .

 

[confettiflyer]

I'm agreeing with confettiflyer that there are a handful of the "newbies" who love to brown-nose and make everything into a big deal.

Ex.) "How did you beat me on the exam when I've always shown up to class?"

or "What does ln stand for? " (The prof. promptly responded: "It is a button on your calculator for natural log"). OWNED!!!!!!!

or my favorite response I've heard at least a handful of times now: "I didn't do well on the exam because he/she didn't tell us what would be on the exam"

Apparently they are the only ones in the class that thought Pharm school would just be another year of High school sing-along .

ahhahahah

you know exactly what i'm talking about

the voices of the students in my class are coming to life in my brain as i read these

 

[MrMeowphers]

haha they're real life for me every day

I bet after they finish Pharm School, they'll probably say "I didn't do my job correctly because the manager didnt hold me hand and double-check my work"

 

[alenadoma]

I think pharmacy experience should be a requirement for getting in. People need to know exactly what they are getting themselves into!

 

[pharmD eighty7]

too many of you in this forum are pseudo-economist that thing your view of the matter is what is best for the industry.

 

[pharm B]

I think pharmacy experience should be a requirement for getting in. People need to know exactly what they are getting themselves into!

Are we talking retail experience? Hospital? If my only knowledge of pharmacy came from my retail experience, I'd hit up the closest truck driving school.

I am surprised how little people talk about volunteering in any clinical capacity compared to pre-meds, though.

 

[nicolemsm]

I think pharmacy experience should be a requirement for getting in. People need to know exactly what they are getting themselves into!

I don't see how ANYONE gets themselves into pharmacy school without a clue what it's even like to be behind the counter in ANY pharmacy setting. Shoot how hard is it to shadow a pharmacist for even 2 hours? I mean at the minimum people are completing 2 yrs of pre-reqs, you're going to tell me there was no space in that time frame whatsoever to shadow, or gain experience in the pharmacy setting?

I'm taking a full load, 20 credits, involved in clubs outside of those classes and even I find time to run for a leading regional position in Phi Theta Kappa, study for the PTCB, get my CPhT cert., volunteer, and STILL have time to work out everyday, play Wii, enjoy my day, etc..... It's totally possible.

I think schools should require a minimum amount of hours in any pharmacy setting... I also read in the pharmacy interview feedback section some people were questioned if they knew other aspects of pharmacy besides retail, hospital.... I'm surprised some of these people can easily slip through the cracks.

 

[pharm B]

The only hope is for candidates to make themselves more competitive. But then that brings up the issue of degree mills.

Round and round and round we go.

 

[joh0472]

Unfortunately, this isn't true. Look at law schools. Huge surplus there, but schools are still opening. As long as there are students wanting to be lawyers or pharmacists because they believe that the profession is lucrative and guarantees a job, there will be new law and pharmacy schools.

Law schools are an excellent example of how the free market is working. Although there are a huge number of lawyers there are still competitive positions for the best lawyers. The future of pharmacy will be a less homogenized salary range and higher salaries for the elite pharmacists and lower salaries for the incompetent. Let the market do it's thing. I don't worry about it because I plan on being elite in any profession that I do and will suceed through my own efforts not my degree.

 

[ShadowRX]

I don't see how ANYONE gets themselves into pharmacy school without a clue what it's even like to be behind the counter in ANY pharmacy setting. Shoot how hard is it to shadow a pharmacist for even 2 hours? I mean at the minimum people are completing 2 yrs of pre-reqs, you're going to tell me there was no space in that time frame whatsoever to shadow, or gain experience in the pharmacy setting?

I'm taking a full load, 20 credits, involved in clubs outside of those classes and even I find time to run for a leading regional position in Phi Theta Kappa, study for the PTCB, get my CPhT cert., volunteer, and STILL have time to work out everyday, play Wii, enjoy my day, etc..... It's totally possible.

I think schools should require a minimum amount of hours in any pharmacy setting... I also read in the pharmacy interview feedback section some people were questioned if they knew other aspects of pharmacy besides retail, hospital.... I'm surprised some of these people can easily slip through the cracks.

Don't be hasty there. Not everyone has time to do all the things you do. Some do, but the majority does not. We are in a recession, you know. Times are tough, people gotta make money. Most of us (i.e. 80-90%) are paying our own way through school. So, don't tell us all that it's easy to volunteer at a pharmacy.

Texas laws are hard as hell, I'll tell ya. It IS impossible to volunteer at any pharmacy. I got my PTCB and have been a tech for close to 3 years, paying my way through undergrad. If you got the money, good for you. If you're riding on your parents' coat-tails through 2 years undergrad, I don't really care. Some of us have to bust our butts to get to where we are and where we want to go.

Getting into pharmacy school will be the cherry on top of my graduation sundae.

 

[nicolemsm]

Don't be hasty there. Not everyone has time to do all the things you do. Some do, but the majority does not. We are in a recession, you know. Times are tough, people gotta make money. Most of us (i.e. 80-90%) are paying our own way through school. So, don't tell us all that it's easy to volunteer at a pharmacy.

Texas laws are hard as hell, I'll tell ya. It IS impossible to volunteer at any pharmacy. I got my PTCB and have been a tech for close to 3 years, paying my way through undergrad. If you got the money, good for you. If you're riding on your parents' coat-tails through 2 years undergrad, I don't really care. Some of us have to bust our butts to get to where we are and where we want to go.

Getting into pharmacy school will be the cherry on top of my graduation sundae.

How did you gather that 80-90% statistic that people are paying their own way? You know 42.7% of all statistics are made up on the spot.... I highly doubt that many people are fully paying for their education, if you mean getting loans and grants then yes, I agree, but not paying out of pocket.

I've worked my butt off to recieve any and all of the scholarships and grants I'm receiving so by no means am I riding on anyone's let alone my single mother's coat tails... nice assumption there, but no. I'm poorer than poor so I know nothing is life is handed to people, especially not females of Caucasian decent (which happens to be my case). I understand we're in a recession, but that isn't an excuse for not volunteering or "being involved". I never mentioned volunteering in a pharmacy specifically, I just said gaining experience and shadowing for at least 2 hours. I mean come on, think about things here. What amount of time do you spend on the computer or watching tv, that time could be spent at the local shelter handing out food... volunteering is vast, it doesn't HAVE to be in a pharmacy as I previously mentioned. That does not seem very difficult. Arizona too has laws about not being able to go behind a pharmacy counter until you're 18, I managed to by pass that law and gained my shadowing experience at the age of 17 (my current age). There are ALWAYS ways around rules. Learn to bend them and make things work for you.

I don't understand how ANYONE could know they want to be a pharmacist without actually being in a pharmacy at least once?
That makes no sense at all?

 

[MiataMike]

I feel 2-3 years in college is enough just because that's enough time for someone to get a feel for what college actually is, and they would make a much more informed decision whether pharmacy school is right for them or not. High school kids are idiots, so they get into a 0+6 program and then drop out because they can't take it.

The PCAT's just stupid. Every section is rushed and gives you next to no time to actually THINK about the answer. How they gauge that as a measure of your abilities in pharmacy school is beyond me. The content was fine, each section just needs MUCH more time, particularly the math and orgo sections.

 

[confettiflyer]

I don't see how ANYONE gets themselves into pharmacy school without a clue what it's even like to be behind the counter in ANY pharmacy setting. Shoot how hard is it to shadow a pharmacist for even 2 hours? I mean at the minimum people are completing 2 yrs of pre-reqs, you're going to tell me there was no space in that time frame whatsoever to shadow, or gain experience in the pharmacy setting?

I'm taking a full load, 20 credits, involved in clubs outside of those classes and even I find time to run for a leading regional position in Phi Theta Kappa, study for the PTCB, get my CPhT cert., volunteer, and STILL have time to work out everyday, play Wii, enjoy my day, etc..... It's totally possible.

I think schools should require a minimum amount of hours in any pharmacy setting... I also read in the pharmacy interview feedback section some people were questioned if they knew other aspects of pharmacy besides retail, hospital.... I'm surprised some of these people can easily slip through the cracks.

I'm gonna 100% disagree and I'll tell you why... I worked for a full year in the retail setting prior to matriculation and am currently working inpatient, as an intern or even a pre-pharm, you're only privy to a certain aspect of that setting. Yes, you do get to observe the general workflow of the pharmacy and yes, you do get to pick up little things like brand/generic names and random indications here and there.

Pharmacy school is academically rigorous, I think someone's capacity to learn is FAR more important than what they've picked up as a minimum wage clerk at your local rite-aid. Most of my friends who have succeeded in pharmacy school had zero experience going in. Your policy would automatically put students who had alternative experience at a disadvantage (lab researchers, people who studied abroad and couldn't fit in a job, and those who needed to work during college to support themselves but did so at a higher paying job).

This is what IPPE experiences are for...everything I learned in my year in retail I picked up in my 1st two sessions at community pharmacy IPPE. My IPPE inpatient experiences are on track to match/exceed what I'm picking up inpatient side (this isn't a fair comparison since i'm IN rx school while working inpatient vs. being a pre-pharm at CVS).

I think too much is placed on extracurricular activities + work experience on the applicant side. I usually hear "oh i have a dismal GPA and suck at school...it's okay, i have a bajillion clubs and work experience to blame it on!" sometimes it works, but remember...you're gonna spend 3 years cramming a TON of science into your brain, no amount of work/club experience will change this fact.

while i share your frustration about clueless prepharms applying in, i see far more examples of those with zero experience who are high academic performers.

 

[bacillus1]

I feel 2-3 years in college is enough just because that's enough time for someone to get a feel for what college actually is, and they would make a much more informed decision whether pharmacy school is right for them or not. High school kids are idiots, so they get into a 0+6 program and then drop out because they can't take it.

Well yes, they drop. But the ones that stay and can handle it get an education as good as that of traditional programs. So these programs shouldn't shut down. It's just the students' fault of going to a program they can't handle. Also the schools could toughen their admissions criteria, but what's their financial incentive for that?

 

[Basilone]

A requirement to disclose applications to any other professional schools (e.g. MD school apps, to weed out 'backup' people)

I read somewhere (probably here) that for the 2011 application cycle, pharmcas will be reporting all the schools an applicant has applied to and if they were accepted.

 

[Passion4Sci]

I read somewhere (probably here) that for the 2011 application cycle, pharmcas will be reporting all the schools an applicant has applied to and if they were accepted.

That's news to me.

 

[EddieL]

Law schools are an excellent example of how the free market is working. Although there are a huge number of lawyers there are still competitive positions for the best lawyers. The future of pharmacy will be a less homogenized salary range and higher salaries for the elite pharmacists and lower salaries for the incompetent. Let the market do it's thing. I don't worry about it because I plan on being elite in any profession that I do and will suceed through my own efforts not my degree.

Good idea, but that pretty much already exists. Hospital pharmacy jobs are the "competitive positions" that typically require a residency. Residency is getting more and more competitive to get into. The only difference is that law doesn't reserve the best positions for the best lawyers; they're reserved for graduates of the best law schools. Even if someone is the best lawyer in the world, if they graduate from a crappy law school, their opportunities will be more limited than a mediocre lawyer who graduated from a great law school. Due to the surplus of law schools, this actually prevents the market from working fairly.

As proven by what has happened with law, the more and more pharmacy schools that open, the less your "efforts" matter and the more imperative where you got your degree will become.

By the way - the "elite" positions in pharmacy tend to pay less than their retail counterparts

 

[NaOH]

Strictly speaking from my own perceptions, I think requiring an undergraduate degree is probably the easiest and most effective thing to do. As has been stated, it is already trending that way unofficially it seems, but... there does seem to be a perception gap between us and other professional programs that require that 4 years and little scrap of parchment.

Can't really speak on the PCAT considering I've yet to take it.

 

[Passion4Sci]

Eddie, bear in mind that you're trading off horrendous working conditions (that rival the crap I endured in the military) for great work hours, better benefits, and overall a more "professional" atmosphere (e.g., no one asks me which aisle the TP is on.

 

[Carboxide]

I read somewhere (probably here) that for the 2011 application cycle, pharmcas will be reporting all the schools an applicant has applied to and if they were accepted.

See, I DON'T like that. I don't think schools need to know what PHARMACY schools you've applied to, etc - I think they should know what OTHER schools you're applied to. If I saw an application going:

"Applied to MWU COM, MWU COP" I would know that they were using pharmacy as a backup career. And I would not admit them accordingly.

 

[Basilone]

That's news to me.

According to this document, it looks like they already do.

Go to page 67 here:
http://www.aacp.org/resources/acade...nes/Documents/School Manual 2009-2010 rev.pdf

 

[Basilone]

Eddie, bear in mind that you're trading off horrendous working conditions (that rival the crap I endured in the military) for great work hours, better benefits, and overall a more "professional" atmosphere (e.g., no one asks me which aisle the TP is on.

Is retail pharmacy that bad? I work in a "closed door" pharmacy (we only deal with clients who have signed a contract with us) and it is no where near the experience I had in the military.

 

[Passion4Sci]

I can't quote with my iPhone, but that link states something to the effective of, "Participating colleges will not know the names of competing schools or whether you've been accepted or denied." In a way, I am OK with the current system. It seems much worse (and more Big Brothery) if PharmCAS will have unrestricted access to names of institutions applied this cycle and last, etc... that would be very blech for me.