New programs?

[DOrk]

Any word on new programs (DO or MD) starting up in '05 or '06? Anybody know if the new DO programs at Hamot (Erie, PA) or Samaritan (Watertown, NY) are a go for this year?
And lastly, can anybody tell me why the ACOEP website hasn't been updated in about a million years? Many new programs are not listed, and some defunct programs (i.e Des Peres) are still listed. Failure to update the website reflects poorly on the organization....I realize that I need to send this message directly to them, but I just feel the need to vent here first.

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[DrQuinn]

Originally posted by DOrk
Any word on new programs (DO or MD) starting up in '05 or '06? Anybody know if the new DO programs at Hamot (Erie, PA) or Samaritan (Watertown, NY) are a go for this year?
And lastly, can anybody tell me why the ACOEP website hasn't been updated in about a million years? Many new programs are not listed, and some defunct programs (i.e Des Peres) are still listed. Failure to update the website reflects poorly on the organization....I realize that I need to send this message directly to them, but I just feel the need to vent here first.

You're not alone. I remember as a student being initially interested in the ACOEP, but soon realized its a pretty small organization... without nearly the same following as ACEP (obviously besides the sheer # difference). But perhaps you can change that, since you sound like you're still in medical school. I'm sure the ACOEP wouldn't mind your help/input!

Q, DO

 

[DocWagner]

While I try my hardest to support the ACOEP, I honestly think it serves little purpose. There I said it. I try...I try...I try. I am an ACOEP member, but if I didn't have some underlying loyalty to Osteopathic Medicine , I wouldn't belong at all. Membership offers ZERO benefits...AAEM, SAEM, ACEP-EMRA is where the big boys play and get things done.
I feel for you guys trying to get info on the DO EM residencies, because it is like trying to find an easter egg...and sometimes it just aint worth it. Email ACOEP and let em have it.

 

[southerndoc]

Jackson Memorial Hospital/University of Miami School of Medicine is starting up a program. Not sure if they will be ready to take their first class in 2005 or not.

Here's the link: http://um-jmh.org/MedicalProf/Residency/emergency/emergencymed.html

 

[Apollyon]

Originally posted by Geek Medic
Jackson Memorial Hospital/University of Miami School of Medicine is starting up a program. Not sure if they will be ready to take their first class in 2005 or not.

Here's the link: http://um-jmh.org/MedicalProf/Residency/emergency/emergencymed.html

I was all fired up to apply for an attending job at JMH, and one of the attendings for the block I'm on now said that he was a med student there, and that the average stay in the ED is 36 hours. 90,000 adult visits per year is HEAVY.

 

[edinOH]

Originally posted by Apollyon
I was all fired up to apply for an attending job at JMH, and one of the attendings for the block I'm on now said that he was a med student there, and that the average stay in the ED is 36 hours. 90,000 adult visits per year is HEAVY.

I wonder if you can bill for both the ED visit and for the inpt management?

I figure you could see them in the ED, admit them on paper, round on them in the morning before you go home, and then round on them again when you come in the next day for your shift.

Just a thought.

 

[DrQuinn]

UM is giving FOUR WEEKS of vacation each year? Woah.

I wonder why they had trouble with their accredidation, though.

Q, DO

 

[Apollyon]

I got a calendar month last year as prelim-IM, and we get 4 weeks of vacation here.

It's the lifestyle, baby!

 

[Andy Kahn]

I heard that the military EM program in San Antonio was going to open a few civilian spots (like the one in Washington state). There is always talk of a new program at UTMB but I don't see that happening for awhile (they just hired their first 3 EM trained faculty this past year).

-ak

 

[hurt]

There is a new DO EM residency starting this July at Arrowhead Regional Medical Center (San Bernardino County Hospital) in Colton California. This hospital is about an hour east of Los Angeles. I believe they are starting with 4 PGY-2 positions. This hospital is a level 4 trauma center that is extremely busy and the pathology is extremely varied. They have a burn unit and 8 trauma bays. I just finished a rotation there and this is great place to train.

 

[EM Junkie]

The Chaiman of Emergency Medicine at UT-Houston (Dr. King) has said that it is his goal to increase their residency class from 10 to 18 in the next couple of years.

My understanding was they are going to add LBJ Hospital on the NE side of town (county hospital) to the rotation.

I would love to stay here for my residency!



PS- UT Houston is an MD program

 

[DocWagner]

The military EM program is not Washington State, but rather Wright State...increased to 5 military and 8 civilian spots per year, for the math challenged, 13.

 

[brewdo]

Originally posted by hurt
There is a new DO EM residency starting this July at Arrowhead Regional Medical Center (San Bernardino County Hospital) in Colton California. This hospital is about an hour east of Los Angeles. I believe they are starting with 4 PGY-2 positions. This hospital is a level 4 trauma center that is extremely busy and the pathology is extremely varied. They have a burn unit and 8 trauma bays. I just finished a rotation there and this is great place to train.

Do you mean level 1 or 2 trauma center?

 

[DOrk]

Thanks for your replies, everybody

PS there is such thing as a level 4 trauma center....I'm not sure what the qualifications/capabilities are for such a place. Anybody know?

PPS There is a combined military/civilian residency in Washington State (Madigan/UW).

 

[hurt]

ARMC is a level 1, it has a burn unit so I think that makes it level 1. My bad!

 

[EM Junkie]

There is such thing as a Level 4 Trauma Center (at least here in Texas), although I am not sure of the exact requirements for that designation. They are typically the very small, rural hospitals. Most suburban ED's are Level 3.

 

[Jeff698]

Originally posted by DOrk
PS there is such thing as a level 4 trauma center....I'm not sure what the qualifications/capabilities are for such a place. Anybody know?

Yes, but it isn't an ACS designation and not all states have it. Texas created the level 4 and made their own designation criteria. I couldn't tell you why they did it or much more about it but you could take a look at the criteria here: http://www.tdh.state.tx.us/hcqs/ems/esscritIV.pdf

There are currently 131 level IV centers in Texas, compared with 12 Level I, 9 Level IIs, and 36 level IIIs.

Take care,
Jeff
MS-III, UTMB

 

[floweree]

I think I have heard that TUCOM is also starting a DO program Las Vegas for 2005, not sure what site though.

 

[Chris_Topher]

I am pretty sure that Kingman, AZ is starting its first class this July (DO)

 

[emoraf]

I've heard rumors that the University of Utah is starting a program. Is there anyone out there who can confirm or deny that rumor?

 

[beriberi]

I have heard that rumor for the past three years. Some one affiliated with the school told me that they have been RRC approved but have not been able to find spots (they will need medicine or surgery to give up residents for funding for the ED program. not so popular). They haven't been able to get six spots so it is on indefinite hold...

this is third-hand, if it helps...

 

[The White Coat Investor]

Originally posted by emoraf
I've heard rumors that the University of Utah is starting a program. Is there anyone out there who can confirm or deny that rumor?

Rumor has been there for several years. Faculty is highly interested in starting it, and has been recruiting faculty toward that goal for several years. It was even approved by the administration for this year's applicant group. Unfortunately, it was not funded. It seems that its not a matter of if, but a matter of when. I doubt it will be ready for next year's applying class.

The program will initially be weak for several reasons:
1) New program syndrome (who wants to be the guinea pig, take a look at Duke's first match....had to scramble all 7 spots.)
2) US rarely used in ED. Serious battle with rads yet to be fought.
3) Trauma team does everything with traumas. Serious battle with surgery yet to be fought.
4) Most of the faculty has not spent time teaching PGY2 and PGY3 level EM residents, so there will be an adjustment period as they go from teaching off-service interns and medical students to teaching residents.

But it will eventually be a Denveresque type program. The primo location will draw great faculty and great residents and then it will be not only a great location, but also a great program. Hopefully they don't make the same mistake Denver did, and make it a four year program. (I can hear the flame war warming up already.)

 

[DrQuinn]

Originally posted by Desperado
Hopefully they don't make the same mistake Denver did, and make it a four year program. (I can hear the flame war warming up already.)

oh wait i'm at a 3 year program.

Q, DO

 

[Apollyon]

Originally posted by Desperado
1) New program syndrome (who wants to be the guinea pig, take a look at Duke's first match....had to scramble all 7 spots.)

Duke matched all 6 spots the first year. The second year was the "big head" and matched zero.

 

[southerndoc]

Originally posted by Desperado
1) New program syndrome (who wants to be the guinea pig, take a look at Duke's first match....had to scramble all 7 spots.)

FYI, Duke had to scramble for its second class, not it's first match.

Many new programs have been founded without having to scramble.

 

[DrQuinn]

Originally posted by Geek Medic
FYI, Duke had to scramble for its second class, not it's first match.

Many new programs have been founded without having to scramble.

Correct. We didn't scramble last year or this year.

Q, DO

 

[Pikevillemedstudent]

Rumor has it that Pikeville Methodist Hospital(PMH)in Pikeville KY is opening a DO EM program strating in 2005. PMH is around 300 beds and is attempting level I certification now. It is curently level II. Also the current AOA president, Beehler, is rumored to be the new program director. They are also going to have a FP/EM residency. Most of this came from the DME so I think it is reliable. Of course, it will be affliated with Pikeville College School of Osteopathic Medicine (PCSOM). To prepare for this, the hospital is currently spending a ton of money renovating the ER. The hospital also recently got a medflight helicopter.

 

[Koschei]

Originally posted by Desperado

But it will eventually be a Denveresque type program. The primo location will draw great faculty and great residents and then it will be not only a great location, but also a great program. Hopefully they don't make the same mistake Denver did, and make it a four year program. (I can hear the flame war warming up already.)

I'm probably gonna be laughed at again for my lack of knowledge but the program at my school is 3 years and the attendings here all mentioned a lot of 4-year programs that are considered the best in the country. Aren't Cincinnati, Denver, Highland, Jacobi, Bellevue, USC and Cook County all four years? Would it really be a mistake for Utah to become 4 years?

Not trying to flame or nothin

 

[roja]

UTHSCSA/BAMC/WH (aka UT- San Antonio for the non-texans) is set to have 2 civilian spots.

I rotated at the BAMC location and fell so in love with thier program that I almost joined theh military to go there. The residents are phenomenally competitive as it is one of 3 active duty EM residencies. The staff is amazing. The services are phenomenal. And the UH (university hospital where you do public hospital sees >120,000 a year.) is really good as well.


Any one interested feel free to email me.


The new EM U/S director that is starting at UT-Houston also happens to kick tail.

 

[DrQuinn]

Originally posted by roja
UTHSCSA/BAMC/WH (aka UT- San Antonio for the non-texans) is set to have 2 civilian spots.

I rotated at the BAMC location and fell so in love with thier program that I almost joined theh military to go there. The residents are phenomenally competitive as it is one of 3 active duty EM residencies. The staff is amazing. The services are phenomenal. And the UH (university hospital where you do public hospital sees >120,000 a year.) is really good as well.


Any one interested feel free to email me.


The new EM U/S director that is starting at UT-Houston also happens to kick tail.

My program director here at USF was the PD at the UT - San Antonio program. The same years the residents at UT-SA were the top scorers on the EM in-service.


Q, DO

 

[Andy Kahn]

Originally posted by roja
UTHSCSA/BAMC/WH (aka UT- San Antonio for the non-texans) is set to have 2 civilian spots.

I rotated at the BAMC location and fell so in love with thier program that I almost joined theh military to go there. The residents are phenomenally competitive as it is one of 3 active duty EM residencies. The staff is amazing. The services are phenomenal. And the UH (university hospital where you do public hospital sees >120,000 a year.) is really good as well.


Any one interested feel free to email me.


The new EM U/S director that is starting at UT-Houston also happens to kick tail.

I went to the cadaver lab for UT Southwestern residents this past January and one of the faculty trained at one the military EM residencies in Texas (can't remember if it was San Antonio or Darnall@Ft. Hood). She seemed to know a lot about the various procedures and mentioned that she did lots of thoracotomies on sheep. She said that they did more since they were a military program. Sounds pretty cool. That should be great for the civilians that enter in the future.

 

[The White Coat Investor]

Originally posted by Koschei
Would it really be a mistake for Utah to become 4 years?

Yes. The advantage the above mentioned programs have is that they are established, have great reputations, and are generally located in primo locations (with several notable exceptions.) People apply to them because they don't mind going to a 4 year program if it is really good. You'll notice that essentially none of the programs started in the last few years (correct me if I'm wrong) are 4 year programs. Given the choice, very few people will pick a 4 year program. They go to 4 year programs because of several reasons:
1) Location
2) They want to go to a good program, and don't match at a good 3 year program
3) They're deluded by an influential person into thinking they want to do a 4 year program. Then, to justify their bad decision, they continue to delude others.

So few people are willing to go to brand-new programs (present moderators excused) that adding the fact that it is a 4 year program would really cut down on your attractive applicant pool.

I suppose Utah could try to be a 4 year program, but it would take more years for it to become a good program, and it would be more difficult to get the program started (additional funding problems.)

The residents are phenomenally competitive

Boy, that's what I want out of my classmates. The more cutthroat the residency, the better.

FYI, Duke had to scramble for its second class, not it's first match.

Oops, my bad.

 

[SewerRat]

Different strokes for different folks dude.

We all heard this before: 3 year programs are more condensed and efficient, 4 year programs may be better for academics, 3 years + fellowship vs 4 years, 4 years may have better clinical blah blah blah, yadda yadda yadda.

Look, when I comes down to it there are great 4 year and great 3 year programs. I actually ranked an equal number of 4 and 3 years at the top of my list (four years tended to be higher). They were all good programs and after looking at what they offered, the difference between 3 vs 4 was minimal compared to overall quality of the programs, i.e. how well established, how much research, extensive alumni networks, current faculty, clinical experience, and general name portability. People generally dont go to 3 year programs because they couldnt match 4 year ones and vice versa. If you are going to rule out Cinci, Denver, Highland, Bellevue etc because of an extra year, then there are still a good number of "top" programs to chose from that are three years. But most people I know generally would hesitate to completely ignore some of the best programs in the nation because of the 4 year format.

By the way, people you talk to will obviously be biased based on the where they are training. I'm going to a four year program next year and I don't think that the experience at this place can be squeezed into 3 years.

 

[DrQuinn]

Originally posted by Desperado
3) They're deluded by an influential person into thinking they want to do a 4 year program. Then, to justify their bad decision, they continue to delude others.

So few people are willing to go to brand-new programs (present moderators excused) that adding the fact that it is a 4 year program would really cut down on your attractive applicant pool.

Tee-hee to the first comment. I almost snorted my mountain dew.

And I chose Tampa because it is the Adult Entertainment Capital of the US!

Q, DO

 

[roja]

The BAMC program has an animal lab every month where they do procedures. Thier confrences are 100 per cent protected. They have 100 per cent first time board pass rate.

They also, without fail, have a morning report that is done in oral board format. (it was amazing) EVERY DAY!

They also work 8 hour shifts. They rotate at BAMC, Wilford Hall and University Hospital. *sigh* I wish it had been up and runnign when I was applying...

 

[San_Juan_Sun]

Originally posted by Desperado

So few people are willing to go to brand-new programs (present moderators excused) that adding the fact that it is a 4 year program would really cut down on your attractive applicant pool.

I suppose Utah could try to be a 4 year program, but it would take more years for it to become a good program,

In regards to Utah specifically, one thing should be borne in mind. Many LDS (Mormon) students would like to do an EM residency at Utah, in order to be close to family (pretty important to many LDS). I'm sure they would fill.

On the other hand, everything else you said makes sense to this MS-1 (which probably doesn't mean very much. ).

 

[southerndoc]

Originally posted by QuinnNSU
And I chose Tampa because it is the Adult Entertainment Capital of the US!

I vote all of us SDN'ers have a field trip to Tampa!

 

[Freeeedom!]

MONS VENUS!!!!




PS: 3 years plus fellowship is a far better idea than 4 year res.

 

[DrQuinn]

Originally posted by Freeeedom!
MONS VENUS!!!!




PS: 3 years plus fellowship is a far better idea than 4 year res.

I think Thursdays is couples night. We can tag along Roja, edinOH , and Scrubbs, pretend they're our significant others, and get in with no cover! That'll save us extra money for a lap dance.

Q, DO

 

[Freeeedom!]

I am so confused because I have no idea who is male or female...so how do the couples work out?

"Not that there's anything wrong with that"
-seinfeld

 

[DrQuinn]

Originally posted by Freeeedom!
I am so confused because I have no idea who is male or female...so how do the couples work out?

"Not that there's anything wrong with that"
-seinfeld

I'm not sure either but to play it safe I'm picking Roja! You can take DocWagner, or if you're feeling academic, ERMudPhud.

Q, DO

 

[edinOH]

Originally posted by QuinnNSU
I'm not sure either but to play it safe I'm picking Roja! You can take DocWagner, or if you're feeling academic, ERMudPhud.

Q, DO

Quinn,

Don't you swing both ways?

That's what MikeCWRU told me. He is the type of guy who would know.

 

[SewerRat]

Damn, I should of interviewed at Tampa if just to party. Sounds like some good ol fashioned dirty fun.

 

[DrQuinn]

Originally posted by edinOH
Quinn,

Don't you swing both ways?

That's what MikeCWRU told me. He is the type of guy who would know.

I stopped that when I went to MikeCWRU's place and I heard "dueling banjos" in the background. In fact, if you look at his avatar, I think he was playing that song live.

Q, DO

 

[UHSDOMBA]

Hey peeps,
So any more news about the new DO ER program at Arrowhead Regional Med Center in Colton, Cali? I am trying to set up a rotation there but apparently, my med school has to have an affiliation agreement with the med center? Any advice? If the affiliation is not there, no elective ER rotation?



C

 

[Aloha Kid]

I talked to the program director on the phone. He basically told me if you are interested, do a fourth year rotation at the place. The catcher is that they will likely select out of the intern pool, so an internship at the hospital will be a good idea. He said as far as he's concerned he wants people who are easy to work with. Grades etc. are not a top priority.

I rotated at Arrowhead before. Every single intern I came across did a lot of whinning and complaining. I seriously did not hear many good things about Arrowhead. It would be a really difficult place to do an internship.

The director also commented a bit about the teaching. He said there are some attendings who are eager to teach and some who don't like to teach as much.

I anticipate this program will probably be have a lot of problems in the beginning getting started. The advantage is that it is a level one trauma center. I think ER residents from Loma Linda also rotate through as well. The pathology will definitely be there considering it is county.
Any news about the Do ER residency program opening up in Nevada?

 

[bryanboling5]

Anyone at a new or relatively new program find a lot of downside? I would think that surgery wouldn't want EM to have a big role in trauma because of the "turf battle" syndrome. Can anyone comment on problems like this at residencies that have been up and running for 4 years or less?

 

[DrQuinn]

Anyone at a new or relatively new program find a lot of downside? I would think that surgery wouldn't want EM to have a big role in trauma because of the "turf battle" syndrome. Can anyone comment on problems like this at residencies that have been up and running for 4 years or less?

I belive I am the perfect man (or woman) to answer your question. I am in teh charter class of the USF EM residency program at Tampa General Hospital.

Downsides? No upper level residents here in the ED. My uppers are my attendings... which is mostly good. I wouldn't know what its like to ask a PGY-3 their opinion on a certain procedure or bounce an idea off of them... but on the other hand I get to ask attendings the question and get their (hopefully all-knowing) answer.

Honestly, that's probably the only major/minor downside to being at a enw program. My program had such a smooth year there were no burps along the way I can think of! I've had MORE than enough procedures. Surgery has been so inviting... they love having us (less work for them) and they could care less if our roles in trauma overtook theirs. In fact, starting next month, we will be in charge of the airway and 50% of the traumas, third year apparently we will be in complete responsibility of the trauams (with a senior surgery resident down in all traumas).

The opportunities that arise from being at the first year of a program are awesome, adn I think I've been able to do a lot more since there are no senior residents. My first day as an intern in the ED I ran two medical codes. How's that for starting up?!

Q, DO

 

[joaquin13]

I am an officer with the student chapter of the national ACOEP. I noticed your post & I agree with your frustration on some level. The student chapter of the ACOEP started 4 years ago. We are rapidly increasing and just raised over $4000 for scholarships to local EM chapters to send students to AOA conventions. The website has not been updated b/c the ACOEP was having major issues with the company that did the website development & are currently working aggressively toward straightening out the issue. The student chapter now maintains contact with all local EM chapters at DO schools through email & publishes a biannual newsletter with summaries from all the local chapters. We also have several resources available to students. The intern/resident chapter has been defunct over past couple of years. The ACOEP is much smaller than ACEP, but they are all very willing to help out in any way possible. Also, for updated AOA residencies, check out: www.do-online.org.

 

[debvz]

Any word on new programs (DO or MD) starting up in '05 or '06? Anybody know if the new DO programs at Hamot (Erie, PA) or Samaritan (Watertown, NY) are a go for this year?
And lastly, can anybody tell me why the ACOEP website hasn't been updated in about a million years? Many new programs are not listed, and some defunct programs (i.e Des Peres) are still listed. Failure to update the website reflects poorly on the organization....I realize that I need to send this message directly to them, but I just feel the need to vent here first.

LSU Shreveport's EM program is set to begin July 2004. MD program with Level 1 trauma center.