New US News rankings

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toughcookies

toughcookies

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So is anyone else looking forward to seeing the new rankings in a few weeks? Or am i the only one who would admit that I actually look at them?
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Honestly, I had no idea that a new edition was coming out. You said it will be in a few weeks, so exactly when should I expect it to see it at my local B&N or Borders bookstore? Does US News and World Report always come out with a new edition for rankings at this time of the year, every year? I am just wondering how you know so.
 
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pride4jc727 said:
Honestly, I had no idea that a new edition was coming out. You said it will be in a few weeks, so exactly when should I expect it to see it at my local B&N or Borders bookstore? Does US News and World Report always come out with a new edition for rankings at this time of the year, every year? I am just wondering how you know so.
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I have an online subscription (it was pretty useful for figuring out where to apply). I got an email saying it would expire on March 25 as a new edition is being rolled out. I assume it will be on newsstands around the same time.
 
I'll admit it, I'm curious. Oddly enough, I have a subscription and they haven't sent me an e-mail yet.
 
*crosses fingers for Stewart University New Scotland International School Of Medicine* It's the only school I got accepted to:(. I'm hoping the rankings help my residency match into primary care shamanery.
 
SketchLazy said:
*crosses fingers for Stewart University New Scotland International School Of Medicine* It's the only school I got accepted to:(. I'm hoping the rankings help my residency match into primary care shamanery.
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haha, yeah i'm kinda hoping that the schools that accepted me move up and those that rejected me move down.
 
most schools have probably already completed their annual report which would state how much research grants they received. since this is how schools are ranked by us news, the data is already out there. can you call up a school and ask for their annual report? i have no idea. but i came across this info for the med center where i work and in it they actually state their new rank.
 
Are the rankings not already out? I know the new edition of the book hasn't hit stores yet, but if you search for medical school rankings on google, you can find the research and primary care rankings for 2008, and they are different from what I have in my book from last year's US News Rankings.

Maybe I'm wrong, though.
 
SketchLazy said:
*crosses fingers for Stewart University New Scotland International School Of Medicine* It's the only school I got accepted to:(. I'm hoping the rankings help my residency match into primary care shamanery.
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you should be happy, dude! I was waitlisted there :(
 
Bcblazer said:
Are the rankings not already out? I know the new edition of the book hasn't hit stores yet, but if you search for medical school rankings on google, you can find the research and primary care rankings for 2008, and they are different from what I have in my book from last year's US News Rankings.

Maybe I'm wrong, though.
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The new ones coming out will be 2009 (I don't know why they call it 2009, since they clearly update it using 2007-2008 info). If you look at the online rankings there's an ad telling you to preorder for the 2009 edition, which will be available on March 29th.
 
Doublecortin said:
you should be happy, dude! I was waitlisted there :(
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Lies. Your signature says you got accepted to the neurosurgery program! Not as highly ranked as the shamanery program, but still.
 
prettymonkey said:
most schools have probably already completed their annual report which would state how much research grants they received. since this is how schools are ranked by us news, the data is already out there. can you call up a school and ask for their annual report? i have no idea. but i came across this info for the med center where i work and in it they actually state their new rank.
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I knew research rankings used grants, but how do they rank primary care universities?
 
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Unless you want to do family practice or do a m.d./ph.d. joint program, the rankings are in fact -------USELESS! If you want to go into cardiology, would you pay attention to the U.S. News rankings of top laws schools to make a decision?

A couple years back, the top neurosurgery applicant was from Texas Tech. Yeah, Texas Tech. He interviewed everywhere and was told by all his top choices that they would practically beg for him to come there. He published over 50 papers during 4 years of med school......from Texas Tech (on 0 rankings for FP or research). He shoveled out clinical papers like crazy!

Opportunities are everywhere in med school. Go where you are happiest. You can get in anywhere from anywhere. When they start ranking things like....what students are happiest, how many days off are given to students, who's board scores are highest, how much free food is given to students, etc., then I will pay attention.
 
I think the new ones are already out, at least online...
 
Rankings are really stupid. You should go to a school because of their program, location and because you think you will fit in. For instance, I would never go to the University of Washington no matter how high they get ranked. I hate Seattle.
 
LovelyMD said:
In lieu of research activity, the primary care ranking uses the percentage of graduates that go into family practice, pediatrics and internal medicine.
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Which is not meaningful ranking data because it doesn't suggest folks are better at primary care coming from those places, just that they are going into it, whether intentionally or by default. Might to some extent really be a ranking of schools that don't get as many folks into the specialties. Not that the research ranking is particularly accurate, but at least it's fair to say that the schools that generate the most grant money are perceived as more prestigious.
 
Law2Doc said:
Which is not meaningful ranking data because it doesn't suggest folks are better at primary care coming from those places, just that they are going into it, whether intentionally or by default. Might to some extent really be a ranking of schools that don't get as many folks into the specialties. Not that the research ranking is particularly accurate, but at least it's fair to say that the schools that generate the most grant money are perceived as more prestigious.
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I definitely agree.
 
the rankings are tailored to a general system that does not apply to each individual students interests, needs, location, tuition.. etc etc etc.

Maybe one school is better at research than another.. that does not mean that school is better for YOU. This is why I think rankings are a bunch of crap.
 
i think us news rankings are great - without them, sdn would lose 50% of its post volume from march-may, as people quibble about whether they should go to the "higher ranked" school. what's next, abolish the secondary photo?
 
Rankings and the medical school you attend aren't completely useless. Residencies do take into account the level of NIH funding/Ranking, and the prestige of your institution when considering applicants. That being said, the student is still in control, for example, your step scores, involvement in research, etc. I think that you have to take the rankings with a grain of salt, but they do carry some weight.
 
etf said:
i think us news rankings are great - without them, sdn would lose 50% of its post volume from march-may, as people quibble about whether they should go to the "higher ranked" school. what's next, abolish the secondary photo?
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LOL
 
Does anyone know why US News and World Report only show the Top 50 rankings for research and primary care schools? Where can I find the rankings of #51 and beyond? I know not everyone goes to the top 50 schools.
 
pride4jc727 said:
Does anyone know why US News and World Report only show the Top 50 rankings for research and primary care schools? Where can I find the rankings of #51 and beyond? I know not everyone goes to the top 50 schools.
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:confused:

Why would you care?
 
I'm glad you agree. He is one my favorite authors. Herman Hesse is another. :)
 
Drogba said:
:confused:

Why would you care?
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Apparently, you do not appreciate my curiosity. The last time I checked, the majority of medical students do not attend the top 50 nationally ranked medical schools in America each year. So, I thought it would be helpful for those who tried to apply, but were unsuccessful to know exactly what the rankings of the schools they are going to. This is something not to dissuade people but to give them more information about the schools. I do not appreciate texting at me in such a way that I have three eyes on my head.
 
pride4jc727 said:
Apparently, you do not appreciate my curiosity. The last time I checked, the majority of medical students do not attend the top 50 nationally ranked medical schools in America each year. So, I thought it would be helpful for those who tried to apply, but were unsuccessful to know exactly what the rankings of the schools they are going to. This is something not to dissuade people but to give them more information about the schools. I do not appreciate texting at me in such a way that I have three eyes on my head.
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US News does rank about the first 70 schools, but you have to have a membership (and search for schools in which you are interested by name) in order to see those rankings.

However, I think it is a testament to the flimsiness of the rankings that they do not make a complete list available. The rankings rely heavily on a relatively few objective numerical data (and what's worse, SUBJECTIVE numerical data).

I'm not trashing the idea of better and worse medical schools. The rankings are an interesting catalog of what can generally be accepted as the "top" medical schools, and it is also interesting to see how residency directors rate various schools. But certainly, they should be viewed as a reference tool more than some sort of absolute hierarchy or measure of a student's worth :)

EDIT: if anyone wants any particular information about a school, feel free to PM me and I will cut and paste from my premium membership info
 
pride4jc727 said:
Apparently, you do not appreciate my curiosity. The last time I checked, the majority of medical students do not attend the top 50 nationally ranked medical schools in America each year. So, I thought it would be helpful for those who tried to apply, but were unsuccessful to know exactly what the rankings of the schools they are going to. This is something not to dissuade people but to give them more information about the schools. I do not appreciate texting at me in such a way that I have three eyes on my head.
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If the rankings are near meaningless for the top schools they are doubly meaningless for anything past 50. That's what I was getting at. Those are question marks above the smiley's head btw.
 
Honestly, you could replace the entire US News ranking system with just ranking the schools by average step I score, and it would probably be a better indicator.
 
I would like to suggest that there is value in rankings of this sort, but not because they reflect anything about the schools themselves. (i.e. I agree replacing them with step 1 scores is equally valid. what I'll try to say here is that only what matters is that the list is proclamated by an authority.)

This is true because, even if the rankings are arbitrary, given there is imperfect information regarding which schools is best for each person, people trying to choose which school to attend do use the rankings to inform their decision. Now, if it is true that your education is impacted by who your classmates are, then picking a higher ranked school will improve the quality of your medical education.

Yes, I know this is very rough and not a perfect picture of what is going on. But, I think it is almost necessary that, even if rankings are meaningless and self-perpetuating, they still have predictive value by this effect.

(Basically, you should pick a higher ranked school because that is what other people are going to do. And don't think you can get away from people who care about rankings by choosing a lower ranked school - but that is an explanation I'll leave for the reader. And, to be clear, I am making an assumption that my education will be impacted by my peers, which you may disagree with.)
 
lord_jeebus said:
Huge "if."

Maybe at a PBL school. Even then, just a little.
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Right. I'm not sure whether that is true or not. I definitely think it is true for undergraduate education. Not having attended medical school yet, I can't say much except I was suspecting it would be true.

And not just because of interaction with your peers, either. Say there is some carry-over in the ranking from year to year. Then, picking a highly ranked school means that the class above you would tend to be higher quality, which may grease the wheels to allow your entrance into a residency program. I'm sure there are other positive externalities of having high quality peers. (Right? Or maybe not? I really am curious to know.)
 
MedRower said:
Right. I'm not sure whether that is true or not. I definitely think it is true for undergraduate education. Not having attended medical school yet, I can't say much except I was suspecting it would be true.

And not just because of interaction with your peers, either. Say there is some carry-over in the ranking from year to year. Then, picking a highly ranked school means that the class above you would tend to be higher quality, which may grease the wheels to allow your entrance into a residency program. I'm sure there are other positive externalities of having high quality peers. (Right? Or maybe not? I really am curious to know.)
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I have found great variability among my classmates ("top 20 school"). There are some that are amazingly smart. There are some that make me frightened that they will be someone's doctor some day. It's hard to judge the quality of a class as a whole. I don't think it matters though because very little of my learning (maybe 1%) comes from my peers.

High quality people in previous classes might help a very tiny bit in the residency application process. High quality attendings with connections help a hundred times more.
 
lord_jeebus said:
I have found great variability among my classmates ("top 20 school"). There are some that are amazingly smart. There are some that make me frightened that they will be someone's doctor some day. It's hard to judge the quality of a class as a whole. I don't think it matters though because very little of my learning (maybe 1%) comes from my peers.

High quality people in previous classes might help a very tiny bit in the residency application process. High quality attendings with connections help a hundred times more.
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Fair enough. Guess it's back to square one: quality of cafeteria.
 
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