No way to stand out

[davincis_playgr]

---

Members do not see this ad.

Wow, am I impressed with some of the posters here! Some have years of chairside assistant experience, some have done research, some have other really cool experiences behind them.

I, on the other hand, am very vanilla. I've been working in regular ole' office jobs ever since I got my B.A. in business in 1995. I'm married and work 40hrs/week, plus have an hour drive back and forth to work. I'm taking my science prereq's at the local CC. (Would prefer to take them at the nearby 4-year, but CC schedules are much more flexible.) And each weeknight that I'm not in class, I'm locked away in my den studying until after 11:00. Sundays are all studying until 10:00 or 11:00. So the only day I can really pay attention to my wife is Saturday.

Keep in mind, I'M NOT COMPLAINING!!!! I'm SO into studying for classed and eventually the DAT. (I thanked my wife all night when she bought me the Kaplan prep book out of the blue.) But my problem is that I don't feel like there are enough hours in the week for me to do something cool like volunteering or doing research assistance to help my case when I'm trying to get accepted somewhere.

The only things I feel like I have on my side are that I'm an older, married student. (Counts toward maturity and stability.) And, that the fact I've given up practically my whole life to get into dental school. I figure anyone who's willing to put in 60-80 hours weekly to stay afloat has got to be fairly dedicated to doing well in dental school.

Anyone have any opinions? Perhaps some of you are in the same situation.

Have a great weekend!

 

[futureD]

Please do NOT despair. Ad com likes people like you. You have much life experience and so you have much to give to the student body. Unlike many pre-dents who are fresh out of college and have little clue about WHY they want to pursue dentistry, you know that dentistry is for you. That's why you are willing to "give up" your life to do this.

Make sure that you show your passion and commitment to dentistry in full details in your personal statement. Remember, admisions is not all about DATs and GPAs.

I truly respect people like you. I, too, have been out of college for awhile, and I know how difficult it is to reclaim your studying abilities and the tremendous amount of changes you have to adapt to.

Keep up the hard work. Take everyone's advice with a grain of salt. They are opinions, something to think about while you wait, but don't let them discourage you. Believe in yourself...Trust in yourself that you'll get in. Otherwise, you have serious "other" issues to think about.

 

[critterbug]

nope

I'd say you are dead on accurate. SDN averages are not representative of the total applicant pool.

To the OP,

Is there any way you could cut back on your work hours and take out loans to supplement your income? This would provide you with more time to concentrate on getting into dental school, which is a stressful process in its own right without the extra stress of working 40 hours a week and having a family.

 

[davincis_playgr]

It would be really cool if I could cut back on hours, but the company I work for won't allow it. (Although they're really awesome otherwise!) Good idea though!

 

[ItsGavinC]

I'm helping with interviews at Arizona this year, so let me be frank about some of the things I've seen. No flames please, I'm just telling it like it is.

1) EVERYBODY gives the same answers to interview questions. I'm honestly of the opinion that the only thing that weeds people out in this aspect is HOW they give the answer. As in, their actual delivery.

2) I've seen the addmissions files for every applicant I've been involved with. The GPAs have all been in the 3.3-3.8 range. No exceptions here.

3) The academic DAT scores have all been a 19 or better. The exception was one fellow who had a 17, but he also had a 3.7 GPA

4) Everybody has shadowed. Everybody has done research.

5) Everybody wants to create beautiful smiles for kids in 3rd world countries. When asked "Why do you want to be a dentist?", I honestly believe that if somebody said "To make cash", the adcom would probably admit them on the spot. At least they have the balls to say what 35% of us our thinking.

To sum: I have NOT seen files on every applicant who walks through the doors. I have NOT interviewed every applicant. I haven't even said hello to every applicant. Arizona has only had several interview seesions thus far. However, what I've written above is true for the applicants I have been involved with. The interviews are assigned randomly, which means I know nothing about the applicant prior to looking at their file in the morning.

Just my two cents. Perhaps things will change as we get further down the road in the interview game. Maybe not.

What am I saying: Am I saying you should make an ass out of yourselves in the interviews? Nope, not at all. I AM saying that you should be yourself, and ditch the grinny demeanor if that isn't truly who you are. If money IS your motivator for dentistry, then say that. Furthermore, preface the comment by letting your interviewers know that you are believe honesty is the best policy in all that you do.

The other point: setting yourself apart from the other candidates seems darn near impossible to me. Unless you've started your own clinic in Russia, you're pretty much going to be a run of the mill applicant. Does that mean you won't succeed, nope, not at all. I'm sure you'll find LOTS of success. It just means you shouldn't stress about it. Enjoy the interview process, and enjoy seeing all that the schools have to offer.

It really is a wonderful time.

 

[Bickle]

Originally posted by ItsGavinC
I honestly believe that if somebody said "To make cash", the adcom would probably admit them on the spot. At least they have the balls to say what 35% of us our thinking.

Gavin,

I'm curious to know if that is what you said during your interviews? In my opinion, there is NO WAY any admissions committee will respect this answer. If I was a member of an admissions committee, I'd rather hear the same old boring, but ethically correct response, instead of hearing about an applicants desire to purchase his/her own yacht by the time they're 35.

 

[critterbug]

Dentaldream, I think Gavin was just using an extreme hypothetical situation to prove his point. Obviously, making money is on everyones mind, but there are better words to phrase it than "I wanna make cash!"

I don't think there is anything wrong with admitting that dentistry attracted you because it offers job security and a comfortable income, as long as it isn't you *only* reason for pursuing dentistry.

I have said this time and again on these forums that autonomy is one of the main reasons I am drawn to this profession. I plan to be honest in my interview and mention this as *one* of the reasons. I don't think there is anything wrong with that. Heck, even one of the dentists I shadowed admitted this. The first thing he told me was that the great thing about dentistry is that you can be your own boss.

But obviously, this isn't the sole reason I am choosing this field, just one of the many great attributes of being a dentist.

 

[Barry20]

Gavin,

If I get an interview at Arizona, I hope you don't sit in on the interview. 😛 I will be looking at Gavin after every response to see him roll his eyes🙄 . Just kidding my friend. Great insight and I think you are exactly right.

 

[Bickle]

Critterbug,

The interview provides the applicant a very small window of opportunity to prove themselves and make a good impression. I agree there is nothing wrong with going into dent because its a good business. But if you tell the adcom all of your "noble" reasons to go into dentistry (ie helping people, provide an valuable service to the community) and then throw in "oh yeah, I want to be rich too", which reason do you think they will remember? Personally, I doubt they will remember that monetary reason and look fondly upon it, but hey, thats just my opinion.

Its like that episode of Fresh Prince of Bel Air where Will walks into an interivew and acts all ghetto and gets accepted. Does that really work in real life?? I doubt it. 😀

 

[davincis_playgr]

Couple things. I don't think it ever wood, but if the money question came up in my interview, I'd have a good reason to say it's important. Since my wife's an insulin-dependent diabetic, it would really be awesome if someday I could afford to pay for a pancreas transplant for her. I don't know all the in's and out's, but the way I understand it is that if the transplant is successful, you're basically not diabetic anymore. But, that may be a long shot.

As far as differentiating yourself. IF you have the means, there are a handful of dental programs that allow US residents to help dentists for a week or longer in underdeveloped countries. I actually thought about doing this. The downside? You have to pay your way--usually airfare, lodging, and all. Can't afford that. But when my boss's son was premed, he did some volunteering like that in Brazil or somewhere. At least one interviewer told him on the spot that he was accepted. (Whether the school official was supposed to do that or not.) Something to think about, anyway.

 

[davincis_playgr]

Couple things. I don't think it ever wood, but if the money question came up in my interview, I'd have a good reason to say it's important. Since my wife's an insulin-dependent diabetic, it would really be awesome if someday I could afford to pay for a pancreas transplant for her. I don't know all the in's and out's, but the way I understand it is that if the transplant is successful, you're basically not diabetic anymore. But, that may be a long shot.

As far as differentiating yourself. IF you have the means, there are a handful of dental programs that allow US residents to help dentists for a week or longer in underdeveloped countries. I actually thought about doing this. The downside? You have to pay your way--usually airfare, lodging, and all. Can't afford that. But when my boss's son was premed, he did some volunteering like that in Brazil or somewhere. At least one interviewer told him on the spot that he was accepted. (Whether the school official was supposed to do that or not.) Something to think about, anyway.

 

[zimaad]

well, I'm no expert on getting into dental school as I'm trying to get in now also, but I think that in the scenario that davincis_plygrnd gave there were numerous things that DO make him stand out as being able to manage time, multiple tasks, keep a level head through drastic life changes, etc. I was just out of school a few years before going back to schoo full time for dental prereq's, so I know even after a few years it can be challenging. I only work half-time too! Anways, best of luck. One bit of advice, you mention "eventually" taking the DAT's. With all your work and classes, make sure you find a way dedicate ample time to prepare for it. It's not rocket science, but it sure is a wide range of subject areas and can make for a stressful time.

Best of luck!!

 

[critterbug]

Originally posted by Dentaldream
Critterbug,

The interview provides the applicant a very small window of opportunity to prove themselves and make a good impression. I agree there is nothing wrong with going into dent because its a good business. But if you tell the adcom all of your "noble" reasons to go into dentistry (ie helping people, provide an valuable service to the community) and then throw in "oh yeah, I want to be rich too", which reason do you think they will remember? Personally, I doubt they will remember that monetary reason and look fondly upon it, but hey, thats just my opinion.

Its like that episode of Fresh Prince of Bel Air where Will walks into an interivew and acts all ghetto and gets accepted. Does that really work in real life?? I doubt it. 😀

Good point.

Still, there is nothing wrong with being honest. And there is a big difference between going into a dentistry for a comfortable lifestyle, autonomy, and job security and going into a dentistry because you "wanna get rich". Anyone with this attitude does not need to be working for the public, as greed is not a good trait to have when you are a healthcare provider. I admit, if anyone said this, they are taking a huge risk. However, a comfortable lifestyle for me is probably different than some. I grew up poor and blue collar. I am truly not motivated by "fancy things". But I am motivated by being happy with what I do and providing for my family and having a stable job. EVERYONE has this in common, I don't care what anyone says. And surely adcoms respect honesty.

 

[critterbug]

Here are some of the reasons why the ADA suggest a career in dentistry. This is straight off the ADA website. NOTICE that they mention earning potential/demand, balanced lifestyle, and self employment.


************************************


Dentistry ? A Unique Opportunity

Service To Others: Dentists help people maintain and improve their oral health, quality of life and appearance. Dentists receive a great deal of personal satisfaction by providing an essential community health service, by educating future dentists and by doing valuable research. Dentists treat everyone-the healthy, the ill, the young, the elderly, the disadvantaged and those with special needs.


Balanced Lifestyle: Dentistry is an appealing career because it offers the flexibility to balance a professional life and personal goals.


Self-employment: Dentistry affords the opportunity to be one's own boss and own a dental practice. As independent entrepreneurs, dentists set and maintain their own regular hours.


Earning Potential/Demand: A dentist's average income is in the highest 5% of U.S. family income, according to the U.S. Census Bureau. The demand for dental care is projected to grow. As baby boomers age, they will continue to need preventive services and many baby boomers will require maintenance on existing dental work. Large numbers of dentists are expected to retire in the next 20 years, creating a need for new dentists.


Status and Prestige: Dentists are socially conscious, talented, civic-minded professionals who work with community leaders and other health professionals to promote oral health care. Dentistry has a distinguished history of leadership in improving world health.


Creativity: As artists, dentists combine keen visual memory, excellent judgment of space and shape and a high degree of manual dexterity in the delivery of patient services. Computer applications complement scientific knowledge and technical skills.


Variety: Dentistry is changing rapidly, creating many opportunities and challenges. Dentists treat a diverse group of patients in a variety of settings using a variety of techniques and procedures.


Detection of Diseases: Dentists are often the first health care providers to recognize and identify a number of illnesses- including cancer and cardiovascular problems. Research suggests an increasing number of links between oral diseases and other health concerns.


Diagnosis and Treatment: Dentists diagnose and treat conditions affecting the teeth, tongue, gums, lips and jaws. Exciting technologies, such as digital radiography and laser systems, along with enhanced new materials and techniques, can be used to correct dental problems.


Surgical Restoration: Dentists perform trauma surgery, place implants, graft tissue to repair, restore and maintain the teeth, gums, and oral structures that have been lost or damaged by accidents or disease.


Cosmetic Improvement: Dentists improve their patient's appearance by using a wide variety of modern dental materials and equipment to help patients feel better about their smiles.


Prevention/Education: Dentists educate patients and the general public on how to maintain oral health and prevent disease. Dental professionals play a leadership role in implementing community-based preventive programs, such as community water fluoridation, sealant programs or oral cancer screening.


Research: Dentists are involved as scientists to further the knowledge of oral diseases, treatment techniques and materials used to correct dental problems.

 

[davincis_playgr]

Thank you, everyone, for all your great contributions!

 

[critterbug]

Originally posted by Barry20
Gavin,

If I get an interview at Arizona, I hope you don't sit in on the interview. 😛 I will be looking at Gavin after every response to see him roll his eyes🙄 . Just kidding my friend. Great insight and I think you are exactly right.

HAHA

That would be funny. Gavin sitting slightly behind the other interviewers making funny faces at you. And then, when the other interviewers turn their head to look at him, he goes back to looking intrigued and rubbing his chin while writing comments about you on his little sheet of paper.

 

[ItsGavinC]

Originally posted by Dentaldream
Gavin,

I'm curious to know if that is what you said during your interviews? In my opinion, there is NO WAY any admissions committee will respect this answer. If I was a member of an admissions committee, I'd rather hear the same old boring, but ethically correct response, instead of hearing about an applicants desire to purchase his/her own yacht by the time they're 35.

Why? I mentioned it, because it was ONE of the several reasons I wanted to enter the profession.

But once again, why is a canned response better? It's better to lie than be honest?

 

[ItsGavinC]

Originally posted by Barry20
Gavin,

If I get an interview at Arizona, I hope you don't sit in on the interview. 😛 I will be looking at Gavin after every response to see him roll his eyes🙄 . Just kidding my friend. Great insight and I think you are exactly right.

Nahh, I don't roll my eyes. At least not anymore than everybody else does.

 

[ItsGavinC]

Originally posted by Dentaldream
I agree there is nothing wrong with going into dent because its a good business. But if you tell the adcom all of your "noble" reasons to go into dentistry (ie helping people, provide an valuable service to the community) and then throw in "oh yeah, I want to be rich too", which reason do you think they will remember? 😀

I find it interesting that you put quotation marks around 'noble'.

WHY should you list noble reasons if you don't care for those reasons?

Look, I'm not dissing on anybody who has those items as their motivation. My point is simply that it isn't possible for EVERY candidate who walks in the door to have "helping people" as their first desire, yet every candidate seems to mention this and nothing else.

 

[ItsGavinC]

Originally posted by critterbug
And surely adcoms respect honesty.

I think this statement is a gold mine.

Listen and I'll tell you why.

As interviewees, all you think about is that one single interview (or two, depending on school). We probably think that the interviewers are wide-awake, bushy tailed, and ready to listen to our every word.

In actuality this is NOT true. MANY can attest to this. In fact, last year at Case Western, I was in mid-sentence when one of my interviewers got up to go get some coffee (in another room). He said, "keep talking, I'll be right back".

Further, because I've participated in the interviews, I can assure you that NO interviewer is listening to every word you say. ESPECIALLY if you are the 8th interview they've conducted that day.

Personally, I tune out after hearing the applicant say "so I can help people" for the third time in less than 10 minutes. Bull-crap.

As applicants we treat the interview as a one-shot deal to show the adcoms we are encrusted in gold. The adcoms view it as part of the process to choose those candidates that are most likely to pay the deposit and attend their school.

It isn't really a lot more complicated than that. Other factors come into play, but that's the jist of it.

 

[ItsGavinC]

Here's a thread that was in the Lounge not too long ago. It deals with interviews and the medical school admissions process, but I think it pertains to us also.

For the record, I found the comments on the thread to be: highly informative, highly hilarious, and highly true.

You can find it at: http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?s=&threadid=83589

 

[ItsGavinC]

Originally posted by mmapcpro
If the only HONEST reasons a person can come up with are short hours and big money, then they don't really deserve to be treating patients.

Just an opinion of an honorable person with high ethics.

Sorry, but I completely disagree. Are you saying a person who wants short hours and big money is unethical?

Please elaborate about this.

 

[ItsGavinC]

mmapcpro,

My apologies, you are correct. I just reread your post, and when you wrote "Just an opinion of an honorable person with high ethics," I mistook that to mean something it obviously didn't. Once again, my bad.

To rephrase my question in accordance with what your post really said:

Why should somebody who wants short hours and lots of money have a difficult time getting through the screening process to treat patients?

I'd like direct answers, not general theories. Thanks.

By the way, I'm not disagreeing. I'm only playing devil's advocate because I think students begin school wanting to promote oral health throughout the world. By the time graduation roles around, 99% of students are so financially strapped that they'll go wherever the money is. If so, then what is the harm of entering school with money/short hours as your goal?

 

[ItsGavinC]

Excellent pair of posts, I agree completely.

 

[larryt]

Thanks for the tips gavin ! Help me alots

Hope one day you can come to Houston, I will show you my dentist's office in poor income area. In fact, I will show you several offices of my friends too. Many of them see average 40 -50 pts/day. Many time they offer $45 charge ( price of simple extraction) for the first molar root canal and crown because mom can't afford it for her young yrs child. Yes, they make around 120k/year but with huge loads of poor patients. Beside that, many of them schedule few days per month to treat free of charge for patients referring from the churchs and other charity organizations. Their passion of serving underserved area encouraged me to apply for dental school. So not all dentists out there went to this field for money.

 

[critterbug]

Originally posted by mmapcpro
In my opinion, anybody looking to become a dentist should be able to easily come up with a multitude of HONEST reasons why.

If the only HONEST reasons a person can come up with are short hours and big money, then they don't really deserve to be treating patients. And as such, they SHOULD have an extreme amount of difficulty trying to get into dental school.

Just an opinion of an honorable person with high ethics.

The list of reasons on the ADA website that I posted above are all GREAT and HONEST reasons why I want to be a dentist. Obviously, the # 1 reason why I want to pursue dentistry is the first one:

Service To Others: Dentists help people maintain and improve their oral health, quality of life and appearance. Dentists receive a great deal of personal satisfaction by providing an essential community health service, by educating future dentists and by doing valuable research. Dentists treat everyone-the healthy, the ill, the young, the elderly, the disadvantaged and those with special needs.

But there is nothing wrong with mentioning the other reasons why I am pursuing this field, whether it be during an interview or just casually talking to anyone who asks that question.

But lets face it, if the reason above was the only reason one were going into dentistry, I can assure you that the Peace Corps would offer a much more rewarding career.

 

[Bickle]

Gavin,

From reading your last couple of posts, I'm confused. Are you saying that it is better to say i'm in it for the money, rather than the other run-of-the-mill reasons?

Even if that is true (that your in dent soley for the money and nothing else), being honest about it in your interview will not get you a lot of love from adcoms.

I can just see it now, critterbug or someone else, walking into his interview and yelling "SHOW ME THE MONEY!!"

Sorry critterbug, I didnt mean to single you out, your screen name was the only one I could remember.

 

[critterbug]

OK

That comment was uncalled for. I am not going into dentistry *only* for the money. If you read my posts above, you will surely realize that.

I'm just trying to say that there is nothing wrong with mentioning the *other* reasons that the ADA are using themselves to recruit individuals into the field.

 

[Bickle]

Critterbug,

My apologies, I wasnt saying that was the only reason you were going into dent. I was just depicting a hypothetical if an applicant would say that in their interview. By no means was I saying you are in dent just to make the bling bling.

 

[critterbug]

No problem. I usually never get upset. But for someone to assume that about me, well, it just makes me feel bad. I know the internet can be hard to truly express what kind of individual you are, but I am really a stand-up guy. And I don't want anyone to think otherwise.

I will post it again so that everyone can see. This came straight off the ADA website. I will even provide the link so others can check it out themselves.

http://www.ada.org/public/education/careers/dentistry_bro.asp


*********************************

Dentistry ? A Unique Opportunity

Service To Others: Dentists help people maintain and improve their oral health, quality of life and appearance. Dentists receive a great deal of personal satisfaction by providing an essential community health service, by educating future dentists and by doing valuable research. Dentists treat everyone-the healthy, the ill, the young, the elderly, the disadvantaged and those with special needs.


Balanced Lifestyle: Dentistry is an appealing career because it offers the flexibility to balance a professional life and personal goals.


Self-employment: Dentistry affords the opportunity to be one's own boss and own a dental practice. As independent entrepreneurs, dentists set and maintain their own regular hours.


Earning Potential/Demand: A dentist's average income is in the highest 5% of U.S. family income, according to the U.S. Census Bureau. The demand for dental care is projected to grow. As baby boomers age, they will continue to need preventive services and many baby boomers will require maintenance on existing dental work. Large numbers of dentists are expected to retire in the next 20 years, creating a need for new dentists.


Status and Prestige: Dentists are socially conscious, talented, civic-minded professionals who work with community leaders and other health professionals to promote oral health care. Dentistry has a distinguished history of leadership in improving world health.


Creativity: As artists, dentists combine keen visual memory, excellent judgment of space and shape and a high degree of manual dexterity in the delivery of patient services. Computer applications complement scientific knowledge and technical skills.


Variety: Dentistry is changing rapidly, creating many opportunities and challenges. Dentists treat a diverse group of patients in a variety of settings using a variety of techniques and procedures.


Detection of Diseases: Dentists are often the first health care providers to recognize and identify a number of illnesses- including cancer and cardiovascular problems. Research suggests an increasing number of links between oral diseases and other health concerns.


Diagnosis and Treatment: Dentists diagnose and treat conditions affecting the teeth, tongue, gums, lips and jaws. Exciting technologies, such as digital radiography and laser systems, along with enhanced new materials and techniques, can be used to correct dental problems.


Surgical Restoration: Dentists perform trauma surgery, place implants, graft tissue to repair, restore and maintain the teeth, gums, and oral structures that have been lost or damaged by accidents or disease.


Cosmetic Improvement: Dentists improve their patient's appearance by using a wide variety of modern dental materials and equipment to help patients feel better about their smiles.


Prevention/Education: Dentists educate patients and the general public on how to maintain oral health and prevent disease. Dental professionals play a leadership role in implementing community-based preventive programs, such as community water fluoridation, sealant programs or oral cancer screening.


Research: Dentists are involved as scientists to further the knowledge of oral diseases, treatment techniques and materials used to correct dental problems.

 

[savvysearch]

[
When people ask "why do you want to be a dentist?," most people can come up with an honest reason of why they want to be a dentist besides short hours/money. The problem is that it is the same reason everyone else has. One of the main reasons why people pursue dentistry is, basically, to help people. And that's the truth! But how boring of an answer is that? No matter how many ways you can elaborate on "I want to help people," it's still comes off generic and corny. And if you say the reason is because of lifestyle/money/prestige/hours, you come off shallow. So you either come off generic and corny or shallow and moneygrubbing.

Fact: The truth is boring. So how do you give a great answer when you have such a boring reason, without lying?

That's why I think most don't realize that the question is deceptively difficult to answer. So when people have a difficult time answering, I think it is unfair to say that they don't deserve to get into dentistry or that they have ill intentions.

 

[ItsGavinC]

Originally posted by Dentaldream
Gavin,

From reading your last couple of posts, I'm confused. Are you saying that it is better to say i'm in it for the money, rather than the other run-of-the-mill reasons?

YES -- if it is the truth!

If it isn't then -- NO.

I'm saying be honest with the adcoms. It's probably the only thing that will wake them up from their interview-induced coma as they sit across the table from you.

 

[Bickle]

Originally posted by ItsGavinC
YES -- if it is the truth!

If it isn't then -- NO.

I'm saying be honest with the adcoms. It's probably the only thing that will wake them up from their interview-induced coma as they sit across the table from you.

Sounds risky, but hey, it might work. I'm just concerned that the adcoms will wake up from anger and shock, rather than getting a breath of fresh air from hearing someone being honest.

 

[critterbug]

I'm surprised mcataz hasn't chimed in here Where ya at buddy?

 

[ItsGavinC]

Originally posted by Dentaldream
Sounds risky, but hey, it might work. I'm just concerned that the adcoms will wake up from anger and shock, rather than getting a breath of fresh air from hearing someone being honest.

Yeah, but anger and shock about what?

I'm just pressing you guys to get you to think a bit about your responses.

Where does it say that job stability, money, and short hours aren't noble?

If those are you primary reasons for entering the profession, will you be a poor doctor?

Would you provide better patient care if you were paying off your student loans for 20 years, or would you provide better patient care if you made enough money to pay them off in 5 years?

Would having "toys" outside of work allow you to better understand what your patients desire?

If your spouse and children were *well* taken care of, would that allow you to concentrate to a greater extent on your work?

Is it not possible to truly care for your patients AND enjoy every minute you are with them, in conjunction with working 20 hours a week and making $200k?

Some good questions, I think.

 

[larryt]

At each interview, I told them I was sick of my current job and wanna something new --- perhaps dentistry. Just tried to cut the interview short and get to the point.

 

[comatose]

I agree with you GavinC. I will be honest with every question that is presented to me, even if it's not what they want to hear. You really are an asset to this forum, GavinC. I appreciate all the advice you give to us pre-dents. Thanks a bunch!!!! 🙂

 

[critterbug]

How can one truly know what adcom's "want to hear"? What if the person interviewing you is a private-practicing dentist who only teaches part time. Do you think he/she will want to hear the same answers as say a PhD professor of Anatomy? Or a full time dental professor who spent his/her career in the military?

A good strategy is to be honest and answer questions in a neutral tone. It is best to be on the safe side in any interview, whether it be a job interview or a dental school interview. Your main objective should be to answer the questions honestly and show your personality without "ruffling any feathers" so to speak.

But I'm sure everyone has their own interviewing style, and really there is no "right" way to do it. Just go in confident, but not arrogant. Answer the questions, smile, and show them that you are a human being. If you have a great personality, this is the time to let it shine.

Again, just my opinion.

 

[mcataz]

Don't worry. I think most of us in here are pretty vanilla. I feel that most people in here embellish their extracurriculars. For example, I have read countless posts from people saying they have a 2.8 GPA but they go to a competitive undergrad or they are president of several clubs or they have been published 5 times. It's kind of like them saying, I suck but I have all of these others things to bring me up. It won't. Hey, I'm no better but at least I won't make my extracurriculars seem more important than they are. Yeah, I was President of the class....big deal. It doesn't mean anything.

For the most part schools care about GPA and DAT. Everything else is icing on the cake.

 

[Bickle]

Originally posted by mcataz


For the most part schools care about GPA and DAT. Everything else is icing on the cake.

Personally, the icing is my favorite part of the cake.

 

[ShawnOne]

Originally posted by critterbug
How can one truly know what adcom's "want to hear"? What if the person interviewing you is a private-practicing dentist who only teaches part time. Do you think he/she will want to hear the same answers as say a PhD professor of Anatomy? Or a full time dental professor who spent his/her career in the military?

critterbug,

you asked, "How can one truly know what adcom's want to hear?"

That?s the key question!

The answer : You must read the situation correctly and answer appropriately.

Here is the thing. Many of the people who work in institutions of higher learning are life long academics. These types of people do NOT respect those who are pursuing academics, in any field, with the final outcome of money in mind. Some of these life-long academics have the mentality that students should pursue education for the sake of learning and advancement rather than the pursuit of short hours and big checks. Actually, I am related to someone like this (MBA level economics professor) and we were having this conversation just a few days ago.

So, basically, my suggestion is to be very careful about what you say in an interview. You must read the situation and respond accordingly. Also, I disagree with "preparing" for an interview. You should already know all of the reasons you want to be a dentist, and then be selective with your responses according to the situation. If someone like Gavin in interviewing you, then don?t keep saying you want to only help people. Likewise, if an academic is interviewing you, avoid talking about how you want short hours and good pay because you have a family. (Although many people want both)

 

[critterbug]

Originally posted by savvysearch
[
When people ask "why do you want to be a dentist?," most people can come up with an honest reason of why they want to be a dentist besides short hours/money. The problem is that it is the same reason everyone else has. One of the main reasons why people pursue dentistry is, basically, to help people. And that's the truth! But how boring of an answer is that? No matter how many ways you can elaborate on "I want to help people," it's still comes off generic and corny. And if you say the reason is because of lifestyle/money/prestige/hours, you come off shallow. So you either come off generic and corny or shallow and moneygrubbing.

Fact: The truth is boring. So how do you give a great answer when you have such a boring reason, without lying?

That's why I think most don't realize that the question is deceptively difficult to answer. So when people have a difficult time answering, I think it is unfair to say that they don't deserve to get into dentistry or that they have ill intentions.

Great post savvy

 

[critterbug]

Originally posted by ShawnOne
critterbug,

you asked, "How can one truly know what adcom's want to hear?"

That?s the key question!

The answer : You must read the situation correctly and answer appropriately.

Here is the thing. Many of the people who work in institutions of higher learning are life long academics. These types of people do NOT respect those who are pursuing academics, in any field, with the final outcome of money in mind. Some of these life-long academics have the mentality that students should pursue education for the sake of learning and advancement rather than the pursuit of short hours and big checks. Actually, I am related to someone like this (MBA level economics professor) and we were having this conversation just a few days ago.

So, basically, my suggestion is to be very careful about what you say in an interview. You must read the situation and respond accordingly. Also, I disagree with "preparing" for an interview. You should already know all of the reasons you want to be a dentist, and then be selective with your responses according to the situation. If someone like Gavin in interviewing you, then don?t keep saying you want to only help people. Likewise, if an academic is interviewing you, avoid talking about how you want short hours and good pay because you have a family. (Although many people want both)

Great response Shawn.

However, that question I asked was purely rhetorical. I was trying to make the point that there is really no "right" answer to this question, since there are so many variables involved.

I think we all have one thing in common: we want to go into dentistry to provide a service to others and help people. But lets face it. There are many other professions that will allow one to accomplish that. I think many of us are pursuing dentistry for a *combination* of reasons. I don't think everyone on this forum is going into this field for the *sole* purpose to help people. But on the flip side, I don't think everyone on this forum is going into dentistry for *just* the autonomy and income. The field of dentistry is unique in that it offers a *variety* of positive attributes that each of us on this forum find attractive.

 

[Balki]

Originally posted by ShawnOne
critterbug,

you asked, "How can one truly know what adcom's want to hear?"

That?s the key question!

The answer : You must read the situation correctly and answer appropriately.

Here is the thing. Many of the people who work in institutions of higher learning are life long academics. These types of people do NOT respect those who are pursuing academics, in any field, with the final outcome of money in mind. Some of these life-long academics have the mentality that students should pursue education for the sake of learning and advancement rather than the pursuit of short hours and big checks. Actually, I am related to someone like this (MBA level economics professor) and we were having this conversation just a few days ago.

So, basically, my suggestion is to be very careful about what you say in an interview. You must read the situation and respond accordingly. Also, I disagree with "preparing" for an interview. You should already know all of the reasons you want to be a dentist, and then be selective with your responses according to the situation. If someone like Gavin in interviewing you, then don?t keep saying you want to only help people. Likewise, if an academic is interviewing you, avoid talking about how you want short hours and good pay because you have a family. (Although many people want both)

I agree with the above quotation. My school conducts Pre-Professional office interviews and each premed and predental student is required to attend these interviews. There is usually a scheduled appointment that one needs to make. However I was asked if I could
switch my appointment day and basically go to that interview unprepared. Well the end of the story is that I ended up answering interviews first question (WHY do you want to be a dentist) for almost 10 minutes. Mentioning all the wonderful aspects here are some:
Working with people
Exciting Educational aspects of the job
including education your patients and a possible career in academia
Working with hands, the chance of actually making something
Stability and Independence.
Science Involved, including Chemistry, and Medical
Financial stability
and many others. In short if someone asks me the "why" question they will have to stop me before I finish, because it is going to be a long answer.
Regarding the orginal post: Dental school involves a lot of work and high degree of maturity. I have had people to tell me that Time management , knowing how to study and desire to succeed are probably the most important factors. So you have it all , there should be nothing for you to worry. You are very lucky that you wife supports you and I am sure you'll "pay " her back, if not already. Just find time to study for the DAT, get a good score and good luck in Dental school. Before I conclude let me tell you about a professor of mine. He has an active practice and also Teaches Biochemistry, he also has two labs associated with him. Has an Md and PhD degree. The interesting part is that he went to Med school at the age of 35, after spending years in the Army and being married twice. After med school he got his PhD and now doing both teaching, practicing medicine and developing drugs against parasitic eukaryotes.(I admit the man never sleeps) The point is that you must never give up and work hard, not because you like the money but because you enjoy the challenge, and working with people. The money will come.
But if you only care about the money, then you might end up being pathetic and unhappy for the rest of your life.

This was quite a philosophical statement, but I have a history papery due and this was a nice warm up. Good luck to all of you, I myself can't wait to get an interview!

 

[Bickle]

Originally posted by ShawnOne
. Also, I disagree with "preparing" for an interview. You should already know all of the reasons you want to be a dentist, and then be selective with your responses according to the situation.

Shawn,

I disagree with this statement. The common mistake many people make is not preparing for an interview. They think their spontanity will sound better than a rehersed response. But I disagree, you cant prepare enough for an interview. What if you're asked a question you didnt prepare for and are sitting there with nothing to say, that would be really bad. I agree you should already have a basic idea of what you want to say, but you have to prepare for those on the spot questions.

To prepare for my interviews, I searched on google for commonly asked questions. One question that was on that list was "Where do you see dentistry going in the next 25 years?". I thought there would be no way I would get this question during my interview. But I still thought it over, and came up with an intelligent answer in the rare case I would be asked it.

And what was the second question I was asked during my 1st interview? That very same one! Regardless to say, I was happy that I took the time to prepare. If I didnt, well, I dont even want to think what might have happened.

Another good way to prepare for interviews is set up a mock interview session with your school. If they dont offer that, try and get one of your profs to help you out. Stay away from having your parents/friends doing this for you, as it wont really simulate an interview situation very well.

 

[Bickle]

Originally posted by ItsGavinC
Yeah, but anger and shock about what?

Shock and anger over someone not having any respect for the profession other than what it can do for their bank account. To me that seems pretty shallow, and I would not respect that. And, also, keep in mind that you're talking with someone who has devoted their lives to dentistry, and want nothing but the best for the future of the profession. Do you seriously think that they will look fondly upon someone who only wants to use the profession to make money?

Again, I'm not saying these are the motives of anyone here on SDN. I'm just depicting a hypothetical situation.

 

[arns51]

Another thing that I think everyone should think about is that we are not interviewing with the ADCOM, we are interviewing with one or two people. And to my knowledge they will only give a score, or their opinion about a person to the ADCOM. So we have to keep in mind that each interviewer has their own personal agenda, beliefs, etc. etc. that will affect what they are looking for in a potential student. Saying you are in Dentistry for the money could easily piss someone off. Even for the stupid reason that they are conservative and want to hear a respectful answer (I know, a bit of a stretch). Telling an interviewer you are in it for the money could work very well. However, it totally depends on the interviewer, and I would not recomend anybody takes that chance (im not willing to). But of course, saying you are looking for financial stability in a career is respectful and what 99.9% of the population is also looking for, which would be a nice way of wording one of your many reason why you are going into dentistry.

 

[critterbug]

I'm gonna agree with Dentaldream on that one. He's right. If someone was going into dentistry for the sole reason of making money, then I don't think I would want that person as a colleague of mine. And I don't think a person with those types of motivations would reflect positively on the profession.

There is nothing wrong with having an entrepreneurial spirit. But a comment like that shows greed, which is something that *noone* should have when providing healthcare for others.

 

[ItsGavinC]

Originally posted by Dentaldream
Shock and anger over someone not having any respect for the profession other than what it can do for their bank account. To me that seems pretty shallow, and I would not respect that. And, also, keep in mind that you're talking with someone who has devoted their lives to dentistry, and want nothing but the best for the future of the profession.

But you'll find out that probably 50% of your interviewers have nothing to do with dentistry as a profession. They are either PhDs in education, or MBAs, or community leaders, or Ph Ds, etc., etc.

I'll say it once again: an truthful answer like that doesn't strike anybody as being "greedy". It strikes them as a breath of fresh air after hearing "to help people" all day long.

 

[ItsGavinC]

Originally posted by critterbug
If someone was going into dentistry for the sole reason of making money, then I don't think I would want that person as a colleague of mine. And I don't think a person with those types of motivations would reflect positively on the profession.

Why?

Sorry to keep it going, but why?

Rather than having everybody throw altruistic mumbo-jumbo back and forth, I'd like to know some specific reasons as to why.

As the official devil's advocate, I'd like to take this opportunity to point out that those who have money/financial stability as their PRIMARY motivating factor, are not mysteriously pre-determined to treat their patients like trash, or not contribute to the profession.

Everybody is following the logic that the two are mutually inclusive. They aren't.