Non-Trad M1 on Winter Break, Ask Me Whatever

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Eccesignum

I Narcanned Your Honor Student
10+ Year Member
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So we've had our last final for the semester and I'm on winter break, hooray.

I'm a non-trad career changer, didn't even have medical school in mind until my early thirties. Been around SDN since 2011. The university where I went for pre-med had no pre-med advising, so I got the bulk of my information on low GPA resurrection and application do-and-don't from SDN -- thank you to everyone who put up with me for five years (and ongoing).

I figured I'd drop this open post for people that have general questions about M1 thusfar, or whatever about the application/pre-med stage, which is still burnt fresh in my mind. Keep in mind I'm just one person and can only go off my own experience and what I've heard from others, which doesn't cover everything in the world.

I'll be checking in until the beginning of January. Ask away (or don't, and I'll just take a nap).
 
I like to ask this question because it varies from person to person, but how do you differentiate between how much you should study and how much free time you allot for yourself?


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Hey friend! Thanks again for previewing my PS a couple months ago (got me into medical school)

Was there anything you felt you needed to buy your first semester that you didn't predict?

Any preventable mistakes?

Thanks again!
 
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So we've had our last final for the semester and I'm on winter break, hooray.

I'm a non-trad career changer, didn't even have medical school in mind until my early thirties. Been around SDN since 2011. The university where I went for pre-med had no pre-med advising, so I got the bulk of my information on low GPA resurrection and application do-and-don't from SDN -- thank you to everyone who put up with me for five years (and ongoing).

I figured I'd drop this open post for people that have general questions about M1 thusfar, or whatever about the application/pre-med stage, which is still burnt fresh in my mind. Keep in mind I'm just one person and can only go off my own experience and what I've heard from others, which doesn't cover everything in the world.

I'll be checking in until the beginning of January. Ask away (or don't, and I'll just take a nap).

Congrats to you for achieving your goal. Based on your post, is it safe to assume you are not in your late 30s? If so, I'm interested to hear how, if at all, your age came up on the interview trail. If you have kids, did that come up at all?

And what about your fellow med students? I remember looking around at my law school orientation and thinking "who are these old people?" when I would see a non-trad. Now I'm going to be the old person if I'm lucky enough to get next cycle. Have you integrated well into your class (assuming that's something you want to do)?
 
I like to ask this question because it varies from person to person, but how do you differentiate between how much you should study and how much free time you allot for yourself?


Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile

Monday through Thursday are generally "buckle down" days for me right now. I watch my lectures, then go back over each to make memory notes, flashcards, whatever it is that works for me for that particular material. Usually take about a 30-45 minute break in the middle to take a walk. I'm normally finished by (or before) 9 pm and try to reserve at least an hour before bed for decompression. I'm rarely up past 11 pm/midnight; I know sleep deprivation will start coming into play as things get more intense and so I'm making sure not to take sleep for granted for as long as I'm able.

I always take at least one half-day off totally for myself on the weekend, no exceptions. I use that as a little reward for myself, either planning to do something in particular or setting aside some hours to mess around with computer games or whatever. Sometimes if I'm really caught up I can blow a whole day, though I have to play that by ear. The "staying caught up" part is important for my balance...we have a lecture-based curriculum with recorded lectures, and I try not to let myself get more than two lectures behind on a given day as I find that increases my stress. I go into actual lecture maybe half the time, to make sure I'm keeping on pace (especially on days when there's like six lectures). So when the weekend comes I do my best to not be learning anything new at that point, and I can assess how much time I can give myself off.

There sometimes comes a point, even when I haven't been working for long, when I just am not concentrating well and need to do something else, and I find that's okay. I don't force myself to study when it's not productive. If I need to step away for a little bit, I step away.

Overall, it's definitely challenging to keep pace and requires a lot of dedication, but I've found that putting the effort into staying caught up on the front end lets me take more time for myself on the back end, and so that's what I do.

Hopefully that answered the question 🙂 As you say, everyone's different.
 
Hey friend! Thanks again for previewing my PS a couple months ago (got me into medical school)

Was there anything you felt you needed to buy your first semester that you didn't predict?

Any preventable mistakes?

Thanks again!


Congrats!!! Enjoy the coasting of the next half year and try to do something on your bucket list over the summer. You're in for a ride 😉

Good questions. As for things to buy, nothing that made my mouth drop in horror. Make sure you have a good laptop, of course. Get a sturdy backpack and pair of comfortable sneakers. Set up your desk ahead of time, make sure you have pens and highlighters and all the little things. Make sure your car is in good working order. Find out whether you need to convert your driver's license if you're changing states. Know where the closest supermarket, Target, whatevers are to your new home. Make sure you know the route to school (driving and any public transport...I woke up to a dead car battery once already and thank goodness I knew what bus to take), where you're supposed to park, whether you need to buy a parking pass...little logistics things like that just take care of well in advance of school starting, because finding those out at the last minute can be stressful.

If your school starts with anatomy I'd suggest having a Netter's atlas or whatever your favorite is on day 1, because you'll hit the ground running. I suggest buying a physical copy. Essential Anatomy is a very good program, I found out about it a few weeks in and wished I'd had it at the start.

Make sure your wardrobe has some "business casual" clothing, more than jeans but less than suit (and shoes that won't kill your feet, especially if you're female...whoever designed most women's flats needs to be shot).

As for preventable mistakes -- kind of boring, but none, really. Some things are really specific to just the way my particular school operates, which is going to be different for everyone. If anything I'd say I should have opened up a bit more to my classmates early on. My class is (mostly) pretty fantastic and many very willing to share things they've found, but everyone comes into this a bit scared and standoffish and it took a while for me to just say "Hey, do you know any good resources for X?". People who are from the city your school is in are an especially good resource and many will like to to tell you all about things you can find.

Same with my assigned student mentor. 🙂 If they give you a mentor, ask questions! Expect to be bowled over by all the info and to remember absolutely nothing the next day (seriously, if you asked me all what they told us back in orientation I couldn't tell you right now). It's okay. Just ask again.
 
Congrats to you for achieving your goal. Based on your post, is it safe to assume you are not in your late 30s? If so, I'm interested to hear how, if at all, your age came up on the interview trail.

And what about your fellow med students? I remember looking around at my law school orientation and thinking "who are these old people?" when I would see a non-trad. Now I'm going to be the old person if I'm lucky enough to get next cycle. Have you integrated well into your class (assuming that's something you want to do)?

I am in my late thirties, yes. I honestly don't know which of my interviewers, if any, knew my exact age. Nobody put it out there as directly as "So you're 3X, huh?". In open interviews, obviously when they looked at my application they could see the dates of when I went to college and the dates of my first job, so some of them had an idea that I wasn't 23.

For the most part, honestly, the depth of experience on my application was a positive. Most of my interviewers were quite eager to ask about things on my application from some time ago, especially the non-medical things I've done. My earliest employment was in the professional arts, and twice I was matched with interviewers who also had music or theatre work in their own past. I very much doubt those were accidents. I was asked more than once to just explain the path that had brought me here and what made me decide that was I going to do this now versus earlier, but it was never in an unkind way.

Overall I think the huge range of experiences on my application worked for me.

If you have kids, did that come up at all?

I don't have children, and that fact never came up.

And what about your fellow med students? I remember looking around at my law school orientation and thinking "who are these old people?" when I would see a non-trad. Now I'm going to be the old person if I'm lucky enough to get next cycle. Have you integrated well into your class (assuming that's something you want to do)?

The first time my age ever came up to any classmate was a few weeks into anatomy when someone in my dissection group complained of feeling old at 25. I of course laughed and said imagine how I feel at *my age*. The group went silent and jaws dropped, and one girl said, "Whoa, I totally never thought that!". And now of course most people that I talk to regularly know. It doesn't affect our working relationship at all; if anything my being older and having worked several years in healthcare seems to have a positive effect on a lot of people's trust in me. And I find that being able to interject a different viewpoint during discussions is valuable.

I do notice a mindset difference, though some undoubtedly also comes from the fact that I was raised in a different socioeconomic background than many people who go to medical school. I notice slang being used that I'm not used to, references to music I don't know, little things like that that remind me that yes, there's a generational difference here. Sometimes I do feel a little isolated, though it's not the fault of my classmates. It's just very obvious when I look around that I'm older (and doesn't help that every professor constantly does the *tee hee, you're all too young to remember this, but...* and then says something that happened when I was like 16). But as I said it's me and not their behavior, and just something that was inevitable. It doesn't make me regret coming here, not at all.

And there will be other old folks in your class. My roommate is another non-trad SDNer that I met in last year's application cycle thread who's even older than I am, and we help keep each other sane. And I've been told it all shifts in third year when you're actually on the wards and interacting with people more in their 30s and older. Which will be nice. But it's been fine, and I'm quite happy that so many of my classmates think it's "so cool" that I'm doing what I'm doing.
 
1 question: Why are you here??!?!?! Go have some frickin fun dammit.
 
SDN does not count at "close to nothing" Eccesignum... go enjoy your freedom. It's crazy to think about where all of us were 12 months ago


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SDN does not count at "close to nothing" Eccesignum... go enjoy your freedom. It's crazy to think about where all of us were 12 months ago


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I'm having a fine time. Sitting here with a nice glass of wine, brushing up on the manual for my camera so I can take it for a spin tomorrow morning. "Fun" for everyone doesn't mean going out and getting drunk at a club or whatever.
 
As far as choosing a specialty, do you feel limited because of being a nontrad? (Not implying that you should!) Also, sorry if this has been answered but are you planning to have kids? If so, when do you foresee being able to fit that in?


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As far as choosing a specialty, do you feel limited because of being a nontrad? (Not implying that you should!) Also, sorry if this has been answered but are you planning to have kids? If so, when do you foresee being able to fit that in?


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No implication assumed, it's a legit question. I've actually had a few chats with attendings in a few specialties that have drawn my attention so far, discussing age and other variables besides one's Step I score. I feel like I'm not limited by age in and of itself but rather how well I take care of myself. There are people in their 50s and 60s who run marathons, and people in their 20s who can barely carry a box up the stairs. I'm not very attracted to specialties with very long residencies just for practicality, but if I fell in love with one and had the board scores to get there, I wouldn't rule it out.

I don't want kids, no. When I go to AMWA campus meetings I end up half asleep through most of them, as 75% of the talk is about managing life with kids. Though don't get me wrong, I'm glad there's support for it in pockets when the country at large is still in the dark ages regarding the issue. I have other things I'd like to "fit in" to my life though, like volunteering with organizations like Doctors Without Borders (been a dream of mine since before I became a nurse), which I hope I'll figure out how to manage one day.
 
I'm having a fine time. Sitting here with a nice glass of wine, brushing up on the manual for my camera so I can take it for a spin tomorrow morning. "Fun" for everyone doesn't mean going out and getting drunk at a club or whatever.
I wasn't suggesting inebriation at all. Take a road trip. Go to a museum.
Or yeah, kill pixels on your XBone. What games are you playing?
 
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I'm having a fine time. Sitting here with a nice glass of wine, brushing up on the manual for my camera so I can take it for a spin tomorrow morning. "Fun" for everyone doesn't mean going out and getting drunk at a club or whatever.

Just giving you a hard time, I'm currently sitting by the pool in mehico, filling out my fafsa, and on my 4th book of the trip...this is my first real vacation in 2 years, and don't foresee many in the near future after matriculating. But with that said, gotta check in on SDN every now and then during down time while the wifey gets ready to go out to dinner or the such


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I'm having a fine time. Sitting here with a nice glass of wine, brushing up on the manual for my camera so I can take it for a spin tomorrow morning. "Fun" for everyone doesn't mean going out and getting drunk at a club or whatever.

That actually brings up a legit point. I'll be 35 when I matriculate. I don't drink, but it would be nice to occasionally go out with classmates. Do most people in your class equate going out with getting ****hammered?
 
I have a pretty diverse group of friends that are currently in med school - and I would have to say its pretty mixed. Some have parties and get blackout every opportunity they get (see holidays, post exam weekends, etc), and others that are married and have a group of friends that just get together to go to trivia, go to the zoo with their kids, etc. So I would say it's what you make of it from what I've seen


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That actually brings up a legit point. I'll be 35 when I matriculate. I don't drink, but it would be nice to occasionally go out with classmates. Do most people in your class equate going out with getting ****hammered?

I have a pretty diverse group of friends that are currently in med school - and I would have to say its pretty mixed. Some have parties and get blackout every opportunity they get (see holidays, post exam weekends, etc), and others that are married and have a group of friends that just get together to go to trivia, go to the zoo with their kids, etc. So I would say it's what you make of it from what I've seen


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Yeah, it's a mixed bag and partly depends on the culture around your school too. If there's a lot of nightlife around, people will go to it. Definitely true here, where there's no shortage of flashy lights. My class can party pretty damn hard; I'm even impressed by the stamina of some of them, lol.

When it comes to doing things with your class, don't worry too hard about it. If your school has a standard fairly large class you probably won't even know half the students. You also might find, if you're relying on loans, that many people in your class come from significant money and their parents are paying tuition/rent/etc...they have a lot more available to blow on a night out. You might not be able to participate in some things that go on; I've had to sit out on a few "class activities" because I simply couldn't afford it. And I'm not hating on folks with the means, it's just the way it is.

But you'll find your people, and probably some of them won't be from med school at all. I've done some social events here that had nothing to do with med school, and found friends not in the medical circle (which can be nice). We also have quite a few older folks in the class (I'm only the third oldest) who like to stay more chill. Be prepared to feel a little isolated, as that's just the way it is when you're out of the norm, but I think you'll be surprised at how you can find your people if you look.
 
If I could go back in time, the best advice would be to be caught up with the day lecture. Did fine procrastinating in Anatomy being behind 3-4 days of lecture before an exam but it wasn't fine for the next block. LOL. I ended up doing fine but yeah don't be behind.
 
Yeah, it's a mixed bag and partly depends on the culture around your school too. If there's a lot of nightlife around, people will go to it. Definitely true here, where there's no shortage of flashy lights. My class can party pretty damn hard; I'm even impressed by the stamina of some of them, lol.

When it comes to doing things with your class, don't worry too hard about it. If your school has a standard fairly large class you probably won't even know half the students. You also might find, if you're relying on loans, that many people in your class come from significant money and their parents are paying tuition/rent/etc...they have a lot more available to blow on a night out. You might not be able to participate in some things that go on; I've had to sit out on a few "class activities" because I simply couldn't afford it. And I'm not hating on folks with the means, it's just the way it is.

But you'll find your people, and probably some of them won't be from med school at all. I've done some social events here that had nothing to do with med school, and found friends not in the medical circle (which can be nice). We also have quite a few older folks in the class (I'm only the third oldest) who like to stay more chill. Be prepared to feel a little isolated, as that's just the way it is when you're out of the norm, but I think you'll be surprised at how you can find your people if you look.

Won't be relying on loans, thank God. But having two kids does make me more frugal. I don't really enjoy going out to bars anymore (moved out of that stage a few years ago lol), so I'm hoping there are some older guys like me.

I'm okay being isolated though. All the guys who work with me now are around 8-10 years younger than me. We don't hang out off duty but we still get along at work. I'm kind of like the older brother or uncle they go to for advice LOL.
 
As far as choosing a specialty, do you feel limited because of being a nontrad? (Not implying that you should!) Also, sorry if this has been answered but are you planning to have kids? If so, when do you foresee being able to fit that in?


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I'll hijack her thread to help give you an answer that's different from OP's.

I feel personally limited, but that pressure is internal and comes from the family dynamics that my husband & I want and the lifestyle we want to have. If you have a significant other and a family, it makes a difference. My mentor told me that often people tell med students (especially women!) that we shouldn't pick a specialty based on residency style and lifestyle as an attending - but she says that's bulls**t and that we definitely should keep those things in mind when we want families/have families. It's practical, not detrimental.

The kids question is one that goes through my head seemingly constantly. A few of my friends at school are a couple years older and plan on having kids during 4th year (what our dean advised us to do when we asked) and I think I might wait a few more years after that. I'll be ~33/34 with our current plan (and near the end of residency probably), but I'm also open to waiting longer and want to adopt at least one kid if we have kids. Another classmate who is my age is planning on taking a year off after 3rd year to have a kid, so there's that option too. I just don't want to delay graduation any longer.
 
If I could go back in time, the best advice would be to be caught up with the day lecture. Did fine procrastinating in Anatomy being behind 3-4 days of lecture before an exam but it wasn't fine for the next block. LOL. I ended up doing fine but yeah don't be behind.

This x1000.

Good to see you, dude. Hope things are going well!

I'll hijack her thread to help give you an answer that's different from OP's.

I feel personally limited, but that pressure is internal and comes from the family dynamics that my husband & I want and the lifestyle we want to have. If you have a significant other and a family, it makes a difference. My mentor told me that often people tell med students (especially women!) that we shouldn't pick a specialty based on residency style and lifestyle as an attending - but she says that's bulls**t and that we definitely should keep those things in mind when we want families/have families. It's practical, not detrimental.

The kids question is one that goes through my head seemingly constantly. A few of my friends at school are a couple years older and plan on having kids during 4th year (what our dean advised us to do when we asked) and I think I might wait a few more years after that. I'll be ~33/34 with our current plan (and near the end of residency probably), but I'm also open to waiting longer and want to adopt at least one kid if we have kids. Another classmate who is my age is planning on taking a year off after 3rd year to have a kid, so there's that option too. I just don't want to delay graduation any longer.

Hijack away, haha. Everyone's going to have opinions based on their situation, mine is just mine. Always helps to hear more than one.
 
Rate the amount of info you have to take on in terms of something a working non trad can relate to, for example, "med school is about like working 40 hrs per week and taking 15 hrs" or something of that nature 😀

Here is an idea. Usually, a semester of undergrad for four classes is about 16 credits. My 1st semester of medical school is worth about 26-28 credits. My 2nd semester is worth about 34-36 credits.

We literally finished a block of Anatomy in 8 weeks.
 
Rate the amount of info you have to take on in terms of something a working non trad can relate to, for example, "med school is about like working 40 hrs per week and taking 15 hrs" or something of that nature 😀

It's kind of hard, because that sort of analogy isn't comparable. At one point in pre-med I was working two jobs and taking 12 credits, and this doesn't feel like that at all. In the working world you can compartmentalize your work and then your studies (and in undergrad let's be real, you can cram for a test the day before and be fine). Here you can't do any of that. Every six weeks or so you cover about two semester's worth or more of information. Each day has multiple lectures (usually about 4-6 per day at my school, YMMV), each on a new topic, many times things you've never learned before in your life. In undergrad each of these lectures alone would probably take a few days to cover. If you fall behind, you're screwed. There is no 'catch up the night before the exam'. It's just too much info. Not all of it is high-yield, but it's sometimes hard to tell what is and isn't.

Between those you have days of PBL, or early clinical time, or what have you, so it's not all in the classroom. But I find even on my 'early' days I'm anxious to get home and make sure I'm caught up and solidly reviewed. Before med school when I looked at people's schedules and saw they got out at noon every day I was like 'Wow, they have a lot of free time in med school.' I don't think that anymore, lol. Days when you're out at noon aren't vacation half-days, they're days I'm already thinking ahead to what I need to do that afternoon/night to be sure I've learned the last ten hours of lecture. Weekends aren't free time either, unless you have a memory of steel and don't need to be drilling the week's 20+ hours of material. It's definitely not unmanageable, but it's very challenging. In a much different way from work and undergrad.

If you go on the allopathic student forum you'll always see someone humblebragging about how it's like so not that hard guys amirite, and someone else going OH MY GAWD I CAN'T DEAL. How tough it is is pretty subjective, and at least in the beginning in basic sciences it's tied to how well you can absorb large about of stuff very quickly. Some people are better at it than others.
 
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How about this then: for every hr in class you spend__ hrs studying?

Monday to Friday, I'm usually done watching lectures by 2 or 3 pm (if I'm watching from home I can 1.5x speed most professors). From whenever I'm done til dinner is spent making my flashcards, drawing my diagrams, whatever is my most helpful strategy for that block. 30-45 minute break to cook and eat dinner. Then back to it until about 8 or 9 pm. Sometimes 10pm but I don't like to go straight from working to sleeping so I try to give myself a little decompression time.

Saturday and Sunday, how long was devoted to work really depended on the material. During anatomy when we had to spend time in the lab in order to really learn the material, we had lecture and dissections during the week which could end up being 6-8 hour days on campus before the home studying hours even got started, and I could easily spend 5-6 hours each weekend day on top of that between home and the lab. I knew people who were still in the lab at 10pm or midnight some days. In biochem, which I was already somewhat comfortable with from undergrad, I was often able to take an entire Saturday or Sunday off. In immuno/micro/path it ramped back up a little since much of the material was brand new for me.

So, it's hard to put a hard quantifier on X hrs of study per X hrs in class, because it does depend on your comfort level with the material and how fast you find what works for you (and the fact that some lectures will be more dense than others). One thing I can say is that you do have to budget your time wisely. If there's something I know I want to do on Saturday afternoon, I can almost always do it. But I have to assess how much I need to have solid by Sunday night and make a plan for my available study time. I've made some free time sacrifices, but honestly since anatomy (beast, yo) ended I've definitely felt challenged to maintain discipline, but not overwhelmed.

And of course disclaimer, this is only me. There are definitely people in my class who take entire weekends off and still perform just fine, and people who prefer to take the material at a different pace. I try to watch all the day's lectures and work on the material that day, but that doesn't work for everyone. If lectures are recorded there's a bit of flexibility if you have the discipline to play the necessary tetris with life and school.