NonTrad Life Advantages

[hamiltonnyc]

To start, a question I was wondering is if there are any benefits to being very non-traditional (i.e. career changer). If you were to do your walk again, would you choose to be premed in college?

I partly ask to find the silver lining, but also partly because after some soul searching I think I prefer having a life before pursuing medicine. Ironically, it took me this long (6 years from graduation) to fall on this path because I had prior believed that it was too late or not worth it now. But since I am only as far as enrolling in my first year of postbac, this could just be my deluding myself

The benefits I see, personally are:

1. More/Different goals and opportunities achieved. My understanding is for the most part, during and after MD, people are somewhat all in on that for a long time, since there is such a sacrifice to get there. I, on the other hand, have had the benefit of exploring a totally different career path, with all its upsides and downfalls. I've been able to take extended breaks to travel and learn and do random things. I've been able to practice a completely different skillset, which might add diversity to the field. Both personally and professionally, I feel more well rounded.

2. More perspectives. Because of the above, I also know more about myself and what I'm looking for in a job. With the highs of having more freedom and flexibility, I've also experienced the lows of not being motivated by something I believed in. And I think this context is something I can fall back on when times get hard.

3. Financially. This actually doesn't pertain to everyone, but I'm potentially forsaking a very lucrative career to pursue medicine. But as a result, I've had a good few years of savings, so even though switching to medicine will see my total net worth perpetually lower than if I stayed in my last career, I actually think it will be higher than if I pursued medicine from the start. I know this doesn't apply to everyone, but for those that it does, it's a reminder to count your blessings. On the other hand, it might come out to bite me personally because I no longer qualify for financial aid--whereas after graduation given my humble family background I would've qualified almost universally. But hey, I won't know unless I get to that stage, and we can omit the negatives and focus on the positives!

4. Higher chances. This is all speculation and not something I can say concretely (I'll personally know in a few years), but I feel like I stand out more now as a non-traditional and can better communicate my story. It's more time to be unique and impressive. I feel like I have more confidence in my narrative because I have more life experiences to back it up. I also feel like I have developed more of a skill set which will make me a better doctor. Finally, I think this might pay off in the long run because I might qualify more for merit scholarships? Also, even though tuition is rising, I'm hoping my timing is such that the NYU tuition waiver might spread to more colleges

How about you guys? Do you have any regrets not being a traditional student?

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[KiddCo]

I'm also about 6 years after undergrad. I agree with most, if not all the points you brought up. Did you go into a medicine related field during those years by chance? I personally did not.

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[Goro]

To start, a question I was wondering is if there are any benefits to being very non-traditional (i.e. career changer). If you were to do your walk again, would you choose to be premed in college?

I partly ask to find the silver lining, but also partly because after some soul searching I think I prefer having a life before pursuing medicine. Ironically, it took me this long (6 years from graduation) to fall on this path because I had prior believed that it was too late or not worth it now. But since I am only as far as enrolling in my first year of postbac, this could just be my deluding myself

The benefits I see, personally are:

1. More/Different goals and opportunities achieved. My understanding is for the most part, during and after MD, people are somewhat all in on that for a long time, since there is such a sacrifice to get there. I, on the other hand, have had the benefit of exploring a totally different career path, with all its upsides and downfalls. I've been able to take extended breaks to travel and learn and do random things. I've been able to practice a completely different skillset, which might add diversity to the field. Both personally and professionally, I feel more well rounded.

2. More perspectives. Because of the above, I also know more about myself and what I'm looking for in a job. With the highs of having more freedom and flexibility, I've also experienced the lows of not being motivated by something I believed in. And I think this context is something I can fall back on when times get hard.

3. Financially. This actually doesn't pertain to everyone, but I'm potentially forsaking a very lucrative career to pursue medicine. But as a result, I've had a good few years of savings, so even though switching to medicine will see my total net worth perpetually lower than if I stayed in my last career, I actually think it will be higher than if I pursued medicine from the start. I know this doesn't apply to everyone, but for those that it does, it's a reminder to count your blessings. On the other hand, it might come out to bite me personally because I no longer qualify for financial aid--whereas after graduation given my humble family background I would've qualified almost universally. But hey, I won't know unless I get to that stage, and we can omit the negatives and focus on the positives!

4. Higher chances. This is all speculation and not something I can say concretely (I'll personally know in a few years), but I feel like I stand out more now as a non-traditional and can better communicate my story. It's more time to be unique and impressive. I feel like I have more confidence in my narrative because I have more life experiences to back it up. I also feel like I have developed more of a skill set which will make me a better doctor. Finally, I think this might pay off in the long run because I might qualify more for merit scholarships? Also, even though tuition is rising, I'm hoping my timing is such that the NYU tuition waiver might spread to more colleges

How about you guys? Do you have any regrets not being a traditional student?

1 and 2 are why we Adcoms like non-trad candidates. 3 helps you, but I don't being a non-trad per se may help unless you have a good app. One always needs a good app. But sometimes that path taken in life is an EC in and of itself.

Don't hold your breath for the NYU tuition waiver to expand anytime soon, and the first schools that will jump on that bandwagon will be NYU class schools. Most of them don't seem to be non-trad friendly, except Yale, Columbia, Pitt, Mayo, UCSF and Dartmouth. We're talking needing some half-a-billion (yes, with a B) endowment in order to generate that funding in perpetuity.

 

[hamiltonnyc]

I'm also about 6 years after undergrad. I agree with most, if not all the points you brought up. Did you go into a medicine related field during those years by chance? I personally did not.

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Yeah I was in tech (with some health tech), but nothing related to medicine directly. This'll be fun! What about you?

 

[hamiltonnyc]

Don't hold your breath for the NYU tuition waiver to expand anytime soon, and the first schools that will jump on that bandwagon will be NYU class schools. Most of them don't seem to be non-trad friendly, except Yale, Columbia, Pitt, Mayo, UCSF and Dartmouth. We're talking needing some half-a-billion (yes, with a B) endowment in order to generate that funding in perpetuity.

Yeah I always shoot for the stars, so that caliber of school is what I'm aiming for

I actually think (and this could be my bias) but more schools are getting friendlier to non-trad, and the list might be longer than that (e.g. UMich). To be fair, it'll be cool if more schools wipe away tuition, but I actually don't think it's necessary or good for society. I'm not sure if these students will go to lower paying specialties (a underlying premise for the change), and I'm not sure if they'll need it. I only think the cost should be a lot less than 60k, like 10k-20k, and it seems like if nothing this might cause more competition in scholarships. This might be my pronoia, but I just think the trends are lookin' good haha.

 

[Goro]

Yeah I always shoot for the stars, so that caliber of school is what I'm aiming for

I actually think (and this could be my bias) but more schools are getting friendlier to non-trad, and the list might be longer than that (e.g. UMich). To be fair, it'll be cool if more schools wipe away tuition, but I actually don't think it's necessary or good for society. I'm not sure if these students will go to lower paying specialties (a underlying premise for the change), and I'm not sure if they'll need it. I only think the cost should be a lot less than 60k, like 10k-20k, and it seems like if nothing this might cause more competition in scholarships. This might be my pronoia, but I just think the trends are lookin' good haha.

We won't know the results of the "no tuition = more PC docs" idea until we see the match list of 2022.

I also believe that schools may very well get more friendly to non-tds, because a pernicious theme we're seeing over the past several years is that students on rotation and residents simply lack good employment skills, like they ask for vacation after being ont he job for a week.

For many graduates nowadays, being a resident is the first employment these people have ever had.

Me personally, I'd like to see as a requirement that all students have a year's worth of employment, and not in mom/dad's business either.

 

[KiddCo]

Yeah I was in tech (with some health tech), but nothing related to medicine directly. This'll be fun! What about you?

Worked as a Quality Assurance Tech in a Brewery lab out of college. Then managed a Quality Control Lab for a large plastics company.
I'm unemployed for the moment, as I've been moving around the country with my Fiancee. We'll be in Tampa for about 9 months in the middle of September, so I'll be trying to get a job Scribing or something healthcare related while down there.

 

[DrElliotReid]

We won't know the results of the "no tuition = more PC docs" idea until we see the match list of 2022.

I also believe that schools may very well get more friendly to non-tds, because a pernicious theme we're seeing over the past several years is that students on rotation and residents simply lack good employment skills, like they ask for vacation after being ont he job for a week.

For many graduates nowadays, being a resident is the first employment these people have ever had.

Me personally, I'd like to see as a requirement that all students have a year's worth of employment, and not in mom/dad's business either.

I don’t know about making it a requirement, i think it would be difficult for some to do if they’re extremely dedicated and active with extracurriculars. Maybe more of a highly recommend

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

Yeah I always shoot for the stars, so that caliber of school is what I'm aiming for

I actually think (and this could be my bias) but more schools are getting friendlier to non-trad, and the list might be longer than that (e.g. UMich). To be fair, it'll be cool if more schools wipe away tuition, but I actually don't think it's necessary or good for society. I'm not sure if these students will go to lower paying specialties (a underlying premise for the change), and I'm not sure if they'll need it. I only think the cost should be a lot less than 60k, like 10k-20k, and it seems like if nothing this might cause more competition in scholarships. This might be my pronoia, but I just think the trends are lookin' good haha.

It is definitely good for society to lower or waive tuition. The cost of attending college and medical school in this country is outrageous. While it may not mean a lot more PC docs, there are non-PC specialties that pay less as well. When finances aren’t a factor, people are free to go into what they love without fear of not being able to pay back their loans. Maybe they don’t love primary care, but they might love something else instead of just going for cards or GI.

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

As to the other stuff, I’m happy to be a non-trad. I have great life experience I wouldn’t have otherwise (and a family that I probably wouldn’t have). The only thing I’d do differently is to take school more seriously or recognize earlier that I needed to take time off to think about what I want out of it.

 

[Goro]

Reading this actually made me raise my eyebrows and question if this was real. To be fair, I have seen coworkers who demand an hour lunch break for six hours scheduled; however, I also know these coworkers to have sh**ty work ethics and would expect more from the cream of the crop that med students and doctors are.

It's very real, believe me.

 

[hamiltonnyc]

It is definitely good for society to lower or waive tuition. The cost of attending college and medical school in this country is outrageous. While it may not mean a lot more PC docs, there are non-PC specialties that pay less as well. When finances aren’t a factor, people are free to go into what they love without fear of not being able to pay back their loans. Maybe they don’t love primary care, but they might love something else instead of just going for cards or GI.

Yeah I agree that the cost is outrageous, and it should go down across the board. However, I and many people feel that a top institution like NYU's tuition waiver was the wrong place for that experiment. If I were to guess, we won't see much of a difference between the matches of the classes. Maybe a handful here and there, but by and large elite students tend to do elite things. But I would love to be wrong, and would love for tuition to go down in every school!

 

[hamiltonnyc]

A point that I had not considered is that the longer I wait to apply, the more competitive the applicant pool will be as well haha. Oh well, such is life.

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

Yeah I agree that the cost is outrageous, and it should go down across the board. However, I and many people feel that a top institution like NYU's tuition waiver was the wrong place for that experiment. If I were to guess, we won't see much of a difference between the matches of the classes. Maybe a handful here and there, but by and large elite students tend to do elite things. But I would love to be wrong, and would love for tuition to go down in every school!

I’m betting it changes but not dramatically. And I’m betting as many people go into lower paying subspecialties as primary care.

But as was said, for a school to do this, it has to have billions of dollars around, so by nature it will be a top school.

Also, apparently to get the tuition waiver you have to agree to practice in NY for 2 years. I think I read that in the press release.

 

[hamiltonnyc]

Also, apparently to get the tuition waiver you have to agree to practice in NY for 2 years. I think I read that in the press release.

Interesting, I've read probably 20 articles on this and also looked at their financial site, didn't see any mention of that. I also would find it unusual since NYU is a private institution, but I wouldn't complain I'd love to work in NY haha.

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

Interesting, I've read probably 20 articles on this and also looked at their financial site, didn't see any mention of that. I also would find it unusual since NYU is a private institution, but I wouldn't complain I'd love to work in NY haha.

I’ll double check and post the link if I can find it.

Edit: I can’t find it now and it’s not on their actual press release, so I’m guessing where I read that got it wrong and edited their article.

 

[Rcola23]

I grew up in North Dakota and, although not an endowment, the University of North Dakota has had a similar scholarship for anyone going into FM for years. There are some pretty strict stipulations if I remember - you must practice in ND for x years, must have ND family ties, must have lived in the state for x amount of years, etc.

I just had lunch with the administrator of a large hospital association a couple of weeks ago. She told me that due to the FM shortage, they are contemplating paying for student's Med School if they agree to go into FM and work for them for 5 years. I believe they are also going to pay some monthly stipend as well. Her assumption is that this will end up becoming the norm, or the Govt. will have to get involved - which typically only happens once something is at crisis level.

It is interesting that NYU is not doing this "needs" based. My hunch is, like was said before, it will just make NYU even more of an elite school to go to and will catapult applications from which they will pick the cream of the crop.

 

[gollypogs]

I'm a nontrad in my first year, and honestly I am very happy about the path I've taken. I felt nervous about it prior to starting school, but now that I'm getting into the thick of it, I can hardly imagine coming straight into med school from undergrad. I think my "real world" experiences gave me both stronger direction and more realistic ideas about what to expect from med school and my future career.

As far as whether it increases your chances, I think it depends a lot on your application as a whole and the particular schools that you apply to.

 

[GenSurgONLY]

We won't know the results of the "no tuition = more PC docs" idea until we see the match list of 2022.

I also believe that schools may very well get more friendly to non-tds, because a pernicious theme we're seeing over the past several years is that students on rotation and residents simply lack good employment skills, like they ask for vacation after being ont he job for a week.

For many graduates nowadays, being a resident is the first employment these people have ever had.

Me personally, I'd like to see as a requirement that all students have a year's worth of employment, and not in mom/dad's business either.

Exactly! What some trads consider to be “hard” just blows my mind. It could because I have worked a real job since HS and raise 3 children. I have always had to function off of less than 8 hours of sleep so sleep deprivation is not an end all for me personally.

I mean, I know some in med and nursing school that have NEVER held a real job outside of “volunteering” if that before. I am talking about 22+ yo and haven’t even worked a PT job and yet their applications look more desirable because they fit the cookie cutter admin profile.

Some of us don’t have 4.0 gpa undergrads because we have families, work FT and take a full class load. Sorry, I’m ranting. Definitely agree with what you said. If anything, a non trad has accomplished more because they are still taking the same coursework, MCATs, volunteering in addition to having a family and a career for years(I’m a little bias to non trads, Lol).