Indebt4Life

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If anyone on here wants to join a grassroot group of physicians that are taking on the erosion of medicine by midlevels and corporations, please PM me. Medstudents can join for free. You will be thoroughly vetted since we only allow physicians and future physicians in our private group.
 

btbam

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If anyone on here wants to join a grassroot group of physicians that are taking on the erosion of medicine by midlevels and corporations, please PM me. Medstudents can join for free. You will be thoroughly vetted since we only allow physicians and future physicians in our private group.
Sounds cool. Are there like leather biker jackets with logos on the back? Gang initiation?
 

GA8314

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I was thinking that the ASA contributed to this with the whole "Physician Anesthesiologist" moniker.
At the time they started this I saiid why put physician in front of it. Is there any other kind of Anesthesiologist. I guess on august 10 2019 there will be. Shameful really
It's hard to tell if this was organic or a take off from "physician anesthesiologists". I battled a CRNA on (I think Becker's) one time, where I challenged his use of "Nurse Anesthesiologist" and he kept saying we don't own that term and that term is for people who study, in depth, the science of anesthesia etc etc.

They can be so frustrating...... Exhausting really.
 

Mr.S

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If anyone on here wants to join a grassroot group of physicians that are taking on the erosion of medicine by midlevels and corporations, please PM me. Medstudents can join for free. You will be thoroughly vetted since we only allow physicians and future physicians in our private group.
No need to start a grassroots group. Just make sure NOBODY joins the ASA. Encourage people to drop their membership.When they find out they have no money, they will understand. It is really very simple. Why keep giving money to an organization that does not support you. Still Radio Silence from THE ASA.


They have a lot of money to update this modern building while abdicating thier responsibilites
 
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Indebt4Life

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So your solution is to not do anything. Money collected from our grassroot group goes towards pro-physician agenda. All money is accounted for. And our board is unpaid volunteers. Many of us are like you and have grown tired of these large organizations like ama and asa that do absolutely nothing to protect physicians and allow medicine to be governed by suits with MBAs
 
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Indebt4Life

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Ha! No biker gang. Although I also think that's cool. I just need to post that for the midlevels (especially students) who try to infiltrate our group.
 

Mr.S

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it appears this go fund me page is NOT sponsored or affiliated with the AANA (anesthetist). time will tell. It says it is spearheaded by Joe Rodriguez CRNA who states on his linkedin page that he is THE Medical Director of Tri city surgical center in Arizona and managing partner at arizona anesthesia solutions. It certainly looks real.... But impressively, he raised 22K in not even 2 days..

Blade how did you find the page?

Still radio silence from ASA.
 
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Tri-City Surgery Center - FAQs

Who administers anesthesia?
Anesthetics are administered by contracted anesthesia providers, which include anesthesiologists and Certified Registered Nurse Anesthetists (CRNA) who work closely together in providing you with the highest level of care.

Will I get to speak with the person doing my anesthesia before my surgery?
Yes. On the day of surgery your anesthesia provider will review your medical history and explain their plan for your care. You will have the opportunity to have all of your questions or concerns addressed at that time. Please contact the facility if you have concerns that need to be addressed prior to the day of surgery.


"His" own website doesnt even agree with him. As medical director of his surgery center he should probably address his website. Even if AZ allows independent practice I doubt they let CRNAs pretend to be a medical director. Definitely could own one but typically a medical director is utilized at facilities owned by a non allopathic or osteopathic doc.
 

Modanq

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Honestly this is so left field and ridiculous Im not even sure where to begin.
There is so much at stake with a definition...
We are seeing this eroded day in and day out. There are the 3 month advanced nurse practice fellows...Lol, there are the 6 week RN residencies...Lol.
It comes down to teaching, knowledge and public perception. Somehow, people and the public perceives that a surgeon should do an operation but its equally ok for a ED PA to work up abdominal pain...or a CRNA to manage intraop hypotension.

If all these midlevels want independence then have at it. CRNA mills are popping up everywhere. There is a reason it takes so frikkin long to train as an MD.
Funny thing is the longer you practice the more you realize how little you know and outcomes you can predict.
 

drmwvr

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Honestly this is so left field and ridiculous Im not even sure where to begin.
There is so much at stake with a definition...
This goes so far beyond this issue...there is a cultural tyranny of the irrational that has overwhelmed this country in less than 15 years. Again, just a symptom, but if you want to talk about incoherent appropriation of a definition, nurses calling themselves doctors in general or anesthesiologists in particular should come as no surprise when an institution as ancient as 'marriage' or the identity of male and female is completely up for grabs...

We ain't seen nothing yet...
 

Hork Bajir

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nurses calling themselves doctors in general or anesthesiologists in particular should come as no surprise when an institution as ancient as 'marriage' or the identity of male and female is completely up for grabs...
So you’re defending your professional identity by making vague homophobic and transphobic remarks? Seems like a winning strategy.
 

Modanq

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This goes so far beyond this issue...there is a cultural tyranny of the irrational that has overwhelmed this country in less than 15 years. Again, just a symptom, but if you want to talk about incoherent appropriation of a definition, nurses calling themselves doctors in general or anesthesiologists in particular should come as no surprise when an institution as ancient as 'marriage' or the identity of male and female is completely up for grabs...

We ain't seen nothing yet...
Woah...thats not a cool or acceptable comment for SDN.

I think what is open for debate is the idea of knowledge and scholarship. TBH, there are alot of people who accept CRNA level care for their anesthetic. The question do we still need to being a gun to the knife fight...meaning sure prob some anesthetics a nurse with supervision is fine to turn on and off the iso.
I cant be bothered with a CRNA sitting an eye case. What we need to think about is what our gun looks like... if you look at any of my posts you can see that I a big advocate for doing our own trachs, ECMO, neuromonitoring, Vascular catheter access, interventional TEE, because in the end the perception is what you define anesthesiology as...when everyone and their mother knows you are part of the TEE team or trach/airway team then you have gone in a territory where no RN can follow you.
 

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I cant be bothered with a CRNA sitting an eye case. What we need to think about is what our gun looks like... if you look at any of my posts you can see that I a big advocate for doing our own trachs, ECMO, neuromonitoring, Vascular catheter access, interventional TEE, because in the end the perception is what you define anesthesiology as...when everyone and their mother knows you are part of the TEE team or trach/airway team then you have gone in a territory where no RN can follow you.
So the solution is extending into other specialties' jobs? Because none of these sound like anesthesiology to me.

I'd rather do PSH and be a doctor, than a proceduralist monkey, as above.
 

Modanq

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So the solution is extending into other specialties' jobs? Because none of these sound like anesthesiology to me.

I'd rather do PSH and be a doctor, than a proceduralist monkey, as above.
What is anesthesiology then?
 

Modanq

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So the solution is extending into other specialties' jobs? Because none of these sound like anesthesiology to me.

I'd rather do PSH and be a doctor, than a proceduralist monkey, as above.
I would say most of it depends on perception and reimbursement anyways.
 

Mr.S

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By the way, they are still donating money. They reached their goal quickly
 
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Cosmetic Surgery Team in Santa Barbara CA

Hubby supervising the "nurse anesthesiologist"

Better get AAs in every state and donate to the ASA because they are your only PAC around. "Nurse Anesthesiologists" everywhere trying to deceive the public about you and AAs and your only hope is political action or just do pain where those frauds will get run out of the hospital.

Im not going to act like this is some liberal vs conservative thing but it is very Randian and Orwellian. Ellsworth "joe rod" Toohey trying to raze all shrines by raising all shrines.

"But if thought corrupts language, language can also corrupt thought."

And in regards to their MISSION to stigmatize and delegitamize AAs

"Doublethink means the power of holding two contradictory beliefs in one's mind simultaneously, and accepting both of them."
 

Mr.S

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nothing like a warm smile and soothing hand to ensure you have the best experience. what the ****
 

mmag

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Anyone wanting to Santorum the term nurse anesthesiologist?
 

Hork Bajir

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Saying that you have thick skin bc you’re not bothered by xenophobic comments which aren’t targeted at you- or implying that others have thin skin for calling someone out on their intolerant bull****- doesn’t do anything but prove you have a thick skull.

No disrespect intended, I know I’m new to this forum and I’m really not trying to get into it with strangers in the internet. But seriously, it’s 2019 and those kinds of comments aren’t OK anymore. Call me a snowflake all you want, I promise I won’t melt.
 

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Wiseguy
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What is anesthesiology then?
To quote Wikipedia, anesthesiology "comprises the use of various injected and inhaled medications to produce a loss of sensation in patients, making it possible to carry out procedures that would otherwise cause intolerable pain or be technically unfeasible".
 
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abolt18

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Saying that you have thick skin bc you’re not bothered by xenophobic comments which aren’t targeted at you- or implying that others have thin skin for calling someone out on their intolerant bull****- doesn’t do anything but prove you have a thick skull.

No disrespect intended, I know I’m new to this forum and I’m really not trying to get into it with strangers in the internet. But seriously, it’s 2019 and those kinds of comments aren’t OK anymore. Call me a snowflake all you want, I promise I won’t melt.
Welcome to the Anesthesia forum. Where people say what they think and we all still get along despite our differences. (At least reasonably well)
 
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So the solution is extending into other specialties' jobs? Because none of these sound like anesthesiology to me.

I'd rather do PSH and be a doctor, than a proceduralist monkey, as above.
I think you'd make more as the procedure monkey than as the doctor. Which is why CRNAs are smart: they are pushing to do procedures and make the big bucks. While we convince ourselves we are "the doctors" and do H+Ps and preop clinic and move further and further away from OR anesthesia...
 

Man o War

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Saying that you have thick skin bc you’re not bothered by xenophobic comments which aren’t targeted at you- or implying that others have thin skin for calling someone out on their intolerant bull****- doesn’t do anything but prove you have a thick skull.

No disrespect intended, I know I’m new to this forum and I’m really not trying to get into it with strangers in the internet. But seriously, it’s 2019 and those kinds of comments aren’t OK anymore. Call me a snowflake all you want, I promise I won’t melt.
Good grief.
Respectfully, can you please stop with this stuff here? I love the anesthesia forum because nobody does this stuff here. I think we all understood what the poster meant.
 

Hork Bajir

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I love the anesthesia forum because nobody does this stuff here. I think we all understood what the poster meant.
We do? I’m honestly a little surprised that so many on here are OK with casual homophobia. Like I said, I’m new here, not trying to change the rules- you can love the anesthesia forum for whatever reasons you like. I joined for the interesting conversation, discussion of cases, sharing professional knowledge.

I don’t think any further discussion on this thread is going to be helpful for me or anyone, so I’m going to respectfully bow out. Looking forward to more of the kinds of discussions that I joined this forum for.
 
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Wiseguy
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I think you'd make more as the procedure monkey than as the doctor. Which is why CRNAs are smart: they are pushing to do procedures and make the big bucks. While we convince ourselves we are "the doctors" and do H+Ps and preop clinic and move further and further away from OR anesthesia...
And if we learn how to do Botox injections, we'll probably make even more. :)

Personally, I am sure I would be happier to do procedures if they translated into serious money FOR ME. I honestly don't expect those 2 conditions to be met in the future, hence I enjoy more playing doctor.
 
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Man o War

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Cosmetic Surgery Team in Santa Barbara CA

Hubby supervising the "nurse anesthesiologist"

Better get AAs in every state and donate to the ASA because they are your only PAC around. "Nurse Anesthesiologists" everywhere trying to deceive the public about you and AAs and your only hope is political action or just do pain where those frauds will get run out of the hospital.

Im not going to act like this is some liberal vs conservative thing but it is very Randian and Orwellian. Ellsworth "joe rod" Toohey trying to raze all shrines by raising all shrines.

"But if thought corrupts language, language can also corrupt thought."

And in regards to their MISSION to stigmatize and delegitamize AAs

"Doublethink means the power of holding two contradictory beliefs in one's mind simultaneously, and accepting both of them."
We had a plastic surgeon with this arrangement once. He brought his non cosmetic plastics cases and call dumps to the hospital and let his wife do the anesthesia in the office/surgery center for the rest. As soon as he traded her in for a new model, he asked us to cover his surgery center.
Of course we will never know why that was, I’m sure he had some anesthesia related issues that will never see the light of day, but I’m sure he enjoyed that anesthesia billing while he had it to spend.
 

dhb

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I think you'd make more as the procedure monkey than as the doctor. Which is why CRNAs are smart: they are pushing to do procedures and make the big bucks. While we convince ourselves we are "the doctors" and do H+Ps and preop clinic and move further and further away from OR anesthesia...
I make between 2 and 300/h seeing patients in the pre-op clinic so it's not necessarily true but i'd rather be in the OR.
 

<(^_^)>

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Agreed with what has been said about ASA. Yes they need to be more aggressive, but hating on them for talking about expanding AAs isn’t productive. The reality is the cat is out of the bag so to speak. Just because you would prefer a situation where CRNAs don’t exist doesn’t mean there is a chance that could ever happen. There’s only one game in town as far as I can tell. If someone knows of another group to donate to, let me know. Until then the ASA is as good as it gets.

I’ve worked with plenty of solid mid-levels that just want to do their job, safely, under supervision and don’t want to play doctor. However until/unless the AANA settles down it’s reasonable to advocate for training more supervision only mid-levels. Hey, who knows, it might even result in internal blowback as CRNAs realize they’re largely biting the hands that feeds them as cheaper AAs supervised by MDs take their bread and butter cases.
 

Indebt4Life

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Are you a medical student, resident or attending. What you are doing sounds interesting.
I am an attending. Most of the leadership is but we also work with medical students and residents.

We are just sick of the silence from our organizations.
 

Indebt4Life

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Agreed with what has been said about ASA. Yes they need to be more aggressive, but hating on them for talking about expanding AAs isn’t productive. The reality is the cat is out of the bag so to speak. Just because you would prefer a situation where CRNAs don’t exist doesn’t mean there is a chance that could ever happen. There’s only one game in town as far as I can tell. If someone knows of another group to donate to, let me know. Until then the ASA is as good as it gets.

I’ve worked with plenty of solid mid-levels that just want to do their job, safely, under supervision and don’t want to play doctor. However until/unless the AANA settles down it’s reasonable to advocate for training more supervision only mid-levels. Hey, who knows, it might even result in internal blowback as CRNAs realize they’re largely biting the hands that feeds them as cheaper AAs supervised by MDs take their bread and butter cases.
You can join us!
 

Indebt4Life

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have you heard about CRNAs running ketamine infusion clinics for severe depression not responding to meds? There is one guy relating jesus christ to his ketamine infusion clinic. Apparently the crnas are not doing psychiatry
 

Steve_Zissou

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I didn't read it that way.
Is skin thickness a racial criteria? I might be discriminated for having it too thick :=|:-):
I'm lost. How does not recognizing that his remarks are meant to disparage gay marriage and transgender people make you thick skinned? Doesn't that just make you thick skulled?
 

Steve_Zissou

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So you’re defending your professional identity by making vague homophobic and transphobic remarks? Seems like a winning strategy.
It’s also a **** argument. Equating the changing of old institutions to the changing of a more current one doesn’t say anything about whether it’s good or bad. He’s right that marriage and gender are ancient institutions that are being redefined, for the better IMO, but we’ve also gotten rid of even older institutions in the past (see slavery, monarchy, etc) because changing or removing them completely was for the better.

We could argue all day about semantics and how words are defined but that would likely be pointless.
 

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Billabong911

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Why are you guys giving this attention? Stress 'Physician", who cares what anyone else calls themselves?
 
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Man o War

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First time long time again

Why are you guys giving this attention? Stress 'Physician", who cares what anyone else calls themselves?
This is so true. And honestly that “nurse” in their name is what stands out. Do you think most people even notice “anesthetist” vs “anesthesiologist”? Nope. Most certainly can’t pronounce either one.
Patients know doctor and nurse for the most part. Anything else is lost.
 

Steve_Zissou

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Mr.S

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This is so true. And honestly that “nurse” in their name is what stands out. Do you think most people even notice “anesthetist” vs “anesthesiologist”? Nope. Most certainly can’t pronounce either one.
Patients know doctor and nurse for the most part. Anything else is lost.
You are absolutely clueless.
Eventually they will drop the nurse part and call themselves "anesthesiologist
Dont leave it up to the leaders to solve.
leaders dont lead, they generally follow. At least ours do.
 

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@Mr.S is right. CRNAs already introduce themselves as anesthetists, dropping the nurse prefix, and I have already had patients ask me about the difference between an anesthetist and an anesthesiologist. Last one 2 weeks ago. They don't notice that I introduce myself as Dr. FFP, because they are swamped with all these new faces on the day of surgery.

CRNAs can play the "anesthetist" or the "from anesthesia" card not because of the ASA, but because of gutless, spineless department heads who don't write clear policies about this.

And I honestly can't understand why hospital-employed physicians are stupid ****s and don't unionize, like nurses ages ago.
 
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have you heard about CRNAs running ketamine infusion clinics for severe depression not responding to meds? There is one guy relating jesus christ to his ketamine infusion clinic. Apparently the crnas are not doing psychiatry
A CRNA was bragging to my wife at work how she gets paid for Florida psychiatrists to do Ketamine infusions that they bill using her provider number...sounds so fraudulent.
 
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This is so true. And honestly that “nurse” in their name is what stands out. Do you think most people even notice “anesthetist” vs “anesthesiologist”? Nope. Most certainly can’t pronounce either one.
Patients know doctor and nurse for the most part. Anything else is lost.
I think the nurses calling themselves anesthesiologists are likely introducing themselves as Doctor so and so once they get their DNP add on degree. Its unfortunate because CRNAs (and AAs) in general are great providers and deserve recognition but the ones trying to blur the lines to patients on who is who are spoiling the whole bunch and almsot all of them give to the AANA who advocates against equally trained AAs and try to paint them as glorified anesthesia techs.