Law2Doc

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Well, there are bound to be parts of the country where people just don't want to work. How much worse is the nursing shortage than the doctors shortage in these areas?
Nursing shortage >>>>> doctor shortage. It's not exactly news, this shortage has been building for years.
 

tncekm

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Well, maybe you can explain this for me.

Jobs in Short Supply for Nurses Across the U.S. -- Some Specialized Positions Available

A lot has been written about the nurse shortage. But right now it's more of a nurse job shortage in many places across the United States.

Once thought to be recession-proof, nursing has become the latest victim of the economic downturn. Many hospitals are reporting RN vacancy and turnover rates of less than 2%.

Although the economy is improving, nursing is a lagging indicator and the tight job market is not getting better. Most recruiters are not venturing a guess as to when it might loosen up.

"Vacancies are very low right now in most of the country," said Terry Bennett, RN, BSN, CHCR, director of nurse recruitment at Johns Hopkins Bayview Medical Center in Baltimore.

Ream more: http://www.medhunters.com/articles/nurseJobsInShortSupply.html
 
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Law2Doc

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Well, maybe you can explain this for me.
Simple -- question the source. That's a recruiter website. They only make money if they make you think you need their help. That's hard to do when nurses know there's a shortage and that if you pick up the phone to any hospital you can get a job without a recruiter. So they publish self serving articles, light on facts, heavy on anecdote. Just because you find it on the net doesn't make it true.
 

tncekm

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Simple -- question the source. That's a recruiter website. They only make money if they make you think you need their help. That's hard to do when nurses know there's a shortage and that if you pick up the phone to any hospital you can get a job without a recruiter. So they publish self serving articles, light on facts, heavy on anecdote. Just because you find it on the net doesn't make it true.
It's all over the place. Not just recruiter websites. I can keep pulling these news articles all night. It's not 2005 anymore, and whether or not there is a hypothetical "nursing shortage", jobs are a different story for the time being.

http://www.firstcoastnews.com/news/topstories/news-article.aspx?storyid=154330&catid=3

http://www.nashuatelegraph.com/business/675345-192/new-nursing-grads-caught-in-jobs-bind.html

http://www.citytowninfo.com/career-and-education-news/articles/nursing-grads-face-hiring-obstacles-10032201

Anyway, I really don't care that much. I'm not looking for a nursing job. I was just responding to that persons post about "supply and demand".
 
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Law2Doc

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It's all over the place. Not just recruiter websites. I can keep pulling these news articles all night. It's not 2005 anymore, and whether or not there is a hypothetical "nursing shortage", jobs are a different story for the time being.

http://www.firstcoastnews.com/news/topstories/news-article.aspx?storyid=154330&catid=3

http://www.nashuatelegraph.com/business/675345-192/new-nursing-grads-caught-in-jobs-bind.html

http://www.citytowninfo.com/career-and-education-news/articles/nursing-grads-face-hiring-obstacles-10032201

Anyway, I really don't care that much. I'm not looking for a nursing job. I was just responding to that persons post about "supply and demand".

I don't know man, if you use a search engine and type in Nursing Shortage 2010 you find quite a few publications, including government publications that suggest your articles aren't accurate on a national basis. (And again, the last article you cited above is on a recruiter page -- these don't count as "articles" -- it's a self serving ad just like the other).
 

tncekm

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I don't know man, if you use a search engine and type in Nursing Shortage 2010 you find quite a few publications, including government publications that suggest your articles aren't accurate on a national basis. (And again, the last article you cited above is on a recruiter page -- these don't count as "articles" -- it's a self serving ad just like the other).
I understand that there is a hypothetical shortage. I.e. we feel we need X amount of nurses per patient. But, that's sort of limited by what the system can financially support. Right now it looks like the bank is tapped in many areas. Sure there are places that are hiring, but the reality is it's very tough for nurses to find jobs in many parts of the nation right now.

Again, I know first hand that southern California is really hurting. I've got several hometown friends who have graduated from nursing school (different schools in different areas) and they (and their classmates) are having a hell of a time finding jobs. It's probably temporary, but it still sucks right "now".
 
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AbbyNormal

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I belong to AACN and I understand that there has been waxing and waning and if I understand correctly the shortage at this very moment is not as severe as it was about fifteen years ago or so - can't remember exactly what year, just remember jubilation in the unit when all the nurses in the hospital got a $3.50/hour across the board raise. They predict shortage to be significant in about twenty years I believe.

Here is one of their statements but it is tl/dr for me right now -
http://www.aacn.nche.edu/Media/FactSheets/NursingShortage.htm
 
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Eta Carinae

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I am not sure I understand what you mean. You don't want to associate with nurses when at work?

It is not often that nurses or residents have much extra time to just hang out but I remember a quiet night shift in 1987. A resident and I were fond of each other and she asked if I would like to go down to radiology to learn a bit about interpreting xrays. I am no expert but now I can recognize pneumothorax, know the difference between pleural effusion and pulmonary edema, can tell if an ETT is properly placed, et cetera. I would never ever "diagnose" a CXR but if I see a problem now I know when to call the physician at 2am because my patient needs a chest tube that can't wait til morning (of course correlate with clinical assessment such as no breath sounds on one side). Sometimes I'll call a resident who can diagnose a problem if I see something that is suspicious. I am glad my resident friend didn't mind consorting with me.

You call it consorting. I call it being a team.

If I have misunderstood you I apologize.
consort
consult

consort
collaborate
 

Eta Carinae

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... if people are becoming increasingly entitled, or people are becoming more reluctant to think for themselves and less willing to take responsibility for their actions. Some veteran nurses have told me that they feel like patients are becoming more entitled

Originally Posted by fab4fan
And they should be held accountable for that, smq. I really don't get that behavior, at all. If you were ever called to account for doing that, how would you explain yourself? Do we have a generation of crybabies taking over the nursing profession? Seriously, get a grip. (Not you, smq, the bomb-pagers.)
:thumbup:

For a good while there I was starting to think I was the only one running into these sorts of patients.
 

AbbyNormal

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consort
consult

consort
collaborate
I am pretty sure that I don't understand what you mean.

dictionary.com says

consort:
to associate; keep company
to agree or harmonize



But anyway I looked up your user name to see what that meant. Very cool. :) I like cosmology.
 

Buzz Me

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I belong to AACN and I understand that there has been waxing and waning and if I understand correctly the shortage at this very moment is not as severe as it was about fifteen years ago or so - can't remember exactly what year, just remember jubilation in the unit when all the nurses in the hospital got a $3.50/hour across the board raise.
That would be more than a 33% raise for us residents! :eek:
 

AbbyNormal

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That would be more than a 33% raise for us residents! :eek:
Yeah we were ecstatic. It was a pretty significant raise to us too. I dunno what I was making at the time but I recall starting as a new grad in 1986 I got $9/hour which was not incredibly higher than what I was making working as crew trainer at McDonalds while I was in nursing school.

McDonalds was interesting at times. One day I had a man ask me, well if your milk is 2% milk then what is the other 98%? He was serious. It was all I could do to not burst out laughing. :laugh:
 

JeffLebowski

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And this FIXED number of medical graduates eligible for residency positions exceeds the FIXED number of residency positions.

Keep arguing the unarguable. I've had to listen to pilots make the same arguments (and entry level pilots at regional carriers get paid substantially less than PGY-1's). It doesn't fly. As long as there are more people that are willing to take these positions at these salaries, there's no reason to increase them. (And when pilots make mistakes, dozens to hundreds of people die-- not 1.)

Dude, just stop. If there were 50,000 extra graduates every year applying for 20,000 positions, resident pay would be the same. If there were only 15,000 residents applying every year for 20,000 positions, resident pay would be the same. This is a controlled salary situation, we all make ~$45,000. Medicare funding to hospitals is what pays our salary and that is fixed. The number of people applying is fixed. The number of spots is fixed. It's not free market economics.

I agree with the posters who are saying resident salary vs. nurses salary is apples and oranges, really not an interesting discussion at all. The only reason I'm continuing to debate this with you is because you directly suggested that nursing school graduates are in short supply (which may be true, but you implied they were more valuable and underpaid) while medical school graduates are overabundant (and implied they were less valuable and overpaid, of all things). Overpaid? Is that a joke?
 

Maybeknot

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Dude, just stop. If there were 50,000 extra graduates every year applying for 20,000 positions, resident pay would be the same. If there were only 15,000 residents applying every year for 20,000 positions, resident pay would be the same.
El. Oh. El. So if 5000 spots were consistently unfilled, you think they wouldn't increase pay?

OK. You win this argument. Congrats.:rolleyes:
 

tncekm

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El. Oh. El. So if 5000 spots were consistently unfilled, you think they wouldn't increase pay?

OK. You win this argument. Congrats.:rolleyes:
They'd ship over more IMG's. There are more IMG's than conceivably empty spots :D
 

fab4fan

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I don't know man, if you use a search engine and type in Nursing Shortage 2010 you find quite a few publications, including government publications that suggest your articles aren't accurate on a national basis. (And again, the last article you cited above is on a recruiter page -- these don't count as "articles" -- it's a self serving ad just like the other).
It's both. Yes, there is a shortage, but most hospitals have put hiring freezes on d/t the economy. So while staffing may call for more nurses in many areas, there just aren't jobs to be had. The predicted major shortage from boomers retiring hasn't hit because many haven't retired yet, again, d/t the economy. You have nurses working past what they would have wanted to because they can't afford to quit.
 

fab4fan

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Yeah we were ecstatic. It was a pretty significant raise to us too. I dunno what I was making at the time but I recall starting as a new grad in 1986 I got $9/hour which was not incredibly higher than what I was making working as crew trainer at McDonalds while I was in nursing school.

McDonalds was interesting at times. One day I had a man ask me, well if your milk is 2% milk then what is the other 98%? He was serious. It was all I could do to not burst out laughing. :laugh:
GN 1985= $8.32. And I thought that was major bank. :rolleyes:
 

Buzz Me

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It's not that different these days!

Approx $42,000 per year, 49 weeks a year, 80 hours a week = $10.70 per hour

$8-9 an hour back in the 80s would be worth quite a bit now!
 

Blue Dog

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Resident pay is inappropriate. The lowest pgy1 should be paid higher than any nurse in the hospital (hour for hour).

Too bad it'll never happen.
 

fab4fan

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Originally Posted by fab4fan
Thank God I'm doing a little better than that. It wouldn't be worth the daily migraine.
And now you see why so many residents are depressed. :(
Never said residents didn't deserve to be paid better. (Isn't there a "sighing" smilie?)
 

zenman

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And now you see why so many residents are depressed. :(
And you ask why I'm in psych....so many customers...please pay cash and bill your insurance....

As a Psych NP student currently doing my preceptorship, I don't make a dime. Too bad; my choice.

I really like my doc preceptor and in spite of me knowing crap he must respect me a little as he's providing a great learning experience and both of us look for ways to help each other. Teamwork...yep.

I could take my little ole MBA and make big bucks but I prefer Hawaiian shirts to suits and ties. Besides I'm a smarta** and don't do well in corporate environments. Too bad;My choice.

Just float through life; it will happen no matter what you do.:laugh:
 

EctopicFetus

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Wow.. i remember all the whining about salary for residents. in the end its only 3-7 yrs. You chose this. If you were smart enough to get into med school you prob could have gotten into nursing school so stop whining. The money will come.. unless Obama gets it first.