Nurses can practice without physician supervision in many states

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You can assure whatever you want, but the truth is that nurses "enjoy what they do" so much that they are going to their nursing schools to do the job of physicians. You say a nurse will never fully replace a physician, but that's complete BS considering how many can practice independently and do so in many areas. They are replacing physicians. Plain and simple. Sure, you may feel your job is not on the line, and granted it will never be taken away, but you can thank the low pay and the cuts thanks to nurse practitioners now that you have to compete with them.

I hate to repeat myself but here goes:

If you feel that your practicing rights as a physician are being threatened by the practicing rights being lobbied for by DNPs or others than you were expecting to be a lazy doctor. There are still tons of things that only a physician will be able to do. If all you wanted to do was sit in your office and hand out antibiotics or prescribe basic medicine then you should get out of the premed world and go to DNP school. As a physician you are going to have to do WAY more than just that. I am not going to get into the details of their petition, I read the article, I have read these petitions before I already know what they say and there is nothing for the pemedical world to worry about. Stop whining, and stop looking down on your professional collegues.

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This is where it just gets sad. Have any of you ever looked at the requirements to get into nursing school? (Midwifery school is very different than nursing school btw)
I am not talking about the courses required, obviously they are lower division than med prereqs, but the GPA requirements are often higher than medical schools. Thats just for your basic RN. To get into a BSN, MSN, or DNP program is VERY competitive. Remember there are crap premeds out there too who still get into med school. Just because you talked to one nursing student who hadnt figured things out yet doesnt mean they are all like that anymore than one subpar premed represents all of us.

Dude what? An BSN (which is what most RNs who have a bachelors have) is an undergraduate degree and RN certification without majoring in nursing is comparable to an associate's degree. What GPA requirements are you talking about, high school? Quit pretending like it's hard to become an RN. Some of the dumbest girls in my high school majored in nursing.
 
Why does everyone assume that online courses are easy? When you are talking about graduate, professional classes it is very different than your little undergraduate courses. I find it funny that no one seems to care that people skip out on lecture during med school all the time. Thats pretty much the same as taking an online class (little instructure involvement and directed study), heck no one seems to mind the self-paced option offered at a lot of medical schools these days. These are FTF courses in name only! It is exactly the same concept as taking an online class.
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Uh because I don't walk out after Step 1 and say "alright that was some good self study time during the last couple years, time to start taking care of patients!".

Derp.
 
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Dude what? An BSN (which is what most RNs who have a bachelors have) is an undergraduate degree and RN certification without majoring in nursing is comparable to an associate's degree. What GPA requirements are you talking about, high school? Quit pretending like it's hard to become an RN. Some of the dumbest girls in my high school majored in nursing.

I will direct you to your caption under your name.

All nursing programs have prereqs. Your right getting an RN is an associates, but you still have to take classes before you are accepted. At my university it is a year of lower division biochem, anatomy, phys, pathophysiology, and nutrition. Do your research.
 
I hate to repeat myself but here goes:

If you feel that your practicing rights as a physician are being threatened by the practicing rights being lobbied for by DNPs or others than you were expecting to be a lazy doctor. There are still tons of things that only a physician will be able to do. If all you wanted to do was sit in your office and hand out antibiotics or prescribe basic medicine then you should get out of the premed world and go to DNP school. As a physician you are going to have to do WAY more than just that. I am not going to get into the details of their petition, I read the article, I have read these petitions before I already know what they say and there is nothing for the pemedical world to worry about. Stop whining, and stop looking down on your professional collegues.

Repeating drivel doesnt suddenly make it valid.
 
Uh because I don't walk out after Step 1 and say "alright that was some good self study time during the last couple years, time to start taking care of patients!".

Derp.

And you think a DNP does? At that point they have already completed their nursing degree and are required to have a number of hours of patient exposure from clinicals, and they are required to do so much time in ICU and surgery settings. Again do your research
 
I will direct you to your caption under your name.

All nursing programs have prereqs. Your right getting an RN is an associates, but you still have to take classes before you are accepted. At my university it is a year of lower division biochem, anatomy, phys, pathophysiology, and nutrition. Do your research.

Whoa you have to get a decent GPA in first year science classes to get into the UNDERGRAD program? Alright, you got me it's definitely more competitive that medical school.
 
And you think a DNP does? At that point they have already completed their nursing degree and are required to have a number of hours of patient exposure from clinicals, and they are required to do so much time in ICU and surgery settings. Again do your research

If their argument is that suddenly getting a DNP degree makes them able to practice independently then yes, yes that would be what they are arguing.

Look up the clinical hours requirements for DNPs. It's pitiful at most places, like 500 hours. We go through more hours in a semester of M3.
 
And you think a DNP does? At that point they have already completed their nursing degree and are required to have a number of hours of patient exposure from clinicals, and they are required to do so much time in ICU and surgery settings. Again do your research

Take a look at the average number of clinical hours in these DNP programs before you go spouting on about how others need to do their research. And please try and avoid the usual nursing tactic of including time worked as an RN.
 
Whoa you have to get a decent GPA in first year science classes to get into the UNDERGRAD program? Alright, you got me it's definitely more competitive that medical school.

Ba, I never said that, but whatever. The truth? Nurses are competent and able to practice medicine within their own scope just physicians. Thats all this discussion is about.
 
Take a look at the average number of clinical hours in these DNP programs before you go spouting on about how others need to do their research. And please try and avoid the usual nursing tactic of including time worked as an RN.

Why is that not valid?
And where did you get your information? I noticed you didnt actually give the hours.
 
If their argument is that suddenly getting a DNP degree makes them able to practice independently then yes, yes that would be what they are arguing.

Look up the clinical hours requirements for DNPs. It's pitiful at most places, like 500 hours. We go through more hours in a semester of M3.

Source?
Most actually require about 1000 or more.
http://nursing.virginia.edu/programs/bsn-dnp/
 
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Ba, I never said that, but whatever. The truth? Nurses are competent and able to practice medicine within their own scope just physicians. Thats all this discussion is about.

This is the quote I was arguing with, which you decided to step in and defend.

I am not talking about the courses required, obviously they are lower division than med prereqs, but the GPA requirements are often higher than medical schools. Thats just for your basic RN.

The GPA requirements aren't higher than medical schools (not to mention it's not even comparable in the first place since you've only taken a year of intro courses but whatever).

Also, nurses do not practice medicine. They practice nursing. Thus why they do not receive a medical degree.
 
This is the quote I was arguing with, which you decided to step in and defend.

I was arguing this the whole time. If that was what you were arguing for too then I apologize we were misunderstood.

The GPA requirements aren't higher than medical schools (not to mention it's not even comparable in the first place since you've only taken a year of intro courses but whatever).

Also, nurses do not practice medicine. They practice nursing. Thus why they do not receive a medical degree.

Semantics.

.
 
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I hate to repeat myself but here goes:

If you feel that your practicing rights as a physician are being threatened by the practicing rights being lobbied for by DNPs or others than you were expecting to be a lazy doctor. There are still tons of things that only a physician will be able to do. If all you wanted to do was sit in your office and hand out antibiotics or prescribe basic medicine then you should get out of the premed world and go to DNP school. As a physician you are going to have to do WAY more than just that. I am not going to get into the details of their petition, I read the article, I have read these petitions before I already know what they say and there is nothing for the pemedical world to worry about. Stop whining, and stop looking down on your professional collegues.
It's not about being lazy and not wanting to do your job well. There's definitely truth in the fact that physician pay for primary care is very low, and with the number of nurse practitioners, this can affect physician pay directly. You fail to understand (or admit to understand) that nurses are lobbying for equivalent rights to physicians as they claim they can give equal care, which is different than your opinion that they believe there's a legitimate difference where only doctors can do certain things.

I'm not looking down on other professionals. Every person has their role in health care and are trained for it. Without each other, health care couldn't be delivered, but when it comes to NPs, they are trying to circumvent the system to their benefit. If NPs were given equivalent training to MD/DO, I wouldn't have a problem with them. Stop trying to peg elitism when that's not the issue. I'm trying to be a DO. You think elitism is what I follow?
 
Ok this may be a MORE than stupid question but here goes. I heard that DNP have to disclose that they are DNP or it is a misdemeanor. For example they have to say I am Dr. So and So, your nurse practitioner. I have heard that they have to say something but never that it was a criminal offesnse.

Now I also heard that DOs have to do the same thing. So we sould have to say I am Dr. So and So, a Doctor of Osteopathy. Which I have never heard of. Is this true?? The distinction doesnt even make sense.

I have done some preliminary poking around on the internet and there is so much garbage out there I cant even begin to make sense of it.

Disclaimer: I over heard this while studying at my local nursing school from some very suspect not so swift ladies. (Not saying all nurses are like this, just this group)
 
Ok this may be a MORE than stupid question but here goes. I heard that DNP have to disclose that they are DNP or it is a misdemeanor. For example they have to say I am Dr. So and So, your nurse practitioner. I have heard that they have to say something but never that it was a criminal offesnse.

Now I also heard that DOs have to do the same thing. So we sould have to say I am Dr. So and So, a Doctor of Osteopathy. Which I have never heard of. Is this true?? The distinction doesnt even make sense.

I have done some preliminary poking around on the internet and there is so much garbage out there I cant even begin to make sense of it.

Disclaimer: I over heard this while studying at my local nursing school from some very suspect not so swift ladies. (Not saying all nurses are like this, just this group)

DOs have to disclose that they are witch doctors and their bad grades to every patient. They have to let the patient know that only an MD is a real doctor and they might kill them with their inferior skills. True story.
 
I am a CNA.

I can assure you that no nurse is trying to take over your future practice as a physician. If you learned to actually utilize your nursing staff properly you would understand this. Nurses enjoy what they do, they want to help people and they way they do this is fundamentally different from what physicians do.

Ok. As a paramedic who works with nurses on a nearly daily basis, I think this is naively generalizing an entire group of professionals.

Sure, plenty of nurses enjoy what they do; however, there is an inherent underlying push-pull between the nursing and medicine professions. Nursing theory is, in my opinion, dramatically different than the medical model taught to paramedics, physician assistants, and physicians. For many years the subservient nature of nursing was taught, even indoctrinated I dare say, into many nursing graduates. Then they get out and start to practice and it gets old, fast. Nurses get tired of the "high and mighty doctor." It's made worse by the fact that some nurses haze new MDs in residency and new MDs remember this and return the favor in spades (I understand this goes both ways). For every caring, good natured nurse who enjoys their station in life, there are certainly a few who would like nothing more than to turn the tables on 100 years of history. I get the feeling that many nurses see themselves as a disenfranchised class of people with a right to practice independently, not a profession seeking to advance themselves toward proving a right to independent practice.

This idea that nurses have a sole license over "holistic care" is itself protectionist, yet it is perpetuated at the bedside of patients everyday. I couldn't count on my hands the number of times I've heard a nurse (or other allied health provider) say, "Listen, if you need something, ask me. The doctors just are not in touch with what you need" or some other undermining comment like this. Patients are trained to seek relief and care through their nurse, not the physician.

In their defense, this is actually true all too often. This is where physicians have failed. I recently had a family member undergo some fairly serious care. The physician who came to speak with my family was texting and checking Facebook while he spoke with my mother. When he left my mother said, "Thank God for the nurse. How unprofessional! If you ever act like that I'll slap you." The physician actually did do his job. He asked all the pertinent questions relevant to the emergent condition, performed a brief back and forth differential with the family, and left. He just did it without one ounce of compassion or concern for the family members. The rest of the visit the nurses established themselves as the patient advocates and the doctors as the big bad enemy. Numerous people left that hospital with less respect for physicians than they had when they entered the hospital.

I don't believe the idea of DNPs is a problem, really. I think the problem is physicians are not actively advertising themselves as a meaningful part of the healthcare system because they assume, wrongly in my mind, that they are protected by thousands of years of tradition. That's shortsighted. The development of the DNP degree is a disruptive innovation and physicians would be smart to mobilize their significant financial resources to remind the public of the unique service they provide.

Finally, I should clarify that I appreciate the service nurses provide. I'm not even opposed to nurses, should they adopt a similar standard and model for education, eventually producing physicians. If DNPs want to take the MCAT, apply to nursing medical schools, complete residency, and pass a licensing exam of similar rigor to physicians, then they have done nothing less than what osteopathic physicians did so many years ago and should be recognized as "separate but equal." If, on the other hand, society as a whole comes to find the training of primary care physicians to be "overkill," then society, in consultation with physician organizations, should amend the requirements to enter that particular part of the profession, not create a new class of provider. If advanced practice nursing, with it's relevant educational attainment, is a safe way to provide primary care then maybe we should look at three year MD/DO programs (I think LECOM and NYU already have this) and shorter residencies for those professionals interested in this type of medical practice.
 
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DOs have to disclose that they are witch doctors and their bad grades to every patient. They have to let the patient know that only an MD is a real doctor and they might kill them with their inferior skills. True story.

:laugh::love: So, no its not true. I didnt think it made much sense either. But, maybe I had missed some arbitrary rule somewhere... You never know.
 
I have no fear whatsoever for my future job as a physician. If DNPs and other primary care alternatives want to help reduce the primary care shortage in our country I am all for it. A nurse will never fully replace a physician, this can only help everyone.

Move to a state with hospitals that have 900 beds and then say that.
 
The people who will really suffer in this are patients. All because everybody wants to play doctor..
 
...Finally, I should clarify that I appreciate the service nurses provide. I'm not even opposed to nurses, should they adopt a similar standard and model for education, eventually producing physicians. If DNPs want to take the MCAT, apply to nursing medical schools, complete residency, and pass a licensing exam of similar rigor to physicians, then they have done nothing less than what osteopathic physicians did so many years ago and should be recognized as "separate but equal." If, on the other hand, society as a whole comes to find the training of primary care physicians to be "overkill," then society, in consultation with physician organizations, should amend the requirements to enter that particular part of the profession, not create a new class of provider. If advanced practice nursing, with it's relevant educational attainment, is a safe way to provide primary care then maybe we should look at three year MD/DO programs (I think LECOM and NYU already have this) and shorter residencies for those professionals interested in this type of medical practice.

In all honestly, TL;DR, but I did read that last paragraph above, and I think its pretty much spot on.
 
This is where it just gets sad. Have any of you ever looked at the requirements to get into nursing school? (Midwifery school is very different than nursing school btw)
I am not talking about the courses required, obviously they are lower division than med prereqs, but the GPA requirements are often higher than medical schools. Thats just for your basic RN. To get into a BSN, MSN, or DNP program is VERY competitive. Remember there are crap premeds out there too who still get into med school. Just because you talked to one nursing student who hadnt figured things out yet doesnt mean they are all like that anymore than one subpar premed represents all of us.

I said that I was in nurse-midwifery school. Nurses essentially took over most of the midwifery profession so that they could still hold on to some type of a practice since physicians wanted to take over everything (Flexner Report of 1910)...and I do have a bachelor's degree in nursing. I call it my B.S.n. I excell in nursing fluff. I wrote some papers on the history of nurse midwifery: Historical Development of Nurse Midwifery and Birthing Centers in America and Causes of the Formation of Nurse Midwifery in the United States During the Early Twentieth Century

However, this is somewhat true. There are many people on here who couldn't get into nursing school stat wise. Nursing schools would also not care that you took harder classes because there would be a reverse type of bias.

To get into the associate's level program that I was in, you had to have a 4.0 or close. That was because so many people applied to the program and there were only 20-30 slots available. I would say, though, that MSN and DNP programs are less selective. Most don't even require a GRE score anymore. Some do require an interview.
 
Ok. As a licensed healthcare provider who works with nurses on a nearly daily basis, I think this is naively generalizing an entire group of professionals.

Sure, plenty of nurses enjoy what they do; however, there is an inherent underlying push-pull between the nursing and medicine professions. Nursing theory is, in my opinion, dramatically different than the medical model taught to paramedics, physician assistants, and physicians. For many years the subservient nature of nursing was taught, even indoctrinated I dare say, into many nursing graduates. Then they get out and start to practice and it gets old, fast. Nurses get tired of the "high and mighty doctor." It's made worse by the fact that some nurses haze new MDs in residency and new MDs remember this and return the favor in spades (I understand this goes both ways). For every caring, good natured nurse who enjoys their station in life, there are certainly a few who would like nothing more than to turn the tables on 100 years of history. I get the feeling that many nurses see themselves as a disenfranchised class of people with a right to practice independently, not a profession seeking to advance themselves toward proving a right to independent practice.

This idea that nurses have a sole license over "holistic care" is itself protectionist, yet it is perpetuated at the bedside of patients everyday. I couldn't count on my hands the number of times I've heard a nurse (or other allied health provider) say, "Listen, if you need something, ask me. The doctors just are not in touch with what you need" or some other undermining comment like this. Patients are trained to seek relief and care through their nurse, not the physician.

In their defense, this is actually true all too often. This is where physicians have failed. I recently had a family member undergo some fairly serious care. The physician who came to speak with my family was texting and checking Facebook while he spoke with my mother. When he left my mother said, "Thank God for the nurse. How unprofessional! If you ever act like that I'll slap you." The physician actually did do his job. He asked all the pertinent questions relevant to the emergent condition, performed a brief back and forth differential with the family, and left. He just did it without one ounce of compassion or concern for the family members. The rest of the visit the nurses established themselves as the patient advocates and the doctors as the big bad enemy. Numerous people left that hospital with less respect for physicians than they had when they entered the hospital.

I don't believe the idea of DNPs is a problem, really. I think the problem is physicians are not actively advertising themselves as a meaningful part of the healthcare system because they assume, wrongly in my mind, that they are protected by thousands of years of tradition. That's shortsighted. The development of the DNP degree is a disruptive innovation and physicians would be smart to mobilize their significant financial resources to remind the public of the unique service they provide.

Finally, I should clarify that I appreciate the service nurses provide. I'm not even opposed to nurses, should they adopt a similar standard and model for education, eventually producing physicians. If DNPs want to take the MCAT, apply to nursing medical schools, complete residency, and pass a licensing exam of similar rigor to physicians, then they have done nothing less than what osteopathic physicians did so many years ago and should be recognized as "separate but equal." If, on the other hand, society as a whole comes to find the training of primary care physicians to be "overkill," then society, in consultation with physician organizations, should amend the requirements to enter that particular part of the profession, not create a new class of provider. If advanced practice nursing, with it's relevant educational attainment, is a safe way to provide primary care then maybe we should look at three year MD/DO programs (I think LECOM and NYU already have this) and shorter residencies for those professionals interested in this type of medical practice.

Your statement that you are a "licensed healthcare provider" is extremely misleading. Say paramedic. People assume you are a PA, physician, etc when you state that. Really poor form.
 
DOs have to disclose that they are witch doctors and their bad grades to every patient. They have to let the patient know that only an MD is a real doctor and they might kill them with their inferior skills. True story.

:laugh:
 
Ok this may be a MORE than stupid question but here goes. I heard that DNP have to disclose that they are DNP or it is a misdemeanor. For example they have to say I am Dr. So and So, your nurse practitioner. I have heard that they have to say something but never that it was a criminal offesnse.

Now I also heard that DOs have to do the same thing. So we sould have to say I am Dr. So and So, a Doctor of Osteopathy. Which I have never heard of. Is this true?? The distinction doesnt even make sense.

I have done some preliminary poking around on the internet and there is so much garbage out there I cant even begin to make sense of it.

Disclaimer: I over heard this while studying at my local nursing school from some very suspect not so swift ladies. (Not saying all nurses are like this, just this group)

Yes and no. If asked, nurses and PAs need to tell the truth of course. But not required to introduce themselves as such. DOs are physicians so they do not need to disclose that they are a doctor because in the Federal government's eyes, and State's eyes, MD=DO
 
And you think a DNP does? At that point they have already completed their nursing degree and are required to have a number of hours of patient exposure from clinicals, and they are required to do so much time in ICU and surgery settings. Again do your research

To be fair, most people here don't care to look up nit picky details about things that they don't care. Telling people to do research gets you no where since its something most people here don't care.

Also, nurses do share some elitism. I ran into this gem where a nurse practitioner thinks it is beneath her to be called a nurse and tip toes around the fact that she deserves to be called a doctor: http://www.maverickhealth.com/blog/entry/it-is-a-mistake-to-call-a-nurse-practitiioner-a-nurse/

And in FL, NP's are definitely showing their agenda:
http://www.tampabay.com/news/health...ioners-seek-more-authority-in-florida/1273602

And my favorite, they are fighting a law that doesn't allow DNPs to call themselves a doctor around patients (SB 612) and the DNPs are trying to shoot it down because they argue it is a "waste of resources":
http://capntally.enpnetwork.com/nur...-dr-title-bill-sb-612-posted-by-fnpn-3-11-13-

Sorry, but I don't care about what the requirements are. Unless DNPs have to do 4 extra years (BSN is just a Baccalaureate and should NOT count as the first 2 years of medical school), take boards and go through residency, they do not deserve equal autonomy or even near equal. Working 20+ years means nothing to me because in that time, you could've worked your way on to becoming a physician and then you're free to call yourself a "Dr.".
 
Your statement that you are a "licensed healthcare provider" is extremely misleading. Say paramedic. People assume you are a PA, physician, etc when you state that. Really poor form.

No, not really. It's pretty clear by my other post on SDN that I'm a paramedic. People who work in healthcare would not immediately assume I was a PA or physician since nurses, who are the subject of this very thread, are also licensed. Since they constitute one of the largest single occupations in healthcare, you're making a very poor assumption. There are over 230,000 paramedics in the United States who might object to the assumption that they haven't earned recognition as licensed professionals. I know what many would tell you to do with your "poor form" comment.

I am, however, a licensed healthcare provider. The point of that line was to distinguish myself from a certified nursing assistant without being rude about it. In my state, and many others, this has implicit meaning in the context of professional recognition, responsibility, and capability of self-regulation. I thought, wrongly I suppose, that nearly all of the very educated people surfing this forum would have gotten my reference. I can't tell if you didn't know that or if this was misdirection in the hopes I wouldn't call you out. Many, many allied health professions are licensed by the states they work in.

Anyway, I think three choice words shouldn't distract from my overall point. I enjoy most of your post and respect your opinions, don't derail mine.
 
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No, not really. It's pretty clear by my other post on SDN that I'm a paramedic. People who work in healthcare would not immediately assume I was a PA or physician since nurses, who are the subject of this very thread, are also licensed. Since they constitute one of the largest single occupations in healthcare, you're making a very poor assumption. There are over 230,000 paramedics in the United States who might object to the assumption that they haven't earned recognition as licensed professionals. I know where many would tell you to stick your "poor form" comment.

I am, however, a licensed healthcare provider. The point of that line was to distinguish myself from a certified nursing assistant without being rude about it. In my state, and many others, this has implicit meaning in the context of professional recognition, responsibility, and capability of self-regulation. I thought, wrongly I suppose, that the very educated people surfing this forum would have gotten my reference. I can't tell if you didn't know that or if this was misdirection in the hopes I wouldn't call you out. Many, many allied health professions are licensed by the states they work in.

Anyway, I think three choice words shouldn't distract from my overall point. I enjoy most of your post and respect your opinions, don't derail mine.

You could have just stated "paramedic" if you wanted to distinguish yourself. But, who are we kidding, the only point in putting "licensed healthcare provider" is to deceive plain and simple. I dare you to state you are a "licensed healthcare provider" to your preceptors 3rd year.
 
No, not really. It's pretty clear by my other post on SDN that I'm a paramedic. People who work in healthcare would not immediately assume I was a PA or physician since nurses, who are the subject of this very thread, are also licensed. Since they constitute one of the largest single occupations in healthcare, you're making a very poor assumption. There are over 230,000 paramedics in the United States who might object to the assumption that they haven't earned recognition as licensed professionals. I know what many would tell you to do with your "poor form" comment.

I am, however, a licensed healthcare provider. The point of that line was to distinguish myself from a certified nursing assistant without being rude about it. In my state, and many others, this has implicit meaning in the context of professional recognition, responsibility, and capability of self-regulation. I thought, wrongly I suppose, that nearly all of the very educated people surfing this forum would have gotten my reference. I can't tell if you didn't know that or if this was misdirection in the hopes I wouldn't call you out. Many, many allied health professions are licensed by the states they work in.

Anyway, I think three choice words shouldn't distract from my overall point. I enjoy most of your post and respect your opinions, don't derail mine.

So was I when I was an EMT-Basic, but you wouldn't catch me being foolish or toolish enough to go about stating this.
 
Yes and no. If asked, nurses and PAs need to tell the truth of course. But not required to introduce themselves as such. DOs are physicians so they do not need to disclose that they are a doctor because in the Federal government's eyes, and State's eyes, MD=DO

Wrong. I've been a PA for 13 yr, licensed in 4 very different states. Each one of them REQUIRES that a PA wear a name tag that clearly identifies him or her as a Physician Assistant, AND states the PA MUST identify himself or herself to the patient as a PA. There are very stiff penalties for a PA who "holds himself (or herself) out as a physician" in any state.
 
So was I when I was an EMT-Basic, but you wouldn't catch me being foolish or toolish enough to go about stating this.

Actually in many states you were a "certified" EMT-Basic, which distinguishes you from a licensed healthcare provider. I won't assume your state's particular situation.

I edited the remark so you're happy. I know you just matched but try to climb down off my butt. No one is assaulting your status of soon-to-be licensed doctor. If you knew me, you'd know that my intention wasn't to mislead anyone. I made a choice of three words in a much larger post. My bad...I guess? Chill and contribute to the larger, and arguably more important, discussion.
 
Part of the undertones of this thread is to be honest with our level of training, hence why I brought it up in the first place. You may interpret this as me just being a dick, which is fine with me. But, the larger point is that there are far too many people being deceiving with their level of training, DNPs among them. Why I jumped on your wording.
 
Part of the undertones of this thread is to be honest with our level of training, hence why I brought it up in the first place. You may interpret this as me just being a dick, which is fine with me. But, the larger point is that there are far too many people being deceiving with their level of training, DNPs among them. Why I jumped on your wording.

You know this is probably one of those things that would have never happened if we weren't shouting at each other through the interwebs, right? Context is important. So is civility. I understand where you're coming from, although I admittedly wasn't thinking about it at the time.

Oh well, back to our regularly scheduled program.
 
1) Nurse is called as a "nurse".
2) If a nurse wanna to be called a "doctor" or "physician", then he/she must graduate from a medical school.

I hope that helps.
 
No, not really. It's pretty clear by my other post on SDN that I'm a paramedic. People who work in healthcare would not immediately assume I was a PA or physician since nurses, who are the subject of this very thread, are also licensed. Since they constitute one of the largest single occupations in healthcare, you're making a very poor assumption. There are over 230,000 paramedics in the United States who might object to the assumption that they haven't earned recognition as licensed professionals. I know what many would tell you to do with your "poor form" comment.

I am, however, a licensed healthcare provider. The point of that line was to distinguish myself from a certified nursing assistant without being rude about it. In my state, and many others, this has implicit meaning in the context of professional recognition, responsibility, and capability of self-regulation. I thought, wrongly I suppose, that nearly all of the very educated people surfing this forum would have gotten my reference. I can't tell if you didn't know that or if this was misdirection in the hopes I wouldn't call you out. Many, many allied health professions are licensed by the states they work in.

Anyway, I think three choice words shouldn't distract from my overall point. I enjoy most of your post and respect your opinions, don't derail mine.

Yea I can kinda see where you are coming from. In my state you wouldn't want to confuse a certified crossing guard with just a regular crossing guard who do not hold the same privileges as the licensed professionals who are distinct in their ability to jot down license plate numbers.
 
Yea I can kinda see where you are coming from. In my state you wouldn't want to confuse a certified crossing guard with just a regular crossing guard who do not hold the same privileges as the licensed professionals who are distinct in their ability to jot down license plate numbers.

Except the crossing guard doesn't place a tube made of PVC into your trachea, drill into your leg, or decompress your tension pneumothorax. A for effort.
 
ACA has stipulated $250 million for the development of 1 to 2 year Family Nurse Practitioner residency programs. While there are currently only a handful , this will become the norm and should be mandated for independent practice.
 
ACA has stipulated $250 million for the development of 1 to 2 year Family Nurse Practitioner residency programs. While there are currently only a handful , this will become the norm and should be mandated for independent practice.

I would like to review the curriculum of these residencies. Any links or names of programs? Thanks.
 
Except the crossing guard doesn't place a tube made of PVC into your trachea, drill into your leg, or decompress your tension pneumothorax. A for effort.

I was poking fun at you for going out of your way to make sure everyone knows you are superior to CNAs when in fact CNA is equivalent to paramedic. At least entry level. Mid or advanced > CNA in terms of prestige
 
I was poking fun at you for going out of your way to make sure everyone knows you are superior to CNAs when in fact CNA is equivalent to paramedic. At least entry level. Mid or advanced > CNA in terms of prestige

Are you from Canada? In the U.S a CNA is roughly equivalent to an EMT, which is different than a "paramedic." A paramedic is closest to a RN, which is why in most U.S. states a paramedic can only transfer care to a RN, mid-level, or physician. Most paramedics consider themselves specialist, focusing on emergency medicine, whereas RNs are taught as generalist. There is a significant knowledge gap and procedural difference between the two that goes both ways. Additionally, paramedics operate autonomously based on standing physician orders which is in contrast to many nursing fields (but not all: emergency and ICU nurses have significant autonomy to work on protocols).

In Canada and many other Anglo-Saxon EMS countries the term "paramedic" is used for all levels of EMS provider, but not in the U.S. In Canada, many provinces have primary care paramedics (PCP), advanced care paramedics (ACP), and critical care paramedics (CCP). Your "mid or advanced" comment tipped me off to Canada. There is a movement to do this here in the states, but it hasn't been widely accepted. This year is actually the first year that previously registered paramedics are having the term "EMT" dropped from their certification and licenses. All future recertified paramedics will recieve the designation "NRP," meaning "Nationally Registered Paramedic."

The difference between a paramedic and CNA in the U.S. is two years of education minimum, maybe four if the paramedic has a B.S. It's not about "prestige," but capability and knowledge base.
 
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The difference between a paramedic and CNA in the U.S. is two years of education minimum, maybe four if the paramedic has a B.S. It's not about "prestige," but capability and knowledge base.

OK. I confused paramedic with EMT. I looked it up, a paramedic has much greater responsibilities and training than an EMT.
 
ACA has stipulated $250 million for the development of 1 to 2 year Family Nurse Practitioner residency programs. While there are currently only a handful , this will become the norm and should be mandated for independent practice.

It's too bad the Affordable Care Act isn't zoning in more on solving the future residency issue. Backdoor fixes for everything.


Anyway, I felt obligated to comment on the "rigor" and "competitiveness" of getting into nursing school. Compared to a premedical curriculum, pre-nurses don't experience rigor. They just don't.

My school has the largest nursing school in the state, and put out a statistic that since 2008, 25% of the state's new nurses were educated at my school. Well, I've TA'd and tutored for their curriculum since 2010. Simply speaking, it's a joke. But, for what they need to know it serves them well.

Sterling hilariously pointed out that they take general chemistry, physiology, path, anatomy, etc. I used to be a health studies major, and took all of the above courses with the pre-nursing students. The general chemistry is a level below the series required for science majors, and the anatomy/physio, aka the weed-out class at my school, consisted of a final where 40% of the final consisted of labeling the four chambers of the heart and discussing blood flow through them. Obviously this is an anecdote, but still. Nursing physiology pales in comparison to upper level bio physiology. Comparing RN science curriculum with what med students go though should be outlawed. I've worked with far too many RN's that feel they have a similar understanding of the body to a physician. It's dangerous thinking.

Again, I have no qualms of seeing an NP when I have the sniffles. Anything requiring any sort of thought process or diagnosis and I will be requesting the MDO. Nurses aren't trained to be thinkers. They are trained to assist and expedite/offload the process. And because of that they are an invaluable resource.
 
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