NYC internal medicine residency programs

[WonderBoy]

Anyone have recommendations of SubI in the NY area? I am not speaking about big city programs but places that may take a DO with average steps and I can actually learn during SubI.

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[tartesos]

Impressive because its Winthrop... Nuff said.

 

[gutonc]

Impressive because its Winthrop... Nuff said.

So it's impressive that Winthrop residents match into Winthrop fellowships?

Your definition of impressive could use some adjustment.

 

[tartesos]

So it's impressive that Winthrop residents match into Winthrop fellowships?

Your definition of impressive could use some adjustment.

There were some non Winthrop thy were pretty nice prog.
But yeah, in easily impressed

 

[meliora27]

Can anyone comment on the current scene regarding Lenox Hill's IM residency. What are fellowship prospects like? I know they have some in-house ones. Thanks!

 

[pandoraone]

Columbia is #1 by far, the next 3 are dependent on what fellowship you are looking to land, malignancy, pt population etc. If you want GI I'd put Sinai #2, Heme/Onc Cornell #2, Cards NYU #2.

1)Columbia
2)Sinai (GI)
3)Cornell (Heme/Onc)
4)NYU (Cards)

'What kind of step one score would you need for 2-4?

 

[gutonc]

'What kind of step one score would you need for 2-4?

Dude...enough. How many times are you going to ask this question? Just take your exam, get the best score you can and come back and talk once you've decided which specialty you want.

 

[lymphohystiocytosis]

'What kind of step one score would you need for 2-4?

275, minimum.

 

[Medstart108]

Are you aware that most university programs would not touch IMG with a 10 inch pole? Even if they were ranked first at their med school, which collaborate closely to the universities sponsoring said programs, have very high USMLE scores, PhD and substantial publication record, without any gap in clinical education? The reason is that the program does not want to be seen as if they can't get enough AMG applicants.

Similarly, AMGs don't want to go to program with significant fraction of IMGs, so they are not seen as a failure by their peers.

In fact, while IMGs are the ultimate "untouchables", there are many more castes in the system. I just looked for instance at UPMC and Northwestern residency programs. There is not a single resident there from the top 10 med schools.

As result of these two forces there is a clear convergence towards segregation of programs into two types: exclusively AMG and exclusively IMG. And as it makes sense to question which AMG program gives better training, it makes sense to ask the same regarding the IMG programs. But probably this is the wrong forum to ask these question as AMGs are naturally unfamiliar with IMG programs.

P.S. I'm not even sure if comparison between programs belonging to different AMG castes (or leagues, as they are called here) makes any sense besides the community bias.



Hence there is a clear segregation

Definitely not true. Just look at IM resident profiles. Even the top programs are comprised of 6-10% IMGs.

 

[47Muninsured]

Can anyone comment on the current scene regarding Lenox Hill's IM residency. What are fellowship prospects like? I know they have some in-house ones. Thanks!

Lenox Hill 2013 fellowship match 26 grads/15 applying for fellowship/13 successful:

Cardiology

UMDNJ - Camden
Cardiology

Lenox Hill Hospital
Endocrinology

UMDNJ - Newark
Gastroenterology

Lenox Hill Hospital
Geriatrics

Rush University
Hematology/Oncology

Boston University
Hematology/Oncology

Lankenau Medical Center
Hematology/Oncology

University of Texas – San Antonio
Nephrology

Stony Brook University
Nephrology

UMDNJ - RWJ
Palliative Care

NS-LIJ
Pulmonary/Critical Care

Louisiana State University
Pulmonary/Critical Care

SUNY Downstate
Pulmonary/Critical Care

Lenox Hill Hospital

 

[Bronxzoo]

So as a New Yorker and having gone through this very recently, I thought I would add my two cents about the NYC programs for the applicants this year. I've rotated at a few of them as a medical student. For the others, the information is from friends at the programs or from my interviews there, so definitely I don't pretend to know everything about these programs. I hope this can be a bit helpful for people applying to NYC this year. I've used their names as they appear in FREIDA, because many of these hospitals have many different programs listed, which makes things confusing. I've placed them in my own relative preference if I were ranking them again.


1. New York Presbyterian Hospital (Columbia Campus) Program
Fellowship: Fellowships will salivate over you. Seriously, their fellowship match list is second to none
Scut: High (despite what anyone on interview day tells you)
Workload: Insane
Location: Washington Heights... sucks
Comments: Columbia is definitely the most prestigious NYC program and also the one that provides the best clinical training IMO. Intern year is hard at Columbia, but you come out of it a world class physician. On interviews, I remember just being so impressed by the PGY-2/3's and their level of knowledge and ability to take care of even the most complex patients. The aPD at Columbia (the one that basically is the PD) was also one of my favorite PDs on the interview trail. That said, scut is high, the workload is insane, and resident happiness is an issue...

The other thing about Columbia is that around 30% of inpatients and 70% of outpatients (at resident clinic) are Spanish speaking ONLY (because washington heights = spanish harlem). That is, they don't speak English AT ALL. Thus, if you don't speak Spanish, expect your rounds to be 50% longer than all the other interns because you need to dial the translator phone for half your patients. If anyone has ever worked on a translator phone before, you should know how much time it adds to your conversations. Plus, every time you forget to ask about something small, you have to go back there and dial the translator phone again...

2. Icahn School of Medicine at Mount Sinai Program
What forum calls it: Mount Sinai
Fellowship: Excellent
Scut: Medium
Workload: High
Location: You're right next to central park on the UES (upper east side)... what's not to love?
Comments: It's tough to say which is better, Sinai or Cornell. Sinai has a great track record with GI and Cornell has a great track record with Hem/Onc. Both places are excellent training programs, but I personally like Sinai a bit better because the ancillary staff is probably the best on the island of Manhatten and its a little bit more chill than Cornell. Fellowships placements at both Sinai and Cornell are amazing, though with a slight edge to Cornell.

3. New York Presbyterian Hospital (Cornell Campus) Program
Fellowship: Excellent
Scut: Medium-High
Workload: High
Location: Amazing!
Comments: See Sinai comments. Also to clarify, both Columbia and Cornell are owned by the same medical center called New York Presbyterian Hospital. In the late 90s, Presbyterian Hospital (Columbia) and New York Hospital (Cornell) merged and thus formed the New York Presbyterian Hospital. However, the internal medicine residency programs are still completely separate and probably will continue to be so. The two hospitals are also physically separated by half the island of Manhattan, but there is a shuttle that runs between them, for those considering couples matching.

4. New York University School of Medicine Program
What forum calls it: NYU or Bellevue
Fellowship: Good
Scut: High (except Tisch)
Workload: High
Location: Amazing!
Comments: NYU has three hospitals, Bellevue, Tisch, and the VA. You spend the majority of your time at Bellevue, which is a ****ty hospital in terms of ancillary services. Tisch on the other hand is pretty great from that perspective. The VA is well... the VA. The clinical training at NYU is excellent and I liked the location alot. While its fellowship match is not as good as Columbia/Sinai/Cornell, though its still pretty darn good!

5. Albert Einstein College of Medicine (Montefiore) Program
What forum calls it: Montefiore or Moses/Weiler or Einstein
Fellowship: Okay
Scut: High
Workload: Insane
Location: Ugh
Comments: Just for clarification, Montefiore = Moses/Weiler hospital. Albert Einstein is associated with a bunch of hospitals, but Montefiore one is the main academic hospital that Einstein is associated with, while the other ones are community hospitals. Of all the NYC programs, Montefiore probably places the most emphasis on community health (but this may not be not super relevant for residents, unless you're interested in primary care). I've rotated through here as a medical student and I can say that the teaching attendings here are, for the most part, pretty darn good. The clinical training is solid, in part due to the volume of patients seen here and excellent attendings.

That said, the workload here is pretty insane, and the scut is RAMPANT. Scut can eat up about 1-5 hours of your day each day and that takes away from both learning and sleeping. Work hours are violated all the time and resident happiness is certainly an issue

Location-wise, the Bronx is pretty terrible and many out-of-state folks don't realize that... the Bronx is not the same as Manhattan. Going from Montefiore to Manhattan probably takes around an hour by public transportation. Driving does make this a bit faster depending on the traffic, but unless you want to try to find and pay for parking/parking tickets in Manhattan, its not worth it generally. Montefiore also has a large Spanish population and, like Columbia, around 30% of your patients will not speak English at all. Finally, the research opportunities here are not as good, and thus, fellowship placement here is rather poor compared to the 4 Manhattan programs (the majority of the class does NOT specialize).

 

[Bronxzoo]

6. NSLIJHS/Hofstra North Shore-LIJ School of Medicine Program
What forum calls it: NSLIJ or LIJ (Long Island Jewish) or North Shore
Fellowship: Poor
Scut: MINIMAL
Workload: Low
Location: Suburban
Comments: Just for clarification, this refers to the New Hyde Park campus. NSLIJ owns a ton of hospitals, but the New Hyde Park one is their main hospital. North Shore... serves a very rich population on Long Island and has a very competent CEO, and thus have a TON of money. Recently, they've been on the warpath and are buying up all the failing hospitals on NYC. In fact, they are richer than Columbia/Cornell and Sinai. Also to clarify, this is two hospitals, North Shore and LIJ, but they are right next to each other. North Shore is the rich one.

Now, what does this mean for the residents? This means they have a functioning set of ancillary staff (at North Shore at least) and alot of non-teaching services. Thus, residency here is quite chill and this is the only NYC program with minimal scut!!! Its location is very suburban and quite far from Manhattan. If you're someone who loves the nightlife, NSLIJ may not be for you. But if you're seeking a nice and quiet neighborhood with the opportunity to go to the city every other weekend or so, then LIJ's location is perfect.

However, the teaching here is not as great since LIJ is not a very academic place. Having rotated through both here and at Montefiore as a medical student, I can say that the clinical training provided at Montefiore is far superior. Fellowship placement here is also rather poor, though LIJ fellowships tend to take a lot of LIJ residents

7. Icahn School of Medicine at Mount Sinai (Beth Israel) Program
What forum calls it: Beth Israel (not to be confused with Beth Israel Deaconess, which is a far superior hospital at Harvard)
Fellowship: Poor
Scut: Medium
Workload: Low
Location: Amazing!
Comments: This is a community hospital but in a GREAT part of NYC. I absolutely love this location. Scut is less compared to many other Manhattan hospitals but still there. As residencies go, this residency is very chill and the workload is quite low compared to the academic hospitals in Manhattan. However, having rotated here, I can tell you that the teaching here is pretty bad (or nonexistant). Attendings just do whatever, no evidence base medicine is practiced at all, and you are just the order monkey for 3 years. You most likely do not come out of here a stellar physician, but you'll have a great time in residency. Finally, placing into fellowships can be an uphill climb.

8. NSLIJ/Hofstra North Shore-LIJ School of Medicine at Lenox Hill Hospital Program
What forum calls it: Lenox Hill
Fellowship: Poor
Scut: Medium
Workload: Low
Location: Amazing!
Comments: Another community hospital and also in a great part of NYC. This is also a very chill residency. The best part is, you can tell people that Beyonce gave birth here (I have no idea why she would pick here though, when its on the same island as Columbia, Cornell, Sinai, NYU... yet she picks Lenox Hill?). Unfortunately, attendings here also just do whatever, practice zero evidence based medicine, and the teaching is either minimal or just plain wrong. Placing into fellowships can be an uphill climb.

9. SUNY Downstate
Fellowship: Poor
Scut: Insane
Workload: High
Location: Brooklyn
Comments: Downstate is a ****-show, located in a shady part of Brooklyn, with insane amounts of scut. Residents here are miserable so don't go here unless you have to. As this is an academic hospital, fellowship opportunities theoretically are higher than the community programs like BI and Lenox... but is it really worth it?

10. Icahn School of Medicine at Mount Sinai/St Luke's-Roosevelt Hospital Center Program
What forum calls it: St Luke’s
Fellowship: Poor
Scut: Medium
Workload: Medium
Location: Good
Comments: Another community hospital. Its actually two hospitals, St. Luke's is in Morningside Heights and Roosevelt is on 59th. Probably a bit more scut than BI and Lenox, and probably a bit more work too. Similarly, fellowships will be hard to obtain

11. Albert Einstein College of Medicine (Jacobi) Program
What forum calls it: Jacobi
Fellowship: Poor
Scut: Medium
Workload: Medium
Location: Horrible
Comments: Just for clarification, this is one of the other Albert Einstein program. This is similar to BI, Lenox, and SLR, except there is more work, more scut, and its in the Bronx

12. Maimonides Medical Center Program
Comments: See statement about Downstate. On top of the fact that its a community hospital, so... please don't go here.

I didn't include Stony Brook in this list since its really not in NYC... its the same distance from NY as Yale is. The other NYC hospitals not listed here are all community hospitals that are worse than BI, Lenox, SLR, and Jacobi. Of the community hospitals in NYC, BI, Lenox, SLR, and Jacobi are definitely the best in terms of fellowships.

 

[IMPD]

Thanks @Bronxzoo. Very helpful.

 

[heroes31]

Downstate vs. Jacobi? If you could only interview at one (for scheduling reasons) which would you choose?

 

[gutonc]

Downstate vs. Jacobi? If you could only interview at one (for scheduling reasons) which would you choose?

Split the difference geography-wise and go to John's of Bleecker St. instead.

As much as it pains me to say it, I'd probably choose Downstate if only for the more varied training environment (VA, County, Uni). Not sure if it's still the case but residents also used to be able to go to MSKCC for a month or two which is nice if you want to do Hem/Onc.

 

[LoudBark]

Downstate vs. Jacobi? If you could only interview at one (for scheduling reasons) which would you choose?

The most telling sign is that no Downstate medical students will stay there for IM residency.
Can that be said for any of the other med schools in NYC? Nope.

 

[heroes31]

Thanks for the insight guys. I read that whole thread about downstate from a little while ago. A little concerning to say the least.
Gutonc: Im surprised you would still pick downstate as you said it was a horrible place to be a resident.
Any insight into Jacobi? Seems like a good program on paper but I don't have much inside info on the program and not much on sdn.

 

[gutonc]

Thanks for the insight guys. I read that whole thread about downstate from a little while ago. A little concerning to say the least.
Gutonc: Im surprised you would still pick downstate as you said it was a horrible place to be a resident.
Any insight into Jacobi? Seems like a good program on paper but I don't have much inside info on the program and not much on sdn.

Actually, I picked John's of Bleecker St. And I wasn't kidding.

 

[heroes31]

Actually, I picked John's of Bleecker St. And I wasn't kidding.

lol

 

[HelpPleaseMD]

Some pros about Downstate
Huge clinical variety
Tons of procedures
Prefers to take inhouse for fellowship (except fot GI) though 2 years ago all 4 spots for GI went to Downstate IM grads

Cons
terrible anxcillary staff support, and mean nurses
below average teaching
will have a lot of gomers on your census, there just because they have no home to go back to -_-
tons of scut work. Will have your share of blood draws, ABGS, IVS

Teaching is hit or miss. There are some great faculty there. Full discloser, I did not stay at Downstate either. Most of us don't stay because the fellowship opportuntiies are better in other programs and rather not deal with the scut/patient load if the teaching isn't stellar and there is little opportunity for competitive fellowship placement outside of downstate in the more competitive fellowships.

I'd choose Downstate over Jacobi though.

 

[gutonc]

I'd choose Downstate over Jacobi though.

So now 2/2 Downstate grads who wouldn't choose Downstate at all if given the choice, would still pick it over Jacobi.

Case closed.

 

[235009]

So now 2/2 Downstate grads who wouldn't choose Downstate at all if given the choice, would still pick it over Jacobi.

Case closed.

Throughout the interview day at downstate I thought I was being punked. They didn't even try to fake it. Their whole deal is basically scooping up people who are desperate to be in NYC but are not competitive enough for the other 5 university programs. Of the small handful of residents I met at my interview at least a couple were downstate grads but I'm assuming they didn't exactly CHOOSE to be there.

 

[gutonc]

Throughout the interview day at downstate I thought I was being punked. They didn't even try to fake it. Their whole deal is basically scooping up people who are desperate to be in NYC but are not competitive enough for the other 5 university programs. Of the small handful of residents I met at my interview at least a couple were downstate grads but I'm assuming they didn't exactly CHOOSE to be there.

There was a very brief period (2 or 3 years) when Conrad Fischer was the AssPD there, that Downstate grads thought it might be a good choice for them. I did not fall for that, and I actually have him to thank for that since he talked me out of even bothering to apply.

As much as I like to talk s*** about the place though, the pathology is amazing, there were (my data is almost 10 years outdated at this point) some great teachers at the County, particularly in Renal, Cards and GI, and if your goal is a fellowship or die, you'll probably get one in house if you're willing to Chief up. It's definitely in the Top 5 University programs in NYC.

 

[235009]

There was a very brief period (2 or 3 years) when Conrad Fischer was the AssPD there, that Downstate grads thought it might be a good choice for them. I did not fall for that, and I actually have him to thank for that since he talked me out of even bothering to apply.

As much as I like to talk s*** about the place though, the pathology is amazing, there were (my data is almost 10 years outdated at this point) some great teachers at the County, particularly in Renal, Cards and GI, and if your goal is a fellowship or die, you'll probably get one in house if you're willing to Chief up. It's definitely in the Top 5 University programs in NYC.

Is that guy as obnoxious in real life as he is in the Kaplan videos? Gotta admit his teaching methods do work…sometimes.

I feel like when I had interviewed there one of the chiefs was saying he had failed to match. Don't remember in what field but talk about red flags!

Not sure if you were trying to make a joke but it's definitely not in the top 5 University programs in nyc…maybe 6th…out of six

Also pathology be damned. you can find "good pathology" at many places that will treat you more humanely.

 

[bobow98]

I think Jacobi gets a bad rep for not much good reason. It's a pretty decent hospital. House staff are friendly, will teach, lots of FMG, nurses are hit or miss, social work not so good just like any public hospital. Teaching is solid.

 

[gutonc]

Is that guy as obnoxious in real life as he is in the Kaplan videos? Gotta admit his teaching methods do work…sometimes.

I feel like when I had interviewed there one of the chiefs was saying he had failed to match. Don't remember in what field but talk about red flags!

Not sure if you were trying to make a joke but it's definitely not in the top 5 University programs in nyc…maybe 6th…out of six

Also pathology be damned. you can find "good pathology" at many places that will treat you more humanely.

That joke would have been funnier I'd I could count to 6.

And Fischer is a decent person, but he's bats*** crazy. That said, I did learn a lot from his weekly reviews while on medicine.

 

[DermViser]

That joke would have been funnier I'd I could count to 6.

And Fischer is a decent person, but he's bats*** crazy. That said, I did learn a lot from his weekly reviews while on medicine.

Why? Bc he's vivacious? I thought he was really enthuasiastic in the Kaplan IM series. He makes quite a bit of bank working for Kaplan and writing board review books.

 

[DermViser]

I think Jacobi gets a bad rep for not much good reason. It's a pretty decent hospital. House staff are friendly, will teach, lots of FMG, nurses are hit or miss, social work not so good just like any public hospital. Teaching is solid.

😵

 

[rokshana]

ha

Why? Bc he's vivacious? I thought he was really enthuasiastic in the Kaplan IM series. He makes quite a bit of bank working for Kaplan and writing board review books.

have you MET him?? agree with gutonc...

 

[gutonc]

Why? Bc he's vivacious? I thought he was really enthuasiastic in the Kaplan IM series. He makes quite a bit of bank working for Kaplan and writing board review books.

Try rounding with the dude.

 

[throwaway19891234]

275, minimum.

wrong. terrible advice. i have personally spoken to the PD. 276 is the threshold score for screening apps, but i have it on good faith they haven't accepted a candidate below 285 in the past 6 years. who knows though, if you score above 275 apply, you may have a shot

 

[thehundredthone]

Why? Bc he's vivacious? I thought he was really enthuasiastic in the Kaplan IM series. He makes quite a bit of bank working for Kaplan and writing board review books.

His enthusiasm gets old quick. That, and his repeated denial of evolution and preference for an almost Lamarck-ian natural selection during lectures. Definitely what you need to understand adrenal physiology.

wrong. terrible advice. i have personally spoken to the PD. 276 is the threshold score for screening apps, but i have it on good faith they haven't accepted a candidate below 285 in the past 6 years. who knows though, if you score above 275 apply, you may have a shot

You're just bitter that you got a 273 and didn't get invited.

 

[DermViser]

His enthusiasm gets old quick. That, and his repeated denial of evolution and preference for an almost Lamarck-ian natural selection during lectures. Definitely what you need to understand adrenal physiology.

So you don't like him bc he believes in God?

I think the enthusiasm helps in order to have an "Ah, ha!" moment when you understand it. He's very much a healthcare is a human right type person. That's actually what annoys me about him and is quite disappointing (since by right that implies, free): https://seefisch.wordpress.com/2009...lthcare-reform-in-the-united-states/#comments

 

[thehundredthone]

So you don't like him bc he believes in God?

I like how you're putting words in my mouth. I don't like him because he spends too much time not discussing the topic he should be and instead shouting about people running away from dinosaurs. I think the "Definitely what you need to learn adrenal physiology." makes that quite clear. Should I have mentioned his Shakespearean quotes instead? Maybe you'd say I don't like him because I'm a philistine. I don't care what he believes, it has nothing to do with my medical education.

And why is denying evolution = believing in God?

 

[DermViser]

I like how you're putting words in my mouth. I don't like him because he spends too much time not discussing the topic he should be and instead shouting about people running away from dinosaurs. I think the "Definitely what you need to learn adrenal physiology." makes that quite clear. Should I have mentioned his Shakespearean quotes instead? Maybe you'd say I don't like him because I'm a philistine. I don't care what he believes, it has nothing to do with my medical education.

And why is denying evolution = believing in God?

He probably does it to intersperse fun in the videos. It's not meant to lecture but intersperse something different in which the subject matter is boring to learn from videos.

 

[thehundredthone]

He probably does it to intersperse fun in the videos. It's not meant to lecture but intersperse something different in which the subject matter is boring to learn from videos.

That's what I thought at first. But it's like watching a comedian at multiple shows. Once you realise it's the same joke over and over (and he covers so many topics), it grates on the ear. If you've watched his older videos where he teaches a live class, you'll appreciate his style much more, he really does engage the audience in those.

 

[DermViser]

That's what I thought at first. But it's like watching a comedian at multiple shows. Once you realise it's the same joke over and over (and he covers so many topics), it grates on the ear. If you've watched his older videos where he teaches a live class, you'll appreciate his style much more, he really does engage the audience in those.

So he talks about evolution in different organ systems videos?

 

[thehundredthone]

So he talks about evolution in different organ systems videos?

He talks about that, he quotes Shakespeare, he screams randomly in the middle of videos. Even though I watched them at 2x it was not enough to keep it from getting to me at times.

 

[DermViser]

He talks about that, he quotes Shakespeare, he screams randomly in the middle of videos. Even though I watched them at 2x it was not enough to keep it from getting to me at times.

I guess if you're watching it at 2x then your purpose is different. I watched them at normal speed so the interspersed stuff was more a good memorable thing to put the information into memory for later retrieval. I find his healthcare views quite putting off, honestly. That would get to me more.

 

[thehundredthone]

I guess if you're watching it at 2x then your purpose is different. I watched them at normal speed so the interspersed stuff was more a good memorable thing to put the information into memory for later retrieval. I find his healthcare views quite putting off, honestly. That would get to me more.

He's entitled to his views, it was just going off topic to the same old things over and over that was annoying. I found that everyone speaks really slow at normal speed, I don't think I could sit through him chanting "salivation, lacrimation..." at that speed. And we learn to compartmentalise the politics of professional conversations, you just have to do the same while studying.

 

[CardiacLion]

So as a New Yorker and having gone through this very recently, I thought I would add my two cents about the NYC programs for the applicants this year. I've rotated at a few of them as a medical student. For the others, the information is from friends at the programs or from my interviews there, so definitely I don't pretend to know everything about these programs. I hope this can be a bit helpful for people applying to NYC this year. I've used their names as they appear in FREIDA, because many of these hospitals have many different programs listed, which makes things confusing. I've placed them in my own relative preference if I were ranking them again...

So I'm obviously a long time ahead of when I should be really thinking about this (maybe not), but I wanted your guys' opinions (@gutonc ) on how often these top IM programs in NY would even consider a student from a US DO school?

I have been accepted to NYIT-COM this cycle and will most likely matriculate there (waiting on 12 more US MDs), and would like to go into Cardiology ultimately. Given that my board scores are 240+ and that I do well on my clerkships, would being a DO hinder me from interviewing/matching at these residency programs?

Or should I reapply and wait for an MD acceptance? ( I can provide you with stats in PM).

 

[gutonc]

There are a million threads debating whether or not "Top" IM programs will accept DOs and the answer is generally no (although somebody will then come through with an exception that more or less proves the rule). You are not going to do IM at Columbia or Cornell or NYU (or Hopkins or Duke or MGH or...or...or...) as a DO grad...the end. Doesn't mean you can't get a great residency and fellowship in NYC (or preferably elsewhere...seriously, you don't want to do residency in NYC, never mind wind up there as an attending).

And no, don't wait. Matriculate this year. NYCOM is as good as it gets in the DO world (along with places like CCOM and PCOM) so if you don't get an MD acceptance, take the bird you have and run.

 

[CardiacLion]

There are a million threads debating whether or not "Top" IM programs will accept DOs and the answer is generally no (although somebody will then come through with an exception that more or less proves the rule). You are not going to do IM at Columbia or Cornell or NYU (or Hopkins or Duke or MGH or...or...or...) as a DO grad...the end. Doesn't mean you can't get a great residency and fellowship in NYC (or preferably elsewhere...seriously, you don't want to do residency in NYC, never mind wind up there as an attending).

And no, don't wait. Matriculate this year. NYCOM is as good as it gets in the DO world (along with places like CCOM and PCOM) so if you don't get an MD acceptance, take the bird you have and run.

I appreciate the honesty @gutonc . Will do, and thanks again for replying! 🙂

 

[NYDO2014]

I would hold the NYIT-COM acceptance for now, and wait for the MD acceptance (assuming the MD is from American school)

it's much better to apply top 20 IM programs coming from an MD school.

Top 25 programs for internal medicine don't consider DO applicant. (except a couple at UW, Colorado, OHSU).
pm me for more details.

 

[Amano]

11. Albert Einstein College of Medicine (Jacobi) Program
What forum calls it: Jacobi
Fellowship: Poor
Scut: Medium
Workload: Medium
Location: Horrible
Comments: Just for clarification, this is one of the other Albert Einstein program. This is similar to BI, Lenox, and SLR, except there is more work, more scut, and its in the Bronx

I am a Jacobi graduate and disagree with the above. Most of the Jacobi housestaff are very happy with the program and the amount of scutwork has been reduced a lot in the last 3 years. It is a respected program and graduates match well both within the AECOM system and in excellent outside institutions. The match list of a program that has sent cards fellows to places like UPenn, Columbia, Mt Sinai and Emory in the last 4 years alone is not "poor" IMHO.

 

[rokshana]

I am a Jacobi graduate and disagree with the above. Most of the Jacobi housestaff are very happy with the program and the amount of scutwork has been reduced a lot in the last 3 years. It is a respected program and graduates match well both within the AECOM system and in excellent outside institutions. The match list of a program that has sent cards fellows to places like UPenn, Columbia, Mt Sinai and Emory in the last 4 years alone is not "poor" IMHO.

that's great and all....but its not about 1 or 2 people a year going somewhere big....but how many applied AND got a fellowship spot....1 person applies and matched well , great...5 people apply and only 1 gets a spot (albeit a great spot)....not so great...

 

[Amano]

that's great and all....but its not about 1 or 2 people a year going somewhere big....but how many applied AND got a fellowship spot....1 person applies and matched well , great...5 people apply and only 1 gets a spot (albeit a great spot)....not so great...

Agreed. The list of Jacobi graduates (class of 2014 and below) shows how many people per class went into fellowships, how many became hospitalists etc. and where. There are ~30 residents per class. I would say that >90% of those that did not go to a fellowship were not interested in applying for a spot.

 

[McSap]

The other thing to consider in programs which are very IMG heavy is the background of the people who get fellowships - many IMGs have extensive training/research/experience/publications in their home country prior to starting residency here, which can make their fellowship match stats difficult to compare to others such as fresh AMGs. For example, the person who matched to cards at Colombia had previously completed a PhD in cardiovascular science at columbia prior to their jacobi residency. Ive also seen programs "advertise " cardiology matches for IMGs who were essentially attending cardiologists in their home country etc

 

[Amano]

The other thing to consider in programs which are very IMG heavy is the background of the people who get fellowships - many IMGs have extensive training/research/experience/publications in their home country prior to starting residency here, which can make their fellowship match stats difficult to compare to others such as fresh AMGs. For example, the person who matched to cards at Colombia had previously completed a PhD in cardiovascular science at columbia prior to their jacobi residency. Ive also seen programs "advertise " cardiology matches for IMGs who were essentially attending cardiologists in their home country etc

The person you are referring to is actually an AMG. But it is true that you need strong credentials to get to the top fellowships. Both AMGs and IMGs at Jacobi get good clinical training, are very supported by the program and do well after graduation.

 

[NyQuil]

The most telling sign is that no Downstate medical students will stay there for IM residency.
Can that be said for any of the other med schools in NYC? Nope.

This couldn't be farther from the truth. I'd say that DS students make anywhere from 20-35% of every class. I will grant you that it is rarely top choice, but outside of the other 5 academic centers, DS may be the best deal otherwise. It is an academic center in a great location (Brooklyn overall, not Flatbush, specifically), and plenty of fellowship opportunities w/ good in-house loyalty. You have to know what you're signing up for, but it is far from the horror story that it is often represented as on SDN.