NYU announced a new med school in Long Island. Focus on primary care.

[Princeton Medical Student]

NYU to Open New Medical School on Long Island | Washington Square News
NYU to establish Long Island medical school at Winthrop

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[Ultimakey]

Only 40 per semester?

 

[Princeton Medical Student]

Only 40 per semester?

Gotta provide that free tuition somehow

 

[MyOdyssey]

Only 40 per semester?

Didn't NYU just go tuition free in their Manhattan campus in order to encourage its students to go primary care?

Now their Long Island campus charges $40k per year for a campus geared toward training primary care physicians?

One hand giveth. One hand taketh away?

 

[Princeton Medical Student]

Didn't NYU just go tuition free in their Manhattan campus in order to encourage its students to go primary care?

Now their Long Island campus charges $40k per year for a campus geared toward training primary care physicians?

One hand giveth. One hand taketh away?

He meant 40 student class, not 40k

 

[MyOdyssey]

He meant 40 student class, not 40k

So how many "k" are we talking about per semester?

 

[Princeton Medical Student]

So how many "k" are we talking about per semester?

My assumption (emphasis on ass as no one knows yet really), is that it'll be free like NYU main.

 

[MyOdyssey]

My assumption (emphasis on ass as no one knows yet really), is that it'll be free like NYU main.

I can get behind that if that turns out to be the case.

 

[efle]

Interesting to note it will be a 3 year MD program, reminiscent of the 3-year program at the main campus. For the current 3-year program, admission to the track is accompanied by conditional automatch into a specific residency there at their main hospital upon graduation.

I wonder if this new program is going to be the same, where it takes in 40 people per year with a primary care training spot for residency already reserved for them.

Also, color me pretty surprised by this move. Didn't think NYU was all that interested in churning out primary care docs, especially considering that the "shortage" isn't really an issue in Manhattan or Long Island. I thought their free tuition explanation was a bunch of bunk, and they just wanted to improve their yield for students cross-admitted to other high ranked programs where nearly everyone specializes. Good to see my cynicism disproved.

 

[Unlimited Apps]

Didn't NYU just go tuition free in their Manhattan campus in order to encourage its students to go primary care?

Now their Long Island campus charges $40k per year for a campus geared toward training primary care physicians?

One hand giveth. One hand taketh away?

My assumption (emphasis on ass as no one knows yet really), is that it'll be free like NYU main.

Interesting to note it will be a 3 year MD program, reminiscent of the 3-year program at the main campus. For the current 3-year program, admission to the track is accompanied by conditional automatch into a specific residency there at their main hospital upon graduation.

I wonder if this new program is going to be the same, where it takes in 40 people per year with a primary care training spot for residency already reserved for them.

Also, color me pretty surprised by this move. Didn't think NYU was all that interested in churning out primary care docs, especially considering that the "shortage" isn't really an issue in Manhattan or Long Island. I thought their free tuition explanation was a bunch of bunk, and they just wanted to improve their yield for students cross-admitted to other high ranked programs where nearly everyone specializes. Good to see my cynicism disproved.

I highly doubt that this medical school will also get the free-tuition waiver that the main medical students currently (and in the future) receive. The reasoning behind the 3 year track seems to be partially (if not completely) financial in nature, for the students to save 1 year in tuition costs.

Also class of 40 sounds reasonable for what will probably be a pseudo-satellite medical school campus of NYU.

 

[efle]

I highly doubt that this medical school will also get the free-tuition waiver that the main medical students currently (and in the future) receive. The reasoning behind the 3 year track seems to be partially (if not completely) financial in nature, for the students to save 1 year in tuition costs.

Also class of 40 sounds reasonable for what will probably be a pseudo-satellite medical school campus of NYU.

The optics would be pretty bad if they claimed the free tuition was to encourage primary careers, and then denied free tuition only to the people at their primary oriented program. Would prove the cynicism was justified after all. Guess we'll see!

 

[Unlimited Apps]

The optics would be pretty bad if they claimed the free tuition was to encourage primary careers, and then denied free tuition only to the people at their primary oriented program. Would prove the cynicism was justified after all. Guess we'll see!

Yea that is also a good point. But the fact that they are reducing their current NYU main student body because of the new tuition waiver makes me think that providing free tuition to an additional 40 students every year on a separate campus will be highly unlikely.

 

[Darrow O'Lykos]

I've snooped around and found that despite the recency of this news, there isn't a way to apply for the 3-year program at this new campus without having already applied to NYU this cycle, and their main campus deadline has passed.

Are they realistically looking to matriculate 40 students starting next year as reported?

 

[efle]

I've snooped around and found that despite the recency of this news, there isn't a way to apply for the 3-year program at this new campus without having already applied to NYU this cycle, and their main campus deadline has passed.

Are they realistically looking to matriculate 40 students starting next year as reported?

It might pop up in AMCAS later this cycle as a separate application from the main NYU site. They probably will be aiming to start up ASAP; one of the newer schools filled out a class in less than six months. Can't recall which one, but it was insane, something like it went live on AMCAS in March and did the entire applications/interviews/decisions process by August.

 

[efle]

@gyngyn does the above ring any bells? It might have been in CA?

 

[gyngyn]

@gyngyn does the above ring any bells? It might have been in CA?

Yes, CUSM did it though AMCAS within 6 months.
CN"U" filled their first class without even using AMCAS, just FAXes and paypal!

 

[Darrow O'Lykos]

It might pop up in AMCAS later this cycle as a separate application from the main NYU site. They probably will be aiming to start up ASAP; one of the newer schools filled out a class in less than six months. Can't recall which one, but it was insane, something like it went live on AMCAS in March and did the entire applications/interviews/decisions process by August.

Gotchya. I'll keep my eye out then. It's definitely an interesting prospect. In other news: TCU-UNTHSC's new joint school received preliminary accreditation and just went live on AMCAS this week.

Also, that NYU student newspaper said something about starting in September 2019, which would be a whole 2 months after main campus students start. Interesting.

 

[907914]

It might pop up in AMCAS later this cycle as a separate application from the main NYU site. They probably will be aiming to start up ASAP; one of the newer schools filled out a class in less than six months. Can't recall which one, but it was insane, something like it went live on AMCAS in March and did the entire applications/interviews/decisions process by August.

Washington State University did the same a few years ago - didn’t even open on AMCAS until February or March, but they got around 700 applicants and filled the whole class by July...

 

[efle]

And that was only using WA residents, right? I'm sure a private school in NYU could get a great class together in a matter of weeks if they wanted.

I remember CNU managed to get a 516 MCAT median for their first class in a half cycle, and that was at a for-profit pharm school "university" with no federal loans available.

 

[MyOdyssey]

So people here are predicting that NYU-LI will have no trouble filling their initial class in 2-4 months even if the price tag is $95,000/year?

 

[907914]

So people here are predicting that NYU-LI will have no trouble filling their initial class in 2-4 months even if the price tag is $95,000/year?

Pre-meds are thirsty for that MD.

 

[allantois]

So people here are predicting that NYU-LI will have no trouble filling their initial class in 2-4 months even if the price tag is $95,000/year?

There are some podunk DO schools that have no trouble filling their class at that price, why would NYU?

 

[MyOdyssey]

There are some podunk DO schools that have no trouble filling their class at that price, why would NYU?

So you're saying NYU-LI could charge $120,000/year and still easily fill its initial class in 2-4 months?

 

[efle]

So you're saying NYU-LI could charge $120,000/year and still easily fill its initial class in 2-4 months?

Easily. CNU filled in a matter of months with a 516 MCAT median, and they didn't even offer government loans.

For an MD in a very desirable location, plenty of people out there who won't be scared away by the pricetag.

 

[MyOdyssey]

Easily. CNU filled in a matter of months with a 516 MCAT median, and they didn't even offer government loans.

For an MD in a very desirable location, plenty of people out there who won't be scared away by the pricetag.

But NYU-LI is focused on admitting and training future primary care physicians who won't make as much and they'll be training and perhaps settling down in a very expensive place.

 

[907914]

But NYU-LI is focused on admitting and training future primary care physicians who won't make as much and they'll be training and perhaps settling down in a very expensive place.

Luckily your average 22-26 year old future MS1 has no sense of financial planning.

 

[efle]

But NYU-LI is focused on admitting and training future primary care physicians who won't make as much and they'll be training and perhaps settling down in a very expensive place.

You'll notice when you get to medical school that a lot of people come from backgrounds where money is an afterthought, if thought about at all. It will not be tough to find 40 people interested in internal medicine residency who can handle the expense.

 

[MyOdyssey]

You'll notice when you get to medical school that a lot of people come from backgrounds where money is an afterthought, if thought about at all. It will not be tough to find 40 people interested in internal medicine residency who can handle the expense.

So for people from family wealth of this magnitude getting a MD is more a matter of prestige/status than a means of generating wealth beyond what they already have access to?

It seems that there should be easier ways (both financially and time commitment wise) of picking up that prestige and status.

 

[allantois]

So for people from family wealth of this magnitude getting a MD is more a matter of prestige/status than a means of generating wealth beyond what they already have access to?

It seems that there should be easier ways (both financially and time commitment wise) of picking up that prestige and status.

Is this a Socratic dialogue?

 

[efle]

So for people from family wealth of this magnitude getting a MD is more a matter of prestige/status than a means of generating wealth beyond what they already have access to?

It seems that there should be easier ways (both financially and time commitment wise) of picking up that prestige and status.

I mean, yeah. Imagine one sub-specialized physician marries another sub-specialized physician, or some other kind of high-income professional, and has a kid (plenty of people in my class fit this). If that kid wants to get an MD too and match internal medicine, the parents aren't going to refuse to help pay for it just because it doesn't promise enough wealth...

Their motivations for pursuing medicine might be just as good as anyone else's. Maybe they're in it for the patients. They just happen to come from a family that can pay the tuition and rent while they're doing it. According to the AAMC, about 30% of medical students finish their MD with zero debt. You will have many classmates for whom the finances of their MD are never much of a concern.

 

[MyOdyssey]

Is this a Socratic dialogue?

Is it?

 

[Princeton Medical Student]

I am willing to bet a solid 5 points of MCAT scores that this school will be tution free. No way in hell would NYU make their main med school tution free, just to make a primary care only school that costs money.

 

[Goro]

And that was only using WA residents, right? I'm sure a private school in NYU could get a great class together in a matter of weeks if they wanted.

I remember CNU managed to get a 516 MCAT median for their first class in a half cycle, and that was at a for-profit pharm school "university" with no federal loans available.

It was more like 514. There's no shortage of talented pre-meds in CA who want to stay in CA.

 

[dodolol21]

I mean, yeah. Imagine one sub-specialized physician marries another sub-specialized physician, or some other kind of high-income professional, and has a kid (plenty of people in my class fit this). If that kid wants to get an MD too and match internal medicine, the parents aren't going to refuse to help pay for it just because it doesn't promise enough wealth...

Their motivations for pursuing medicine might be just as good as anyone else's. Maybe they're in it for the patients. They just happen to come from a family that can pay the tuition and rent while they're doing it. According to the AAMC, about 30% of medical students finish their MD with zero debt. You will have many classmates for whom the finances of their MD are never much of a concern.

I would imagine this sorta thing being even more common at T20 med schools. Of the many people I know in medical school, most of them have complete parental support.

 

[LuciusVorenus]

Interesting...

NYU To Open New Medical School on Long Island

 

[drcivil]

I have been following this as well. Very interesting. I am wondering when/how they will be accepting applications. I was thinking that in the future the fast track primary care program will be an option to select in the main NYU application. However given how late in the cycle it is, I am assuming NYU is no longer accepting secondaries. So will this be a separate application this year? Any thoughts?

 

[DrFortiusNatando]

Yes, I saw last fall that they were applying for accreditation. Looks like they will not have final ok until March.

Obviously, with only 24 spots available, they could probably offer these to students who are currently on WL at main NYU.

However, I am not sure they will get the best applicants for their mission of training the next generation of primary care by just going to their main NYU WL. They would have needed to recruit specifically for this program I think, as there would be a phenotype that is ideal for this program who may not have applied to NYU initially, or will have already committed to enroll at a place like UCSF, known for its primary care emphasis, by March 2019.

The phenotype will also likely be someone older, with a good amount of primary care clinical experience, who is less likely to decide they want to do orthopedics or neurosurgery. The average direct-from college med school applicant has little real world experience to draw from, and will be more of a risk to jump to another specialty, which will doom the new medical school to failure if too many students do this. (I know this as our primary care residency program used to be seen as the easier residency program, compared to IM, but more than half of the graduates were then applying to specialty fellowships like Cards and GI. It was clear that they just wanted the name of our institution on their application, but it was easier to get into the primary care residency as compared to the traditional IM program).

 

[Walter Raleigh]

What does "a good amount of primary care clinical experience" look like? A couple years working as a medical assistant? Three or four years as an RN, wanting a career change? More esoteric stuff, like Green Beret combat medics providing primary care to the local population?

 

[drcivil]

Just to raise a hypothetical. What if despite rigorous screening and selecting, at the end of 3 years someone in this program decides they have a strong desire to do something outside of primary care. Understandably, I am sure it might not go over well with faculty, making it difficult to get strong recommendations. Aside from the negative optics, would this even be possible? Could someone leaving this program after 3 years participate in the match for a non-primary care residency?

 

[DrFortiusNatando]

What does "a good amount of primary care clinical experience" look like? A couple years working as a medical assistant? Three or four years as an RN, wanting a career change? More esoteric stuff, like Green Beret combat medics providing primary care to the local population?

Any of these might count. Probably not so much the medical assistant, but depending on their other EC's and maturity, it might seem clear that they are committed to a career in primary care. The adcoms here will really need to be looking for an entire narrative that points to a commitment to primary care, with significant clinical experience and EC's to back this up, and hopefully, maturity. They will know it when they see it - and yes, it could be the RN looking for a career change or the Green Beret.

 

[jjj4]

I have been following this as well. Very interesting. I am wondering when/how they will be accepting applications. I was thinking that in the future the fast track primary care program will be an option to select in the main NYU application. However given how late in the cycle it is, I am assuming NYU is no longer accepting secondaries. So will this be a separate application this year? Any thoughts?

They will have their own application. It should be available to be selected on AMCAS once AAMC processes it - estimated to be late this month or early next month.

 

[DrFortiusNatando]

Just to raise a hypothetical. What if despite rigorous screening and selecting, at the end of 3 years someone in this program decides they have a strong desire to do something outside of primary care. Understandably, I am sure it might not go over well with faculty, making it difficult to get strong recommendations. Aside from the negative optics, would this even be possible? Could someone leaving this program after 3 years participate in the match for a non-primary care residency?

Yes, that is why the adcom has to be so careful in selecting their first few classes. I think the appeal of free tuition and only 3 years of medical school would entice a lot of medical students to the program. However, I can certainly envision that many pre-med students, especially those with no real world experience, will want to change their mind during medical school. And NYU's love of high stats students, if carried over to this program, does not always encourage those with the most experience and maturity to apply.

I can not even imagine where they are going to recruit these students starting this late in the cycle for this year.

 

[LuciusVorenus]

Yes, that is why the adcom has to be so careful in selecting their first few classes. I think the appeal of free tuition and only 3 years of medical school would entice a lot of medical students to the program. However, I can certainly envision that many pre-med students, especially those with no real world experience, will want to change their mind during medical school. And NYU's love of high stats students, if carried over to this program, does not always encourage those with the most experience and maturity to apply.

I can not even imagine where they are going to recruit these students starting this late in the cycle for this year.

"NYU Long Island School of Medicine will serve as NYU’s second medical school and will be the only accelerated three-year MD program focused on primary care, including internal and community medicine, pediatrics, OB/GYN and surgery and offering students a conditional acceptance to an NYU Winthrop residency slot through the National Resident Matching Program (NMRP) upon matriculation."

I guess it's not all "traditional" primary care

 

[Walter Raleigh]

@gorowannabe, how would they recruit such students in general? I can't imagine there are very many Green Beret combat medics applying to medical school. Are there any ECs more common than a nurse looking for a career change or a former Green Beret looking to deliver primary care? I gather that Peace Corps wouldn't cut it. Perhaps combat medic or other medical positions in the military might...however, there are not that many veterans applying to medical school.

 

[DrFortiusNatando]

Most likely as this is what they list on the fast track for the Manhattan Campus

Early, Conditional Residency Acceptance | NYU Langone Health

As a three-year MD student, you are ranked to match with the NYU School of Medicine residency program. If you choose to do so, you are free to interview with and rank other residency programs as well.

Yes, they do already have some experience with this type of program, and it seems to work fairly well, in the small scale that they operate right now. (They usually have one spot for EM, one spot for plastic surgery, etc). But since they are marketing this as for "primary care", it will not be good optics if a lot of people of the 24 admitted opt out and go for dermatology, plastic surgery, ENT, etc. And if they choose high stat students without much real world experience, that is what will happen.

 

[DrFortiusNatando]

@gorowannabe, how would they recruit such students in general? I can't imagine there are very many Green Beret combat medics applying to medical school. Are there any ECs more common than a nurse looking for a career change or a former Green Beret looking to deliver primary care? I gather that Peace Corps wouldn't cut it. Perhaps combat medic or other medical positions in the military might...however, there are not that many veterans applying to medical school.

An applicant who has done addiction research and several years of working in addiction medicine clinic, along with strong EC's with homeless, etc comes to mind as someone who I would feel confident has a future in primary care, as they have already shown commitment and dedication in their years after college. Another applicant might be someone who has worked as med asst in pediatrician office, and dedicated 100's of hours to volunteering with children at a family shelter. There are many permutations of what might count as mature experience - not just green beret. But if I were ADCOM here, I would know that the success of the program depends on a high percentage of students staying in a primary care field - which is broad as they have defined it. But if half the class changes their mind and goes into dermatology, Interventional radiology, and ENT, then they have failed in their mission. And taking high stat kids right from undergrad will be too risky.

 

[bobbitybob]

Just got an email about applying; I guess they are sending it to everyone who applied to NYU

 

[WildWing]

NYU asked Student Doctor Network to help get the word out about its new medical school:

"New York University today announced that it is creating a new, three-year medical school on the NYU Winthrop Hospital campus in Mineola, Long Island. NYU Long Island School of Medicine will have a curricular focus on training and producing primary care physicians. Additionally, full-tuition scholarships will be offered to all students in its MD degree program regardless of merit or financial need."

Here's the press release:
NYU To Open New Medical School on Long Island

Here's the school website:
medli.nyu.edu

@NYULI Admin can answer any questions you may have about the school. They are recruiting the first class of students for July 2019.

 

[mariposas905]

Do you guys think it would still be worth it to apply here with low stats (508) if we have a strong passion for primary care/working with underserved and experiences that can back it up? Or will NYU likely stick to its high stat applicant population?

 

[920820]

Any information on whether this program will permit you to pursue a fellowship to specialize after completing a residency in an eligible specialty?

@NYULI Admin