OD students and pre-Optom.

[rpie]

It is refreshing to read the enthusiasm of student doctors, and the drive of pre-optometry students to learn as much as possible in order to do well when interviewed on campus.

Being an OD in a group private practice for 19 years, and also having a chance to teach interns as an adjunct clinical professor, I commend your efforts and welcome every one of you to the Optometric profession!

As you being your Optometric career, I hope you will take note of how far our profession has come. Up until the early 1980?s Optometry was a profession that prescribed glasses & Contacts, and was unable to use any pharmaceuticals. We now provide full scope primary eye care, which includes glaucoma treatment, injectables in some states and even laser procedures in Oklahoma. Unfortunately, these advances were always protested by Ophthalmology, and once again we are under attack because Ophthalmology wants Optometry to stop doing laser procedures. I encourage all of you; whether you are starting Optometry school, or getting ready to graduated and go in practice, keep the enthusiasm for our profession! Unify together (student and post graduates) in order keep up a good fight to stop Ophthalmology from dictating what Optometry can do.

As a former Optometric educator, I believe that the scope of Optometric practice should reflect the advances and changes in the Optometric education.


Best of luck to all

rpie

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[xmattODx]

It is refreshing to read the enthusiasm of student doctors, and the drive of pre-optometry students to learn as much as possible in order to do well when interviewed on campus.

Being an OD in a group private practice for 19 years, and also having a chance to teach interns as an adjunct clinical professor, I commend your efforts and welcome every one of you to the Optometric profession!

As you being your Optometric career, I hope you will take note of how far our profession has come. Up until the early 1980?s Optometry was a profession that prescribed glasses & Contacts, and was unable to use any pharmaceuticals. We now provide full scope primary eye care, which includes glaucoma treatment, injectables in some states and even laser procedures in Oklahoma. Unfortunately, these advances were always protested by Ophthalmology, and once again we are under attack because Ophthalmology wants Optometry to stop doing laser procedures. I encourage all of you; whether you are starting Optometry school, or getting ready to graduated and go in practice, keep the enthusiasm for our profession! Unify together (student and post graduates) in order keep up a good fight to stop Ophthalmology from dictating what Optometry can do.

As a former Optometric educator, I believe that the scope of Optometric practice should reflect the advances and changes in the Optometric education.


Best of luck to all

rpie

But you, Dr. Rpie, must also realize that there is a large segment of the optometric community who have no interest in these so called 'advances', and who beleive they are short-sighted and potentially harmful to the population and profession. (Specifically the desire for surgery, injectables and most oral medications.)

 

[rpie]

But you, Dr. Rpie, must also realize that there is a large segment of the optometric community who have no interest in these so called 'advances', and who beleive they are short-sighted and potentially harmful to the population and profession. (Specifically the desire for surgery, injectables and most oral medications.)

I have a difficult time believing that there is a large optometric community that is not supportive of advancing Optometry. However, I can still recall when the push for therapeutics began, there were a few older ODs that had ?no interest? in using pharmaceuticals, but
for the benefit of Optometry we all fought together to get prescribing privileges. This forced organized medicine to recognize Optometry as a primary eye care profession.

Injectables and Oral meds, I cannot imagine not being able to use them, especially the orals. I routinely see at lease 1-2 patients a week that I Rx orals for in order to treat their lid infections. As far as the desire to do surgery, just because a law is passed allowing ODs to do certain surgical procedures, not all ODs will be doing them. Surely, you should understand that Optometry needs to change and expand over time to keep its rightful place in health care. If Ophthalmology had its way, the Optometrist would be a refraction technician with out the ability to prescribe contact lenses. Optometry had to fight to be able to prescribe contacts. When the first ridged contact lenses came out around 1930?s and again when the first soft contact lens came out late 1960?s MD?s claimed that contact lenses were in the same classification as a drug, and only MD?s can prescribe medications.

Regards-

rpie

 

[xmattODx]

I have a difficult time believing that there is a large optometric community that is not supportive of advancing Optometry. However, I can still recall when the push for therapeutics began, there were a few older ODs that had ?no interest? in using pharmaceuticals, but
for the benefit of Optometry we all fought together to get prescribing privileges. This forced organized medicine to recognize Optometry as a primary eye care profession.

Injectables and Oral meds, I cannot imagine not being able to use them, especially the orals. I routinely see at lease 1-2 patients a week that I Rx orals for in order to treat their lid infections. As far as the desire to do surgery, just because a law is passed allowing ODs to do certain surgical procedures, not all ODs will be doing them. Surely, you should understand that Optometry needs to change and expand over time to keep its rightful place in health care. If Ophthalmology had its way, the Optometrist would be a refraction technician with out the ability to prescribe contact lenses. Optometry had to fight to be able to prescribe contacts. When the first ridged contact lenses came out around 1930?s and again when the first soft contact lens came out late 1960?s MD?s claimed that contact lenses were in the same classification as a drug, and only MD?s can prescribe medications.

Regards-

rpie

While I appreciate the good fight that was been fought in the past current optometric education does not allow for surgery and would have to be revamped considerably. I do not agree that optometry's rightful place is in the "medical" field. Optometry in the direction it is headed is trying to have its cake and eat it too. We will be squeezed out in the end, not being able to do the medical care some want and no longer being need to refract. Traditional optometry is the sane ground. So students pay attention in your VT , low vision, public health classes.

 

[ico2k8]

I wouldn't say at all that there is a large group in optometry that is unwilling to change or fight for change in our profession. Although I am just starting my studies as an optometry student, I feel, as does the great majority of our class, that the push toward being able to practice full scope medical optometry is something that we will be well trained to do when we finish our studies. I refuse to be just someone who refracts patients and prescribes them glasses. Optometrists coming out of school now are highly educated in pharmacology as well as ocular and systemic diseases, making us very qualified to be able to prescribe the oral meds. that we would need to. The only way we will be respected by the medical community is if we show them that we are capable and well qualified to practice optometry in the way it is meant to be practiced. It is our responsibility to advance the profession.

 

[rpie]

I wouldn't say at all that there is a large group in optometry that is unwilling to change or fight for change in our profession. Although I am just starting my studies as an optometry student, I feel, as does the great majority of our class, that the push toward being able to practice full scope medical optometry is something that we will be well trained to do when we finish our studies. I refuse to be just someone who refracts patients and prescribes them glasses. Optometrists coming out of school now are highly educated in pharmacology as well as ocular and systemic diseases, making us very qualified to be able to prescribe the oral meds. that we would need to. The only way we will be respected by the medical community is if we show them that we are capable and well qualified to practice optometry in the way it is meant to be practiced. It is our responsibility to advance the profession.

Bravo ICO2K8! You are showing the fire and passion that is needed to keep Optometry advancing and hold its place as an integral part of medicine. Ophthalmology fears that the Optometry will eventually take over most of the duties of the general Ophthalmologist, forcing them to do fellowship training in one of the subspecialties of ocular plastics, pediatrics/strabismus, glaucoma, corneal/cataract, and retina.

I have found working with these subspecalists beneficial because not only do they co-manage, they referred me patients that needs monitoring like a person with diabetic retinopathy that does not have a primary eye care provider. This type of referral was un heard of 15 years ago, and is direct result form what we all fought for. Optometry will always have a bright future as long as we keep advancing. I will take it in good faith that although xMattODx may not agree with where Optometry is headed, he will join all ODs in the effort to keep advancing Optometry.

 

[mdtpham]

If optometrists could expand into the "medical" field and push for certain rights that only ophthalmologists currently have (e.g. LASIK), why shouldn't opticians be able to do refractions and expand their scope of practice as well?

 

[rpie]

If optometrists could expand into the "medical" field and push for certain rights that only ophthalmologists currently have (e.g. LASIK), why shouldn't opticians be able to do refractions and expand their scope of practice as well?

One thing you must understand is that there are no national standards or educational criteria for becoming an optician. Unfortunately in many States there is no licensing laws and many Opticians learn their skills while on the job. In Claif. I believe that Opticians are some what regulated and have the ability to fit contacts if they pass the NCLE or ABO. In order for Opticians to expand their field, standardized education and licensing must be established.

 

[cpw]

in texas you don't even need a high school degree to call yourself an optician.. just a job at lenscrafters, etc. There have to be national standards for opticians to be able to refract.

I think it should be with direct MD or OD supervision as well.. otherwise there will be millions of people who just had "eye exams" who have diabetic and hypertensive problems.... but still see 20/20.

 

[Bravehrt]

Rpie,

Hi, I?m a pre-optometry student at UCSB and I admire your enthusiasm and leadership in the progress of optometry. I agree that optometrist must continue to strive for advancements in the field in order for optometry field to remain competitive. However, I am still divided in this war between optometrists and ophthalmologists over rights to provide vision care. To me there seems to be some obvious differences between optometry and ophthalmology because of the different admissions process and curriculum. So my questions would be why is the future of optometry geared toward obtaining the rights of ophthalmologists? At what point would there be a need to have different schools for optometrist and ophthalmologist if they provide the same vision care? Finally does anyone have a different vision for optometry that is not directed toward the rights of ophthalmologists? Can we end this war or is it engrained in the future progress of optometry?

-Bravehrt

 

[rpie]

Rpie,

Hi, I?m a pre-optometry student at UCSB and I admire your enthusiasm and leadership in the progress of optometry. I agree that optometrist must continue to strive for advancements in the field in order for optometry field to remain competitive. However, I am still divided in this war between optometrists and ophthalmologists over rights to provide vision care. To me there seems to be some obvious differences between optometry and ophthalmology because of the different admissions process and curriculum. So my questions would be why is the future of optometry geared toward obtaining the rights of ophthalmologists? At what point would there be a need to have different schools for optometrist and ophthalmologist if they provide the same vision care? Finally does anyone have a different vision for optometry that is not directed toward the rights of ophthalmologists? Can we end this war or is it engrained in the future progress of optometry?

-Bravehrt

Bravehrt-

Optometry has positioned it self as a primary eye care provider, like your PCP but only for your eyes. By having the ability to provide services that includes some surgical procedures like laser and lid procedures, full scope primary eye care status will be achieved. This does not mean that OD s should abandon the traditional roots of refracting, contacts, VT, Low Vision, It means that depending upon the comfort level of the practicing OD, that person will have the freedom to be able to proved as little or all of the services within the scope of Optometric practice.

Many MDs feel that OD s are trying to get Laser, and surgical privileges because Optometry?s ultimate goal is it to do invasive surgeries such as, cataract removal, retinal procedures and Lasik. I do not believe that Optometry is interested in doing these types of invasive ocular surgeries.

The reason Ophthalmology and Optometry have an over lap in scope of practice is because the numbers of people needing ocular surgery is small. This has forced the general Ophthalmologist to look at different revenue base like dispensing glasses, fitting contacts, and essentially practicing Optometry. The Ophthalmology Sub-specialists, (those that have completed fellowship training in glaucoma, pediatrics/strabismus, corneal/cataract, ocular plastics, retina and neuron) usually do not have this problem because these are the surgeons , that in many cases have to repair and rehabilitate the General Ophthalmologists problems, in addition to receiving referrals form ODs PCPs, etc. (Speaking with may specialists and sub-specialists like neurologists and endocrinologist, I was surprised to find out that they preferred referring to the sub-specialists Ophthalmologist rather than the general Ophthalmologist.

I believe that the ? war with Ophthalmology? will only be resolved when Ophthalmology recognizes and respects Optometry and what the Optometric education is. It took time for the MDs to finally recognize and respect the DO s, so I am always hope full that some day this will be the case for the OD s.

Best of luck in OD school!

rpie

 

[meb302]

Rpie,

I couldn't agree any more with you about how great it is to see so many future and current optometrists working towards expanding the profession. What I feel needs to be said that has not been stated too clearly is that optometrists are not looking to take over the opthalmologist's surgical procedures. Honestly, none of us want the responsibility or cost that comes with surgery and its malpractice rates. If we were interested in surgery, we would all enter opthamology. Simply said, optometry looks to gain the rights to laser procedures such as removals around the eye as well as more simplistic approaches. Also, injectibles (which from what I understand is not too complicated) would allow our profession to diagnose possible eye diseases with better efficiency. Optometry will continue to expand, and it is the opthamologist's insecurities that we are taking over their profession that is creating this debate. Until the MDs realize that surgery is their side of the business, this debate will continue.

Matt
Just for clearification, currently I am a senior at FSU applying to optometry school.

 

[mdkurt]

Rpie,

I couldn't agree any more with you about how great it is to see so many future and current optometrists working towards expanding the profession. What I feel needs to be said that has not been stated too clearly is that optometrists are not looking to take over the opthalmologist's surgical procedures. Honestly, none of us want the responsibility or cost that comes with surgery and its malpractice rates. If we were interested in surgery, we would all enter opthamology. Simply said, optometry looks to gain the rights to laser procedures such as removals around the eye as well as more simplistic approaches. Also, injectibles (which from what I understand is not too complicated) would allow our profession to diagnose possible eye diseases with better efficiency. Optometry will continue to expand, and it is the opthamologist's insecurities that we are taking over their profession that is creating this debate. Until the MDs realize that surgery is their side of the business, this debate will continue.

Matt
Just for clearification, currently I am a senior at FSU applying to optometry school. I have recently been accepted to OSU and SCO schools of optometry

Just for "clearification", I'd like you and rpie to cough up an exact list of surgeries ODs should be doing. You're both a little vague on this point. "Lasers and removing stuff around the eye" seems a little vague. Please break it down for me in terms I can understand.

 

[stompy]

You're a senior in undergrad and you can't spell....I'm ashamed...

 

[meb302]

Just for "clearification", I'd like you and rpie to cough up an exact list of surgeries ODs should be doing. You're both a little vague on this point. "Lasers and removing stuff around the eye" seems a little vague. Please break it down for me in terms I can understand.

Sorry I couldn't be more specific and provide more examples. I clearified my position as an undergraduate to maybe help explain why I can't come up with any. I know, from word of mouth, that there are laser procedures that optometrists could become efficient with that are not related to LASIK surgery. Despite my lack of examples, my point is that I feel optometry is not trying to take away from ophthalmology ( happy stompy, I corrected my error ).

Matt

 

[mdkurt]

Sorry I couldn't be more specific and provide more examples. I clearified my position as an undergraduate to maybe help explain why I can't come up with any. I know, from word of mouth, that there are laser procedures that optometrists could become efficient with that are not related to LASIK surgery. Despite my lack of examples, my point is that I feel optometry is not trying to take away from ophthalmology ( happy stompy, I corrected my error ).

Matt

Thanks. I just wanted to establish that you don't know what you're talking about. That really helped to "clearify" things.

 

[VA Hopeful Dr]

Vague answers and misspelling of clarification aside, I think the point he's trying to make is that most ODs would be satisfied with YAGs, ALTs, oral med prescribing rights, and injections if the mood in the statehouse is a generous one. Now I know that some want more and some want less (I don't want a rehashing of the stuff on the opthalmology forum), but my personal opinion is that if ODs could do YAGs and oral meds, you'd not hear much from the PAC for a very long time.

 

[rpie]

Vague answers and misspelling of clarification aside, I think the point he's trying to make is that most ODs would be satisfied with YAGs, ALTs, oral med prescribing rights, and injections if the mood in the statehouse is a generous one. Now I know that some want more and some want less (I don't want a rehashing of the stuff on the opthalmology forum), but my personal opinion is that if ODs could do YAGs and oral meds, you'd not hear much from the PAC for a very long time.

Kurt?s animosity and arrogance has reared its ugly head. (Look at the Ophthalmology board) MBE302: hang tight, Just because you have a spelling error does not mean anything and, for Kurt to hammer on an undergraduate is unprofessional and immature.

Cheers-

 

[JennyW]

Kurt?s animosity and arrogance has reared its ugly head. (Look at the Ophthalmology board) MBE302: hang tight, Just because you have a spelling error does not mean anything and, for Kurt to hammer on an undergraduate is unprofessional and immature.

Cheers-

I've always found Kurt to be more than reasonable. We disagree on some things, but I've always found him to be civil and acknowleding of other points of view.

Jenny

 

[meb302]

Thanks for the backup rpie. While I may just be an undergraduate, I feel that I do have a valid opinion about my future profession. I think Kurt is being a little too harsh on the details, and not accepting the general point of my statement. Once more, every profession will go through expansions, yet I believe most optometrists are not looking to take-over surgeries performed by MDs. If you have a response to that Kurt, I think you are the one that has no clue what he is talking about...

Matt

 

[stompy]

All in good fun meb, all in good fun...

 

[mdkurt]

Kurt?s animosity and arrogance has reared its ugly head. (Look at the Ophthalmology board) MBE302: hang tight, Just because you have a spelling error does not mean anything and, for Kurt to hammer on an undergraduate is unprofessional and immature.

Cheers-

Sorry, but spelling errors chafe on me. That goes for MDs, DOs, family, etc. It also goes for you too, rpie. I can't remember ever seeing a "ridged" contact lens. We all have postgraduate educations, for crying out loud. As for hammering on an undergraduate, I'm just trying to show that meb302 does not have an enlightened opinion. If you're going to say that optometric laser use is OK, then you have to tell me which lasers you're referring to in order for us to have a discussion. I'm sure that you can agree, rpie, that optometrists probably shouldn't be doing focal treatments.

 

[rpames]

I don't believe spelling errors are big deal in an online forum. If we were writing to a patient or to a school or anything that really mattered, maybe it would be a big deal. But arguing over spelling on SDN is just dumb. I suck at spelling, that is why I married an English teacher!