Official 2013-2014 IM Residency WAMC (What Are My Chances) Thread

[Imnoglbln]

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Step 1: USMLE: 210 Comlex: 515
Research: 1 First Author Publication (recent)
1 " (undergrad)
School: PCOM
Would like to match into a place like Hershey, chances? I know I only just started 3rd year but I'm looking for places to audition at, I would really like to get an ACGME (or dual) residency that has plentiful in-house fellowships. Any helpful suggestions?

Any recommendations please? ACGME in PA/NJ/NY/MD would be nice.

 

[laconfidential]

Any recommendations please? ACGME in PA/NJ/NY/MD would be nice.

Dude, come back next year. At this point in my third year I was gung-ho ob/gyn. I now plead temporary insanity.

My best advice to you is do well your third year and get your step 2 score up because a 210 is an app killer at a lot of places. You can worry about auditions later, it's not like you can set them up a year in advance even if you wanted to.

 

[gutonc]

I am relatively new IM PD. I've been asked to present on "WAMC" to some medical students. I've read all 463 posts here and I'm trying to know my audience to provide some basically helpful advice for any 4th year that might show up.

To that end....

Types of 4th year students applying to IM.

#1. Tower of accomplishments. Top scores, generally AOA, Top 25 medical school, Research +/-. Desires ambitious match aka "best" possible program.

#2. Geography/Family First. Decent AMG scores, no red flags. Desires match in a particular area, usually due to family reasons

#3. One and only one place will do. For whatever reason, student desires match to one program far above all others.

#4. Late to the game // Switch to IM from another field. Usually reasonable AMG stats, but LORs or research from another area.

#5. Poor applications. Poor scores, step failures, bottom school, no research. Desires some match.

#6. Delusional. Students who think that they are in one of the above 5 categories who are really in one of the other categories.


I have about an hour to talk and wanted to hit on some thoughts for each of the #1-5. Am I missing any?

I like the list so far.

Others to think about are:

Disparate app: Low Step 1 with high Step 2 and AOA or PhD; High Steps with bad clinical grades and LORs; etc.

Looking for Mr. Goodbar: Has 1 or 2 absolute conditions (not geographic), usually related to fellowship placement or research.

Dr. Average: Has Steps that are 230±15, Mostly HP in clinicals with a smattering of P and H (or whatever), Good (but not "walks on Normal Saline") LORs, "some" "research", etc.

 

[Antiphosphatase]

No. Your steps are fine.

Your list is top heavy save a few programs. You might be fine, but I'd expand it since your app is very numbers-y and light on the EC's (although your involvement in orchestra is a +, but not sure how much that counts).

Thanks, I appreciate the advice.

 

[mazzynaqsh]

out of the 4 letters of recommendation we are allowed to send to programs, for an IMG can 2 be clinical and 2 be research or is it better to have 3 clinical and 1 research? research letters are pretty strong, but what combination is the best? thanks again.

 

[IMPD]

out of the 4 letters of recommendation we are allowed to send to programs, for an IMG can 2 be clinical and 2 be research or is it better to have 3 clinical and 1 research? research letters are pretty strong, but what combination is the best? thanks again.

Depends somewhat on the rest of your app. Also depends on whether you are an off-shore citizen IMG or a out-of-hemisphere non citizen IMG.

For offshore candidates: If your clinicals are spread out or at less-recognized places, then having good clinical letters is the most important and I would like to see 3.

For out-of-hemisphere applicants: Still prefer clinical letters, UNLESS you are relying on your superstar research to get you in the door.

The basic problem is that everyone says "Research, research, research" to IMGs, because it helps differeneniate your application in a positive way. However, you are most likely applying for a clinically focused training program (not research pathway).

The single biggest worry of a PD is that his recruits will have all the smarts and be unable to do the actual work. Happens not infrequently.

 

[johndoe3344]

Depends somewhat on the rest of your app. Also depends on whether you are an off-shore citizen IMG or a out-of-hemisphere non citizen IMG.

For offshore candidates: If your clinicals are spread out or at less-recognized places, then having good clinical letters is the most important and I would like to see 3.

For out-of-hemisphere applicants: Still prefer clinical letters, UNLESS you are relying on your superstar research to get you in the door.

The basic problem is that everyone says "Research, research, research" to IMGs, because it helps differeneniate your application in a positive way. However, you are most likely applying for a clinically focused training program (not research pathway).

The single biggest worry of a PD is that his recruits will have all the smarts and be unable to do the actual work. Happens not infrequently.

What about for an AMG? Is it at all a "red flag" to have done research, to have publications, but not to have a research letter?

 

[not so calm now]

Following up on that question, for an AMG with significant research experience, is it helpful to have one letter from a research advisor, even if that research was before med school? (I worked full-time prior to med school).

More generally, what is the breakdown of letters you find most helpful? Our school has an internal medicine department chair's letter which is counted the same as a regular letter. Due to the way our school's scheduling is, I never worked with a medicine attending for >2 weeks, and I feel like I have stronger letters in other specialties where I worked with the same attending for 4-6 weeks, just because they got to know me better. Would just one letter from a medicine attending be ok, in addition to the chairman's letter?

(edited for clarification: I'm asking is it ok to have one letter from a medicine attending, two letters from other specialty attendings or a research advisor, and the department/chairman's letter for my 4?)
Thanks for your help, it's awesome to get feedback from a PD!

 

[mazzynaqsh]

thank you for your reponse, its amazing to get feedback from a PD! I am an offshore U.S. IMG with only 3 months of U.S. clinical experience at Mount Sinai and UC Davis, with 2 great clinical letters from these places, 2 good research letters, but I was thinking to replace one of these research letters with a letter from my medical school back in India, but my main issue is that out of all my recommendation letters, the only one that is from a medicine attending is from my medical school, my U.S. LOR's are all from other specialties than medicine?

 

[CDI]

Depends somewhat on the rest of your app. Also depends on whether you are an off-shore citizen IMG or a out-of-hemisphere non citizen IMG.

For offshore candidates: If your clinicals are spread out or at less-recognized places, then having good clinical letters is the most important and I would like to see 3.

For out-of-hemisphere applicants: Still prefer clinical letters, UNLESS you are relying on your superstar research to get you in the door.

The basic problem is that everyone says "Research, research, research" to IMGs, because it helps differeneniate your application in a positive way. However, you are most likely applying for a clinically focused training program (not research pathway).

The single biggest worry of a PD is that his recruits will have all the smarts and be unable to do the actual work. Happens not infrequently.

I'm a hybrid of your two scenarios, out-of-hemisphere citizen IMG, but relying more on clinical research from NIH.

I'm banking more on PDs knowing observerships are fairly worthless except for the sole purpose of getting an LOR.

 

[CDI]

thank you for your reponse, its amazing to get feedback from a PD! I am an offshore U.S. IMG with only 3 months of U.S. clinical experience at Mount Sinai and UC Davis, with 2 great clinical letters from these places, 2 good research letters, but I was thinking to replace one of these research letters with a letter from my medical school back in India, but my main issue is that out of all my recommendation letters, the only one that is from a medicine attending is from my medical school, my U.S. LOR's are all from other specialties than medicine?

Off-shore, US-IMG, India? Smells like KMCIC.

 

[disorder]

Hi all. I posted here before to get a general sense of what programs I should be applying to (thanks for all the input!). I have an actual list of some 40+ programs and wanted to see if 1) there were any that I could cut out, or 2) any that would be good that I haven't considered.

School: allopathic mid-tier state school
Step 1: 250
Step 2: let's say 240-250 (will release scores late september before MSPEs go out)
Class Rank: Top 1st or 2nd quintile (TBD)
3rd Year Clinical Grades: H in Medicine and OB/GYN, HP in rest.
4th Year Clinical Grades: H in Medicine Sub-I, H in Away Rotation (Medicine Elective)
AOA: No
Research/Pubs: 3 pubs (1 first author), 3 abstracts (published in supplement to a top journal), a few posters, all in IM
ECs: pretty interesting ECs (lots of leadership, medical education stuff, teaching stuff, student clinic, founded a club that did an international mission, etc etc)

Northeast: Yale, MGH, BWH, BIDMC, BU, MSSM, NYU, Cornell, Columbia, Upenn, Rochester, Brown, Tufts, Monte, UPitt, Jefferson
Southeast: Duke, UAB, Emory, UNC, Vandy, UVA, Osler, Bayview, UMD
Midwest: UMich, NW, UChicago, Mayo, U of Washington, UWisc, UIowa, Ucolorado, Case Western
West: UCSF, UCLA, UCSD, Stanford, OHSU, WashU, Baylor, UTSW

Additionally, how many interviews would I have to go on to be relatively safe that I'll match?

Thanks again for all of your help.

Kinda sorta a reach, you'll get some love from these.

You'll match with that list. But, two demerits (and not that inconsequential) are lack of AOA and the medical school you herald from for the big dawgs.

 

[jdh71]

Following up on that question, for an AMG with significant research experience, is it helpful to have one letter from a research advisor, even if that research was before med school? (I worked full-time prior to med school).

More generally, what is the breakdown of letters you find most helpful? Our school has an internal medicine department chair's letter which is counted the same as a regular letter. Due to the way our school's scheduling is, I never worked with a medicine attending for >2 weeks, and I feel like I have stronger letters in other specialties where I worked with the same attending for 4-6 weeks, just because they got to know me better. Would just one letter from a medicine attending be ok, in addition to the chairman's letter?

(edited for clarification: I'm asking is it ok to have one letter from a medicine attending, two letters from other specialty attendings or a research advisor, and the department/chairman's letter for my 4?)
Thanks for your help, it's awesome to get feedback from a PD!

Chair/Department letters are becoming industry standard. And I don't know why because they tend to be "form" type of letters, but I imagine back in the day everyone was clamoring for the "Chairman" to write them a letter, it got to be ridiculous, so they just started writing a letter for everyone and now we have what we have today. It's stupid. And useless. Whatever. So assume that is one.

I think that a letter from your research mentor describing your skillz as a research person is a good thing for your application and you should number this one in with one of your four at places that are "research heavy" or any place where you are trying (wether sincere or not) to make that case that you want to be a big time researcher, stay in academic medicine, blah, blah, blah, yadda, yadda, yadda.

Otherwise, make sure you have three more letters to otherwise also attach. Use three for places that are not crazy research powerhouses - and you could still attach the research letter if you know it's good and sings your praises in general (there is obvious carry over) though. And use two clinical letters plus your research letter as described above.

 

[IMPD]

I'm banking more on PDs knowing observerships are fairly worthless except for the sole purpose of getting an LOR.

This is a common misunderstanding.

Of course PDs know that observerships are primarily for obtaining LORs, but that is to miss the more important reasons that PDs like observerships.

They show that the applicant has: ambition, motivation, adaptability, willingness to actually leave their home country.

These are not small details.

How much Systems Based Practice, much less medical knowledge do these experiences impart? Somewhere between some and not much. Ideally, I'd have all my IMG applicants do rotations at hospitals that I knew and where I knew the evaluators. Not going to happen. As it is, we develop experience with the high volume places in NYC.

One final word about observeships - continuity is a plus. More than one in a place is good, as long as it is with patient care.

Do not do an observership without exposure to patients. No matter what it is called, it doesn't add to your app.

 

[IMPD]

What about for an AMG? Is it at all a "red flag" to have done research, to have publications, but not to have a research letter?

No. We all realize that 95% of residents are not going on to research careers. We like the skills that research requires (think of it like organic chemistry), but we do not need some validation from your mentor that you're going to cure cancer. You're not.

 

[jdh71]

Well shiz!

A real IM PD.

So glad you are here.

Keep posting.

Now I don't feel like I have to any more.

 

[johndoe3344]

.

 

[gutonc]

How many interviews do I need to go on to be "safe"?

Would 10 or so of the "top 30" schools and 5 or so of the "mid tiers" make me safe enough?

Recognizing that the question is essentially unanswerable until after the fact...I'll say "yes".

I will also point out that you may despise the "Top Tier" programs (I did) and like the mid tier places better. Only 1 of the "Top Tier" programs that I interviewed at wound up in my Top 5. The rest were in the 8-14 range and I didn't even rank 1 of them.

 

[sj3333]

Hey everyone, I posted back here a couple months ago and got some great advice. I have a prelim list of programs set up and was wondering if anyone had any feedback or any ideas for additional programs. If anyone had any thoughts on the DC programs or MUSC Id appreciate it as those are my ideal landing places. Also I realize that UVA and NYU and possibly Tulane are shots in the dark. Thanks!

Mid Tier Northeast MD program
Step1 227
Preclinical all pass
Clinical all high pass (I know could this all be more generic haha)


GW
Georgetown
Washington Hospital center (DC)
Miami
FAU
UF gainesvile
USF
Med college of GA
LSU
Tulane
Hopkins-Bayview
HopkinsSinai
U Maryland
BU
Tufts
Umass
NYU
SUNY brooklyn
Einstein montefiore
Wake Forest
Drexel
Temple
Jefferson
Brown
MUSC
UVA
VCU
Jefferson/Christiana (DE)
Uconn
Univ of Tenn
UVermont

 

[lazymantis]

I go to a low/middle tier state school in Texas. I am a 5th year student. Not too good pre-clinical grades. Clinical Rotations are half pass and half high pass. Some volunteer but no research. I think I rank in the 4th quartile.
Step 1 - 212
Step 2- 238
Good recommendations. High pass on sub-intership and great recommendation from attendant.

With such terrible stats, am I able to get into a University program or should I just apply for the community programs. Do I have any chance for interviews at a middle tier university program at all? 'm planning to apply for over 100 - 150 programs. Is it true that since I'm from the South, it would be harder to get into a program in the NorthEast Area? I heard the North usually do not take many students from the South.

I would be willing to go anywhere for a good residency. Any advice is greatly appreciated on specific university that I may have a chance for interviews.

 

[heidi13]

Hi guys...I posted earlier, but didn't get any responses. Hope you'll help me out!

Step 1: 212 (I know I know)
Step 2 CK/ CS: 248, COMLEX PE Passed
School: DO school
Class Rank: Top third
Grades in Clerkship: All A's (We do A through F)
AOA: Member of SSP
Research/ Publications/ Extracurriculars: 2 research stints, 2 papers from one (including first author) and another paper from the other (first author), the usual extracurriculars AMA, SOMA, etc
Overview of where you want to end up: I'm open to going anywhere, but my home area is Chicago (interested in Loyola, Rush, and UIC) or I'm interested in the West Coast. I have very strong letters of recommendation and have done 2 aways so far, and will be doing 2 more. Currently doing a subI and getting really great feedback from the attendings in charge of my team. Mainly looking for ACGME university based programs, but I know with my Step 1 scores this might be a little tough. Hoping that my Step 2 score helps along with my research background. Do you think my Step 1 will keep me away from some programs that have a screening cut off score?

Thanks 🙂

 

[IMPD]

With such terrible stats, am I able to get into a University program or should I just apply for the community programs. Do I have any chance for interviews at a middle tier university program at all? 'm planning to apply for over 100 - 150 programs. Is it true that since I'm from the South, it would be harder to get into a program in the NorthEast Area? I heard the North usually do not take many students from the South.

So, you have a mediocre application, but don't get too hard on yourself. The work of being a doctor is not always captured by student's performance. PDs know this.

For folks with applications such as yours, my advice is:
#1. Meet with your Dean of Student Affairs to get particular help in polishing your application. Nothing kills your ERAS app worse than filling it out in a state of depression/despair/clouded thinking. You're not the first student with not great scores.

#2. "University Program" has varying levels of selectivity and meaning. If your goal is to go to any University Program, than yes, there is a chance.

#3. As has been stated many times here, the secret to getting interviews is to apply, apply, apply.

As for geographic issues. This is a fascinating topic for me. Over the last few years we've interviewed dozens of people from Georgia/Florida/California/Arizona. They almost never end up matching with us, as they find spots closer to home. This track record of people self-selecting back to their geographic home is very very very very common. So common that some PDs will avoid students from "unlikely" regions.

However, there is certainly no concrete rule about geographical restrictions. It's just that there is a big difference between selective programs that do draw nationally, and pretty much everyone else, where geography is the #1 factor.

 

[yettus]

Thanks in advance for your advice. One thing to mention, I am couples matching with my fiance. He is applying for radiology. He is a competitive applicant (various academic awards, probable AOA, step 1 260, research during 2nd and 3rd year w/publications pending). We are sending applications to all parts of the country, but are concerned that radiology will hurt our chances of interviewing outside of the midwest. Thanks again! We could really use your help!

Step 1: 246
Step 2: 245
School: top 40 state school
Class Rank: top 25%
Grades in Clerkships: Honors - Medicine, Surgery, Peds, Ob/gyn, and all electives; High pass - Family Med; Pass - Psychiatry
AOA: possibly senior AOA (has not been announced)
Research/Publications/Extracurriculars: 3 manuscripts (1 undergrad, 1 undergrad at NIH, 1 while working at NIH for 2 years before med school), 1 manuscript to be submitted (from med school as 2nd author), several abstracts and poster presentations. Leadership role for various interest groups, co-founder of now annual poster day for all 2nd year medical students. Dance groups and varsity cheerleading in undergrad, perform in annual med school talent show with couple dance groups. Minimal community service during med school, decent amount while working at NIH for two years.

Programs:
California - UCSF, Stanford, UCSD, UCLA, Harbor-UCLA, Cedars-Sinai, USC, UC Irvine
Colorado - U of Colorado
DC - George Washington, Georgetown
Illinois - Northwestern, Rush, U of Chicago, U of Illinois Chicago, Loyola, CMS at Rosalind Franklin
Indiana - IU
Kentucky - UK, U of Louisville
Massachusetts - BIDMC, MGH, BWH, BU, Tufts
Maryland - Hopkins, Hopkins-Bayview, U of Maryland
Michigan - U of Michigan, Detroit Med Cntr/Wayne State, Henry Ford, William Beaumont
Missouri - St Louis, WashU
Ohio - U of Cincinnati, OSU, Case, MetroHealth
Pennsylvania - Drexel, Pennsylvania Hospital, Temple, Thomas Jefferson, UPenn, UPMC
Tennessee - Vanderbilt
Utah - U of Utah
Washington - U of Washington

We have been told that we are applying to too many places, but we are not sure how/where to cut down. We would rather over apply and match together, than be too confident and end up apart because we didn't apply broadly enough.

So I guess I'm wondering if maybe it's not worth it to apply to some of the more competitive programs (Boston, Cali) since it will be really tough to couples match there...or am I a strong enough applicant to help him get interviews at some of the mid-tier programs? And then are places like the Kentucky programs a waste of money or good safe options...just in case? We just picked programs in parts of the country we would be willing to live in, but beyond that, we don't really know what our best options are.

Thanks again!

 

[Syncity]

So, you have a mediocre application, but don't get too hard on yourself. The work of being a doctor is not always captured by student's performance. PDs know this.

For folks with applications such as yours, my advice is:
#1. Meet with your Dean of Student Affairs to get particular help in polishing your application. Nothing kills your ERAS app worse than filling it out in a state of depression/despair/clouded thinking. You're not the first student with not great scores.

#2. "University Program" has varying levels of selectivity and meaning. If your goal is to go to any University Program, than yes, there is a chance.

#3. As has been stated many times here, the secret to getting interviews is to apply, apply, apply.

As for geographic issues. This is a fascinating topic for me. Over the last few years we've interviewed dozens of people from Georgia/Florida/California/Arizona. They almost never end up matching with us, as they find spots closer to home. This track record of people self-selecting back to their geographic home is very very very very common. So common that some PDs will avoid students from "unlikely" regions.

However, there is certainly no concrete rule about geographical restrictions. It's just that there is a big difference between selective programs that do draw nationally, and pretty much everyone else, where geography is the #1 factor.

I have to say, I find your advice very sensible and you give a good insight into the rationale of a PD. Keep it up!

 

[not so calm now]

Chair/Department letters are becoming industry standard. And I don't know why because they tend to be "form" type of letters, but I imagine back in the day everyone was clamoring for the "Chairman" to write them a letter, it got to be ridiculous, so they just started writing a letter for everyone and now we have what we have today. It's stupid. And useless. Whatever. So assume that is one.

I think that a letter from your research mentor describing your skillz as a research person is a good thing for your application and you should number this one in with one of your four at places that are "research heavy" or any place where you are trying (wether sincere or not) to make that case that you want to be a big time researcher, stay in academic medicine, blah, blah, blah, yadda, yadda, yadda.

Otherwise, make sure you have three more letters to otherwise also attach. Use three for places that are not crazy research powerhouses - and you could still attach the research letter if you know it's good and sings your praises in general (there is obvious carry over) though. And use two clinical letters plus your research letter as described above.

Very helpful, thank you! I am interested in a research/academic career, although not at all in the field that I have previous experience in. I'm pretty certain I want to do a fellowship in general internal medicine. We were told the chairman's letter was designed to be a more objective and useful assessment of our performance in the rotation and sub-I (like a mini MSPE, just for internal medicine) instead of another glowing rec from a faculty member, which I guess is less useful since they usually don't say anything bad.

 

[lazymantis]

Thank you for your wonderful advise. I feel better now. At least there is hope for a match. I will apply to alot of community programs too. Is it easier to get into a smaller or larger community program. Example:
program #1 has 10 positions and inteviews about 100 applicants. Program # 2 has 50 positions and interviews about 500 applicants. That's both about 10% chance of success if you are granted a inteview.

What are some of the good community programs close to the states around Texas ? Once again, thanks for your encouragement. I needed it.

 

[laconfidential]

Hi guys...I posted earlier, but didn't get any responses. Hope you'll help me out!

Step 1: 212 (I know I know)
Step 2 CK/ CS: 248, COMLEX PE Passed
School: DO school
Class Rank: Top third
Grades in Clerkship: All A's (We do A through F)
AOA: Member of SSP
Research/ Publications/ Extracurriculars: 2 research stints, 2 papers from one (including first author) and another paper from the other (first author), the usual extracurriculars AMA, SOMA, etc
Overview of where you want to end up: I'm open to going anywhere, but my home area is Chicago (interested in Loyola, Rush, and UIC) or I'm interested in the West Coast. I have very strong letters of recommendation and have done 2 aways so far, and will be doing 2 more. Currently doing a subI and getting really great feedback from the attendings in charge of my team. Mainly looking for ACGME university based programs, but I know with my Step 1 scores this might be a little tough. Hoping that my Step 2 score helps along with my research background. Do you think my Step 1 will keep me away from some programs that have a screening cut off score?

Thanks 🙂

I would apply to every ACGME program in Chicago if that's where you want to be (except UC and NW, waste of $$). Can't offer any help about the programs out west. I think unfortunately your step 1 will keep you out of the three you listed unless you do an away and really impress somebody. Just a hunch, could be wrong. At least your CK score is better.

 

[mercaptovizadeh]

The chairman letter seems like the dumbest thing ever, only slightly better than AOA. Someone who knows nothing about you will just rehash your CV, step 1, and clerkship evaluations in a letter/essay format. He has no specific details or personal impressions, it's just a summary written up by some secretary and signed by the chair.

Med-peds is even worse, with the demand for both medicine and pediatrics chairs. Which leaves us with just 1-2 letters from people who actually know us.

 

[not so calm now]

The chairman letter seems like the dumbest thing ever, only slightly better than AOA. Someone who knows nothing about you will just rehash your CV, step 1, and clerkship evaluations in a letter/essay format. He has no specific details or personal impressions, it's just a summary written up by some secretary and signed by the chair.

Med-peds is even worse, with the demand for both medicine and pediatrics chairs. Which leaves us with just 1-2 letters from people who actually know us.

Yeah...and now it's something that you just have to do because everyone does it and if you don't use it I'm sure it looks suspicious 🙄

 

[Member1985411]

Top 30 med school
Step 1: 228
Step 2 CK: 237
CS: passed
Cumulative Rank: probably ~60th of ~120 in the class
Grades - High pass in all 3rd year clerkships except surg (pass), high pass in 1st AI, Honors in 2nd AI and ICU month. Pass all 1st year grades, HP/Honors all 2nd year grades.
Research: 3 years between college and med school, 1 first author pub, 3 lower author pubs, 1 poster at a national conference
Other: Some volunteer positions, but nothing extensive. Solid letters from 3 big names in Internal Med at my school which is nice.

Looking at mostly Eastern schools, academic programs more than community

Applying to:
GW
Georgetown
UVA
VCU
Tufts
Beth Israel Deaconess
Boston Med Ctr
Maryland
Northwestern
Rush
U Chicago
Brown
Roger Williams
MUSC
Vandy
Duke
UNC


Like many others, I really have no clue really where I stand in relation to others, and what is out of reach for me, so any blunt advice would be appreciated.

 

[newguy69]

Hey Guys!

My goals are of doing heme/onc, GI, or cardiology. Want program that will set me up for a strong fellowship, not geographically restricted.

Here are my stats:
School Rank: Top 10-15
Step 1: 261
Year 3 grades: all pass (unfortunately I suck clinically, but evals/comments were good, nothing glaringly saying I suck)
Research: 1 manuscript submitted, 2 abstracts, 3 abstracts submitted 4 poster presentations all 1st author, 1 manuscript co-author submitted
EC: teaching, community service, etc
LoRs: 4 (2 IM, 1 Heme/onc, 1 GI)

How's my list?
JHU
MGH
BWH
UCSF
Stanford
Columbia
BIDMC
UPenn
Duke
Washington U
Cornell
Yale
Baylor
Mayo
U of Washington
U of Michigan
UT South Western
Northwestern
Emory
U of Chicago
Mt. Sinai
Vanderbilt
UPitt
NYU
Boston U
University of Hawaii
Cleveland Clinic

Its quite a bit...I would like to take out 10ish...which ones should go?

Thanks in advance!

 

[KansasChiefsFan]

School: low tier allopathic state school
Step 1: 240
Step 2 CK: 246
Class Rank: Top 10%
3rd Year Clinical Grades: H in medicine, surgery, FM, psych. P in ob & peds. No red flag comments. All very positive-hardworking, team player, etc
AOA: Nominated. Pending.
Research/Pubs:
-2 published journal articles, neither as first author. Both in journals with high impact factor and with big name PI. 1 first author paper currently under review.
-2 published abstracts in high impact factor journals (1 as first author, 1 as third author).
-2 oral presentations at national conferences, 2 poster presentations
LoRs: 3. One from Chair of IM at my school, one from IM clerkship director, one from my research PI-internationally recognized name
ECs:
Lots of volunteering, fundraising, tutoring, leadership

East Coast:
Duke
BWH, MGH, BI
Boston Medical Center
UPenn
Hopkins

Midwest:
UMichigan
Univ. Hospitals Case
UPMC
Ohio State
CCF
Indiana University
Northwestern
UChicago
U Illinois Chicago
WashU
Mayo Clinic

West Coast:
UCSD
UC Irvine
UCLA
Stanford
UCSF

Any programs I should add to my list (I realize I got a lot of reaches on here)?

 

[Lonelymnt]

I am relatively new IM PD. I've been asked to present on "WAMC" to some medical students. I've read all 463 posts here and I'm trying to know my audience to provide some basically helpful advice for any 4th year that might show up.

To that end....

Types of 4th year students applying to IM.

#1. Tower of accomplishments. Top scores, generally AOA, Top 25 medical school, Research +/-. Desires ambitious match aka "best" possible program.

#2. Geography/Family First. Decent AMG scores, no red flags. Desires match in a particular area, usually due to family reasons

#3. One and only one place will do. For whatever reason, student desires match to one program far above all others.

#4. Late to the game // Switch to IM from another field. Usually reasonable AMG stats, but LORs or research from another area.

#5. Poor applications. Poor scores, step failures, bottom school, no research. Desires some match.

#6. Delusional. Students who think that they are in one of the above 5 categories who are really in one of the other categories.


I have about an hour to talk and wanted to hit on some thoughts for each of the #1-5. Am I missing any?

I fall into the #4 category and am looking for advice. I have been gearing my application towards a surgical sub specialty but now the reality of the situation has kicked in some and I am unlikely to match in that specialty. My "backup" plan has always been medicine since I felt I could match at a reasonable spot. Now I am unsure as I read through this thread. My major concern is I don't have strong LOR's at this point. I have only done medicine at my small community hospital and never got letters. I was planning on going back and getting letters from attendings, though I don't know how strong they will be nearly a year removed from my rotations.

As per usual:

Step 1:217 (548 COMLEX I)
Step 2 CK/ CS: 236 (522 COMLEX II)
School: DO School in PA
Class Rank: Top 25
Grades in Clekship: All A's on an ABCF scale.
AOA: Sigma Sigma Phi (DO version of AOA)
Research/ Publications/ Extracurriculars: 1 pub in Neuro, 3-4 pubs in Surg sub specialty. Many EC's
Overview of where you want to end up: would love to match at an ACGME University program with hopes of PCCM Fellowship. I have no geographic limitations and would be fine living anywhere.

Any recommendations on places to apply or how to address applying would be appreciated.

 

[235009]

Top 30 med school
Step 1: 228
Step 2 CK: 237
CS: passed
Cumulative Rank: probably ~60th of ~120 in the class
Grades - High pass in all 3rd year clerkships except surg (pass), high pass in 1st AI, Honors in 2nd AI and ICU month. Pass all 1st year grades, HP/Honors all 2nd year grades.
Research: 3 years between college and med school, 1 first author pub, 3 lower author pubs, 1 poster at a national conference
Other: Some volunteer positions, but nothing extensive. Solid letters from 3 big names in Internal Med at my school which is nice.

Looking at mostly Eastern schools, academic programs more than community

Applying to:
GW
Georgetown
UVA
VCU
Tufts
Beth Israel Deaconess
Boston Med Ctr
Maryland
Northwestern
Rush
U Chicago
Brown
Roger Williams
MUSC
Vandy
Duke
UNC


Like many others, I really have no clue really where I stand in relation to others, and what is out of reach for me, so any blunt advice would be appreciated.

you'll match with that list

Hey Guys!

My goals are of doing heme/onc, GI, or cardiology. Want program that will set me up for a strong fellowship, not geographically restricted.

Here are my stats:
School Rank: Top 10-15
Step 1: 261
Year 3 grades: all pass (unfortunately I suck clinically, but evals/comments were good, nothing glaringly saying I suck)
Research: 1 manuscript submitted, 2 abstracts, 3 abstracts submitted 4 poster presentations all 1st author, 1 manuscript co-author submitted
EC: teaching, community service, etc
LoRs: 4 (2 IM, 1 Heme/onc, 1 GI)

How's my list?
JHU
MGH
BWH
UCSF
Stanford
Columbia
BIDMC
UPenn
Duke
Washington U
Cornell
Yale
Baylor
Mayo
U of Washington
U of Michigan
UT South Western
Northwestern
Emory
U of Chicago
Mt. Sinai
Vanderbilt
UPitt
NYU
Boston U
University of Hawaii
Cleveland Clinic

Its quite a bit...I would like to take out 10ish...which ones should go?

Thanks in advance!

As you may imagine the across the board passes during 3rd year is a red flag. I recommend you take step 2 CK immediately to try and prove that you could make a competent resident at least from a medical knowledge standpoint. The fact that you're at a top 10-15 school will help significantly but I think your list is a little top-heavy. Though I would expect you'll match with this list since i'm sure places like baylor, mayo, BU, UHawaii, and CC would be happy to have you. Not sure why you are applying to the last two though. I would definitely recommend swapping case for CC.

School: low tier allopathic state school
Step 1: 240
Step 2 CK: 246
Class Rank: Top 10%
3rd Year Clinical Grades: H in medicine, surgery, FM, psych. P in ob & peds. No red flag comments. All very positive-hardworking, team player, etc
AOA: Nominated. Pending.
Research/Pubs:
-2 published journal articles, neither as first author. Both in journals with high impact factor and with big name PI. 1 first author paper currently under review.
-2 published abstracts in high impact factor journals (1 as first author, 1 as third author).
-2 oral presentations at national conferences, 2 poster presentations
LoRs: 3. One from Chair of IM at my school, one from IM clerkship director, one from my research PI-internationally recognized name
ECs:
Lots of volunteering, fundraising, tutoring, leadership

East Coast:
Duke
BWH, MGH, BI
Boston Medical Center
UPenn
Hopkins

Midwest:
UMichigan
Univ. Hospitals Case
UPMC
Ohio State
CCF
Indiana University
Northwestern
UChicago
U Illinois Chicago
WashU
Mayo Clinic

West Coast:
UCSD
UC Irvine
UCLA
Stanford
UCSF

Any programs I should add to my list (I realize I got a lot of reaches on here)?

you're right, your list is top-heavy. if you end up getting AOA you might have a shot at a bunch of them but to be safe you should add a few more mid-tiers like UMD and jefferson.

 

[newguy69]

As you may imagine the across the board passes during 3rd year is a red flag. I recommend you take step 2 CK immediately to try and prove that you could make a competent resident at least from a medical knowledge standpoint. The fact that you're at a top 10-15 school will help significantly but I think your list is a little top-heavy. Though I would expect you'll match with this list since i'm sure places like baylor, mayo, BU, UHawaii, and CC would be happy to have you. Not sure why you are applying to the last two though. I would definitely recommend swapping case for CC.

Thanks for the response! Will see if I can squeeze in step 2 CK...UHawaii was there solely because its in Hawaii...i thought "hey if I don't match into any top ranking programs, might as well go to a place that is nice"...I'll add case too!

 

[Kal EI]

If your goal is to be a hospitalist, does it matter what tier residency program you go to (assuming good training of course)?

 

[235009]

Thanks for the response! Will see if I can squeeze in step 2 CK...UHawaii was there solely because its in Hawaii...i thought "hey if I don't match into any top ranking programs, might as well go to a place that is nice"...I'll add case too!

If you wanna be somewhere nice then apply to some programs in SoCal. Do you realize how far Hawaii is and how miserable that would be with such limited free time in residency?

 

[gutonc]

Thanks for the response! Will see if I can squeeze in step 2 CK...UHawaii was there solely because its in Hawaii...i thought "hey if I don't match into any top ranking programs, might as well go to a place that is nice"...I'll add case too!

I have heard nothing but bad things about that program, on all fronts. Teching, work hours, fellowship opportunities, etc. Tack on a cost of living that makes NYC seem affordable and you're better off matching in South Dakota and just going on vacation in Hawaii.

 

[sj3333]

*Sorry to repost

Hey everyone, I posted back here a couple months ago and got some great advice. I have a prelim list of programs set up and was wondering if anyone had any feedback or any ideas for additional programs. If anyone had any thoughts on the DC programs or MUSC Id appreciate it as those are my ideal landing places. Also I realize that UVA and NYU and possibly Tulane are shots in the dark. Thanks!

Mid Tier Northeast MD program
Step1 227
Preclinical all pass
Clinical all high pass (I know could this all be more generic haha)


GW
Georgetown
Washington Hospital center (DC)
Miami
FAU
UF gainesvile
USF
Med college of GA
LSU
Tulane
Hopkins-Bayview
HopkinsSinai
U Maryland
BU
Tufts
Umass
NYU
SUNY brooklyn
Einstein montefiore
Wake Forest
Drexel
Temple
Jefferson
Brown
MUSC
UVA
VCU
Jefferson/Christiana (DE)
Uconn
Univ of Tenn
UVermont

 

[californiahope]

I just posted this as a separate thread but maybe this is a more appropriate place to put it.

I just started third year and got a dismal step 1 score (196). I'm a DO student and I was hoping for an allopathic university program. My question is do I even have a shot anywhere or should I just apply to community programs. I have no geographical restrictions and will go anywhere.

 

[newguy69]

If you wanna be somewhere nice then apply to some programs in SoCal. Do you realize how far Hawaii is and how miserable that would be with such limited free time in residency?

You make a good point, SoCal would be just as nice.

I have heard nothing but bad things about that program, on all fronts. Teching, work hours, fellowship opportunities, etc. Tack on a cost of living that makes NYC seem affordable and you're better off matching in South Dakota and just going on vacation in Hawaii.

Now this information I did not know. I knew Hawaii is expensive but didn't know it had back teaching, work hours and fellowship opportunities...because of the negative responses from this place, perhaps I will remove from my list. Thanks for the info everyone!

 

[laconfidential]

*Sorry to repost

Hey everyone, I posted back here a couple months ago and got some great advice. I have a prelim list of programs set up and was wondering if anyone had any feedback or any ideas for additional programs. If anyone had any thoughts on the DC programs or MUSC Id appreciate it as those are my ideal landing places. Also I realize that UVA and NYU and possibly Tulane are shots in the dark. Thanks!

Mid Tier Northeast MD program
Step1 227
Preclinical all pass
Clinical all high pass (I know could this all be more generic haha)


GW
Georgetown
Washington Hospital center (DC)
Miami
FAU
UF gainesvile
USF
Med college of GA
LSU
Tulane
Hopkins-Bayview
HopkinsSinai
U Maryland
BU
Tufts
Umass
NYU
SUNY brooklyn
Einstein montefiore
Wake Forest
Drexel
Temple
Jefferson
Brown
MUSC
UVA
VCU
Jefferson/Christiana (DE)
Uconn
Univ of Tenn
UVermont

What are you looking for? It's hard to comment on any specifics without an idea of what you want.

You do have some IMG factories on there you could dump from the list.

 

[dozitgetchahi]

what other programs would you suggest?
i keep hearing things about metro IM what is the deal?

In your case,

Toledo
Wright State

 

[member1592]

Top 10 US Medical School by USNWR
Step 1-265
Step 2CK-Taking in November
Step 2CS-pass
Class Rank-Top 1/3
AOA: No
Grades: Honors: Surgery, Family Med, IM Sub-I; High Pass-Rest of third year rotations including Internal Medicine
Research: One first author, one poster/abstract at national conference
Extracurriculars-Volunteering, teaching etc
Programs: Stanford, UCSF, UCLA, Northwestern, Uchicago and Michigan. I'm not AOA and didn't honor my third year IM rotation and I will definitely will apply to more reasonable programs, but want to know my chances at these in particular because of significant other's job planning (she has consulting offices in SF, LA, Chicago and Detroit), but I want to subspecialize so I also want to make sure I go to a good program.

 

[235009]

*Sorry to repost

Hey everyone, I posted back here a couple months ago and got some great advice. I have a prelim list of programs set up and was wondering if anyone had any feedback or any ideas for additional programs. If anyone had any thoughts on the DC programs or MUSC Id appreciate it as those are my ideal landing places. Also I realize that UVA and NYU and possibly Tulane are shots in the dark. Thanks!

Mid Tier Northeast MD program
Step1 227
Preclinical all pass
Clinical all high pass (I know could this all be more generic haha)


GW
Georgetown
Washington Hospital center (DC)
Miami
FAU
UF gainesvile
USF
Med college of GA
LSU
Tulane
Hopkins-Bayview
HopkinsSinai
U Maryland
BU
Tufts
Umass
NYU
SUNY brooklyn
Einstein montefiore
Wake Forest
Drexel
Temple
Jefferson
Brown
MUSC
UVA
VCU
Jefferson/Christiana (DE)
Uconn
Univ of Tenn
UVermont

you are a very average candidate and you've done a good job of picking very average programs with a few reaches and a decent number of safeties. I'm a bit confused by some of your geographic choices like U of Tenn. You might want to consider dropping the two obvious IMG factories on your list (washington hospital center and SUNY downstate) and add a couple of programs that attract average US MDs.

I just posted this as a separate thread but maybe this is a more appropriate place to put it.

I just started third year and got a dismal step 1 score (196). I'm a DO student and I was hoping for an allopathic university program. My question is do I even have a shot anywhere or should I just apply to community programs. I have no geographical restrictions and will go anywhere.

IMO it would be a HUGE mistake for you to skip the osteopathic match!! You might have a tough time matching even at the lowest community ACGME program with such a low step 1 score. In fact I would think that many of these programs would prefer to take one of the many carib grads with more stellar scores than you. It's really not worth it to gamble with your future. Unfortunately doing IM at an osteo program is very limiting and the training is sub-par but with that score the goal should really be to become a practicing physician. Try to do your best during third year and boost your app but I don't think much would change with regard to my advice.

 

[sj3333]

Thanks for your reply, yeah Tennessee was a late addition just to bulk up the number of apps, I wont be applying there after all I dont think. Any state on the east coast or the gulf is fine with me. Any suggestions as to more reasonable programs to replace downstate and WHC with?

 

[meddy15]

DO Student trying for IM residency.

USMLE Step 1: 209
USMLE Step 2: 204
COMLEX 1: 498
COMLEX CE: awaiting results

Alright guys, in need of major advice!!! I know my step scores are horrible!!! Do I have a shot at all for any community allopathic IM programs?? I'm hesitant to apply, will I get any interviews or should I just stick with the Osteopathic match. I just applied to 17 DO programs yesterday, my Comlex is avg and awaiting CE scores so do you guys think i'm good for DO at least??

Anyways, I just really need to know should I just apply to a handful of community programs for the Allopathic match?? I wanted to know if I would have a shot for interviews.

Locations I'm looking at: Chicago, Oklahoma, Houston, Dallas, Florida, North Carolina, South Carolina.

Besides that, I'm an average applicant with good LOR's, grades, and extracurriculars.

 

[Medstud1988]

US MD student
Step 1: 230-235
Step 2: pending
Clinical grades: combination of high pass and pass. Probably top half of class, maybe top third but unlikely
1 abstract and poster presentation, not in internal medicine
No major extracurriculars, just some volunteering
No away rotations

I would like to go to the best possible IM program I can get into. I am hoping to get a fellowship in cards. Here is a list of some programs I am hoping for, I have heard everything from you need a 250 step 1 to have a shot to you should get in no problem.

Yale, Brown, dartmouth, cornell, nyu

Are these programs out of my range? If so, I would appreciate any recommendations on good programs that might be in my range

 

[gutonc]

Hey all,

Wanted someone's opinion on my app. I did really well on step 1 (241), then knocked myself wayyyyy back with a 230 on step 2.

(Beat jdh to it)

 

[notfromalaska]

School: Mid tier
Step 1: 256
Step 2 CK: 275+, CS Pending
Clinical Grades: School doesn't do honors, 89 in IM, 92 Peds 91 Surgery, 88 Psych 88 Family 87 OB GYN
Class Rank: 50th percentile (mostly due to poor first year grades)
AOA: No
Research: 1 publication pending, 2 poster presentations, currently on a 2 month research elective at a government institution
Extracurriculars: Volunteering overseas after first year, leadership role in a national health care reform advocacy organization, generic stuff
Letters: 3 IM (1 from chair), will be getting 1 more from research elective
Red Flags: Not sure if it is a red flag, but there is one comment from my psych rotation which will by on my deans letter along the lines of "Initially showed some unease and disorganization w/ challenging patients, but was eager to learn and incorporated recommendations from feedback, so skills showed improvement over time." It then goes on to describe improvements and other strengths. The rest of my comments are excellent.

My list is perhaps too ambitious:

West Coast:
Oregon Health and Science University
University of Washington
Stanford University
University of California San Diego
University of California San Francisco
UCLA

Midwest:
University of Chicago
McGaw Medical Center of Northwestern University
Rush University Medical Center
University of Cincinnati College of Medicine
Case Western Reserve University (Case Medical Center)
Cleveland Clinic
Ohio State University
University of Michigan

East Coast:
Georgetown University Hospital
Georgetown University Hospital/Washington Hospital Center
George Washington University
Massachusetts General Hospital
Brigham and Women’s Hospital
Boston Medical Center
Johns Hopkins University/Bayview Medical Center
Johns Hopkins University
New York University School of Medicine
Albert Einstein COM at Beth Israel
Icahn School of Medicine at Mount Sinai
Cornell
Columbia
Emory
Dartmouth

I would also appreciate any recommendations for programs - I am mostly looking for larger university programs. Thanks in advance for the feedback!