Official 2014-2015 Pulm/CCM Fellowship Application Cycle

[ams81]

Any one have info on SIU Pulm (no CCM) program in Springfield, IL. ?????

I got a last minute interview there tomarrow!!!

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[Leo Spaceman]

I am seriously considering ranking Cleveland Clinic #1. Can someone play devils advocate and try to convince me otherwise. Oh and you are not allowed to use the city of Cleveland in your argument, you have to focus solely on the program. And you can't use its relative lack of research, I view the amount of research expectation a huge plus of the program.

I love the CC as well and am ranking it ***very high, but it was more for the clinical piece + flex time than anything else. In fact, I was impressed WAY more than I expected to be.

Umm...did you see the fellows' research output? Most of it is case reports/case series, and frankly, done enough of that to pad up my CV for fellowship application. I want to do the REAL thing now if I'm going to do it.

"I view the amount of research expectation a huge plus of the program" - I'm not sure what you mean. There is NO research expectation. The flex time is yours to use as you please, which could be time in Dr Erzurum's/Dr Dweik's lab or time spent twiddling your thumbs at home. From what I know/have heard, when you're not on clinical time, you can do pretty much as you please with your time.

Also, formal training in research methodology is lacking, and though they are trying to set something up with CWRU, it's still very much in the works and they're figuring out 'how to pay for it'. Most other uni places can offer the same/on par clinical training with way better research opps that are already fully functional/well integrated, and have a LOT more research going on. They're very good at most stuff, and offer overall good training, but there's places doing better ILD/PH/COPD/Asthma and most other stuff elsewhere.

IF your focus is mainly clinical, can't really get much better.

P.S.:
To play that 'upwardly mobile' game in the US News ranking, they're focusing on safety which means....EVERY breath you take, every move you make, every line you place, every guy you trach, they'll be watching you ) Apparently all procedures are supervised by ?an attending I think.

 

[Green Man]

Allegheny sent general thank you letter. However, i sent thank you letters few weeks ago but no reply. Should I still email the rank me letter? and let my program director call for me

I would still email and also ask PD to call to show strong interest.

According to my PD, they're told to be very careful of what they tell applicants. So, many PDs choose not to say anything at all.

 

[Torsades42]

PGY-2 applying this upcoming summer - For those of you interviewing at great clinical programs that don't shove research down your throat (Mayo, CCF, etc.), how heavy is the research portion on your CV? I have don't anything outstanding thus far.

PGY 1: 2 case reports presented as posters at IM national meetings
PGY 2: 1 research project presented as a poster at ID Week (not pulm or CCM related, 1st author), 1 research project related to med being presented as a poster at a national meeting (third author), 1 oral presentation related to med ed being presented at a national meeting (first author)
In the works: 1 research abstract submitted to ATS (working on the manuscript now; 1st author); med ed related manuscript getting submitted soon (1st author)

I'm coming from a well known, clinically strong program in the Midwest. Is the lack of real (randomized control trial style research) going to be my bottle neck if I'm not interested into going into a research heavy program, but would like to get into a great clinical program with an academic flair? I ask because I still have some time and can try to get an elective switched for a research one to pump out something else too.

 

[Articuate]

I would still email and also ask PD to call to show strong interest.

According to my PD, they're told to be very careful of what they tell applicants. So, many PDs choose not to say anything at all.

Thanks. Gave my director the numbers of top 3. Its over now. Just prayer and going nuts till match day

 

[Leo Spaceman]

@jdh71 , what's your take on asking your PD to call. I did tell my #1 they were my #1, and nice notes to some others I want to rank highly, but not sure about the PD calling fellowship PDs. Is this the norm/recommended?

 

[jdh71]

@jdh71 , what's your take on asking your PD to call. I did tell my #1 they were my #1, and nice notes to some others I want to rank highly, but not sure about the PD calling fellowship PDs. Is this the norm/recommended?

I think it can help. I know it did in my case.

 

[Leo Spaceman]

I think it can help. I know it did in my case.

Thanks jdh. I guess I'll ask..

 

[firsttima]

Friendly reminder to all. Register for NRMP now. Deadline is 11/12/14. You need to do this in order to participate in the match. Also go to your myERAS and click on the top corner where it says update profile and make sure you have marked "yes" I am going to participate in the NRMP. Goodluck.

https://r3.nrmp.org/userHome

 

[Leo Spaceman]

ROL Finalized! GL to everyone.

 

[Leo Spaceman]

PGY-2 applying this upcoming summer - For those of you interviewing at great clinical programs that don't shove research down your throat (Mayo, CCF, etc.), how heavy is the research portion on your CV? I have don't anything outstanding thus far.

PGY 1: 2 case reports presented as posters at IM national meetings
PGY 2: 1 research project presented as a poster at ID Week (not pulm or CCM related, 1st author), 1 research project related to med being presented as a poster at a national meeting (third author), 1 oral presentation related to med ed being presented at a national meeting (first author)
In the works: 1 research abstract submitted to ATS (working on the manuscript now; 1st author); med ed related manuscript getting submitted soon (1st author)

I'm coming from a well known, clinically strong program in the Midwest. Is the lack of real (randomized control trial style research) going to be my bottle neck if I'm not interested into going into a research heavy program, but would like to get into a great clinical program with an academic flair? I ask because I still have some time and can try to get an elective switched for a research one to pump out something else too.

Hey Torsades,
IMO and experience, as long as you're coming from a strong residency program, and have some scholarly activity, you should be good. Everyone knows you can't be involved in RCTs/multi-center stuff unless you pair up with faculty doing those things, and people appreciate it is hard for residents to give the time/effort commitment those kinds of projects need.
I did have 4-5 research abstracts on my CV, but they were all for the most part retrospective chart reviews. On the other hand, some of my colleagues who ended up interviewing at Mayo/CCF, had possibly 1-2 of the same.
Can't stress enough the importance of being a good IM resident because it'll be your letters that count a LOT, and unless you've worked with PCCM faculty for a while, and they know you REALLY well, they won't be able to write you the I-know-this-dude-in-and-out-and-can-vouch-for-him kind of letters that IM faculty can. 3/4 of my letters were IM, the 4th PCCM letter was from a non-uni ICU doc that knew me well, and I got decent invites.
A couple of places did tell us upfront about the things they considered when they invited people, and boards scores (track record) and letters did figure prominently among those.

 

[desijigga]

PGY-2 applying this upcoming summer - For those of you interviewing at great clinical programs that don't shove research down your throat (Mayo, CCF, etc.), how heavy is the research portion on your CV? I have don't anything outstanding thus far.

PGY 1: 2 case reports presented as posters at IM national meetings
PGY 2: 1 research project presented as a poster at ID Week (not pulm or CCM related, 1st author), 1 research project related to med being presented as a poster at a national meeting (third author), 1 oral presentation related to med ed being presented at a national meeting (first author)
In the works: 1 research abstract submitted to ATS (working on the manuscript now; 1st author); med ed related manuscript getting submitted soon (1st author)

I'm coming from a well known, clinically strong program in the Midwest. Is the lack of real (randomized control trial style research) going to be my bottle neck if I'm not interested into going into a research heavy program, but would like to get into a great clinical program with an academic flair? I ask because I still have some time and can try to get an elective switched for a research one to pump out something else too.

You should be fine, Although this whole process is random. I been rejected at some places I thought was a shoe in, and got interviews from places I had no idea they would give me a whiff..

 

[CVS2020]

How do you rank this 4 programs. I wanted good clinical exposure with good work life balance, Not research heavy. I am thinking the order as below, Plz let me know if any one is more better

Wayne state/DMC
University of tennessee
Texas A&M Scott and White
Carilion clinic

 

[joesph]

I was interested in Stony Brook with ultrasound and interventional pulmonary programs as part of fellowship but I hear the IP doc might be leaving and I am really interested in IP or at least getting exposure

 

[iliketv01]

How would you guys rank these programs? Just trying to get other people's pov, I know ranking should be based on my experience and what I'm looking for but want some added insight from other people.

NYU
Baylor(CCM only)
Montefiore/Albert Einstein
North Shore LIJ
Winthrop
SUNY Stony Brook
SLU
Tulane
NBIMC
Albert Einstein Philadelphia

 

[matchpass]

Guys how many programs do you email saying that they are no 1. I was told by many PDs that they want to rank only people that are interested

 

[pulmcrit7]

Guys how many programs do you email saying that they are no 1. I was told by many PDs that they want to rank only people that are interested

Hmmm you should not tell more than 1 program that you are ranking #1.

 

[Green Man]

Guys how many programs do you email saying that they are no 1. I was told by many PDs that they want to rank only people that are interested

I emailed my number 1 saying "#1" and number 2 "ranked very highly". My PD is going to call both programs without saying a specific rank; just "top of my list".

 

[Leo Spaceman]

Guys how many programs do you email saying that they are no 1. I was told by many PDs that they want to rank only people that are interested

LOL! Only one of course. Don't by any means do otherwise. PDs can be pretty tight-knit and word gets around.

 

[Green Man]

Only 41 days left till the Match. I guess I'll have to refrain myself from decoding programs' replies on my love letters. Lol..

 

[matchpass]

Ok, but do you put any weight on how they respond to your email. For example, Thanks, you are among our top candidates we would be happy to have you here vs thank you, good luck in Match. Do you move to next program in case of the latter response

 

[rolltide1985]

Guys how many programs do you email saying that they are no 1. I was told by many PDs that they want to rank only people that are interested

Not to say programs don't do this, because I am clearly not privy to these sorts of behind-the-scenes discussions, but I don't think it makes any sense that PDs only rank people who are "interested." What's the incentive do to that?

For example, if they extended interviews to 50 applicants for 3 spots, then ranked only 20 applicants and filled all 3 then great for them. But when you deal with a pool of 20 applicants for 3 spots there is always the possibility that you won't fill, especially when people play these childish "you're my favorite <3 xoxo," and tell this to multiple programs. People lie. Their minds change. And if your class doesn't fill then you look bad, it wreaks havoc on your scheduling, and you have to scramble to fill that spot with someone that you probably didn't hold in the highest regard 3-4 months prior. So I dunno, to me not filling your class = worse disaster than ranking everyone and getting someone who may just be "meh" about coming to your program. But what do I know.

Anyone have any other insight?

 

[4success]

can anyone comment on how to rank the NYC progrmas? cornell, sinai, NYU? thank you!

any recs? seems like NYU has one of the best clinical, but also fellows work a lot. had a hard time guaging the clinical training at sinai. would appreciate any comments. thx.

 

[Leo Spaceman]

Ok, but do you put any weight on how they respond to your email. For example, Thanks, you are among our top candidates we would be happy to have you here vs thank you, good luck in Match. Do you move to next program in case of the latter response

I think people have said enough about this enough times already...that the perceived response from programs shouldn't affect how you rank these programs. I received a pretty nice response from the place I categorically said to that I was ranking #1, but kind of a lukewarm response from my #2, and none from my #3. It did make me feel a lil upset, but it ain't gonna change how I rank them.

 

[pulmcrit7]

Creating this rank list is harder than I expected. I know my #1-2 and places I least want to be but middle portion of the rank is hard to decide. I might need to come up with a point system to help me. I'm sure it's hard for the PDs too.

 

[ROBINHO]

I think people have said enough about this enough times already...that the perceived response from programs shouldn't affect how you rank these programs. I received a pretty nice response from the place I categorically said to that I was ranking #1, but kind of a lukewarm response from my #2, and none from my #3. It did make me feel a lil upset, but it ain't gonna change how I rank them.

Am sure u will be more upset if your number 1 ignored you, number 2 lukewarm and number 3 nice response. Nevertheless I agree we shd rank based on how we like programs

 

[proximal_tubule]

how would one go about even telling the PD in the email that you are going to rank them #1? also, is that not a violation of the match?

 

[Green Man]

Creating this rank list is harder than I expected. I know my #1-2 and places I least want to be but middle portion of the rank is hard to decide. I might need to come up with a point system to help me. I'm sure it's hard for the PDs too.

The Match Prism app from NRMP has a nice scoring system. Fun to try.. But I find myself going with guts for "middle" programs despite the scores.

 

[Leo Spaceman]

The Match Prism app from NRMP has a nice scoring system. Fun to try.. But I find myself going with guts for "middle" programs despite the scores.

Agreed! For those where the clinical piece is equivalent, I would rank them in order of where I'd like to live or how the call schedule suited my lifestyle.

 

[Leo Spaceman]

how would one go about even telling the PD in the email that you are going to rank them #1? also, is that not a violation of the match?

No, not a violation. Trying to finagle something out of someone or duress-ing something out of someone is. One PD told me that you should tell your #1 that you're ranking them #1.

 

[Leo Spaceman]

TGIF! 40 days to December 3rd. Happy weekend folks.

 

[Articuate]

Drum rolls

 

[Articuate]

39 days

 

[Articuate]

rank list certified. Good luck hommies!! The rest is up to some random computer algorithm

 

[exhale01]

I have a question for you guys...

If I have a guaranteed sleep fellowship spot should I take it versus entering the plum/cc match? I ultimately plan to do both fellowships. I received only 3 interviews for plum/cc this year so i think my odds of matching aren't that great (but you never know). The sleep match is before plum/cc match so I have to decide whether to take the sleep position before I would find out plum/cc match results.

Advice please.

 

[Articuate]

Ill go for the pulm cc. Sleep positions never fill. So you can scramble into sleep easily.

 

[exhale01]

Ill go for the pulm cc. Sleep positions never fill. So you can scramble into sleep easily.

Can you scramble into sleep if you don't enter the sleep match tho? I thought they only release the list of unmatched spots to those who submitted a rank list?

 

[DocDox]

Can you scramble into sleep if you don't enter the sleep match tho? I thought they only release the list of unmatched spots to those who submitted a rank list?

I went through a similar scenario last year. My scenario was I had 4 interviews for PCCM and didn't match. I didn't apply to sleep so I couldn't scramble into sleep fellowship and I don't know anyone who applied to sleep to give me the list of all the unfilled programs (although technically that would be illegal). So I had to call around to all the sleep programs (yup every single one) and see which ones where unfilled. By PCCM match day those number went down. So I found around 4 unfilled position and offered an interview at only one. So although the positions don't fill, by PCCM match day those positions start going down. So if you wait until after PCCM match 1) your not going to have access to the unfilled positions 2) those numbers are going to be less by December.
Recommendations: 1) match for sleep this year at a program where sleep is run by PCCM at a program you know you want to go to and network. That will improve your chances there as well as for the next match. It will also give you more time to work on research and study for boards all of which gunna make you more attractive next year. 2) you only have 3 interviews but most ppl match at their top three interviews anyways. So I think you have a good shot. But then again I had 4 last year and didn't match but I probably was just the exception. So take your chances with PCCM and then call around for sleep programs if you don't match. Bare in mind you gunna have less option interns of 1) location (gunna be a problem especially if you have family) 2) number of choices 3) whether or not sleep is in pulmonary or neurology department because that matters for you.
That's my two cents

 

[DocDox]

Forgot to add to recommendation #2 just because there are unfilled positions for sleep after PCCM match in December doesn't guarantee that your going to even get an interview much less get a position. Recall after my PCCM match there were only 4 position, all of which I applied to and got only one interview. And that's after sending SEVERAL emails/calling. So it may not be as simple as 'Articulate' makes it sound.

 

[jdh71]

How do you rank this 4 programs. I wanted good clinical exposure with good work life balance, Not research heavy. I am thinking the order as below, Plz let me know if any one is more better

Wayne state/DMC
University of tennessee
Texas A&M Scott and White
Carilion clinic

A&M at the top easy

The rest how you like them, though I wouldn't want to live in Memphis right now YMMV

 

[jdh71]

I was interested in Stony Brook with ultrasound and interventional pulmonary programs as part of fellowship but I hear the IP doc might be leaving and I am really interested in IP or at least getting exposure

Well. You better get THAT info nailed down TIGHT before you make your rank list. Email someone. Get HIS email. Email him. Be polite. This is YOUR career.

 

[jdh71]

How would you guys rank these programs? Just trying to get other people's pov, I know ranking should be based on my experience and what I'm looking for but want some added insight from other people.

NYU
Baylor(CCM only)
Montefiore/Albert Einstein
North Shore LIJ
Winthrop
SUNY Stony Brook
SLU
Tulane
NBIMC
Albert Einstein Philadelphia

Are you more of a critical care junkie??

 

[jdh71]

Ok, but do you put any weight on how they respond to your email.

I would say "No"

 

[jdh71]

I have a question for you guys...

If I have a guaranteed sleep fellowship spot should I take it versus entering the plum/cc match? I ultimately plan to do both fellowships. I received only 3 interviews for plum/cc this year so i think my odds of matching aren't that great (but you never know). The sleep match is before plum/cc match so I have to decide whether to take the sleep position before I would find out plum/cc match results.

Advice please.

One in the hand is worth TWO in the bush my friend.

Do your one year of sleep. FIRST. DEFINITELY.

 

[jdh71]

Ill go for the pulm cc. Sleep positions never fill. So you can scramble into sleep easily.

Not good advice.

 

[DocDox]

Not good advice.

My sentiments exactly

 

[jdh71]

Ok. My friends in the P/CC forum. I just finished a lone cowboy weekend (working days - we have a night guy who was about as busy during his time). Something that they will not tell you in training (and maybe some of you who have done some hospitalist work an relate to this a bit) is that you WILL BE the LAST HOUSE on the block. Can you stand in that gap?? Are you a bad enough dude to save the president. People who are clearly panicked or simply unable to deal with a situation will drop them off in YOUR unit. Everyone will look at you like, "Well doctor, what now?" Hell man. Someone I don't even know what the exact right thing to do, but you need to do something. Pick your training wisely. This weekend I saw 6 new consults, admitted 8 new patients, 6 of them sicker than eff, 3 patients I intubated myself, 5 lines placed, 1 dialysis cath, three bronchs (one with endobronchial bx's netting a CA dx), one trach replacement in the ED. It's NOT brag, just the truth of the job these days. I'm looking forward to a week and a half off, and getting back into clinic, where they are now funneling ILDs to me (because I'm good at them). Pick your training well.

(then pick your job well!)

Good luck guys.

 

[Phur]

Better person to call my number 1...?
PD- not the best english, never worked with, history of procrastinating (PD letter was late getting into ERAS despite 3-4 months notice)
associate PD - direct patient contact with, native english speaker/more articulate, but only about 3-4 years out of residency

 

[Leo Spaceman]

Better person to call my number 1...?
PD- not the best english, never worked with, history of procrastinating (PD letter was late getting into ERAS despite 3-4 months notice)
associate PD - direct patient contact with, native english speaker/more articulate, but only about 3-4 years out of residency

IMO have your assoc PD call or e-mail (as long as Mr Boss PD won't mind, and some might say, so what if he does). I don't see why e-mailing isn't the better of the two - no 'missed' calls on either end, gets the point across, less schedule-restricted for both sides, is definitely more convenient for the procrastinating sorts.

 

[Leo Spaceman]

Ok. My friends in the P/CC forum. I just finished a lone cowboy weekend (working days - we have a night guy who was about as busy during his time). Something that they will not tell you in training (and maybe some of you who have done some hospitalist work an relate to this a bit) is that you WILL BE the LAST HOUSE on the block. Can you stand in that gap?? Are you a bad enough dude to save the president. People who are clearly panicked or simply unable to deal with a situation will drop them off in YOUR unit. Everyone will look at you like, "Well doctor, what now?" Hell man. Someone I don't even know what the exact right thing to do, but you need to do something. Pick your training wisely. This weekend I saw 6 new consults, admitted 8 new patients, 6 of them sicker than eff, 3 patients I intubated myself, 5 lines placed, 1 dialysis cath, three bronchs (one with endobronchial bx's netting a CA dx), one trach replacement in the ED. It's NOT brag, just the truth of the job these days. I'm looking forward to a week and a half off, and getting back into clinic, where they are now funneling ILDs to me (because I'm good at them). Pick your training well.

(then pick your job well!)

Good luck guys.

How do we pick a job well? Couple of questions - does an IP fellowship end up paying well in the long run or enough of them around already? Will a lot of experience with ILD be as valuable? The place where I'm hoping I'll end up sees a lot of ILD; I'd say that is their strongest suit.
I know that my ROL is very different from what I thought it would be when the interviews came in. After the first few interviews, looking at how diverse training could be in different 'good' places, I decided that if there's one thing I wasn't going to compromise on, it would be clinical/procedural training though I had my heart set initially on places that would train me well s a 'physician scientist'.
I figured I could continue training as a researcher after fellowship, but would die of shame if I graduated a sissy ICU doc.