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Official 2017-2018 Psychiatry Interview Invite Thread

Discussion in 'Psychiatry' started by Carpe-Noctem, Sep 14, 2017.

  1. Stagg737

    Stagg737 2+ Year Member

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    I think so. I'm not overly concerned about matching (obviously a little afraid, but I think it's the healthy amount of nerves that most applicants feel), but I'm still a few interviews short of the number I'd really be comfortable at.

    I know one (maybe 2, can't remember the exact details about the second guy). One was a Carib grad that didn't get his interview until mid-December, ranked them as his top choice and got it. No idea how far down their list he was, but obviously worked out for him.
     
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  3. law14

    law14 2+ Year Member

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    That’s good to hear. I wonder how far down their lists most programs go? I heard one interviewer (average size program- 6 residents, I think) brag that they only went to #27 last year (and interviewed like 80). Hopefully most programs go further down the ranklist than that. I feel like I’m a decent applicant (>10 offers) who interviews reasonably well, but I still ideally would like to go into an interview with greater than 1-in-3 odds.
     
  4. EarlyCareerAcademicPsych

    EarlyCareerAcademicPsych 2+ Year Member

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    I would add to this - in a friendly way - that your best move is to try to be yourself. If you are hoping for a higher level of supervision, then that will come across. If you want to be more independent, then that will come across.

    IMO, the worst is when an applicant is trying to please me in an interview. It is pretty obvious and annoying and it gets in the way of really getting to know a person. It also takes away from the primary purpose -- try to assess if there will be a good match. You want to show yourself in the interview so that - when you get to the program - you are the same person. Does that make sense? Happy to answer questions about what I am trying to communicate here.
     
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  5. molecularmimicry

    molecularmimicry

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    I got good news for you! According to NRMP data, for psych, programs on AVERAGE go down 4.5-5x as many candidates as there are spots. For instance, if a program has 10 spots and interviews 100 people, as long as you're ranked in the top 50%, you'll likely match. Makes the odds seem a bit less daunting, doesn't it? :)
     
  6. splik

    splik Professional Cat at Large Physician Faculty 7+ Year Member

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    Your probabilities are off - it's about 1 in 10 odds since most programs interview 10 applicants per place. Most good places go fairly far down their rank list because the match favors the applicant and the best applicants have their pick
     
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  7. law14

    law14 2+ Year Member

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    You misunderstood what I was trying to say. If a program goes to #27 on their list after interviewing 80 people, then 27/80 (roughly 1/3) interviewees will be in matchable position for that program. For that particular program, 53/80 (~2/3) interviewees would not have been able to match there.

    I’m hopeful, though, that most programs go further down their list than #27, as molecularmimicry is saying.
     
  8. MrWonderful

    MrWonderful 2+ Year Member

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    can any PDs/APDs comment on how much consideration is given to the interview itself as far as rank position goes? I.e. if your stats were on the lower end but you had an impressionable interview, how much stock is given to that scenario vs. say a student with really sexy numbers and an otherwise average interview? Obviously this is vague and your impression will be radically subjective, but generally speaking how much does the interview affect an applicants rank position?
     
  9. Celexa

    Celexa

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    Not a PD but based on what my home PD told us at our program the application and interview are of fairly equal importance.
     
  10. OldPsychDoc

    OldPsychDoc Senior Curmudgeon Physician Moderator Emeritus SDN Advisor 10+ Year Member

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    The application gets you the interview; the interview gets you ranked.
     
  11. Amygdarya

    Amygdarya 7+ Year Member

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    :nailbiting::nailbiting::nailbiting:
     
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  12. Coupd'Cat

    Coupd'Cat Caught in Life's Washcycle

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    :laugh:... :lame:.
     
  13. Amygdarya

    Amygdarya 7+ Year Member

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    Well, I feel like the more I like a person - ahem, a residency program, the more flustered I get, which doesn’t improve my interview performance (or dating for that matter). I feel like my worst interview so far was with the PD of my top choice program, even though the PD was perfectly relaxed and informal and didn’t throw any hard balls :arghh:
     
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  14. Coupd'Cat

    Coupd'Cat Caught in Life's Washcycle

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    I see. :( How did you feel with your other interviewers that day? More comfortable?
    (You're not alone! For my part, I'm a rambler when I'm nervous. Awkward nonsense just rolls out my mouth).
     
  15. Amygdarya

    Amygdarya 7+ Year Member

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    More comfortable. I guess. I dunno. The autopsy will show ;)
     
  16. pyrrion89

    pyrrion89 MS4 2+ Year Member

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    If that is really the case, then why are many interviews recruitment-oriented (e.g., not asking you any questions, very focused on "what can we do for you?")? Those interviews don't seem structured to really evaluate you directly and seem much more like they are trying to just sell you the program (after they already made up their mind about you through your application).
     
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  17. EarlyCareerAcademicPsych

    EarlyCareerAcademicPsych 2+ Year Member

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    I'm an APD. Where I do this, the application gets you an interview. The interview is like a screening process - it sorts out the very high performing folks and the very low performing folks. But the vast majority (the middle 90-95%) do just fine and they get ranked.

    You probably want to know about what makes for a "low performance interview day". In addition to what OPD wrote before in this thread, I am turned-off by arrogance. IMO, arrogance is a barrier to teaching and if an applicant comes off as arrogant, then that person probably won't get ranked.

    Re: nervousness described above -- I am fine with genuine, nervous enthusiasm about a career in psychiatry or about our specific program. That doesn't do anything to detract from my assessment of applicant performance on the interview day (with EXTREME exceptions - like if you are so nervous that you are vomiting or you can't talk -- that would be a problem!)
     
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  18. OldPsychDoc

    OldPsychDoc Senior Curmudgeon Physician Moderator Emeritus SDN Advisor 10+ Year Member

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    Because it's a buyers' market. Your rankings of us will matter more than ours of you.
     
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  19. tellme_areyoufree

    tellme_areyoufree 2+ Year Member

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    You and me both. I had an interview with a big name program... if I'm being honest, I was sort of hoping I would hate it so that I wouldn't have to start hoping to match there. But I loved every second, and when the interview with the PD came I just was a giant ball of anxiety realizing that I really legitimately want this program and can't hide from that fact. Sigh. So hey, there's the bright side - you have other interviewees being morons and blowing their interviews, too :p :p (you probably didn't blow your interview. And maybe I didn't blow mine. But gosh it does feel that way, doesn't it?)
     
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  20. raisinbrain

    raisinbrain

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    Hopefully it went better than you think! My guess is it went alright, as long as you weren't like :vomit:, :yawn:, or :mooning:. I definitely spent most of one interview meeting acting like :biglove: - oops.

    edit: yes, you can tell I finally took time to explore the little emoticons for the first time today...
     
    Last edited: Nov 30, 2017
  21. Coupd'Cat

    Coupd'Cat Caught in Life's Washcycle

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    agreed!

    haha what is :mooning: even. actually, I'm afraid to ask.
     
  22. Doctorows

    Doctorows

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    FYI, BU currently has a date (12/16) open for scheduling on ERAS. So if anyone is still waiting to hear from that program, might be worth sending them a friendly email.
     
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  23. jellyfiche

    jellyfiche 2+ Year Member

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    Does anyone have any experience with not having COMLEX-PE/Step2CS available by rank list time? I have to retake mine in January and I'm wondering if I should contact programs to let them know it'll be available early March.

    My application is quite solid and I have a total of 11 interviews, with five more places to go. Should I be proactive and email PDs to let them know of my failure now, or wait until January? I feel devastated this happened - does anyone have any advice for me?
     
    Last edited: Dec 1, 2017
  24. starchymc

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    What are the chances my SO who got rejected from a program will get "unrejected" and given an interview invite after I interview at the same program (couples matching)?
     
  25. splik

    splik Professional Cat at Large Physician Faculty 7+ Year Member

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    Couples matching pulls the stronger person down, not the weaker person up. Spousal hires don't normally happen in residency but they do happen later. Sometimes spousal hires happen where one is a resident and the other person does something else, not when they're both residents.
     
  26. starchymc

    starchymc

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    Yeah makes sense. I also have an upcoming away rotation at this institution too, but I'm thinking of cancelling it. They gave me an interview a while back, but flat out rejected my SO. Should I still go to the interview?
     
  27. splik

    splik Professional Cat at Large Physician Faculty 7+ Year Member

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    what you should have done (and probably having to lose by still doing so) is write a polite enthusiastic email to the PD about interested you are your partner are but you're couples matching and are regrettably unable to accept the interview if your partner isn't interviewed. you appreciate that may not be possible but wanted to explain the situation. some of the less competitive programs consider couples a BOGO offer so there is that.

    are there any other programs in that city? or that the only one.
     
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  28. eskittletalopram

    eskittletalopram

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    .
     
    Last edited: Dec 16, 2017
  29. psychdoc222

    psychdoc222 2+ Year Member

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    Anyone got an interview from UTRGV? I couldn't find any mention in any of the threads. Any updates with the program? I know last year they were asking for secondary application but this year it was kind of asked to be attached to main application.
     
  30. Geraltofrivia

    Geraltofrivia

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    So I applied to 100 programs and only got 10 interviews. 225/239 DO student...
     
  31. UTsksk

    UTsksk 7+ Year Member

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    Yeah I interviewed there. If you have any questions let me know.
     
  32. psychiatryhopeful

    psychiatryhopeful

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    has anyone been at an interview where you were not asked any questions by the PD? or the PD started off the interview with "do you have any questions for me?" does this mean that they are not interested in you?
     
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  33. MrWonderful

    MrWonderful 2+ Year Member

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    They might be just as burnt out as you are :D
     
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  34. Stagg737

    Stagg737 2+ Year Member

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    I had the same thing happen. My PD interview at my #1 was by far my worst PD interview. The worst part was I knew the PD beforehand and every sign pointed to them really liking me (to the point they said "see you at the interview" before the application even opened). Then got grilled during the interview and didn't handle it as well as I'd have liked. I actually downplayed some of my strengths because some of the questions caught me so off guard. It wasn't a terrible interview, and I think it went decently (the rest of the interviews that day were great). I just know that I'm generally a pretty strong interviewer so having one that didn't go great has really been freaking me out.

    That's not terrible, 10 should be solid enough to be confident you'll match, it does sound underwhelming for applying to 100 programs though. Do you have some other red flags with you app? Did you only apply to stronger programs or not apply mostly within your region? I'm DO with worse scores and a potential red flag, applied to less programs, and still pulled 9 interviews and some waitlists. Either something about your app is weaker/not clicking with programs or you're

    I did last week. Was told by the residents beforehand to expect that, as that particular PD didn't really ask questions and simply asked if we had questions about the program/city/psych in general. It may not be that they're not interested in you, but rather that they're trying to gauge your interest in them. I think anyone mildly interested in a program would have some sort of question for the PD, even if it's somewhat generic, so having literally nothing to ask or say could be seen as a red flag due to lack of interest. I could be totally wrong and would love to hear the PDs/APDs takes on this, but that would be my interpretation.
     
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  35. Entadus

    Entadus Happy on 5-HT 7+ Year Member

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    this has happened to me, i think it depends mostly on the personality of the interviewer. i wouldn't read too much into it
     
  36. Amygdarya

    Amygdarya 7+ Year Member

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    Ha, I had an interview where my interviewer started by "So, how can I help you?" and, without waiting for my answer, jumped into grilling me on minute details of my research. I haven't been grilled about my research like this since my thesis defense (and, alas, I got defensive at some point during the interview). He actually did help me ultimately - by giving me a great idea for my project. But this was the most "stress" interview I've had.
     
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  37. zoombini01

    zoombini01 2+ Year Member

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    Not that these rankings should really matter, but just wondering about why BIDMC-Harvard is ranked so much lower than Brigham on Doximity? Anyone have any insight into this? It seems strange considering both used to be part of the same (and well-regarded) Longwood program, and at least based on my experience at interview day BI seems like an absolutely incredible program. Interested to hear people's thoughts on this.
     
  38. OldPsychDoc

    OldPsychDoc Senior Curmudgeon Physician Moderator Emeritus SDN Advisor 10+ Year Member

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    My thoughts on it are that Doximity's poll is even more bogus and meaningless than US News'.
     
  39. Amygdarya

    Amygdarya 7+ Year Member

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    I recently interviewed at BIDMC and loved it as well. I actually believe it's a better training program *in psychiatry* than BWH.

    1) Doximity rankings are based on Doximity members polls; basically they're popularity contests where perceived prestige plays a great role. There is a joke that Princeton Law School was named one of the best US law schools in a similar poll among lawyers; the catch it, Princeton doesn't have a law school.

    2) There's a self-perpetuating effect - eg., MGH will continue to be number one because it's always been number one, so it has to be the best, right?

    3) There is also a halo effect. Which is where I get to the point regarding BWH vs. BIDMC ranking. BWH, a paternal twin of MGH, has been a top hospital for *medical and surgical* specialties attracting complicated patients/difficult cases from all over the world. By comparison, BIDMC is considered a more "community" (though it's still very much academic) hospital for medicine and surgery. And with the halo effect, the more renowned medical/surgical reputation translates into more assumed prestige for BWH psychiatry without any actual evidence for it.

    4) Since the Longwood "divorce" it's actually BIDMC that's been carrying the Longwood flag. To start with, BIDMC was a strong prestigious psych program of its own before its merger into Longwood. Longwood's founder and long-time PD is now BIDMC psychiatry chair. The most recent/current Longwood PD will continue on as BIDMC PD.
    In terms of services/training opportunities BIDMC "lost" in the divorce from BWH, almost all of them are redundant - another psych inpatient unit, another C-L service. I pressed senior Longwood residents really hard as to what were the differences between the corresponding services at BWH and BIDMC and they ultimately conceded that there were more medically complicated patients at BWH (consistent with the above: BWH is strong in medicine and attracts more complicated patients) but that BIDMC psych inpatient had sicker patients and BIDMC C-L had more eating disorders (because of some medicine docs specializing in eating disorders there). Doesn't sound bad at all to me. One non-redundant service that BIDMC lost was addictions, but they arranged a relationship with a VA for a detox unit and residential treatment rotation for interns (as well as an opportunity for a PTSD elective), and all the residents I talked to who had already done this rotation were extatic about it. BIDMC also created a new addictons service within C-L.
    BWH is perceived to be stronger in neuropsych (the chair is a neuropsychiatrist), "biological" psychiatry and research, but BIDMC has its own strong neuropsych - in fact, it has one of the top neuromodulation centers in the country, research (particularly at Mass Mental) and certainly doesn't lack in psychopharm education.
    On the other hand, what BIDMC "retained" after the divorce is its renowned outpatient clinic and strong psychotherapy training, as well as its affiliations with Mass Mental and Fenway Health, which are fantastic patient care, research and training institutions in their own right.
     
    Last edited: Dec 22, 2017
  40. UTsksk

    UTsksk 7+ Year Member

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    Had a program brag the same thing at an interview a few weeks ago. I nodded my head and smiled while inside my head I was saying "That's cool bro".
     
  41. law14

    law14 2+ Year Member

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    Yep. It’s definitely frustrating that PDs seem to care so much about bragging rights.
     
  42. OldPsychDoc

    OldPsychDoc Senior Curmudgeon Physician Moderator Emeritus SDN Advisor 10+ Year Member

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    We only care about it because applicants seem to care about "prestige" and "rankings".
    Face it, we have precious little objective evidence for program quality. The VAST majority of our graduates get jobs and pass boards. Almost all PDs I know are equally concerned about resident wellbeing and happiness.
    So...what makes one program better than another?
     
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  43. Celexa

    Celexa

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    I thought the poster was specifically referring to the way some programs care and will change rankings so they don't go far down their lists as a kind of internal ego boost. I was told explicitly by advisers in another specialty I was considering that this was a known factor in their field. Once everyone has interviewed both applicants and programs should just rank based on preference, but people seem bound and determined to fail to understand the algorithm which leads to all the post interview communications and outright lies you hear about by both programs and applicants. Its part of why it's hard to shake the fear of not matching even when you are well qualified because what if instead of trusting the algorithm, a PD despite taking the time to interview you didn't think you seemed pumped enough about their program and drops you down their rank list bc they want to match in their top 30 not top 50.

    I'm not accusing any of the wonderful PDs who post here of doing this kind of thing but given that I've been told that it does happen by people involved in putting together rank lists, I do find it depressing...

    Sent from my [device_name] using SDN mobile
     
  44. OldPsychDoc

    OldPsychDoc Senior Curmudgeon Physician Moderator Emeritus SDN Advisor 10+ Year Member

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    Yeah, I get it--but once you've been through this cycle half a dozen times and learn that the guy you got at #47 one year is just as competent than the guy you got at #20 the year before (and less trouble than the guy you got at #5 a couple of years before) you stop worrying about it as much.
     
  45. Amygdarya

    Amygdarya 7+ Year Member

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    I understand this was not what you were addressing in your response, but as a continuation of the discussion -
    It may not make much difference for the programs, especially considering that the fellow applicants I've met on the interview track seem uniformly strong, but whether you rank someone #5, #20 or #47 could very well make a difference for individual applicants.
    (With the interview season winding down our interview invitation anxiety is out and our ranking anxiety is in.)
     
  46. castlebox

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    Just adding onto the discussion about medicine between BIDMC and BWH. I'm actually a fellow IM applicant (so I don't have the credentials to talk about psych haha), but my friend who lurks on SDN saw your post and asked me about the medical complexity between BIDMC and BWH so I decided to share my thoughts from a medical perspective based on my individual interview days at both. I'm not entirely certain that the patients at BWH are necessarily more complex at BWH than at BIDMC-- I asked the residents at both programs how EMS decide which patients go to which hospital, and residents at both programs jokingly said ambulances in Boston choose the closest hospital to them (the truth is that they go to the hospital where they've received care before).

    The issue with BIDMC and BWH (besides that they are academic medical centers located right next to one another) is that the patient population tends to be VERY homogenous (this is also an issue at MGH being located in one of the richest neighborhoods in Boston), and residents at both programs told me that patient mix is generally middle to upper class white (One third year BWH resident actually told me that he only has seen one sickle cell patient all of residency thusfar :eek:.) One other thing that I learned while interviewing is that no liver patients are seen at BWH as they do not have a liver program and any liver patients that come through the ED at BWH are automatically transferred to MGH. On the other hand, BIDMC has a robust liver program (and in fact has one of the top liver programs in the country). BIDMC also has its own oncology service separate from Dana Farber (although it has a partner affiliation with Dana Farber in conjunction with BWH and BIDMC IM residents can rotate through there), while BWH only has DFCI (so onc is separated from the main hospital). A running joke is that if you want to take care of Saudi Arabian princes, BWH is the best place for that kind of training.

    But anyways that's just my impression of BIDMC vs BWH from an IM perspective. Anyone can feel free to correct me or add on anything else they would like to add (particularly any Harvard med students).
     
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  47. law14

    law14 2+ Year Member

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    A few questions I’ve been wondering about—

    1) I really thought there would be more offers going out this month. I’ve met several people on my later interviews who have said they plan to cancel their January interviews (because they’ve already found their #1, have enough interviews, are tired of interviewing, etc). Wonder if we’ll see any last minute offers going out next month from these cancellations?

    2) How necessary are second looks? I’ve heard at least 3 or 4 current residents say they attended a second look at the program where they ended up matching. How much do y’all think they help our chances? How are they generally set up? I’m running low on both free time and money at this point.

    3) How should we contact our top few programs to let them know they’re our top few programs? Anybody got a good email outline typed up yet?
     
  48. tyrionlannister00

    tyrionlannister00

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    I talked to our program coordinator yesterday and she said she had a bunch of cancellations over the holidays.
     
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  49. syvian.

    syvian.

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    Cancellations. I have never appreciated this word more in my life!
     
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  50. Coupd'Cat

    Coupd'Cat Caught in Life's Washcycle

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    re: #2, I'm pretty skeptical of 2nd looks. If anything, view them as more for your decision-making purposes rather than as a way show interest to a program (there are emails for that, too). Personally, I'll probably stick with emailing residents from the comfort of my home with any lingering questions. Depending on the program, they may have also already met & discussed applicants post-interview along the way, so a 2nd look would be pointless from the pov of that latter motive anyway.
     

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