*~*~*~*Official AMCAS Work/Activities Tips Thread 2017-2018*~*~*~*

[teamoteamo]

As a thought, is there room left in an Honors/Awards space for their mention?

I do have a section for that, but it is currently speaking to two other awards that are not associated with any of my entries (Dean's List and another academic award). I found ways to mention all other awards for my activities within their descriptions to be consistent because I knew I wouldn't have room to thoroughly explain each one within 700 characters.

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[Catalystik]

I do have a section for that, but it is currently speaking to two other awards that are not associated with any of my entries (Dean's List and another academic award). I found ways to mention all other awards for my activities within their descriptions to be consistent because I knew I wouldn't have room to thoroughly explain each one within 700 characters.

Deans List adds little, considering your transcript speaks for itself. Perhaps the other award is in a similar category? Surely a national conference presentation and awards trump Deans List in terms of benefit to your application? Just a thought.

 

[mariposas905]

I have three different research activities, all with different projects and awards. Is it better to list these all of these as different entries instead of bunching them up? I also received awards and grants within each research experience. I was thinking of just including the award in the same entry within the description. Is this alright or should I list it within the honors/awards section instead? Fyi, I was originally not planning on having an honors/awards section because I am already out of room for activities.

 

[Catalystik]

I have three different research activities, all with different projects and awards.

1) Is it better to list these all of these as different entries instead of bunching them up?

2) I also received awards and grants within each research experience. I was thinking of just including the award in the same entry within the description. Is this alright or should I list it within the honors/awards section instead? Fyi, I was originally not planning on having an honors/awards section because I am already out of room for activities.

1) Yes, give each its own space, or group two together with the third on its own (the one you have the most to say about).

2) Yes, it's better to keep the awards in the context of the affiliated Research, as there are so many and you don't want readers to get confused.

 

[ariri]

I need more information: That is not a use of the Repeated feature that I've ever seen. It sounds like it could lead to confusion, and depending on why you want to mention the conferences, that's not where adcomms will be looking for it.

Why did you attend the conference? Were they local or distant from campus? Did you have posters or a presentation? Were they the same for each conference? What earned "awards"? Do you have no further room for a dedicated Conferences Attended or Presentations/Posters space?

When attending a conference, the hours claimed are generally those spent organizing the conference or standing by a poster or a podium.

So if I just extend the end date to the furthest possible but only write the complete hours in the hour section, will they assume that i'm not projecting future hours? Or would it be clearer to have the end date to June 2017 and then write in the description "-current"? This isn't for my conference section, but for volunteering and current jobs.

I have 8 total posters and conference presentations, 2 of them were presented by my post-doc. The ones presented by me were 3 on campus, and 3 travel and invited.
I thought it'd be best to combine them into one category since that's what everyone else seems to be doing?
And I have a few personal awards&honors like distinguished staff, scholarship/prizes, dean's list, and then I have a little bit of a longer list of company awards (my start-up) from competitions, press, accelerator programs, and I also added in the 2 patents that are pending.

 

[ariri]

1) The list looks good, though I'm not clear if you have some active clinical experience or not (caregiver=babysitter, nanny, or what?). The activities where you've consolidated are appropriate.

2) The latest date you can extend future hours into would be Aug 2018. I'ts fine to project hours, so long as you're sure it will happen, but be sure to divide future hours from those completed. You can do this
a) with the Repeated feature, making the current month the end of datespan 1, but also the beginning of datespan 2, or
b) you can put only the completed hours in the header and include projected hours and dates in your narrative (a better idea if you're not sure).

Thanks! I'm not sure if my caregiving experience was clinical, but my active clinical experience comes from the harm reduction program (with a clinic) and working at a private plastic surgeon's office. I didn't put them under the clinical category, but I'm guessing it's obvious enough from the descriptions

 

[Catalystik]

1) So if I just extend the end date to the furthest possible but only write the complete hours in the hour section, will they assume that i'm not projecting future hours? Or would it be clearer to have the end date to June 2017 and then write in the description "-current"? This isn't for my conference section, but for volunteering and current jobs.

2) I have 8 total posters and conference presentations, 2 of them were presented by my post-doc. The ones presented by me were 3 on campus, and 3 travel and invited. I thought it'd be best to combine them into one category since that's what everyone else seems to be doing?

3) And I have a few personal awards&honors like distinguished staff, scholarship/prizes, dean's list, and then I have a little bit of a longer list of company awards (my start-up) from competitions, press, accelerator programs, and I also added in the 2 patents that are pending.

1) It would be clearest to have an end date in June 2017 (current hours only) in the header and any future projected hours mentioned in the narrative, either specifically (hours/week) or more vaguely, like "I expect to continue with this activity through May 2018." Alternatively, if you are very sure of the future hours, you can use the Repeated feature to divide out current vs future hours, using this month as the end of datespan 1 and the beginning of datespan 2. This results in all the Total Hours appearing in the header, but broken into two timeframes. You can see how it will look to adcomms by selecting Print from the Main Menu on page 1 of the application and then clicking PDF view.

2) They are unlikely to fit into one space. Campus posters can be included in the Research space (unless the same poster also went to an away conference). maybe the other 5 will fit, but be sure to distinguish those you presented personally. See guidelines for listing research in post #2, item 20 of this thread for more ideas about condensing what you need to put in the space.

3) Are they patents pending, or are they submissions for patent consideration? Be sure to refer to their status in the process correctly. Take out deans list if you need more space.

 

[Catalystik]

I'm not sure if my caregiving experience was clinical, but my active clinical experience comes from the harm reduction program (with a clinic) and working at a private plastic surgeon's office. I didn't put them under the clinical category, but I'm guessing it's obvious enough from the descriptions

It might be a mistake not to use the Clinical category at least once, as office staffers who screen for required categories have been known to miss critical elements folded into other activities.

 

[teamoteamo]

Deans List adds little, considering your transcript speaks for itself. Perhaps the other award is in a similar category? Surely a national conference presentation and awards trump Deans List in terms of benefit to your application? Just a thought.

Thank you 🙂 I will likely get rid of Dean's List & use that space for the conferences. Another quick question: I plan on submitting my primary some time today. I know that all letters do not need to be submitted by this point - however when I added some medical schools, it asked which letters I want to go to each school.
1. Do I have time to sit and think about which letters I want to go where or does this need to be determined before submission?
2. If I have time, is there a specific time in which I need to make the decision for all schools? I was thinking by the time that applications are verified, but I am not sure.

 

[Catalystik]

I plan on submitting my primary some time today. I know that all letters do not need to be submitted by this point - however when I added some medical schools, it asked which letters I want to go to each school.
1. Do I have time to sit and think about which letters I want to go where or does this need to be determined before submission?
2. If I have time, is there a specific time in which I need to make the decision for all schools? I was thinking by the time that applications are verified, but I am not sure.

@gonnif for an answer with more precision than I have to offer.

 

[mariposas905]

1) Yes, give each its own space, or group two together with the third on its own (the one you have the most to say about).

2) Yes, it's better to keep the awards in the context of the affiliated Research, as there are so many and you don't want readers to get confused.

Thank you. I just won't have an honors/awards section then, and will include it within the research descriptions. For the research-heavy schools, do you think creating different entries for every research gig is looked at more favorably? (since it will seem like the applicant has more research when adcoms skim through the app)

 

[gonnif]

Thank you 🙂 I will likely get rid of Dean's List & use that space for the conferences. Another quick question: I plan on submitting my primary some time today. I know that all letters do not need to be submitted by this point - however when I added some medical schools, it asked which letters I want to go to each school.
1. Do I have time to sit and think about which letters I want to go where or does this need to be determined before submission?
2. If I have time, is there a specific time in which I need to make the decision for all schools? I was thinking by the time that applications are verified, but I am not sure.

1) The actual primary application and letters are separate functions and do not need to be submitted together. You can assign letters to the specific schools after you have submitted primary application
2) Letters are not verified or in any way reviewed by AMCAS in anyway and there is no deadline for them by AMCAS which will transmit them in one business day. Letters are typically reviewed by schools as part of the secondary application process so they are not 'due' until that phase. Most schools dont really use the letters until at least August 1st and not having them in by Sept 1st would still be early. Medical schools also realize that many UG institutions do not send committee letters until after the Fall term begins. In shorts, letters that arrive by Sept 30th are still fine for virtually all programs

*********************************************************
AMCAS 2018 Timeline Summary (post count #034)
-AMCAS May 2, 2017, Primary application opens up. Can send formal requests for transcripts from your schools and letter requests to your letter writers.
-AMCAS June 1, 2017, Completed primary applications with all ECs, PS, and course information can be submitted. You enter the verification queue only when both completed primary application and all transcripts have been received.
-AMCAS June 30, 2017, begins transmission verified applications until late June (though some schools have secondaries sent to contact info upon submission to AMCAS)
-Verification peak is about August 1st and takes 20 days
-Most Primary Apps are transmitted early July thru early September
-Secondaries timelines can vary widely as to when to they are sent out from almost immediately upon submissions to 3 months, though most are in the range 1-3 weeks after transmission.
-Letters via AMCAS are processed/transmitted separately from primary
-Letters can be added after primary has been submitted and transmitted and are mostly not needed until secondary reviews at the earliest.
-Application and candidate evaluations timeline varies widely by school may not done in a linear, chronological order. EDP, High achievers, URM, family of alumni, feeder schools, associated UG programs, linked postbaccs, and other factor may push an app forward in the process.
-Most adcoms dont start meeting for review of evaluated applicants until at least mid-August, more likely September, though some reviews may be done earlier for groups mentioned above.
-Submitting Primary Application June is Early, July Medium, August Late
-Having Primary verified and transmitted to school by end of August is normal speed
-Having Secondary and all LORs complete to school by Labor Day is early. By late or end of September is about normal speed, by end of October is about late.
--After that point you will generally start getting impacted by the number of applications submitted, the finite number of interview slots, and seats given by rolling admissions. This isnt an absolute date nor is it a fixed timeline. It should be used as a guideline

Getting primary in on time does matter because of all the other items that follow it. But applicants often see the beginning and not understanding how it flows from there. Additionally, how each school then opens a file, reviews them on GPA, MCAT, and other factors, and what order they wind up in a queue has less to do with when the primary arrives then when the secondary is completed and received. Since the majority of schools, I dare say, send out pre-transmission, unscreened, or minimal cut off screened secondaries, this is probably a larger factor in where you wind up in the queue for 1) reading an application and 2) decision on interview invite. As I have said previously, and will undoubtedly say dozens of time during this 2018 application cycle (see count above) review of apps is not simply done in a linear chronological order. High achievers, URM, family of alumni, feeder schools, associated UG programs, linked postbaccs, and other factor may push an app forward in the process.

 

[mariposas905]

1) The actual primary application and letters are separate functions and do not need to be submitted together. You can assign letters to the specific schools after you have submitted primary application
2) Letters are not verified or in any way reviewed by AMCAS in anyway and there is no deadline for them by AMCAS which will transmit them in one business day. Letters are typically reviewed by schools as part of the secondary application process so they are not 'due' until that phase. Most schools dont really use the letters until at least August 1st and not having them in by Sept 1st would still be early. Medical schools also realize that many UG institutions do not send committee letters until after the Fall term begins. In shorts, letters that arrive by Sept 30th are still fine for virtually all programs

I didn't know this...I wonder why schools do this knowing that it would make their applicants late 😵

 

[Wagley]

Where do I list/describe volunteering that I have started after submitting the primary? I was pre-writing some secondar

Better to save it for Secondaries or update letters.

So would it be appropriate to add a line about that activity in these types of secondary questions "If you have already graduated, briefly summarize your activities since graduation"? Or are there other other specific prompts which I may have overlooked while looking at previous years' secondaries where I can briefly mention the activities?

 

[gonnif]

I didn't know this...I wonder why schools do this knowing that it would make their applicants late 😵

You have the question backwards. why does everyone think that something before September 1st is early?

The AMCAS system was developed from the common timeline of undergraduate schools and admissions for medical schools. Historically, most applicants applied in the spring of their Junior year, often with Organic Chem and/or advanced Biology courses being taken that term. Therefore, grades and evaluations from these courses were expected to be included in the application and committee letter. Of course, you cant know the grade until the term is over and the professor assigns it. But what do professors, administrators, advisors, and all the rest at undergraduate schools do when the Spring term is over? they go away for the summer. So no evaluation from the professor, no advisor to process, and no committee to write it up. That doesnt happen until the they return for the Fall term. This is why letters are among the last things reviewed by schools.

By the way, even though most applicants are absolutely convinced that if they are not early completely done by July 4th, they are not viable candidates, they will be rejected from medical school, and have to spend life as a clerk in 7-11. Where do you think most medical school evaluators and admissions committees are for the summer. Most schools do not start formal adcom reviews until sometime in August and the process isnt in full swing until after Labor Day. Most solid applicants who have application complete (primary, secondary, MCAT, LOR) at most programs by Sept 30th have the same chances of acceptance as some one who is fully complete by August 1st. Hence why complete by Labor Day is early and by end of September on time

 

[Catalystik]

For the research-heavy schools, do you think creating different entries for every research gig is looked at more favorably? (since it will seem like the applicant has more research when adcoms skim through the app)

It depends. They might look at more Research entries favorably so long as you have something substantive to say in each. Ideally, subsequent entries will show an increase in skills, responsibility, creative input, and longevity. Three brief gigs wherein you accomplished little would be less favorable than one with more than a year or two that had the same qualities. Keep in mind: I'm making generalizations here and don't know enough about your experiences to judge how you personally would be viewed by research-oriented schools. If you want input on that, consider making a detailed WAMC post in the appropriate forum.

 

[Catalystik]

Where do I list/describe volunteering that I have started after submitting the primary? I was pre-writing some secondar

So would it be appropriate to add a line about that activity in these types of secondary questions "If you have already graduated, briefly summarize your activities since graduation"? Or are there other other specific prompts which I may have overlooked while looking at previous years' secondaries where I can briefly mention the activities?

"Is there anything else you'd like the admissions committee to know?" "Share something about yourself not addressed elsewhere."

"Indicate any special experiences, unusual factors or other information you feel would be helpful in evaluating you, including, but not limited to, education, employment, extracurricular activities, prevailing over adversity. You may expand upon but not repeat AMCAS application information. (2000 character limit.)"

"Describe your expected activities during the application year."

"Select an experience unrelated to science or medicine that you’ve had in each of the categories below. Just name the experience and then write a very brief statement about why you did the experience and/or what was the most important thing(s) you learned about yourself from doing it. You may write about a new experience or one listed in your AMCAS application. An experience may be used more than once. Leaving categories blank will not make your application incomplete. Limit your answers to the spaces provided.
1. A community service experience (unrelated to science or patient care). (1200 characters limit)
2. An employment experience (a job you held for pay unrelated to science or medicine). (1200 characters limit)
3. A position of responsibility/authority (in which others depended on you for direction). (1200 characters limit)
4. A creative endeavor (anything that required you to be creative in your approach, e.g. art, dance, music, computer programming, web site design, writing). (1200 characters)."

"Describe briefly any experiences and/or skills that have made you more sensitive or appreciative of other cultures or the human condition.
Please limit your response to 2000 characters (approx. 250 words)."

"What experiences in your life demonstrate your perspective on service to others."

"Discuss a time when you stepped out of your comfort zone."

 

[ariri]

1) It would be clearest to have an end date in June 2017 (current hours only) in the header and any future projected hours mentioned in the narrative, either specifically (hours/week) or more vaguely, like "I expect to continue with this activity through May 2018." Alternatively, if you are very sure of the future hours, you can use the Repeated feature to divide out current vs future hours, using this month as the end of datespan 1 and the beginning of datespan 2. This results in all the Total Hours appearing in the header, but broken into two timeframes. You can see how it will look to adcomms by selecting Print from the Main Menu on page 1 of the application and then clicking PDF view.

2) They are unlikely to fit into one space. Campus posters can be included in the Research space (unless the same poster also went to an away conference). maybe the other 5 will fit, but be sure to distinguish those you presented personally. See guidelines for listing research in post #2, item 20 of this thread for more ideas about condensing what you need to put in the space.

3) Are they patents pending, or are they submissions for patent consideration? Be sure to refer to their status in the process correctly. Take out deans list if you need more space.

1) I like that idea a lot, will do.

2. I got them to fit into one space, but with only what kind of presentation, conference name, and date. Do adcomms want to know what research I was presenting? I can definitely separate them into two spaces if needed, but I'm already at 13.

3. Yes, they are both patent pending, with the PCT cleared and US patent is being reviewed right now.

4. One additional question, would my experience being a young homeowner/landlord be a valuable additional slot? I have some real estate ambitions and have spent considerable time and energy into fixing up my first house.

 

[Catalystik]

1) I like that idea a lot, will do.

2. I got them to fit into one space, but with only what kind of presentation, conference name, and date. Do adcomms want to know what research I was presenting? I can definitely separate them into two spaces if needed, but I'm already at 13.

3. Yes, they are both patent pending, with the PCT cleared and US patent is being reviewed right now.

4. One additional question, would my experience being a young homeowner/landlord be a valuable additional slot? I have some real estate ambitions and have spent considerable time and energy into fixing up my first house.

2) A title, or truncated title should be included, which usually makes the background research obvious.

3) Excellent. Patents and patents pending are rare among applicants.

4) You might include home renovation among your listed Hobbies.

 

[Danny L]

Is it problematic if I use a space to list I have a paper under review (and put it in the research/lab category)? It's first author so I'd like to emphasize it, and I can give more specifics on what's in it.

Also if I put a "questionable" takeaway in a mundane activity (like a club sport) should I expect to get grilled on it in an interview? Would it be safer then to just leave it out?

 

[Catalystik]

1) Is it problematic if I use a space to list I have a paper under review (and put it in the research/lab category)? It's first author so I'd like to emphasize it, and I can give more specifics on what's in it.

2) Also if I put a "questionable" takeaway in a mundane activity (like a club sport) should I expect to get grilled on it in an interview? Would it be safer then to just leave it out?

1) If you put in in the Research space as a submitted manuscript, I could live with that. Just don't put it in a Publication space before it's accepted.

2) If you'd like to be more specific, I won't quote you (tho I might make a vague reference) and you can delete the details later.

 

[ariri]

1) If you put in in the Research space as a sumitted manuscript, I could live with that. Just don't put it in a Publication space before it's accepted.

2) If you'd like to be more specific, I won't quote you (tho I might make a vague reference) and you can delete the details later.

Why should you not include manuscripts that haven't been accepted yet? aren't "submitted" "in review" and "accepted with minor revisions" good enough to include?

 

[Catalystik]

Why should you not include manuscripts that haven't been accepted yet? aren't "submitted" "in review" and "accepted with minor revisions" good enough to include?

Papers may be submitted to multiple journals and never get accepted. They may be accepted pending major revisions that take a year, or never happen due to the PI deciding to do things a different way, losing funding, leaving the institution, etc. Accepted pending minor revisions can be put in a Publications space.

As another adcomm here on SDN said, "You can write 'I like cheese' 100 times on a napkin, send it to Nature, and be able to say you submitted a paper."

 

[MeimeiLover]

I joined a rock band as a drummer in my high school, and it became a 14-membered band like a rock-band club in which I was a vice president. During my high school, I practiced for hours a day, hold many music conference (the largest with almost 2000 audience), and spent a significant amount of time on the club management.

My questions are
1) Should I list this activity as leadership, extra curricular, of artist endeavors? I have other activities listed as EC and artist endeavors already, would it be better to list this activity as leadership?

2) This was an activity that I did majorly during my high school. I do practice sometime with my band in college, but just for fun. Is it appropriate to list the activity since this was majorly done during high school? Should I put repeat for my college practice?

Thank you in advance for your time answering my questions.

 

[ariri]

Papers may be submitted to multiple journals and never get accepted. They may be accepted pending major revisions that take a year, or never happen due to the PI deciding to do things a different way, losing funding, leaving the institution, etc. Accepted pending minor revisions can be put in a Publications space.

As another adcomm here on SDN said, "You can write 'I like cheese' 100 times on a napkin, send it to Nature, and be able to say you submitted a paper."

While that's true, I disagree with the umbrella statement made regarding submitted papers. If you have a respected PI's name in your author list, wouldn't it be assumed that they're not going to let you submit your "I like cheese" paper to Nature? Wouldn't there be more of a gradient of what's acceptable, taking into account the history of publications? For example, at the other end of the spectrum, if your co-author is a nobel laureate or something like that, I don't think it'd be reasonable to doubt the validity of the paper.

 

[Lawpy]

While that's true, I disagree with the umbrella statement made regarding submitted papers. If you have a respected PI's name in your author list, wouldn't it be assumed that they're not going to let you submit your "I like cheese" paper to Nature? Wouldn't there be more of a gradient of what's acceptable? For example, if your co-author is a nobel laureate or something like that, I don't think it'd be reasonable to doubt the validity of the paper especially if you have a track record of published papers already.

Personally I see a lot of professors' CVs listing submitted papers in the same category as their publications/accepted/in press papers. Having a prior publication record would probably justify listing a submitted paper since you already made the case that your work had undergone peer review. The usual advice of submitted papers would probably apply to those who have zero publications.

 

[begoood95]

While that's true, I disagree with the umbrella statement made regarding submitted papers. If you have a respected PI's name in your author list, wouldn't it be assumed that they're not going to let you submit your "I like cheese" paper to Nature? Wouldn't there be more of a gradient of what's acceptable? For example, if your co-author is a nobel laureate or something like that, I don't think it'd be reasonable to doubt the validity of the paper especially if you have a track record of published papers already.

But you're assuming the ADCOM knows the respectable PI. I mean it doesn't really matter how well known a scientist is within their field, it's usually restricted to just that. @gonnif was an ADCOM, so I'd trust his opinion that this is usually seen as "fluff."

If you're at the caliber of submitting papers, it usually comes through other aspects of your primary.

 

[Catalystik]

While that's true, I disagree with the umbrella statement made regarding submitted papers. If you have a respected PI's name in your author list, wouldn't it be assumed that they're not going to let you submit your "I like cheese" paper to Nature? Wouldn't there be more of a gradient of what's acceptable, taking into account the history of publications? For example, at the other end of the spectrum, if your co-author is a nobel laureate or something like that, I don't think it'd be reasonable to doubt the validity of the paper.

Don't shoot the messenger. An exception to the "general rule," according to some, would be if you already have a publication, you might mention a submitted paper in the same space, as you have a proven track record. If your PI is a nobel laureate, it would be for them to include in their LOR the fact that you've recently submitted a promising paper.

 

[ariri]

But you're assuming the ADCOM knows the respectable PI. I mean it doesn't really matter how well known a scientist is within their field, it's usually restricted to just that. @gonnif was an ADCOM, so I'd trust his opinion that this is usually seen as "fluff."

If you're at the caliber of submitting papers, it usually comes through other aspects of your primary.

Yeah that makes a lot of sense, in addition to what @Lawper said. This got me curious, i was under the impression that most applicants would have research experience and a paper, but I'm guessing I overestimated that average. My apologies to @Catalystik I thought that was the norm. How many hours do people usually have/ how often do applicants have publications?

 

[boogiecousins94]

I have a question about the format of the space we write the description...I fill out the description in paragraph form to separate activities under the same heading, and the formatting looks fine when I'm filling it in.When I save it and look at the "show details" under the work/activities it essentially shows everything I wrote as one big paragraph. When adcoms look at it does it look the way I entered it in terms of format and not as the "details" area makes it seem?

 

[begoood95]

Yeah that makes a lot of sense, in addition to what @Lawper said. This got me curious, i was under the impression that most applicants would have research experience and a paper, but I'm guessing I overestimated that average. My apologies to @Catalystik I thought that was the norm. How many hours do people usually have/ how often do applicants have publications?

Lol @gonnif usually has nice statistics and tables showing the type of info you're asking for, so I defer to him.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G920A using SDN mobile

 

[boogiecousins94]

Yeah that makes a lot of sense, in addition to what @Lawper said. This got me curious, i was under the impression that most applicants would have research experience and a paper, but I'm guessing I overestimated that average. My apologies to @Catalystik I thought that was the norm. How many hours do people usually have/ how often do applicants have publications?

In terms of the "respectable PI" part, I am going to be on a paper (and although not my PI directly) the last author almost won the Nobel Prize. They regularly get invited to publish reviews in Cell. Although I consider this person to be very well known, the paper will probably be accepted but you can't guarantee anything, and as someone else mentioned it can take a whole year for something to actually be in press once its submitted so I think it's very premature to put something thats only submitted without any feedback from the peer-review process. I don't plan on listing this paper as "submitted" but if you have published abstracts that are associated with said paper I think it would be feasible to have a note at the bottom saying "will be submitted as manuscript" etc., I think just "submitted" standing alone is fluff

 

[Catalystik]

I joined a rock band as a drummer in my high school, and it became a 14-membered band like a rock-band club in which I was a vice president. During my high school, I practiced for hours a day, hold many music conference (the largest with almost 2000 audience), and spent a significant amount of time on the club management.

My questions are
1) Should I list this activity as leadership, extra curricular, of artist endeavors? I have other activities listed as EC and artist endeavors already, would it be better to list this activity as leadership?

2) This was an activity that I did majorly during my high school. I do practice sometime with my band in college, but just for fun. Is it appropriate to list the activity since this was majorly done during high school? Should I put repeat for my college practice?

1) Unless the activity continued into the college years, listing it is a waste of space. That said, there is no rule against including it anyway. If you want the space to include all that you've mentioned, Artistic Endeavor would cover it. The leadership component can be included in the title and/or mentioned in the space. If you list it as Leadership (which apparently took place only in the HS years), you'd only include the leadership component, not the practice and performance, so my first sentence would pertain.

2) Yes, you'd use the Repeated feature to divide your involvement before HS graduation from the time spent after that point (the summer before college is considered to be in 'the college years').

 

[Catalystik]

My apologies to @Catalystik I thought that was the norm. How many hours do people usually have/ how often do applicants have publications?

No worries.

About a year of research is the average listed, but keep in mind that includes folks with none, with a summer's or a term's worth, and those with 4+ years and those with PhDs already. Having a publication is not common.

 

[Danny L]

1) If you put in in the Research space as a submitted manuscript, I could live with that. Just don't put it in a Publication space before it's accepted.

2) If you'd like to be more specific, I won't quote you (tho I might make a vague reference) and you can delete the details later.

1.) So like this?: Activity Category- Research/Lab; Title- Paper under review; Description- [describe what's in paper]

2.) -----. Someone told me to just let the mundane activities be mundane and don't overthink things

 

[Catalystik]

I have a question about the format of the space we write the description...I fill out the description in paragraph form to separate activities under the same heading, and the formatting looks fine when I'm filling it in.When I save it and look at the "show details" under the work/activities it essentially shows everything I wrote as one big paragraph. When adcoms look at it does it look the way I entered it in terms of format and not as the "details" area makes it seem?

Don't look at the "Summary View" as it's depressing. The way adcomms will see it can be previewed by going to the Main Menu on the first page of the application, Select the Print button on the right side, and then click PDF view.

 

[Catalystik]

1.) So like this?: Activity Category- Research/Lab; Title- Paper under review; Description- [describe what's in paper]

2.) [omitted]Someone told me to just let the mundane activities be mundane and don't overthink things

1) No. What I meant was to mention it in the same Research space as the affiliated research description. Since it's in context, you can say, "Study results submitted to XXX, and is under review." If you have space, you can summarize the conclusion.

2) Those are two important take-aways, with the first more important than the last. Why would you be concerned that they'd grill you on it at an interview.

 

[SuaveCardigans]

.

 

[gonnif]

But you're assuming the ADCOM knows the respectable PI. I mean it doesn't really matter how well known a scientist is within their field, it's usually restricted to just that. @gonnif was an ADCOM, so I'd trust his opinion that this is usually seen as "fluff."

If you're at the caliber of submitting papers, it usually comes through other aspects of your primary.

Don't shoot the messenger. An exception to the "general rule," according to some, would be if you already have a publication, you might mention a submitted paper in the same space, as you have a proven track record. If your PI is a nobel laureate, it would be for them to include in their LOR the fact that you've recently submitted a promising paper.

As @begoood95 noted, you cant assume any adcom member will know the name of some "prestigious" PI nor can you assume that the same adcom who reads the primary application will also read the LOR that may mention the paper. Additionally, you can't produce some sort of citation for a paper that hasnt been published. As @Catalystik noted, if you have a previous publication, you may add it there or as I usually suggest, note ""preparing paper for submission" or similar under the research description. Also as the The 'Cat noted, it is up to the PI to note this info in the LOR.

Yeah that makes a lot of sense, in addition to what @Lawper said. This got me curious, i was under the impression that most applicants would have research experience and a paper, but I'm guessing I overestimated that average. My apologies to @Catalystik I thought that was the norm. How many hours do people usually have/ how often do applicants have publications?

Under about 60% of all matriculating students report being part of "laboratory research apprenticeship for college students" ( https://www.aamc.org/download/474258/data/msq2016report.pdf#page=8) while the AMCAS notes about 84% have research/lab experience ( https://aamc-orange.global.ssl.fast...-942e-73ae7071cbba/amcas_infographic_2016.pdf ). In either event, I would be surprised if as much 20% of matriculating students had been published. Certainly a minority of overall applicants have been published, displayed posters, or presented at any sort of conference and much of these would be smaller, less well-known publications and events

 

[gonnif]

Lol @gonnif usually has nice statistics and tables showing the type of info you're asking for, so I defer to him.

see previous post

 

[MeimeiLover]

1) Unless the activity continued into the college years, listing it is a waste of space. That said, there is no rule against including it anyway. If you want the space to include all that you've mentioned, Artistic Endeavor would cover it. The leadership component can be included in the title and/or mentioned in the space. If you list it as Leadership (which apparently took place only in the HS years), you'd only include the leadership component, not the practice and performance, so my first sentence would pertain.

2) Yes, you'd use the Repeated feature to divide your involvement before HS graduation from the time spent after that point (the summer before college is considered to be in 'the college years').

Thank you @Catalystik 🙂

 

[Danny L]

1) No. What I meant was to mention it in the same Research space as the affiliated research description. Since it's in context, you can say, "Study results submitted to XXX, and is under review." If you have space, you can summarize the conclusion.

2) Those are two important take-aways, with the first more important than the last. Why would you be concerned that they'd grill you on it at an interview.

Not sure. The person said it looks odd if you have a takeaway for every activity

 

[Catalystik]

I was part of [omitted at request]

As I don't know the service orientation (it might be volunteer, but perhaps it isn't a service to the community at large?), I can't comment between EC or Volunteer. If you chose Leadership, you'd only discuss that component, and those dates and hours, leaving out anything that was service only.

 

[Catalystik]

Not sure. The person said it looks odd if you have a takeaway for every activity

True, and can be tedious to read through.

 

[Catalystik]

I would be surprised if as much 20% of matriculating students had been published.

My impression is that it's far fewer.

 

[gonnif]

My impression is that it's far fewer.

I agree, hence why after taking into account all possible publication, posters, and conference presentation, even intraschool or student-societies, I would be quite suprised if it approached 20%. I am sure under 5% of applicants had any authorship connection to "signficant" publication or presentation

 

[Catalystik]

I am sure under 5% of applicants had any authorship connection to "signficant" publication or presentation

Exactly the number that came into my head.

 

[Danny L]

True, and can be tedious to read through.

Ok thanks!

 

[SuaveCardigans]

Is there a threshold of hours at which a service role no longer merits its own activity?
I will have a broad "Short Term Community Service" section already, which is a collection of unrelated experiences.
The activities I have in question are 36 hrs, 40 hrs, and 80 hrs.
I am already at 14 and do not want to appear as "fluffing" anything, but this is the only potential consolidation I see.

 

[MidnightSun32]

1) I have worked for 14 years as a General Manager for large and small stores-- highest volume at $19 million/ 150 employees and lowest volume at $2.5 million/ 30 employees. Would this be implied/ described as leadership by the position title or should it be placed under leadership? All day, everyday was leading a team with awards/acknowledgements in developing staff & driving profit. I established new training tools, ran really profitable locations, but most noteworthy was developing employees to be good leaders, promoting new leaders, & holding a leadership role that had me travel the US & Canada teaching GMs how to coach/develop/recruit. That last role only had 10 of us throughout the US and Canada so was a big accomplishment for me. However, I'm worried my work will sound redundant with each company listed. I developed/ fine tuned my leadership skills a little bit more with each company for the better & could include that? Also, 1 year as a Medical Assistant for a surgeon + practice management for this surgeon (helping start the practice... basically doing a lot of the legwork to make the transition go well) -- would I just put both job titles on the same line? All of my leadership has been from paid experiences; is this a problem? I am non-traditional and worked 60/hr weeks while still doing the usual volunteering, school, and shadowing-- It didn't dawn on me to add another leadership role to be honest. The neuroticism has set in!

2) With one company, I did a lot of work with grassroots organizations (volunteer) that wasn't paid but I supported them at work with fundraising events. The time outside of the events was unpaid and on my days off and also in other states. Should this just be listed under the employment section with that company? I have 3000+ hours nonclinical volunteering and 200 clinical volunteering hours additionally so I'm not as worried about the amount of hours-- more so the experiences were really neat & eye opening.

3) I attended and presented at a lot of large leadership conferences for work-- worth mentioning? Majority in the US but some in the UK.

4) Some of my volunteering/ shadowing (100 hours) was done about 6-7 years ago when I started this journey; can it still be listed? I took a few years to focus on work and family but kept up volunteering during that time as well so it's not all from that long ago. I work with a lot of physicians now who are rooting for me & have offered more shadowing experiences. Should I add more this summer?


Thank you for any help


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