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icebreaker32 said:
Fellowship preferred

chsrecruiting.applytojob.com

Full-Time Podiatrist - Outpatient + Surgeries - CHS Recruiting - Career Page

Podiatrist needed in Thibodaux, LA.
chsrecruiting.applytojob.com chsrecruiting.applytojob.com
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There is no comparison between someone who is fellowship trained right out of fellowship vs a candidate who has experience and has worked in a hospital before who is also ABFAS certified. Nothing trumps experience. Nothing trumps experience working in a hospital. Fellowship trained candidate right out of fellowship should not be considered over someone who is already certified by ABFAS. It is really that simple.
 
Retrograde_Nail said:
There is no comparison between someone who is fellowship trained right out of fellowship vs a candidate who has experience and has worked in a hospital before who is also ABFAS certified. Nothing trumps experience. Nothing trumps experience working in a hospital. Fellowship trained candidate right out of fellowship should not be considered over someone who is already certified by ABFAS. It is really that simple.
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Agree....they also say no practice experience required. Mainly a way of saying fellowship preferred if no experience.
 
GreenHousePub said:
No experience required = **** job anyways.
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Some **** is better than others.

Maybe $ per RVU is a bit lower than some organizational jobs and location is less desirable. Might be **** for a new MD grad, but gold for a new pod.
 
FootPhalanges said:
To fellow podiatrists in North Carolina,

If you work for a private practice, how much do you make? What is considered a competitive salary for the area?

I am three years out of residency and currently work for a large hospital system in Georgia. I make around $365,000 (including bonus). My partner and I are looking to move back to NC. I have been searching for high paying jobs in NC for a while now but have not been too successful. I understand I may not find another hospital job in my desired location and likely my pay will be lower than $350K. I am willing to sacrifice my income for a nice gig in NC. However, I refuse to make $100K after being 4 years out of residency.

Will I ever make close to $250K-300K in private practice (or is that not realistic)? Can a higher pay be negotiated?
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Was it hard finding a hospital job? My dream job would be hospital based and not really private practice. Do hospital jobs usually pay 365? or does it vary dramatically?
 
Not my job offer, but my friend just sent me this. Private practice in the Midwest. One of the scummiest offers I've ever seen
 

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You all should see some of the offers from Utah. They are even worse than that one. Place is crazy oversaturated, yet every year there are several new DPMs moving in and popping up all over the place despite the awful associate offers.
 
GreenHousePub said:
I thought the land of the midwest was supposed to be golden territory for making a killing? what?
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Idk about private practice but midwest tends to be lower cost of living than a lot of places and hospitals/groups "tend" to offer good salaries for the area. I have some buddies in the northeast make 125k base and essentially no way to bonus for likely 2-4 years based on what the volume looks like. And even after bonus they're looking at 30% over 450k collected or something along those lines.
 
GreenHousePub said:
I thought the land of the midwest was supposed to be golden territory for making a killing? what?
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Midwest is a mecca for good hospital jobs. Private practice is gonna private practice regardless of geography.
 
NeisseriaGon said:
Was it hard finding a hospital job? My dream job would be hospital based and not really private practice. Do hospital jobs usually pay 365? or does it vary dramatically?
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Hospital job in general or in those areas? Depends where you're at and how long you've been out. There's another thread on here about compensation from some of us at hospitals so you can see those but any hospital should be hiring at MGMA average or thereabouts for first year. I've seen a 375k starting offer from a resident 2 years younger where I went but salaries that high are middle of nowhere hospital gigs so depends what you're willing to sacrifice. 365k for an employed pod should be no problem. most places that's under or around 7k RVUs.
 
Midwest private practice offer was no guaranteed salary (in other words, no pay until you bill out work AND it is paid), no customer base (must build your own), no holiday or vacation pay, you must pay for your own malpractice, no health insurance, crappy 401k. Non-Compete pretty well handcuffs from taking any local position. "Trust me, you can build a wonderful income" was said more than once.....................................
 
36Tango said:
Midwest private practice offer was no guaranteed salary (in other words, no pay until you bill out work AND it is paid), no customer base (must build your own), no holiday or vacation pay, you must pay for your own malpractice, no health insurance, crappy 401k. Non-Compete pretty well handcuffs from taking any local position. "Trust me, you can build a wonderful income" was said more than once.....................................
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So a useless offer
 
Been looking online. Really nothing out there. Have heard of multiple graduating residents getting these $275k+ hospital jobs… not sure how.
 
The job market is very much depressing still. Old co-resident of mine applying for jobs said a PP associate offer of 140K base for 1 year with collections bonus received over 60 applicants
 
Sweatshirt said:
The job market is very much depressing still. Old co-resident of mine applying for jobs said a PP associate offer of 140K base for 1 year with collections bonus received over 60 applicants
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Even if one would get the job with 60 applicants there would be little incentive from the owner to pay better or offer partnership with that kind of demand. Mustache podiatrist comments aside, most businesses would just not do so with that kind of saturation.

We can say it nicely in that one needs to be geographically open or create their own job or just say it bluntly that our job market is not good.
 
Been looking around at leaving my rural hospital job because I’m not near busy enough in clinic or surgically to get my cases for ABFAS and it doesn’t seem like this will change.

Recently got an offer from an ortho group in a moderate COL area. 130k base with 20% net collections (after subtracting provider expenses, does not include imaging or DME) after 2.1x base. Seems like a pretty bad offer to me, but figured I would post it anyway to get some opinions.

The other side of this is I would definitely get the cases I would need for ABFAS foot and RRA and job opportunities that have the cases and pathology to do that seem to be far and few at the moment. I am considering trying to negotiate up to 35% of net collections as a bonus knowing they probably won’t go for this but maybe settle on 30.

Thoughts?
 
Podstar said:
Been looking around at leaving my rural hospital job because I’m not near busy enough in clinic or surgically to get my cases for ABFAS and it doesn’t seem like this will change.

Recently got an offer from an ortho group in a moderate COL area. 130k base with 20% net collections (after subtracting provider expenses, does not include imaging or DME) after 2.1x base. Seems like a pretty bad offer to me, but figured I would post it anyway to get some opinions.

The other side of this is I would definitely get the cases I would need for ABFAS foot and RRA and job opportunities that have the cases and pathology to do that seem to be far and few at the moment. I am considering trying to negotiate up to 35% of net collections as a bonus knowing they probably won’t go for this but maybe settle on 30.

Thoughts?
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From what I've been seeing big groups have been catching on that you don't have to pay a lot more to entice. I saw a similar offer for a large group, 120k but 40% after 2x base which is a lot better than most pp.
 
Podstar said:
Been looking around at leaving my rural hospital job because I’m not near busy enough in clinic or surgically to get my cases for ABFAS and it doesn’t seem like this will change.

Recently got an offer from an ortho group in a moderate COL area. 130k base with 20% net collections (after subtracting provider expenses, does not include imaging or DME) after 2.1x base. Seems like a pretty bad offer to me, but figured I would post it anyway to get some opinions.

The other side of this is I would definitely get the cases I would need for ABFAS foot and RRA and job opportunities that have the cases and pathology to do that seem to be far and few at the moment. I am considering trying to negotiate up to 35% of net collections as a bonus knowing they probably won’t go for this but maybe settle on 30.

Thoughts?
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You’re sure the ortho group is going to give you RRA cases?
 
What morton said.
I'd be most weary if they'll give you the cases unless they don't have an F&A at all.
Even if you swallowed low salary up front in order to get cases for ABFAS and dip, do they have the case load and will they give it to you?
Otherwise you're stuck in the same situation as before with significantly less pay + benefits.
 
Podstar said:
Been looking around at leaving my rural hospital job because I’m not near busy enough in clinic or surgically to get my cases for ABFAS and it doesn’t seem like this will change.

Recently got an offer from an ortho group in a moderate COL area. 130k base with 20% net collections (after subtracting provider expenses, does not include imaging or DME) after 2.1x base. Seems like a pretty bad offer to me, but figured I would post it anyway to get some opinions.

The other side of this is I would definitely get the cases I would need for ABFAS foot and RRA and job opportunities that have the cases and pathology to do that seem to be far and few at the moment. I am considering trying to negotiate up to 35% of net collections as a bonus knowing they probably won’t go for this but maybe settle on 30.

Thoughts?
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What's being missed here? Presumably they own X-ray, maybe MRI. Do they hire radiologists to remotely read the x-rays for professional fees and then you have to be partner to get a cut of the imaging (and DME) technical fee? Do they own PT? Surgery center? Are they somehow paying for solid gold benefits? Is there something we aren't seeing. Because otherwise there's a a fairly weak meme here.

Podiatric Incentives

Leaving a hospital job
to get ABFAS, but you earn 20% of collections
So you can try to get a hospital job again
 
What is a realistic net goal (for bonusing) for someone who is joining a practice and isn't on insurance plans etc? It seems like it takes forever to get on plans and get privileges. I know you can bill under another provider but how does that actually work? Even as far as doing surgeries at surgery centers? Thanks

Considering some job offers (in a very saturated area) and I know the goal for PP is usually 3x base but I've only seen 3.5-4x base. And with base hovering around 100-150k is it realistic to generate 400-500k for a practice in your first year or is that more as you get busier in subsequent years? Bonuses starting at around 30 or 35% which seems standard. Just not sure how achievable that carrot is
 
heybrother said:
What's being missed here? Presumably they own X-ray, maybe MRI. Do they hire radiologists to remotely read the x-rays for professional fees and then you have to be partner to get a cut of the imaging (and DME) technical fee? Do they own PT? Surgery center? Are they somehow paying for solid gold benefits? Is there something we aren't seeing. Because otherwise there's a a fairly weak meme here.

Podiatric Incentives

Leaving a hospital job
to get ABFAS, but you earn 20% of collections
So you can try to get a hospital job again
Click to expand...
I should have been more detailed. This is a small ortho practice with one general ortho and one podiatrist in a city of 30k with no other podiatry and no foot and ankle ortho. Ortho is the owner of the practice and podiatry, current and new are associates with no path to partnership. Podiatry covers all foot and ankle except the occasional long time patient of ortho guy that has a non elective injury. The practice owns x ray and does not send out for radiology reads all reads are done by the ordering physician. They do not own MRI and no in house PT. They do own a surgery center details on buying in or ownership in this are not stated on the initial offer. They do offer 401k with match, benefits, disability etc but those details are not laid out in the initial offer letter. Their podiatrist they have now told me they made 295k in year two but I just don’t see how that is at all possible if they were given and accepted the same offer I was. They got foot certified after one year and submitted RRA after year two.

I am in my first year out of residency with good training and at my current hospital job have only done 1 surgery in the last 6 months. I am only seeing 4-8 patients per day with no real surgical pathology. I don’t think I have much chance at all to get ABFAS in my current situation. I am ABPM certified and ABFAS foot and RRA qualified. I have been applying around the last few months but there hasn’t been too many opportunities that offer the pathology for foot and RRA.

Basically I would try to negotiate this to 30-35% or suck it up for a few years and get my boards and move on if the opportunity for more isn’t there. I am worried about skill atrophy if I stay much longer in my current position.
 
Podstar said:
I should have been more detailed. This is a small ortho practice with one general ortho and one podiatrist in a city of 30k with no other podiatry and no foot and ankle ortho. Ortho is the owner of the practice and podiatry, current and new are associates with no path to partnership. Podiatry covers all foot and ankle except the occasional long time patient of ortho guy that has a non elective injury. The practice owns x ray and does not send out for radiology reads all reads are done by the ordering physician. They do not own MRI and no in house PT. They do own a surgery center details on buying in or ownership in this are not stated on the initial offer. They do offer 401k with match, benefits, disability etc but those details are not laid out in the initial offer letter. Their podiatrist they have now told me they made 295k in year two but I just don’t see how that is at all possible if they were given and accepted the same offer I was. They got foot certified after one year and submitted RRA after year two.

I am in my first year out of residency with good training and at my current hospital job have only done 1 surgery in the last 6 months. I am only seeing 4-8 patients per day with no real surgical pathology. I don’t think I have much chance at all to get ABFAS in my current situation. I am ABPM certified and ABFAS foot and RRA qualified. I have been applying around the last few months but there hasn’t been too many opportunities that offer the pathology for foot and RRA.

Basically I would try to negotiate this to 30-35% or suck it up for a few years and get my boards and move on if the opportunity for more isn’t there. I am worried about skill atrophy if I stay much longer in my current position.
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I’m a bit worried about skill atrophy as well. I’m doing 1-2 cases a week but it’s almost all diabetic foot right now. Haven’t done a scope since residency and not sure how it would go at this point.
 
Today's posts are pretty depressing. Buyer beware for podiatry students thinking it won't happen to them and for those newly minted fellowship trained podiatrists who still think it won't happen to them. Guess what? It's going to happen to you.

120K base salary and 20% collections after 2x base in a small crappy local ortho group in a town of 30K is an atrocious offer. It would be remotely interesting if you were the only DPM in the group but now you are sharing the load with the DPM in the group which makes me think you won't be making much money at all.

Anything under 250K total compensation after 7 years of school and residency training is atrocious and you were better off going to trade school or becoming a PA or becoming an NP than being a podiatrist.
 
Podstar said:
I should have been more detailed. This is a small ortho practice with one general ortho and one podiatrist in a city of 30k with no other podiatry and no foot and ankle ortho. Ortho is the owner of the practice and podiatry, current and new are associates with no path to partnership. Podiatry covers all foot and ankle except the occasional long time patient of ortho guy that has a non elective injury. The practice owns x ray and does not send out for radiology reads all reads are done by the ordering physician. They do not own MRI and no in house PT. They do own a surgery center details on buying in or ownership in this are not stated on the initial offer. They do offer 401k with match, benefits, disability etc but those details are not laid out in the initial offer letter. Their podiatrist they have now told me they made 295k in year two but I just don’t see how that is at all possible if they were given and accepted the same offer I was. They got foot certified after one year and submitted RRA after year two.

I am in my first year out of residency with good training and at my current hospital job have only done 1 surgery in the last 6 months. I am only seeing 4-8 patients per day with no real surgical pathology. I don’t think I have much chance at all to get ABFAS in my current situation. I am ABPM certified and ABFAS foot and RRA qualified. I have been applying around the last few months but there hasn’t been too many opportunities that offer the pathology for foot and RRA.

Basically I would try to negotiate this to 30-35% or suck it up for a few years and get my boards and move on if the opportunity for more isn’t there. I am worried about skill atrophy if I stay much longer in my current position.
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I was able to get rear foot board certified doing 40 cases a year at a very rural hospital.... Surely you're getting paid well there. Give it a few years. You don't know what you don't know. I at least already had 18 months at my initial job out of residency under my belt. The job you are describing is private practice. It's not an ortho group and it sounds like a terrible idea. The lack of surgical pathology that you're seeing is likely more related to you, your ability to educate the community and find surgical cases. Not sure what your definition of rural is, the hospital job that I was at I lived in a town of 5,000 people and my county and the adjacent one was about 12 and a half thousand to 15,000 total catch area. That's rural. And there was enough cases that I found but it took me some time to educate and build the practice. That's what you need to learn how to do. Learn to bake some better cookies.

Joking about the cookies. But primary care sending stuff out, the ER is sending stuff out, you need to educate people on what your skill set is. It takes time for people to change referral practices. Now if you tell me there's Ortho in town doing all these cases and there are none for you then that's one thing. But if there are zero other people in your community doing any foot and ankle surgery and you're saying there is not enough volume this is a you problem.

And you need more chocolate chips.
 
Podstar said:
I should have been more detailed. This is a small ortho practice with one general ortho and one podiatrist in a city of 30k with no other podiatry and no foot and ankle ortho. Ortho is the owner of the practice and podiatry, current and new are associates with no path to partnership. Podiatry covers all foot and ankle except the occasional long time patient of ortho guy that has a non elective injury. The practice owns x ray and does not send out for radiology reads all reads are done by the ordering physician. They do not own MRI and no in house PT. They do own a surgery center details on buying in or ownership in this are not stated on the initial offer. They do offer 401k with match, benefits, disability etc but those details are not laid out in the initial offer letter. Their podiatrist they have now told me they made 295k in year two but I just don’t see how that is at all possible if they were given and accepted the same offer I was. They got foot certified after one year and submitted RRA after year two.

I am in my first year out of residency with good training and at my current hospital job have only done 1 surgery in the last 6 months. I am only seeing 4-8 patients per day with no real surgical pathology. I don’t think I have much chance at all to get ABFAS in my current situation. I am ABPM certified and ABFAS foot and RRA qualified. I have been applying around the last few months but there hasn’t been too many opportunities that offer the pathology for foot and RRA.

Basically I would try to negotiate this to 30-35% or suck it up for a few years and get my boards and move on if the opportunity for more isn’t there. I am worried about skill atrophy if I stay much longer in my current position.
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I do not recommend you go this route

use the time not seeing patients to go market, advertise, network. Hustle as hard as you can because you will likely need to do the same in the small PP group.

You’re not even one year into this job, don’t give up.

It took me a good two years to build up volume to operate 2-2.5 days a week consistently even though I’m in a very large metro city.

Some people only rely on word of mouth referrals. That can work well but I still hustled and marketed myself to draw in more organic business/referrals
 
Podstar said:
Been looking around at leaving my rural hospital job because I’m not near busy enough in clinic or surgically to get my cases for ABFAS and it doesn’t seem like this will change.

Recently got an offer from an ortho group in a moderate COL area. 130k base with 20% net collections (after subtracting provider expenses, does not include imaging or DME) after 2.1x base. Seems like a pretty bad offer to me, but figured I would post it anyway to get some opinions.

The other side of this is I would definitely get the cases I would need for ABFAS foot and RRA and job opportunities that have the cases and pathology to do that seem to be far and few at the moment. I am considering trying to negotiate up to 35% of net collections as a bonus knowing they probably won’t go for this but maybe settle on 30.

Thoughts?
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What's the end goal? I'm assuming as a hospital pod you're compensated handsomely for your actual volume. Yes, it would be nice for higher surgical volume but what does ABFAS buy you that you don't currently have? Unless the system is saying you need it to keep your position, in which case you can argue ABPM. Or is job security long term a concern given the volume? As others have said and I'm experiencing, lower volume rural that pays 1.5-2x what a PP position would seems like a no brainer, especially if you have a family. At the end of the day work is work. Collecting a paycheck and going home is always the end goal.
 
Agree a lot with what people said above.
I wouldn't drop your job simply because of low case volume and lack of pathology.

Adding to what bluecollar said.
What happens after you meet all your numbers and get ABFAS cert while still being stuck in the PP gig?
Are you going to job search again and uproot?

If you're single and don't care, by all means go for it. Your ABFAS cert and 2-3 years out working will put you above new grads for hospital positions- but you are still fighting the same job market as your class + everyone who graduated after you.
With a family, I wouldn't be able to give up what you have right now.

Its super easy to hate myself at this stage. Fresh out. Not seeing clinic or surgery load like we're used to in residency.
Dealing more with paperwork, insurances, crappy politics from surrounding hospitals and docs instead of seeing and treating patients.
Even the MD/DO guys said they hated this stage in their life while they were first starting out.

It will pick up.
Think hard about the vision you want after ABFAS cert and if there's anything else you can do in your current system to bump surgical numbers and get there.
You have a golden ticket job right now.
 
I really appreciate all of the comments. I knew this was a bad offer, but just wanted to see some different opinions. Gonna likely hold steady where I am for now and be a bit more aggressive than I have been, network some more, and give it some time. 7 years to get cases is a long time and although I’d like to get it right away it is not worth giving up what I have. Again, thanks for all the responses y’all.
 
Podstar said:
I really appreciate all of the comments. I knew this was a bad offer, but just wanted to see some different opinions. Gonna likely hold steady where I am for now and be a bit more aggressive than I have been, network some more, and give it some time. 7 years to get cases is a long time and although I’d like to get it right away it is not worth giving up what I have. Again, thanks for all the responses y’all.
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And this is the problem with abfas…..

Those 7 years start ticking and then you’re doing surgery on someone who isn’t a good candidate. (Not saying you will… just podiatrists in general)
 
Podstar said:
I really appreciate all of the comments. I knew this was a bad offer, but just wanted to see some different opinions. Gonna likely hold steady where I am for now and be a bit more aggressive than I have been, network some more, and give it some time. 7 years to get cases is a long time and although I’d like to get it right away it is not worth giving up what I have. Again, thanks for all the responses y’all.
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why not ride this until the wheels fall off. You can argue abpm if the hospital needs a boards
 
Podstar said:
I really appreciate all of the comments. I knew this was a bad offer, but just wanted to see some different opinions. Gonna likely hold steady where I am for now and be a bit more aggressive than I have been, network some more, and give it some time. 7 years to get cases is a long time and although I’d like to get it right away it is not worth giving up what I have. Again, thanks for all the responses y’all.
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You got your job without abfas. 20 yrs from now if your still there and making more money then what would abfas have done for you. Unless you want to hop jobs risk is low tbh.
 
podwho said:
You got your job without abfas. 20 yrs from now if your still there and making more money then what would abfas have done for you. Unless you want to hop jobs risk is low tbh.
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I'm guessing he/she is ABFAS qualified but doesn't have the cases for review process to get certified. My hospital specially states that I hold a certification or actively working towards one (neither mentioned in name) so passing the tests works for me while I build case log.
 
Bluecollarmed said:
I'm guessing he/she is ABFAS qualified but doesn't have the cases for review process to get certified. My hospital specially states that I hold a certification or actively working towards one (neither mentioned in name) so passing the tests works for me while I build case log.
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So maybe get abpm cert while trying for abfas
 
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