*~*~*~*Official Letters of Recommendation Questions Thread 2014-2015*~*~*~*

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I have a letter for non-science from a phd student who taught my class entiry herself, is that okay? Also I also have a rec from a lady who is a PhD in the old lab i worked in, but she wasn't faculty. I think her rec will be the best out of all of mine, but will it be looked down upon since shes not faculty? (I have 2 more science faculty recs tho btw)
 
1) I know the title of the professor is important, but is it detrimental to get a letter from an "Assistant Professor" instead of a "Professor?" Both have a Ph.D.

2) How significant is the course title? For example, I could either receive a very average letter from a 400-level Biochemistry professor, or I could receive a better letter from a 100-level Chemistry course. I got a 3.5 in the Biochemistry course and a 3.8 in the General Chemistry course, plus the Chemistry professor knows me better.

3) How important is it to get a letter from the P.I. of my research lab? I have been working in my lab for nearly 2 years but have been working with a couple Ph.D.s who can speak better about me than my P.I., who I barely know. My P.I. doesn't really work with the undergrads in my lab, while the other Ph.D.s do. I could either (a) ask my P.I. for the letter, or (b) have one of the other Ph.D.s write the letter and have my P.I. sign off on it to verify what my letter writer wrote. Somebody recommended (b) to me but I'm still unsure because I've got a feeling that medical schools are looking strictly for a letter written by the P.I.
 
1) I know the title of the professor is important, but is it detrimental to get a letter from an "Assistant Professor" instead of a "Professor?" Both have a Ph.D.

2) How significant is the course title? For example, I could either receive a very average letter from a 400-level Biochemistry professor, or I could receive a better letter from a 100-level Chemistry course. I got a 3.5 in the Biochemistry course and a 3.8 in the General Chemistry course, plus the Chemistry professor knows me better.

3) How important is it to get a letter from the P.I. of my research lab? I have been working in my lab for nearly 2 years but have been working with a couple Ph.D.s who can speak better about me than my P.I., who I barely know. My P.I. doesn't really work with the undergrads in my lab, while the other Ph.D.s do. I could either (a) ask my P.I. for the letter, or (b) have one of the other Ph.D.s write the letter and have my P.I. sign off on it to verify what my letter writer wrote. Somebody recommended (b) to me but I'm still unsure because I've got a feeling that medical schools are looking strictly for a letter written by the P.I.

I know for a fact the course title nor faculty title should matter (so long as they are faculty employed by the school. The full professor vs. adjunct/lecturer/etc. matters more for grad schools). Pick the one that can speak the best about you. ADCOMs don't know you or your situation, only the writing on the page, so focus on what can optimize that to give them the best opinion about you. As for a PI vs. random PhD in the lab, I'm not sure since I'm facing the same dilemma myself
 
I know for a fact the course title nor faculty title should matter (so long as they are faculty employed by the school. The full professor vs. adjunct/lecturer/etc. matters more for grad schools). Pick the one that can speak the best about you. ADCOMs don't know you or your situation, only the writing on the page, so focus on what can optimize that to give them the best opinion about you. As for a PI vs. random PhD in the lab, I'm not sure since I'm facing the same dilemma myself

It is the strength, enthusiasm, and quality of the letter, especially how well known the applicant is by the write that matters most. It is at least a magnitude of importance over the perceived "prestige" factor (ie title, rank, position) that the writer has. Someone who knows you well, can explain how and why they know you well, and express the qualities that show motivation, commitment and achievement. For example, you may get a much better letter from a postdoc in the lab who you have worked with closely for 18 moths then you can a full professor PI who you barely know even though he runs the lab. So it really doesn't matter if it is the chem 101 ass't prof who you have kept in touch with, the grad student TA or lab guy you worked with, or whomever. Obviously if you have a good relationship with PI or department chair and they can write a strong letter that shows they you and your reputation/qualities, that is great. But a letter that is written perfunctorily by a PI will hurt rather than help.

The above may hold a bit less true for those looking at MD-PhD. I have on a few occasions seen a PI or Full Prof either jointly submit a letter mostly written by a postdoc or grad student or have the PI write a letter that is mostly expressing what his/her postdoc or grad student has expressed about the student. Those can be a little tricky to pull off.
 
There is a slight misnomer that both the typical applicant and letter writer have about the confidentiality of LOR. This confidentiality is specifically waiving your rights to see the letter under the Family Educational Rights and Privacy Act of 1974 (FERPA ) under the commonly called Buckley amendment. This means that the applicant can not demand to read the letter. However, there is nothing in this waiver that prevents a letter writing from sharing the letter with the applicant. In other words, the student can not request, but the letter writer is free to give if he/she chooses to do so. That does not violate any confidentiality agreement. It is perfectly fine for a letter writer to give you a copy of the letter if he/she so chooses.
I understand that, my comment was referring to the schools themselves discussing the applicant's letters. Since that would be done without the express permission of the letter writers, and given that the letters were written by the writers with the understanding that the contents would not be disclosed to the applicant unless by the writers themselves, I would find this inappropriate and I doubt schools would do so.
 
After taking a look at the Excel list on page one, looks like I'll need at least one more LoR. But when I had checked with certain school sites, I thought I was fine. For instance, MSAR shows that the minimum number of letters at Northwestern is one! Same thing with BU, whereas Mount Sinai is 2-8. I have 5 so far: 2 science, 2 PIs, and one advisor (which isn't a committee letter apparently). Do I need to find a non-science/Humanities too?
 
After taking a look at the Excel list on page one, looks like I'll need at least one more LoR. But when I had checked with certain school sites, I thought I was fine. For instance, MSAR shows that the minimum number of letters at Northwestern is one! Same thing with BU, whereas Mount Sinai is 2-8. I have 5 so far: 2 science, 2 PIs, and one advisor (which isn't a committee letter apparently). Do I need to find a non-science/Humanities too?

Check your schools' websites and e-mail them. For example, I e-mailed RWJMS and they told me they don't have a non-science requirement, but NJMS states on their website that they want at least one non-science faculty rec. If you have a non-science faculty that can speak strongly of you I'd just cop that letter anyways since it gives you some more well-rounded character
 
yes, that is typically what students do. Some medical schools require a committee letter OR individual letters or some combination thereof. So you may need to send in only a committee letter or only a individual letters


Thank you for your response. I figured but just wanted to be sure since many schools I am interested in list it as either/or not both, as I intend to submit it.
 
From the perspective of a letter writer:

  • Ask early, ask often. I get buckets of emails and, even if I like you, it may slip my mind. Don't be afraid to send a follow-up email two weeks after your request. Even better, show up at office hours to chat.
  • Give me your resume or CV. Don't have one? Make one.
  • Tell me about your interests so I can personalize it
  • Let me know what you need me to highlight. Your scientific aptitude? Communication? Sexual prowess? (please no.)
  • Let me know the *@#)$&!)%#^@@ due date.
  • Make sure I know you and you're doing well enough to write a good recommendation. I had a really mediocre student ask me for a rec and I had to be honest that the student was very nice but rather meh. You don't want that.
 
From the perspective of a letter writer:

  • Ask early, ask often. I get buckets of emails and, even if I like you, it may slip my mind. Don't be afraid to send a follow-up email two weeks after your request. Even better, show up at office hours to chat.
  • Make sure I know you and you're doing well enough to write a good recommendation. I had a really mediocre student ask me for a rec and I had to be honest that the student was very nice but rather meh. You don't want that.

just emphasis the above,

keep after them, make sure they submit, make sure it is received by AMCAS and finally by the schools.

Make sure they will write a STRONG recommendation.
 
What do you think of this: my PI is German, is not at all chatty, and can be totally focused on the data and miss the world around us (including me). I've worked for him for the past year and asked him for a LoR. He was totally put off. Not because I asked him late or he doesn't know me. But that's his way. He said he'd only be able to write just a little. Do you see the picture? Strong accent, gruff nature, etc. Do you think it's a little too risky to include this? He's not rude nor would he say something directly negative, but he doesn't speak of anyone glowingly. Don't I need to include this letter no matter what?
 
What do you think of this: my PI is German, is not at all chatty, and can be totally focused on the data and miss the world around us (including me). I've worked for him for the past year and asked him for a LoR. He was totally put off. Not because I asked him late or he doesn't know me. But that's his way. He said he'd only be able to write just a little. Do you see the picture? Strong accent, gruff nature, etc. Do you think it's a little too risky to include this? He's not rude nor would he say something directly negative, but he doesn't speak of anyone glowingly. Don't I need to include this letter no matter what?

A letter that is NOT strong recommendation, for whatever reason, can be misconstrued by the Adcom. They will not know that your PI isnt the most eloquent of writers and might wonder why he isnt writing something stronger.

I wouldn't include this letter in a package. Many students do not get a PI letter as they may worked mostly with a post doc, a grad students, etc. Indeed I know some students never meet the course professor or director and get letters from the TA.
 
My school compiles a committee letter. It consists of 1 science prof, 1 non-science prof, and 1 other (I used a physician.)

So do schools count my committee letter packet as 4 letters, or just 1? besides that do I need to go find more LOR and have them send them to AMCAS :shrug:
 
My school compiles a committee letter. It consists of 1 science prof, 1 non-science prof, and 1 other (I used a physician.)

So do schools count my committee letter packet as 4 letters, or just 1? besides that do I need to go find more LOR and have them send them to AMCAS :shrug:

Rule 3: It depends

Your committee letter would count as 1 letter. However, most medical schools require a committee letter OR individual letters but not usually both. You need to check the MSAR and/or each school's website for the requirements of any one particular program
 
Hello,

I’m a pre-med Canadian student interested in applying for American medical schools this year.

I know letter of references are really big there.

*How long do you need to know the person you’re asking a LOR from?

*Let’s say you didn’t get the chance to directly research with any professors. Will this be a big set-back in the application?
 
OK so this may have been asked in previous years, but I can't find anything about..it almost seems like taboo to even ask...BUT, is it possible to have a former patient write me a LOR??
I have several strong letters (MD, PA, and Anatomy prof), but a former patient at my work(I'm a medical assistant at a PCP) now works for the front desk and she, more than anyone, sees how hard I work and the effort I put into patient care. She also so happens to be a fabulous writer, very kind, and thinks super highly of me.. I know she could include some great personal things as well. If allowed.. how would that look? I would think a patient would have the greatest say on whether someone would make for a good physician, but I could be way off here..
 
OK so this may have been asked in previous years, but I can't find anything about..it almost seems like taboo to even ask...BUT, is it possible to have a former patient write me a LOR??
I have several strong letters (MD, PA, and Anatomy prof), but a former patient at my work(I'm a medical assistant at a PCP) now works for the front desk and she, more than anyone, sees how hard I work and the effort I put into patient care. She also so happens to be a fabulous writer, very kind, and thinks super highly of me.. I know she could include some great personal things as well. If allowed.. how would that look? I would think a patient would have the greatest say on whether someone would make for a good physician, but I could be way off here..

If the patient was someone you worked with at length or indepth, such a PT, therapy aide, CNA, or volunteer on hospital floor, I could see it having some amount of weight. I just dont see the impact of a patient for the PCP that you work for at the desk. And the issue with a weak or ineffective that seems like padding, it can make an adcom member wonder in a negative way: is the applicant is trying to over reach, doesnt have enough good LORs, is padding other things, etc.

A mediocre letter can subtract from total of good letters. Four good letters will be just that. Four good letters and one weak letter will reduce the impact of them all.
 
Hi all, if I plan to have a pre-health composite letter sent, is that the only letter that schools would like? Or would it be ok for me to send an individual letter (separate from the pre-health letter) that I know to be very good?
 
A letter that is NOT strong recommendation, for whatever reason, can be misconstrued by the Adcom. They will not know that your PI isnt the most eloquent of writers and might wonder why he isnt writing something stronger.

I wouldn't include this letter in a package. Many students do not get a PI letter as they may worked mostly with a post doc, a grad students, etc. Indeed I know some students never meet the course professor or director and get letters from the TA.

Hello! My question is similar to what ThisCouldbeYou asked regarding his PI.
I have done two years of research in a lab, but my PI isn't much of a people-person, and I only saw him during group meetings. Therefore, I do not think that my PI can write a strong LOR for me.
However, I was really close to the post-doc that I directly worked with every day in the lab, and he now works in a different state as the director of a large government lab. So, my questions are:

1. Would a LOR from the post-doc be a good idea for medical school?
2. Would the adcom question why I opted to get a LOR from the post-doc instead of my PI?
3. Would this be able to count as a LOR from a science professor although he did not teach any classes?

Thank you!
 
Do most schools require all the LOR's in before looking at my application? It seems that my professor will unable to write one for me until early July
 
For Letters, do schools read them post or pre interview?

I know we don't need them for Primaries and Secondaries (?)
 
One more question:

How much weight is really put on letters from professors?

I've heard conflicting answers from multiple sources. Some people tell me the professor letters are more of a checklist and your extracurricular letters hold more weight and some have told me all that matter are the professor letters.

Have y'all heard the same?
 
I have a question regarding the research letter. So I've worked in a lab for close to two years now (am applying this cycle), and am looking to get a recommendation. The only thing I'm unsure about is that I've spent these two years mainly working with my supervisor and having very little contact with my PI (we have a large lab, so students mainly work with postdocs/lab scientists). I've already met with my supervisor who told me he would be happy to write me a letter, but also asked if I had thought about asking my PI to write it/a part of it.

My PI honestly doesn't know a thing about me, beyond the fact that I've been here for two years. My supervisor could meet with him to discuss things, but I'm worried that I'd be "losing" some of that personal relationship-ness in the process. My supervisor, however, had asked if I'd thought about asking my PI to contribute because he's a well-known name in this particular field of research.

Would you recommend that I simply just stick to my supervisor writing a recommendation or approach the PI and ask him to contribute to some extent (co-sign, or do more)? (I feel a little awkward doing the latter, but I'm told that students in the past have done this).
 
Hi,

If I am planning to submit my AMCAS app early June (without my MCAT score until mid-June ish), when's the latest (during June) can I send my LORs to AMCAS without delaying verification?

Or does verification have nothing to do with LOR receipt, while application complete does? If so, is there a 'preferred' date to have them sent in by?

Everything I have read/watched from AMCAS says there is no deadline for LORs and it does not hold up your application..however individual schools have their own deadlines and your late LORs might hurt you there. The sooner the better my friend.
 
Hey all, a few questions:

I'm a non-trad student (27 y/o) doing an MPH right now and working full time.
1) Would any MPH classes count towards a science LOR? Specifically epidemiology or biostats?

2) During undergrad, I took an "independent research lab" with a prof (with a labeled class code) - would I be able to use her as a science LOR?

3) Can/should you re-use letters? and do old dates matter on LORs? This is my second time applying and all my letters are dated a few years back. Should I get my letter writers to re-date and/or rewrite the letters?


It's so hard to get science LORs being out of school for so long 🙁 thanks in advance.
 
Hello,

If I am unable to get a non-science letter (have graduated far too long ago), is it recommended to email each medical school I'm interested in to ask for their permission on whether I can submit another letter in substitution for a non-science one?

If I do obtain their permission, is there anywhere on the app I can attach a note in regards to it, or are admission committees usually aware of most of these correspondences?

Thanks.
 
I started an application for 2013-2014 cycle but ended up waiting to take the MCAT. I am applying this cycle (2014-1015) and need some help regarding my letters of rec.

I had my writers submit via the writer application on AMCAS and realize I won't be able to transfer the letters to the new application once it opens in May.

However, my writers have each sent me 4 individually sealed letters that are signed across the back. Will I be able to just print out the cover page that AMCAS wants, include it in a larger envelope with the sealed letter and mail it directly? Also, it hasn't been a year, are my letter still valid?

Or should I just call AMCAS directly and explain my situation?
 
Hey all, a few questions:

I'm a non-trad student (27 y/o) doing an MPH right now and working full time.
1) Would any MPH classes count towards a science LOR? Specifically epidemiology or biostats?

2) During undergrad, I took an "independent research lab" with a prof (with a labeled class code) - would I be able to use her as a science LOR?

3) Can/should you re-use letters? and do old dates matter on LORs? This is my second time applying and all my letters are dated a few years back. Should I get my letter writers to re-date and/or rewrite the letters?


It's so hard to get science LORs being out of school for so long 🙁 thanks in advance.


A course counts as science if it is BCPM (https://www.aamc.org/students/download/181694/data/amcas_course_classification_guide.pdf)
I think the consensus on old letters if you should email the writer with some updates on what you're up to and ask them to update the date / add anything they want, though they might not change the letter at all.

I'm not sure about 2 but I've been told that a PI's letter doesn't count as a science "class" even if you received credit for research.
 
I started an application for 2013-2014 cycle but ended up waiting to take the MCAT. I am applying this cycle (2014-1015) and need some help regarding my letters of rec.

I had my writers submit via the writer application on AMCAS and realize I won't be able to transfer the letters to the new application once it opens in May.

However, my writers have each sent me 4 individually sealed letters that are signed across the back. Will I be able to just print out the cover page that AMCAS wants, include it in a larger envelope with the sealed letter and mail it directly? Also, it hasn't been a year, are my letter still valid?

Or should I just call AMCAS directly and explain my situation?


I think I would just send the letters directly to interfolio. That's what I did for my application last year, and I had no issues. Hope that helps!
 
Another question- I already have two letters of recommendation on my Interfolio account. How do I pair the AMCAS letter of evaluation form with these?

You mean how do you upload the letters to AMCAS from Interfolio? Once the AMCAS application becomes available you can go to your letters of evaluation tab and select "Add another letter". This will assign you a unique AMCAS letter ID. Then you can log into Interfolio, click "Start new delivery", type in AMCAS for the organization, add the letter you want uploaded, and associate it with the correct letter ID. Make absolute sure you have the correct ID - I accidentally mixed up letter IDs the first time and it took AMCAS a while to fix it.
 
Hi all,

I just wanted to clarify if there is a general definition of "non-science" faculty letter - is it anything outside of BCPM, or should I contact individual schools to be sure? The thing is that psychology at my school is considered a science, but AMCAS places it under "Behavioral and Social Sciences", so I'd like to be sure that psychology would be considered a non-science area.

With regards to "applying early", my understanding is that my application should be submitted in early June and hope to be verified by the end of June, but my letters can arrive after verification. However, when do my letters need to arrive by to ensure it won't hinder the assessment of my application? I don't want to give my letter writers unnecessarily stringent deadlines, especially since I will be asking them for references for other applications as well.

Thanks in advance!
 
I'm honestly confused how this whole process works.
One, do the letters get sent with our applications if we use AMCAS?
Two, if I use interfolio do I have to send it to AMCAS first?
Something strikes me as odd, why does the AMCAS website say you have to send them to AMCAS?
Can I use interfolio to send them directly to medical schools?
I'm extremely confused....
What is the purpose of sending it to AMCAS? Do they send the letters out or do we use our dossier service to send our letters to schools we applied to?
 
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What should be letters of recommendation composition before schools that specify what they want? I got a bunch of stellar science prof letters, a math prof that also has a stellar letter, an awesome cosmetic dinner, good doctor i scribed for's letter, and a humanities professor. Is there some optimal configuration? Will it look worse if I don't include a MD recommendation letter?
 
Can someone breakdown the interfolio LOR submitting process?
1) I entered all of the letters of evaluators on the amcas website so they all have letter IDs (do I still have to send those things to evaluators even though i'm using interfolio? seems like a huge pain)
2) I copy and pasted the letter IDs from amcas to interfolio and made a delivery to amcas, which is now complete and made sure my AMCAS ID was on my interfolio account. I did this yesterday and interfolio said it was complete today.
3) Even with that my LORs aren't showing up on the amcas website. How long does it take the amcas to put things up. Is there anything I did wrong or didn't do?
 
A course counts as science if it is BCPM (https://www.aamc.org/students/download/181694/data/amcas_course_classification_guide.pdf)
I think the consensus on old letters if you should email the writer with some updates on what you're up to and ask them to update the date / add anything they want, though they might not change the letter at all.

I'm not sure about 2 but I've been told that a PI's letter doesn't count as a science "class" even if you received credit for research.

I would like to note that Emory does not count math as science. I gave them a call today and they confirmed that it has to be BCP. I'm not sure if any other schools do it this way.
 
I'm honestly confused how this whole process works.
One, do the letters get sent with our applications if we use AMCAS?
Two, if I use interfolio do I have to send it to AMCAS first?
Something strikes me as odd, why does the AMCAS website say you have to send them to AMCAS?
Can I use interfolio to send them directly to medical schools?
I'm extremely confused....
What is the purpose of sending it to AMCAS? Do they send the letters out or do we use our dossier service to send our letters to schools we applied to?

me too. this process is really ****ing confusing and I have yet to see one clear explanation. if you scroll up a little i will show you what i did. hopefully that works, but I have no idea in all honesty.
 
To anyone that has used Interfolio to electronically deliver letters to AMCAS, approximately how long does it take for them to process/mark you letters as "RECEIVED" in the application?
 
I think I would just send the letters directly to interfolio. That's what I did for my application last year, and I had no issues. Hope that helps!

Thank you! I'm just hoping that the old dates on the letters won't be a problem. I really just don't want to bother my writers again because they are all extremely busy.
 
One of my LOR is the department/chair and has written me a 2.5 page intense letter...

which my committee packet person condensed into like 3 paragraphs for his packet. I know her letter would be much stronger, can I send her letter individually to schools on top of the committee letter or is that not wise?
 
Not sure if anyone asked this already, but can we submit our primary without designating who'll be our letter writers? Thanks!
 
I have a question, I have a letter of recommendation from from a DO that I shadowed. I was just wondering if it would be ok to use this letter for applying to MD schools as well as or if that may look bad.
 
I'm taking a gap year and working as a phlebotomist. I had my first job for 6 months, but due to a lack of hours to work to compensate for my long drive, I had to look for another job. However, I left on good terms with the manager, etc. My current boss told me he would be more than happy to write me a recommendation over 5 weeks ago, but he's not in the office much anymore and I haven't heard anything back from him. I even sent him a preemptive "Thank You" email asking if he needed anything else from me, but I got no response. I have 4 other strong letters from my music activities and professors I've worked with personally. Hypothetically, if my boss flakes on writing my letter, will it be okay for me to apply without an employer letter? I wouldn't feel as confident with anyone else in the lab writing me a strong letter.

Thanks for the help! Hopefully I'm just worrying over nothing >_>
 
Another Interfolio question. Is it ok for the professors and pre-health committee to email their letters to Interfolio?
And following up with that, once again is it ok if I have Interfolio email the respective letters to AMCAS?

Thanks
 
If schools have a maximum letter limit of let's say 6-7 letters, will they care if I send close to the max amount? I have a packet of 5 letters (2 sci, 1 non-sci, employer, and my PI) + 1 individual letter (6 total), and feel like sending all of them to each school that accepts over 5. The single letter is from my other PI and I don't know how great it is (but it shouldn't be bad). I'm applying to a good amount of research schools if that helps.
 
I have the following letters:

Neuroscience Professor
Biology Professor who was also my P.I
English Professor
M.D from a free clinic I volunteer at
Honors Program Director who is also a professor
Supervisor from work

Should I add anything else? Would it be excessive to send all 6 to every school?
 
Hi everyone!
So I'm just really confused with what to add for my letters of recommendation but I think that largely stems from the fact that I'm a non-traditional student. I just completed my PharmD. and am looking to apply to med school for Fall 2015.

I have a few letters from Science professors, but they're not BASIC science just considered health sciences. Does anyone know if that counts? i.e. Virology/Oncology professors.

Also, I don't have a committee letter because I just don't think that would be a very strong/beneficial letter considering I was not a member of the College of Arts and Sciences at my university that deals with writing the composite letters. I was just mainly involved with the College of Pharmacy, who are not as knowledgeable in writing committee letters for medical school.
I guess my question is should I still get a committee letter, though likely weak, or should I just get my required individual letters to send to each medical school? Will I be looked down upon if I dont have one?

Is the AMCAS Letter Service just as good as Interfolio? I don't want to sign up for Interfolio if I don't have to, but I'm confused with all the talk about one over the other in the above comments.
 
Will schools that "require" a non-science faculty letter straight up deny me, regardless of the rest of my application, if I don't have that letter? Should I even bother applying to those schools?

(There is literally no chance I can acquire said letter. I'm a few years removed from undergrad, and the only prof that MIGHT remember me passed away a year ago.)
 
does the committee letter fulfill the non science letter requirement?
 
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