Ohsu '07

[searun]

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It is simply a fact that OHSU routinely brooms out the door some of the state's brightest and best students. I have a close friend, who has remarkable academic credentials and an off the chart MCAT, plus two years of emergency room volunteer experience, who could not even make the waitlist last year. But Duke took him in a heart beat. By any reasonable measure, this guy, a native Oregonian, is in the top one percent of the nation's applicants to med school and he cannot even make the bottom of OHSU's waitlist. Oh, well, Duke was more than happy to take this Oregon cast off. This is anecdotal but it happens all the time. My own academic record and MCAT are much higher than OHSU's averages, so I am fortunate to have acceptances from several other good schools. The 70 percent number is nothing for a state school to be proud of...when it regularly sends extremely talented Oregonians packing to other schools in other states. OHSU provides a fine education but its admission process and its admission policies are, to put it politely, deficient.

 

[hamiltong]

Reading some of the stats of my Oregon collegues concerns me as to my chances (3.5, 32Q). I suppose that these are much better DO stats (I got accepted at every school I interviewed). I hoped that I may have a shot staying close to home, but it looks like I'll be going to Kansas City in the fall. I didn't make a phone call to admissions, but looking at the responses I can imagine the words I would recieve.

Yes, OHSU is a public institution, but a great majority of its funding is now coming from research projects, not from the state, almost to the point of being a private school.

I'll patiently wait for my letter next week, and miss the opportunity to take the tram to work every day. Good luck everyone.

 

[searun]

Actually, a high gpa and great MCAT score do not matter very much at OHSU. OHSU values health care employment experience much more than academic credentials. Once you get to the interview stage, your academic abilities are the least important factor in their evaluation. I assume that this is why OHSU step 1 scores are so mediocre. If you are 30 years old, married, with modest academic credentials, but have worked in health care for a few years, you have a distinct advantage over a 22 year old academic super star from Oregon who might have an easier time getting into Harvard.

 

[Doctor Bagel]

Nubbey, exactly! That was the trend according to USNews last year, too -- it really clarifies OHSU's position in accepting instate students.

Seriously, though, is anybody not going to go to OHSU just because of our griping about the admissions process at SDN? No. Heck, I would have gone to OHSU in a heartbeat just to stay in Portland -- I never really paid that much attention to the cons of the school. As it is, though, I wound up at a school in a city I like a lot less, but the school suits me more for lots of reasons (less small groups, zero subjective grading in years 1 & 2, abundant homeschooling options, less primary care emphasis in early clinical exposure, more online resources, etc.). So for those of you who didn't get in but got in elsewhere, you might find that there are positives that make it okay even if OHSU was your first choice.

 

[jmk]

I don't think anyone is bashing OHSU as an institution. I am just not a fan of this pretense to 'serve the Oregon community' but then have 68 seats in a class of 120 as the only accredited medical school in our state. I'm sorry but OSU and UO together send roughly 15 kids each year a piece to medical schools around the country... that doesn't even count people who have taken time off to do programs like Teach For America, etc. To me, this is ridiculous to think that my only state school which is so concerned about us undergrads sends their head of admissions to our school every year to preach to us about their admission process and then turns around and accepts < 30% of the Oregon applicants that apply every year. Sure, the school is 70% Oregon residents. But lets face it. 300 apply for 68 spots. Even if they give 128 accpetances that is still less 50% admittance rates. I have a bone to pick with OHSU for their admissions process. Not their school. I think the school is great. Maybe that is why I'm so bitter.

Admissions is a statistics game. They offer spots to people based on data from previous years with the ultimate goal of ending up with a matriculating class filled with certain statistics. Using data as to who was originally given a spot is a really poor measure of a school's goal. OOS applicants are going to say no more than instate students so OHSU and every other admission team (undergraduate, medical school even private elementary schools) plays the numbers.

I’m sorry some of you feel burned by the process but so far it has worked. As kathyt009 and I have said we think the diversity and strength of our class speaks for itself. Are there other people who did not make it in who would have been great? yes but that is going to happen as long as the demand for spots in medical school is greater than the spots available. For those of you with great numbers congratulations! My stats pale in comparison to anyone around here but I knew that and I did things outside of raising my gpa and mcat and apparently caught the attention of my interviewers. I call it luck and until I was willing to accept that there is a LOT of luck in this process as well as many processes in medicine I wasn’t happy.

SDN is a great place to vent but it is also a great place for those of us who know about the result of the process from both sides to set the record straight. Good luck and I hope that you all end up happy!

 

[Doctor Bagel]

Admissions is a statistics game. They offer spots to people based on data from previous years with the ultimate goal of ending up with a matriculating class filled with certain statistics. Using data as to who was originally given a spot is a really poor measure of a school's goal. OOS applicants are going to say no more than instate students so OHSU and every other admission team (undergraduate, medical school even private elementary schools) plays the numbers.

Not really -- OHSU gives much less preference instate students than almost any state school out there. My state school is required to have 85% of their students be instate, and they don't even interview anyone from oos who doesn't have strong ties to the state. You can't compare OHSU's practices with that, and you can't say that their admissions strategies are typical for schools that want to train doctors for a state.

So you like your class -- that's great. I'm sure lots of them will go back to California or wherever they're from, giving pretty much no benefit to Oregon. I'm glad they're cool people to hang out with, though, because that's really what matters in admissions criteria for a state school.

 

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[gsmithers68]

Regardless of the tuition, admissions preferences, etc., it appears that OHSU has more in-state medical school student seats per class (84 matriculated in 2006 according to the AAMC?) per capita than California, Nevada, Arizona, Washington, etc.

In terms of the percentage of applicants matriculating anywhere, Oregon is second in the west only to Montana and higher than the average from every other region.

http://www.aamc.org/data/facts/2006/2006slrmat3.htm

these statistics are strange because I know for a fact OHSU only matriculated 68 Oregonians last year for a class of roughly 120. This is based off a presentation I went to by Debbie Melton herself. The stats can also be found in the 2006-2007 MSAR. It should also be pointed out that IF truly 380 Oregonians did apply for the 2006 cycle, this means that in reality only 17.9% of Oregonians were accepted in-state, which is lower than California and third lowest in the 'west' category when you put Utah and Washington into the mix and like 6th or 7th in the nation.

 

[searun]

It is a myth that OHSU is really a semi-private school that receives little state funding and does not have to be accountable to the taxpayers of Oregon. As I was reading the Sunday newspaper and sipping my coffee this morning, I read an article that the Oregon state legislature just allocated 87 million dollars from the general fund to OHSU because of a serious concern about a major shortage of physicians that is expected to occur within the next 10 years. The number of seats in future incoming classes at OHSU will be increased and some of first and second year students will be educated in Eugene at the University of Oregon. I doubt that the state legislators who voted to approve this allocation fully understand that the admissions policies of OHSU actually are contributing to the physician shortage in Oregon rather than alleviating the problem. OHSU forces many qualified Oregonians to seek their medical education elsewhere and is not acting in the best interests of the taxpayers who fund many of its programs....By the way, the new Tram that OHSU touts was funded with millions of dollars of public money but OHSU functions as if it does not have to be accountable to the people who support it. OHSU certainly could fill 90 percent of its class with qualified Oregonians and could fill the remaining 10 percent with OOS students who have ties to the state. If I were a member of the Oregon legislature, this would be a precondition to approving public funding for OHSU in the future. It is sound public policy for the State of Oregon, given the physician shortage that OHSU is doing little to ameliorate.

 

[gsmithers68]

It is a myth that OHSU is really a semi-private school that receives little state funding and does not have to be accountable to the taxpayers of Oregon. As I was reading the Sunday newspaper and sipping my coffee this morning, I read an article that the Oregon state legislature just allocated 87 million dollars from the general fund to OHSU because of a serious concern about a major shortage of physicians that is expected to occur within the next 10 years. The number of seats in future incoming classes at OHSU will be increased and some of first and second year students will be educated in Eugene at the University of Oregon. I doubt that the state legislators who voted to approve this allocation fully understand that the admissions policies of OHSU actually are contributing to the physician shortage in Oregon rather than alleviating the problem. OHSU forces many qualified Oregonians to seek their medical education elsewhere and is not acting in the best interests of the taxpayers who fund many of its programs....By the way, the new Tram that OHSU touts was funded with millions of dollars of public money but OHSU functions as if it does not have to be accountable to the people who support it. OHSU certainly could fill 90 percent of its class with qualified Oregonians and could fill the remaining 10 percent with OOS students who have ties to the state. If I were a member of the Oregon legislature, this would be a precondition to approving public funding for OHSU in the future. It is sound public policy for the State of Oregon, given the physician shortage that OHSU is doing little to ameliorate.

👍 I read this article too and have similar feelings. We need to address this issue as a state because in reality with an average age of 26 at our in-state medical school that means the upper echelon of graduating 21-23 year olds from Oregon are leaving to other areas of the country to get a medical school education. This is a disservice to our state as a whole and something needs to change.

 

[Doctor Bagel]

Oh don't get my started on the tram. 😡 Needless to say Portlanders who don't work for OHSU have lots of bad feelings about the school for lots of reasons, the tram being a big one.

For those of you who are still in Oregon, write to your state representatives. If they're increasing their funding to OHSU, they need to require some accountability from OHSU in regards to admitting Oregon residents.

 

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[Xiphoid]

Ok, I know that everybody on the alternate list is frustrated. First we waited forever to find out that we were in the hold pool. Then we waited until May 11th or May 15th to find out that we were going to wait until June 12th to find out where we are on the ranked list. But I would like to assert that there is a great deal of rationality in this meticulously careful selection process. Lets face it, OHSU has a stated goal of producing primary care physicians. Primary care physicians have the highest rate of burn out. Lots of doctors burn out, and they usually injure patients in the process. Often the question of whether or not you are going to burn out is directly related to the level of maturity that you possess, and your capability of handling significant quantities of stress (as a physician it is always your fault). Further, you are going to represent the school that graduates you as long as you are in practice. Essentially OHSU doesn’t want to be known as the school that produces bad doctors. Since we are all really smart, it follows that their decision will not be as based on academic prowess or MCAT performance as much as how well we convey that we will be mature, personable, and intelligent individuals in our interviews. No one likes going to an arrogant doctor, nor does anyone like working with one. I have worked as a hospital phlebotomist for almost eight years. I have seen many doctors and even critical care nurses burn out. I have experienced as well as hear from patients and nurses horror stories about MD meltdowns. Usually these doctors quit if they are not fired shortly thereafter. So OHSU is careful, that’s good. It will make your curriculum vitae look better when you are trying to match for residency. I know that you are disappointed, angry and frustrated. I’m disappointed too. I worked really hard to get a >3.9 BCMP, >3.9 AO, and a 41 MCAT, and yet I am on the alternate list as well. But what is the worst that can happen? Maybe they’ll say I can’t go this year. I’ll reapply next year. I’m already working on AMCAS 2008. Think about it, what’s one more year when you are making a lifetime commitment?

“In the midst of winter I finally learned that there was in me an invincible summer”- Camus

 

[OrnotMajestic]

It is a myth that OHSU is really a semi-private school that receives little state funding and does not have to be accountable to the taxpayers of Oregon. As I was reading the Sunday newspaper and sipping my coffee this morning, I read an article that the Oregon state legislature just allocated 87 million dollars from the general fund to OHSU because of a serious concern about a major shortage of physicians that is expected to occur within the next 10 years. The number of seats in future incoming classes at OHSU will be increased and some of first and second year students will be educated in Eugene at the University of Oregon. I doubt that the state legislators who voted to approve this allocation fully understand that the admissions policies of OHSU actually are contributing to the physician shortage in Oregon rather than alleviating the problem. OHSU forces many qualified Oregonians to seek their medical education elsewhere and is not acting in the best interests of the taxpayers who fund many of its programs....By the way, the new Tram that OHSU touts was funded with millions of dollars of public money but OHSU functions as if it does not have to be accountable to the people who support it. OHSU certainly could fill 90 percent of its class with qualified Oregonians and could fill the remaining 10 percent with OOS students who have ties to the state. If I were a member of the Oregon legislature, this would be a precondition to approving public funding for OHSU in the future. It is sound public policy for the State of Oregon, given the physician shortage that OHSU is doing little to ameliorate.

As one of those students from Oregon who left to pursue their medical education elsewhere, I feel I can agree with this. The state literally drove me away. I find it amazing that my IN-STATE tuition at OHSU would be nearly what I pay for OOS at my current school. I justified this in my head for a while, since I have a soft spot for my home state. While this may be pure anecdotal on my part, I have done some reading since public finance is an interest of mine. After reading articles on the subject and speaking with several students, this is what I've discovered:
1) Public funds DID go to that tram, while they complained about budget cuts and raised tuition, and increased the number of OOS students compared to instate. They sure don't make it worth your while to stay in-state when they charge you twice what other states charge for in-state tuition.
2) With their increasingly high rankings among med students, they feel the need to "spread out" amongst the states. Basically, if you limit your pool of candidates to the home state, you get what you get. If you spread it out, you can start putting names like "stanford" and "duke" into your matriculation list. Plus, with higher caliber applicants with tougher stats, the better you look. This is similar to residencies who tell candidates "we ranked you #1 so you rank us #1". When in fact, they don't rank you #1, but with more candidates ranking them #1, their stock increases. This happened to several people from my current school, and they had to scramble. This is the price of high caliber buffoonery. Their is sometimes a price to pay for higher rankings.

Once again, I'm not "bitter because i got burned"...not at all. I actually never waited to see if I got in, but pulled my name off the waitlist rather early since I loved my current school. I'm merely made because I loved my home state, and I'm pissed that those that want to STAY in the state are being forced out. And no, this isn't due to "luck". The fact remains that what all the others are saying: For an in-state school, they sure don't act like one. For a school "dedicated to keeping doctors in Oregon", they are sure failing at the task. While I find the satellite campus in Eugene (where I'm from) to be a good idea, they've been "toying" with it for years. It will be years before they actually do anything about it. Personally, I think the best thing that could happen to the state would be if a DO school opened up nearby. Maybe it would light a fire under their tram-building arses.

 

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[OrnotMajestic]

OHSU seems to be more friendly to Oregon residents than the U of W to Washington residents at least on a matriculants per applicant and seats per capita basis (more IS seats to serve the greater population). It would be interesting to see how public funding for education at the respective schools compares.

Washington has twice the number of applicants as Oregon hoping for matriculation anywhere. Both states only have one instate medical school, so therefore the percentage is skewed. The fact still remains that U of W offers more seats to instate, meaning a great percentage of the school seats are offered to instate residents. Looking at "% matriculated in state" doesn't do anyone any good, considering many applicants (usually half) don't matriculate anywhere. With twice the number of applicants vying for the same seats, the % matriculated will indeed be lower, yet UW offers more of its seats to instate. I'm more concerned with the percent of seats offered to instate versus OOS, which is more accurate a percentage.

 

[Doctor Bagel]

OHSU seems to be more friendly to Oregon residents than the U of W to Washington residents at least on a matriculants per applicant and seats per capita basis (more IS seats to serve the greater population). It would be interesting to see how public funding for education at the respective schools compares.

As OrnotMajestic pointed out, not really, but nice use of numbers there. 🙄 It's also pretty convenient how you've decided to compare OHSU against states that don't have a medical school and states that are considered to have the lowest instate matriculation stats in the country. If you compared OHSU with state schools nationwide, you'd see that they're considerably less instate friendly than the norm.

 

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[OrnotMajestic]

Washington has ~1.9X the population of Oregon, so the number of appliants is nearly proportional to the population. However, UW does not offer 1.9X the number of IS seats as OHSU. For the last couple of years anyway, even though there are more total seat for IS'ers at UW, there is less competition at OHSU for an IS seat than at UW...for whatever reason.

This is true, but the math still doesn't work. There isn't 1.9x the seats available, but UW STILL offers a higher IS percentage. Increasing OHSU's IS seats to 90% (like most IS schools vying to keep doctors instate) and I think we'd hear a different tune being sung. If you were to offer 105 seats to IS and 15 to OOS (not unreasonable at all), I don't think there would be any complaining. I've looked, and I can't seem to find a UW thread that complains of this same problem. While compared with raw numbers to UW, it is "easier" to get an OHSU seat while IS, UW has the added bonus of being a state school KNOWN to be toughest on OOS candidates. Not to mention that UW is doing the best they can with what they have...more applicants than OR, but less seats per capita. YET, they still offer what appears to be a routine IS maximum of 85-90% IS. Oregon has LESS applicants yet appears to offer only 70% IS (by bragging estimates of current matriculants), which doesn't seem to match up to the apparent goal of the school.

I remember when I interviewed back in January of 2005, the current crop of students commented that 70% of their class that year was OOS. While they did say that high proportion was a fluke, it sure does say a lot about the school that they could even get away with that.

 

[OrnotMajestic]

Yeah, they both appear less friendly compared to some schools...perhaps that is a function of the number of schools in the state, legislative control, population pressures, financial means, etc...all indepedent of admissions policy. I was comparing regional apples which may face some similar limitations (like maybe, population growth which outstrips pubic funding and space at medical schools).

Personally, I think the PacNW needs more med schools if it wants to keep more doctors. That, and the current schools need to do their best to live up to what they preach, which indeed IS an admissions policy. My current school limits it's OOS to 10% and 10% only, since it is a school dedicated to the Appalachian region. I was one of the lucky 10% (which is 6 of us due to our small class size of 60) who are OOS. Even then, four of the OOS are from North Carolina I really do hope that Eugene campus opens up. An extra 30 seats in the class would do wonders. I just really hope they can focus on this problem.

 

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[OrnotMajestic]

I think things need to be standardized at least by seats per applicant and seats per capita to make comparisons.

This is indeed what I have attempted to do. Washington has approximately 2x the number of applicants as Oregon, so therefore the actual % of those in Washington who matriculate IS will be lower than Oregon. This is a fact of numbers, and not of the reality of the situation. Since both schools only have ONE medical school with approximately the same number of seats available, that becomes the bottom line. To use nerd speak, the "rate limiting factor". 😉 While the actual pool of applicants may change from year to year, the school needs to offer its best availability to IS if indeed that is the vision of the school, since the number of doctors available to practice each year is dependent on how many a school graduates (and a lot of doctors will stay IS if they go to school IS) and NOT on the number of applicants. So what does this all mean, Basil? Simply, OHSU could do MORE in comparison to other state schools hoping to keep their physicians in their home state. Washington already is doing their best with one school by offering a vast majority to IS and working hard to keep OOS mostly out.

This is how it works: UW offers 90% of its seats to IS applicants, yet due to the high number of applicants per year, a lower % get in. While this makes the numbers lower than Oregon, OHSU only offers 70% of its seats to IS. While on paper this makes OHSU look good due to % matriculating instate, in actuality they are shorting the state 20% in comparison to their supposed goal. I know we are splitting hairs here, but the fact remains that if they want to stop the "physician shortage" in Oregon, they need to stop it. Yes, they are working on opening up a satellite campus, but they could do more NOW buy opening up more seats to IS, which should be a first-line treatment for this problem, anyways.

Raw numbers don't work if they aren't applied properly.

 

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[journeygirl]

changing the subject a little bit... does anyone know what the chances of getting in off the alternate list are? How many "alternates" do they have total? I feel so fortunate to have gotten this far in the process...

Also, I've been reading along with the in-state/OOS debate, and although I'm OOS, I would love to practice medicine in OR. Not all people who are OOS are going to go to OHSU to snatch up a degree and run back to their homestate 🙂

 

[OrnotMajestic]

The raw numbers aren't accessing whether or not OHSU could do more, they are simply suggesting whether or not OHSU, in comparison to UW, is providing its state residents with more MD's per capita/per IS applicant despite a lower percentage of IS seats...for whatever reason.

Well, I think at this point we are splitting hairs and making moot points. 🙂 As you said, for whatever reason, they have a lower percentage of IS seats. Like I said before, the only reason I'm so on-fire for this topic is that I really do want to see Oregon provide for its residents. OHSU obviously has a great record for education, and it was one of my top schools. I was just sad to see, what I feel, is them slipping a bit on providing for their home-state. As you said much earlier in this thread, Oregon has a problem with providing for education, for some reason. I'd just love to see this remedied. 🙂 Cheers and congrats on your acceptance!

 

[OrnotMajestic]

changing the subject a little bit... does anyone know what the chances of getting in off the alternate list are? How many "alternates" do they have total? I feel so fortunate to have gotten this far in the process...

Also, I've been reading along with the in-state/OOS debate, and although I'm OOS, I would love to practice medicine in OR. Not all people who are OOS are going to go to OHSU to snatch up a degree and run back to their homestate 🙂

I think I read that the past several years they made it to the late 90's on the alternate list, which is pretty dang good. 🙂

As for the second, I have no doubt that it happens. I'm one of those people that left the state, and will probably practice in the area that I have trained in (Appalachian South). It's just that a majority of the time, people tend to stay in-state if they were trained in-state, which is why schools tend to give preferences. Kudos to you for wanting to stay in OR! They need as many doctors as they can get! 🙂

 

[searun]

As I recall you are from Colorado..I love Colorado, being a fanatical snowboarder and having a brother who attends Colorado College in Colorado Springs. In fact I went to Colorado in February so I could snowboard Breckenridge with my little brother. It was awesome. Denver would be heaven for me... but the last time I checked, the out of state tuition in Colorado was SEVENTY THOUSAND DOLLARS. So, reluctantly, I did not apply as an OOS to Colorado because the public policy of the State of Colorado discourages folks like me, even though my credentials would be very competitive. But I think that Oregon should have the same approach as your home state, but it does not. And as a tax payer, in Oregon, frankly, it is more than a little annoying. Oregon welcomes you but Colorado welcomes me to snowboard Breckenridge and then get the hell out of Dodge.

 

[Doctor Bagel]

The raw numbers aren't accessing whether or not OHSU could do more, they are simply suggesting whether or not OHSU, in comparison to UW, is providing its state residents with more MD's per capita/per IS applicant despite a lower percentage of IS seats...for whatever reason.

The thing is that both schools only have so many seats, and getting more seats might not be possible based on funding issues. However, UW tries to maximize its good to Washington by filling as many as their seats as reasonable with Washington residents. OHSU, on the other hand, has long been known as giving very little preference to instate students and letting lots of oos students fill their seats. It's within OHSU's power to fill 90% of their class with Oregonians and yet they opt not to. That's why Oregonians tend to be a lot more irritated with OHSU than Washingtonians are with UW.

And then of course to add to the further offense, OHSU says they don't accept more Oregon residents because we're not qualified, which is again a total bald-faced lie. Instead of telling Oregonians how we can be more qualified applicants according to OHSU's super subjective admissions process, why not just give instate applicants more preference. It's pretty easy. Year after year, they reject tons of instate applicants who are qualified and would make good doctors.

 

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[searun]

I'm from Oregon, but I did apply to Colorado.

Perhaps I misunderstood a previous post from last winter. Were you an Oregon resident when you applied to OHSU? I thought you were living in Colorado with your husband and children. In any event, my point is the same...most state schools treat their resident applicants much better than OHSU. Washington has the reputation: Don't apply from out of state unless you are URM. Oregon has the reputation of just the opposite...very out of state friendly. That is great except Oregon is about to experience a physician shortage...so perhaps not the most intelligent public policy and the tax payers of Oregon are getting screwed.

 

[Doctor Bagel]

However, my experience is that OHSU's admissions logistics/policies appear to have room to improve.

I can agree with you on this one. Even if they didn't become more instate friendly, it would be nice to see more honesty from the admissions office and, for goodness sakes, more communication. Directing all applicant calls to voicemail and not returning calls isn't too professional, and neither is taking twice as long to finish their admissions cycle as other schools. UW with its more applicants and very similar admissions cycle pattern finished everything over a month ago.

Honestly, though, I think there's some real groupthink going on in the OHSU's admissions office, and they'll never admit that there's room for improvement. That reminds me of my interview there last year where this guy in the admissions office was talking about inaccurate information being spread online about OHSU's tuition -- it was in response to something posted here about the tuition differences between the pre-clinical and clinical years. He just had this tone that seemed to say that whoever posted the wrong information was just an idiot, and he couldn't understand where they got the wrong information. However, the erroneous information that was posted here was a totally rational interpretation of the tuition sheet that they mailed us. It was like he couldn't accept that people were getting the wrong idea about tuition because OHSU wasn't doing a good job with communication. Instead of accepting responsibility for OHSU's poor communication, he decided to blame the poster here.

Oh yeah, the other thrilling communication issue with OHSU is related to their promotional magazine that they gave us during the interview. They had this big article about how they had done so much for the underprivileged in Oregon but that other medical groups were going to have to take over. Again, it seems to fit with the idea that helping Oregon is getting lower and lower priority there.

 

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[searun]

I applied as an Oregon resident. It is interesting that despite the perception that UW is friendly to IS applicants, they apparently aren't educating as many IS MD's or accpeting as many IS applicants in a relative sense as OHSU.

So you applied to Colorado as an out of state applicant? You have alot more bling than me. And you seem pretty sensitive about protecting access by out of state residents at the expense of qualified Oregon residents.

 

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[searun]

Ah...they give you the money up front in loans. No bling required.

Sure, you were willing to pay the cost of out-of -state-tuition in Colorado in the form of loans. I doubt it...do the math. If you are smart enough to be accepted to medical school, you are smart enough to realize that accepting that deal would require a lobotomy to make sense.

 

[searun]

Ok, I know that everybody on the alternate list is frustrated. First we waited forever to find out that we were in the hold pool. Then we waited until May 11th or May 15th to find out that we were going to wait until June 12th to find out where we are on the ranked list. But I would like to assert that there is a great deal of rationality in this meticulously careful selection process. Lets face it, OHSU has a stated goal of producing primary care physicians. Primary care physicians have the highest rate of burn out. Lots of doctors burn out, and they usually injure patients in the process. Often the question of whether or not you are going to burn out is directly related to the level of maturity that you possess, and your capability of handling significant quantities of stress (as a physician it is always your fault). Further, you are going to represent the school that graduates you as long as you are in practice. Essentially OHSU doesn’t want to be known as the school that produces bad doctors. Since we are all really smart, it follows that their decision will not be as based on academic prowess or MCAT performance as much as how well we convey that we will be mature, personable, and intelligent individuals in our interviews. No one likes going to an arrogant doctor, nor does anyone like working with one. I have worked as a hospital phlebotomist for almost eight years. I have seen many doctors and even critical care nurses burn out. I have experienced as well as hear from patients and nurses horror stories about MD meltdowns. Usually these doctors quit if they are not fired shortly thereafter. So OHSU is careful, that’s good. It will make your curriculum vitae look better when you are trying to match for residency. I know that you are disappointed, angry and frustrated. I’m disappointed too. I worked really hard to get a >3.9 BCMP, >3.9 AO, and a 41 MCAT, and yet I am on the alternate list as well. But what is the worst that can happen? Maybe they’ll say I can’t go this year. I’ll reapply next year. I’m already working on AMCAS 2008. Think about it, what’s one more year when you are making a lifetime commitment?

“In the midst of winter I finally learned that there was in me an invincible summer”- Camus

Let me get this straight....You have been a phlebotomist for 8 years, you have a gpa exceeding 3.9 and you have an MCAT score of 41...and you are on the alternate list at OHSU and you are going to reapply to OHSU next year if you are told by OHSU that you won't be admitted this year. Well, you are certainly patient and next year you can apply again and have 9 years experience as a phlebotomist and you will still have the 41 MCAT and the 3.9 gpa. But my question is this: why don't you just accept the full ride to Harvard this year?

 

[gsmithers68]

Ok ok ok. Look. Lets not hijack this thread with a OHSU vs. UW IS applicant rager and let us face the facts that both states are terrible places to have residency when you apply because your IS options are both very competitive and very limited.

Now with that aside. Lets get back to the focus of discussion for all of us alternate listed folks.... have you received the actually letter in the mail? I am still waiting for mine... and do we really have to wait until June 12th to find out our rank on this waitlist? that seems awfully late.

 

[Doctor Bagel]

Ok ok ok. Look. Lets not hijack this thread with a OHSU vs. UW IS applicant rager and let us face the facts that both states are terrible places to have residency when you apply because your IS options are both very competitive and very limited.

Now with that aside. Lets get back to the focus of discussion for all of us alternate listed folks.... have you received the actually letter in the mail? I am still waiting for mine... and do we really have to wait until June 12th to find out our rank on this waitlist? that seems awfully late.

Last year I think people found out their rank almost immediately after finding out they were on the list. Since they already rank you when the admissions committee does their review, they have to know what the number is already. I'd suggest calling again in maybe a week or so to see if they can tell you anything.

 

[searun]

Yes, it is time to move on and stop venting about OHSU...our opinions are not going to change anything. It is what it is. Most of us agree that OHSU provides a great education and Portland is a wonderful town. Good luck to everyone who has been accepted. I am sure that you will have a fine experience during the next four years and you deserve your success. This is my last post on this subject.

 

[han shot first]

Hi Xiphoid...

Ok, I know that everybody on the alternate list is frustrated.

As everyone who interviewed at OHSU should know, the hold pool isn't an "alternate list".

If I understood correctly, the only people who are accepted outright are the superstar outliers for whom admission is a no-brainer: literally, the people who are going to get accepted no matter what. Since it doesn't matter who else interviews, the adcom can let these few people know right away (relatively speaking). For the majority, the final decision regarding our application is contingent upon the discussion of all the other candidates who interviewed before and after us, which is why we don't find out 'til some time after the last interviews have been held.

Calling it an "alternate list" —before May 15th, at any rate — makes the process sound harsher than it really is. The message of an "alternate list" feels like "we'll take you if we absolutely have to, so you might still have a chance". Making the hold pool, on the other hand, says "you aren't one of the slam-dunk outliers, but you are definitely in the running". For me, that's OK... I already know I'm not one of the superstars. My stats are OK: MCAT 34R, BCMP 3.87 (post-bacc, current), cumulative 3.22 (mostly ancient). I felt like I rocked the interview... OTOH, I don't have any of those big medically relevant "life experiences" (e.g., overseas medical aid work, research etc.). So we'll see.

Now, on or about May 15 the hold pool essentially converts to a "wait list", in the sense that if your rank is numerically higher than 120 you are depending on movement in the hold pool in order to make the cut. Even so I wouldn't call it an "alternate list". The school fully expects a lot of initial the top 120 are going to decline. If the last 10 or so people (< 10% of the class) who make it in feel like they were "alternates", I guess that would be justified.

First we waited forever to find out that we were in the hold pool. Then we waited until May 11th or May 15th to find out that we were going to wait until June 12th to find out where we are on the ranked list.

Where did this June 12th story come from? When I interviewed, there was an orientation for the day's interview cohort, where the Dean of Education guy came in and explained the whole process to us. I don't remember anything about June 12th or any other date after May 15.

But I would like to assert that there is a great deal of rationality in this meticulously careful selection process. Lets face it, OHSU has a stated goal of producing primary care physicians. Primary care physicians have the highest rate of burn out. Lots of doctors burn out, and they usually injure patients in the process. Often the question of whether or not you are going to burn out is directly related to the level of maturity that you possess, and your capability of handling significant quantities of stress (as a physician it is always your fault). Further, you are going to represent the school that graduates you as long as you are in practice. Essentially OHSU doesn’t want to be known as the school that produces bad doctors. Since we are all really smart, it follows that their decision will not be as based on academic prowess or MCAT performance as much as how well we convey that we will be mature, personable, and intelligent individuals in our interviews.

I don't really believe that selecting for good future PC doctors comes into play at this level. I think they are really just trying to select for good future doctors. But I do concur that in the final round of the selection process, the candidate's numbers do not matter so much, and the subjective/personal considerations dominate.

This makes perfect sense if you think about it. The process has already accounted for your "stats" in the fact that you made it to interview day; going forward from that point, the academic record should be downweighted in compensation. Depending on whom you talk to, at OHSU the interview contributes 75%-80% of consideration for the final decision.

I know that you are disappointed, angry and frustrated. I’m disappointed too. I worked really hard to get a >3.9 BCMP, >3.9 AO, and a 41 MCAT, and yet I am on the alternate list as well.

You're on the hold list. I'll bet you get in. Hopefully a bunch of us can get off this thread and get onto this one 🙂

 

[gsmithers68]

Hi Xiphoid...

Where did this June 12th story come from? When I interviewed, there was an orientation for the day's interview cohort, where the Dean of Education guy came in and explained the whole process to us. I don't remember anything about June 12th or any other date after May 15.

You were able to call on May 11 to find out the status of your application. You should be receiving your letter in the mail shortly. The committee has made final decisions on the hold pool rejecting some, accepting some, and waitlisting a bunch. Reference the other posts on page 5.

 

[han shot first]

You were able to call on May 11 to find out the status of your application. You should be receiving your letter in the mail shortly.

You got that right... I live in the PDX Metro area, and the mailmain should come through my neighborhood within the next two hours...

The committee has made final decisions on the hold pool rejecting some, accepting some, and waitlisting a bunch.

Yep, got that... 🙂 but like the other poster, I have been under the impression that the rankings are sent out in this letter. I was also left with the distinct understanding (again, from interview day) that the admission priority rankings that determined the outcome of this round are (a) the last action of the adcom (i.e. there is no subsequent round of activity) and (b) final (which is implied by (a)). So I didn't think there was any other "ranking the alternate list" business that comes after; I thought that it was purely a mechanistic process driven by candidate declines.

Reference the other posts on page 5.

Ah... I see. Well, it sounds like you have it on good authority.

Anyway — best of luck to you! 🙂

 

[Xiphoid]

I called the admissions office on Friday and they told me that I was on the alternate list and that the rankings on the alternate list would be provided by June 12th.

 

[Doctor Bagel]

Also, the hold list doesn't turn into an alternate list, really, because people on the hold list can be accepted, waitlisted (essentially an alternate list) or rejected once the final decisions are made in May. It's true that being put on hold initially isn't the same as being put on an alternate list or a waitlist.

 

[han shot first]

Also, the hold list doesn't turn into an alternate list, really, because people on the hold list can be accepted, waitlisted (essentially an alternate list) or rejected once the final decisions are made in May.

Right... like you said, on May 15:

• 
  some people are accepted from the hold pool; these people are thenceforth no longer in the hold pool;

• 
  some people are rejected from the hold pool; these people are also no longer in the hold pool;

• 
  the hold pool is still a ranked list, all who are left (not accepted, not rejected) are waiting.

...why is why I said that on May 15 the hold pool becomes a de facto waitlist.

Anyway, I'm just spitballin' here because I am finding it hard to concentrate on work this morning, for some reason... 🙂

 

[Doctor Bagel]

Right... like you said, on May 15:

• 
  some people are accepted from the hold pool; these people are thenceforth no longer in the hold pool;

• 
  some people are rejected from the hold pool; these people are also no longer in the hold pool;

• 
  the hold pool is still a ranked list, all who are left (not accepted, not rejected) are waiting.

...why is why I said that on May 15 the hold pool becomes a de facto waitlist.

Anyway, I'm just spitballin' here because I am finding it hard to concentrate on work this morning, for some reason... 🙂

Still disagree with your mental categorizing. If the hold pool turned into a de facto waitlist, I would think it would have to include everyone in the waitlist. Instead, the hold pool turns into 3 categories, only one part of which turns into a waitlist. To me, it seems more like they change everyone's categorizations, so no thing turns into anything else. I don't know if my view is more or less benign than yours. 🙂

 

[melissainsd]

I am so sick of the OHSU bashing. I understand it from people that are in the midst of the process, but Doctor Bagel- MOVE ON! You have more posts on this thread than anyone. Seriously, accept it and get on with your life. You have nothing helpful to add.