Ohsu '07

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I think that's kind of been the trend this year. I don't think I've interviewed at a school that hasn't said that they've had way more applications/interviews than normal this year. And my "hold" letter did specifically say that they interviewed 525 applicants. I don't know if that's more than usual because I don't know what their past numbers have been, but it makes sense based on what everyone has been saying about this years applicant pool.
 
I wasn't aware of the extended interview season, but most of the students and both of my interviewers commented on the particularly large number of applicants on the day I interviewed--April 3rd. I was also under the impression decisions were not going to be going out til May 15th.
 
I'm tired of waiting! It's been 6 months since my interview and these next 2 weeks of waiting are going to be painfull. I just want to know where I stand!:meanie:
 
Hkoser said:
I'm tired of waiting! It's been 6 months since my interview and these next 2 weeks of waiting are going to be painfull. I just want to know where I stand!:meanie:
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I hear ya!
 
Anyone hear anything recently? According to a thread from last years admissions cycle, some people started to hear back this week!
 
pooley55 said:
Anyone hear anything recently? According to a thread from last years admissions cycle, some people started to hear back this week!
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I am an Oregonian and it is one-day mail to my house from Portland so I'll post ASAP if I get anything soon.
 
pooley55 said:
Anyone hear anything recently? According to a thread from last years admissions cycle, some people started to hear back this week!
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Just received my acceptance letter today! Dated May 3, interviewed early April. Totally excited but poses a tough decision especially with the 15th coming up next week.

Good luck to those still waiting!! Hang in there 🙂
 
I called Admissions today and they told me that all decisions will be made this thursday and sent out Friday. Hope that helps everyone
 
Thanks Quick. After reading last years thread it seems like only bad news went out this week so I hope I dont get anything in the mail until next week. Good luck everyone!
 
Damn I got rejected post-secondary back in January...with my 3.5ish and 25 mcat (soon to be 35 🙂, I dont think they liked me
 
coral said:
Just received my acceptance letter today! Dated May 3, interviewed early April. Totally excited but poses a tough decision especially with the 15th coming up next week.

Good luck to those still waiting!! Hang in there 🙂
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Congrats! What other schools are you deciding between?
 
coral said:
Just received my acceptance letter today! Dated May 3, interviewed early April. Totally excited but poses a tough decision especially with the 15th coming up next week.

Good luck to those still waiting!! Hang in there 🙂
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yay congrats!!!!! good luck everyone who is still waiting in the hold category....i can't wait to use the ohsu website to check the waitlist movement....every 15 minutes!!!!!:laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :luck: :luck: :luck:
 
quick1235 said:
I called Admissions today and they told me that all decisions will be made this thursday and sent out Friday. Hope that helps everyone
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Ok now I'm nervous! Good luck everyone...
 
I know this has already been said but...I emailed Debbie Milton and she said that the committe will meet for the last time today and all acceptances, alternate notifications, and "refusals", will be mailed tomorrow. I also asked when it would be possible to call and find out our status and she said maybe tomorrow, but if not then if we dont get anything by Monday then we can call for sure then. This is going to be a loooooooooooong weekend!!!!!!
 
Dooms day approaches. Time to go purchase a fifth of patron and a fifth of HRD vodka. Lets hope for the best! :luck: :luck:
 
Does anyone plan on calling tomorrow afternoon to try and find out their final decision? I dont know if I will have enough guts to actually do it, but if anyone does call please let us know whether or not they told you anything! I cant believe that by sometime next week I wil FINALLY know where I will be in August!!!! Once again good luck everyone!
 
pooley55 said:
Does anyone plan on calling tomorrow afternoon to try and find out their final decision? I dont know if I will have enough guts to actually do it, but if anyone does call please let us know whether or not they told you anything! I cant believe that by sometime next week I wil FINALLY know where I will be in August!!!! Once again good luck everyone!
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if anyone does have any luck calling in tomorrow, please post up!
 
I understand the admission process but need a little clarification on the rejection, i.e. "refusal", category. i interviewed in Jan. and I received a letter stating that I was placed in the hold-pool category. So I guess I'm wondering why a rejection isn't issued immediately following. Do the sent out refusals after a certain ranked number?
 
Has anyone attempted to call to find out about their status yet? Please let us know if it works!
 
sorchai said:
I understand the admission process but need a little clarification on the rejection, i.e. "refusal", category. i interviewed in Jan. and I received a letter stating that I was placed in the hold-pool category. So I guess I'm wondering why a rejection isn't issued immediately following. Do the sent out refusals after a certain ranked number?
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Last year, I got a hold letter and then a rejection letter in May. Honestly, I don't think they reject anyone (or very, very few people) post interview. They just assign you a number and place you in the hold pool. Then if your number is below a certain cutoff after they get through all the files, they'll reject you. Being rejected earlier would actually have been nicer, imo, but they don't have the most considerate admissions scheme so whatever.

Good luck to everyone who's waiting! As for getting answers on the phone, it depends on who you get a hold of. I sent an email asking for a status update and got a cowardly email back from that Debbie person telling me to be patient. Then I called and the person I spoke to gave me the news. They're paid to talk to you so call today if you can't wait.
 
They won't answer their phone
 
I called. Left a message and then got a call back.

Found out I'm on the alternate list which they're going to be ranking in early June. Talk about the lame 🙁

Best of luck to everyone else :luck:
 
I just called and they just told me that I was rejected and I could find out more information in the first week of June on what I could improve. Well this was a long process, I am a 21 year old Oregon resident with a bunch of EC and volunteer work with rural healthcare. I even went abroad to work with the underserved to maybe get a leg up on other applicants. I guess they wanted more, just not sure. It could have been that I was only a 3.7 overall and 3.7 BCPM with a 31.

All hope is not lost I guess I will be attending SLU as of right now since it seems to be the best compared to NYMC and Drexel.

Goodluck to you all especially the ones on the waitlist I hear they have had movement up to 98 last two years.
 
quick1235 said:
I just called and they just told me that I was rejected and I could find out more information in the first week of June on what I could improve. Well this was a long process, I am a 21 year old Oregon resident with a bunch of EC and volunteer work with rural healthcare. I even went abroad to work with the underserved to maybe get a leg up on other applicants. I guess they wanted more, just not sure. It could have been that I was only a 3.7 overall and 3.7 BCPM with a 31.

All hope is not lost I guess I will be attending SLU as of right now since it seems to be the best compared to NYMC and Drexel.

Goodluck to you all especially the ones on the waitlist I hear they have had movement up to 98 last two years.
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👎 Same stats and everything as me. You and I are apparently on their **** list. They look for strange things in applicants so who the hell knows. Best of luck with SLU

:beat: (the donkey is ms. Debbie whats her face who comes to Oregon campuses to talk to undergrads every year to get our hopes up and then tells us to screw off when we apply. time to smack a *****. eat stick hoe)
 
I really had a bad experience at the old OHSU interview back in december. I'm with you going to SLU so far, and I don't know if I'll go even if OHSU does take me. I had worse numbers than you too, so who knows what factors come into play forthem.
 
This is where OHSU sucks. They say that they don't admit as many Oregonian applicants as they'd like because there aren't enough qualified Oregon applicants which is total bs. Year after year, they reject lots of high quality Oregon applicants. It's just insulting when they say it's about you, when it's really about their arbitrary selection process.

Anyway, sorry for those who got rejected. It sounds like you got in somewhere else, so that's great -- you've got some closure now. 🙂 For those of you on the waitlist, there's tons of waitlist movement so it's still a good place to be (well, unless you wanted the closure). I'm sorry you have to wait so long for the ranking, which also doesn't make sense because you're already ranked.
 
Did you guys called the admissions phone number? I tried that number and the recorded message basically said unless the matter is "urgent," don't phone us.
 
If you have the paper they gave you from interview day you can call that number on there. There is one for Debbie and someone else.
 
quick1235 said:
If you have the paper they gave you from interview day you can call that number on there. There is one for Debbie and someone else.
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i first called debbie's number--answering machine says she'll be back on may 15.

then i called admissions and the nice lady said that i'm on the alternate list. more waiting 'til early june!

sorry to hear about the rejections. i wish you all the best in your future endeavors! :luck: :luck: :luck: :luck:
 
Alternate list 🙁
 
I called, found out Im rejected 🙁 . Those of you on the waitlist shouldnt be too sad, they got to number 99 last year.

Good luck everyone
 
As an Oregon resident with multiple acceptances to some very good schools, I agree that OHSU has the worst admissions process in the country. It really is pathetic. Apparently, I will find out tomorrow or Monday whether or not I have been accepted. It does not matter to me. I lost interest long ago and have made other more exciting plans. But good job OHSU, you will beat the May 15 deadline by one day. If Oregon wants to do something about the looming doctor shortage in Oregon, start by trashing the OHSU admissions department.
 
hey all
sorry for those of you who did not get in and good luck for those of you on the wait list and congratz to those of you who will join us next year.

As a current ohsu student I just wanted to offer some advice which I know is hard to take right now but it is true:

All of medical school is hard. The admission process sucks everywhere because there just aren't enough spots in the country for the number of deserving applicants. I know that for everyone of us there are a bunch of others who are deserving. OHSU recognizes this and is working really hard to to increase class size. We want to train more physicians.

I realize that some of you are facing what seems like the end of the road for a career in medicine and that seems impossible and leaves you really angry. I have faced this same wall twice. But having made it to the other side of both of these walls I feel I am a stronger person and will be a better doctor for it. If medicine is your passion: keep going. Don’t let a little wall stop you. Even if the wall seems like the Great Wall of China keep going! I have a friend who was determined to be a doctor. After her first two rejections she earned a masters and then applied two more times, yep 2 +2= four times. She is about to take the boards and become a third year next month. If she can do it you can. So complain for a while, cry, vent, scream, yell, whatever you need to do. Then regain composure and decide if this is really what you want to do with your life. If it isn’t I applaud you and the wall helped you find your way in the maze. If it is, dust yourself off and figure out what you need to do and keep doing it, no matter what. Also realize that there will be many bigger walls in your future even if you get in next year.
 
Actually, it seems like the good news is that most of the rejectees have gotten in elsewhere, which further shows how screwed up the OHSU admissions process is, so they don't have to rally ahead through another admissions cycle. They can just go elsewhere. OHSU and Oregon's loss.

And for the rejectees, supposedly OHSU isn't that great about giving you suggestions to improve your application. They'll tell you stuff, but they might very well reject you again after you do everything they tell you. That happened to one of the applicants in last year's admission cycle. The good news was that he got accepted into a better school, but OHSU still rejected him. They have about the most arbitrary admissions process of any school, so if you reapply, you need to apply to lots of places. You might win the lottery with OHSU, or you might not. Unfortunately, it seems to be more a matter of luck than merit.
 
So can we call to find out? Or should we just wait for something in the mail? I remember like 3 weeks ago I received a sheet from them asking if I wanted to accept a spot o the deferred list. They sent this letter a couple days ago.

"As the May 15 deadline approaches for accepted applicants to designate one medical school, our entering class will begin to take shape. Once our class size drops below 210 new students, we will contact applicants from our deferred list. It is possible to gain acceptance in the coming months. The time frame in which your decision could change is variable. Please be assured that your application will continue to receive active and on-going consideration.

The deferred list is not ranked but is grouped based on your interview day Admissions Committee vote. For this reason as well as the constantly changing list, we are not able to let you know your "number" on the deferred list. We will be able to give you an estimate of your general location on this list (upper half, upper quartile, etc.) in June or early July.

We know this is a difficult position to be in, but we ask that you be patient with our process. We will be in contact with you if your application status changes. Be sure to keep our office updated with your most current telephone number(s) and e-mail address.

Attached are news articles highlighting some of the activities occurring in the College and the Medical Center that we think you will find interesting.
"

Anyone have any input on the significance?
 
Spathi said:
So can we call to find out? Or should we just wait for something in the mail? I remember like 3 weeks ago I received a sheet from them asking if I wanted to accept a spot o the deferred list. They sent this letter a couple days ago.

"As the May 15 deadline approaches for accepted applicants to designate one medical school, our entering class will begin to take shape. Once our class size drops below 210 new students, we will contact applicants from our deferred list. It is possible to gain acceptance in the coming months. The time frame in which your decision could change is variable. Please be assured that your application will continue to receive active and on-going consideration.

The deferred list is not ranked but is grouped based on your interview day Admissions Committee vote. For this reason as well as the constantly changing list, we are not able to let you know your “number” on the deferred list. We will be able to give you an estimate of your general location on this list (upper half, upper quartile, etc.) in June or early July.

We know this is a difficult position to be in, but we ask that you be patient with our process. We will be in contact with you if your application status changes. Be sure to keep our office updated with your most current telephone number(s) and e-mail address.

Attached are news articles highlighting some of the activities occurring in the College and the Medical Center that we think you will find interesting.
"

Anyone have any input on the significance?
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😕 Is this different than the actual waitlist? I was told I was on the 'alternate' list... This letter looks like you are on a different list? I am sooo confused now. I should be getting my stupid letter signed by Debbie-the-two-timing-admissions-chair today. I'll see if it says the same.
 
I was also sent a letter asking if I wanted to be on some list- i thought it was called the alternate list- but that was like a month ago I can't really remember what it said. This last email came on May 9th.
 
Spathi said:
I was also sent a letter asking if I wanted to be on some list- i thought it was called the alternate list- but that was like a month ago I can't really remember what it said. This last email came on May 9th.
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you got this via e-mail? Huh, interesting. I didn't know OHSU knew how to use e-mail :laugh:

I'm sorry but I have no insight into what this means in terms of it is any different than the letter I'll receive in the mail today. I'll keep you posted if mine reads any different.
 
I am an OOS applicant so perhaps that changes things. I also interviewed there in December so maybe that matters? I really loved that school though so if I get in, I imagine I'll end up there.
 
I called admissions yesterday asking for a final decision on my app. It sounded like is was an office vacation for most of the day but i finally got through to a receptionist. She said at lightning speed "OHSU regrets to inform you that we will be unable to offer you a place in this years incoming class if you would like to call back to learn how to improve your app etc." I guess she was scared I would break down on her or something. I already received an acceptance at a great school in California and just wanted some closure with OHSU after 10 months of waiting. I wouldn't have gone to OHSU even if i got in but it is a bit lousy that my own state school couldn't present itself more respectably. I'm not sour about it, really it made my decision making process very easy, but with a 35 MCAT and 3.77GPA plus residency and lots of EC activities etc. I don't know what they wanted. Oh well, they have serious issues to work out. Maybe its just age discrimination, they don't want bright 21-22 year olds. Good luck to all my fellow rejectees, I'm sure everything will work out for the best!
 
Spathi said:
I was also sent a letter asking if I wanted to be on some list- i thought it was called the alternate list- but that was like a month ago I can't really remember what it said. This last email came on May 9th.
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Quick question -- are you sure you're talking about OHSU. OHSU threads occasionally get posters thinking we're talking about OSU (Ohio State). This thread is for the Oregon school. They're not big on email and OHSU's class is nowhere near 210, so you might maybe be in the wrong thread. 😱
 
I can't believe OR residents with 30+ MCATs are being rejected! Thats absurd! These are qualified applicants who are being swept up by other schools and are more likely to practice other places. I didn't have the balls to call on Fri but I'm not feeling too confident about even making the alternate list. Question... someone said they're waiting to fill 210 new spots before the waitlist moves. I thought the class was 120. Did I miss something?😡
 
Hkoser said:
I can't believe OR residents with 30+ MCATs are being rejected! Thats absurd! These are qualified applicants who are being swept up by other schools and are more likely to practice other places. I didn't have the balls to call on Fri but I'm not feeling too confident about even making the alternate list. Question... someone said they're waiting to fill 210 new spots before the waitlist moves. I thought the class was 120. Did I miss something?😡
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I really think that person is talking about the wrong school. I know OHSU is expanding their class size and all but not by that much. 🙂 OHSU has a long history of rejecting qualified Oregonians -- just read the previous threads about it.
 
okay....so I've been reading this post for a while now. And trying to let the anti-OHSUers do their thing without letting it provoke a response out of me. But I just can't hold it in any longer!!!

I'm a first year here at OHSU...and truly love this program. Indeed, I am an Oregon resident...as is 70% of my class this year. Yes, 70%. So all those comments about how OHSU doesn't take in-state residents...not so valid anymore.

And yes, the application process sucks. Everywhere. Not just OHSU. I applied to over 20 programs, only interviewed at 4 MD schools, and got into 2. Two. All schools are looking for different things...even if you are 30+ on the MCAT, with a super GPA, & have been working in healthcare for many years...there are no guarantees in this process. All schools reject qualified applicants every single year.

With that said, OHSU has proven to be the perfect place for me. Yes, there have been definite ups and downs these past 9 months...but that was expected. Medical school has been overwhelming and completely consuming...but this is what I signed up for. I love that I only have to technically study for "one" test at a time. I love that we get hands-on clinical experience this year. I love that OHSU attendings and residents get excited when med students show interest in their specialty...and invite/welcome students into the OR. I love that OHSU does offer scholarships once you get here. I love that there are so many exciting organizations, student groups, and electives offered...there are so many opportunities to get involved. I love that my class, with all of our crazy life experiences and stories, DOES interact and likes to have fun outside of class. There is always someone willing to drop the books for happy hours, concerts, or runs on the waterfront.

This place is amazing and I am so happy I am here. It's been hard and exhausting. But medicine is going to be my life...and it's going to be hard and exhausting. So if you are considering OHSU...don't let all the nay-sayers deter you. It's such a personal decision. All I can say is that OHSU really is a great school in an wonderful city!!!
 
kathyt009 said:
okay....so I've been reading this post for a while now. And trying to let the anti-OHSUers do their thing without letting it provoke a response out of me. But I just can't hold it in any longer!!!

I'm a first year here at OHSU...and truly love this program. Indeed, I am an Oregon resident...as is 70% of my class this year. Yes, 70%. So all those comments about how OHSU doesn't take in-state residents...not so valid anymore.

And yes, the application process sucks. Everywhere. Not just OHSU. I applied to over 20 programs, only interviewed at 4 MD schools, and got into 2. Two. All schools are looking for different things...even if you are 30+ on the MCAT, with a super GPA, & have been working in healthcare for many years...there are no guarantees in this process. All schools reject qualified applicants every single year.

With that said, OHSU has proven to be the perfect place for me. Yes, there have been definite ups and downs these past 9 months...but that was expected. Medical school has been overwhelming and completely consuming...but this is what I signed up for. I love that I only have to technically study for "one" test at a time. I love that we get hands-on clinical experience this year. I love that OHSU attendings and residents get excited when med students show interest in their specialty...and invite/welcome students into the OR. I love that OHSU does offer scholarships once you get here. I love that there are so many exciting organizations, student groups, and electives offered...there are so many opportunities to get involved. I love that my class, with all of our crazy life experiences and stories, DOES interact and likes to have fun outside of class. There is always someone willing to drop the books for happy hours, concerts, or runs on the waterfront.

This place is amazing and I am so happy I am here. It's been hard and exhausting. But medicine is going to be my life...and it's going to be hard and exhausting. So if you are considering OHSU...don't let all the nay-sayers deter you. It's such a personal decision. All I can say is that OHSU really is a great school in an wonderful city!!!
Click to expand...

I don't think anyone is bashing OHSU as an institution. I am just not a fan of this pretense to 'serve the Oregon community' but then have 68 seats in a class of 120 as the only accredited medical school in our state. I'm sorry but OSU and UO together send roughly 15 kids each year a piece to medical schools around the country... that doesn't even count people who have taken time off to do programs like Teach For America, etc. To me, this is ridiculous to think that my only state school which is so concerned about us undergrads sends their head of admissions to our school every year to preach to us about their admission process and then turns around and accepts < 30% of the Oregon applicants that apply every year. Sure, the school is 70% Oregon residents. But lets face it. 300 apply for 68 spots. Even if they give 128 accpetances that is still less 50% admittance rates. I have a bone to pick with OHSU for their admissions process. Not their school. I think the school is great. Maybe that is why I'm so bitter.
 
I don't think anybody has been dissing OHSU or Portland (a city which I love and consider home, btw). I think it's just clear that there's something not quite right with OHSU's admissions process. They reject tons and tons of qualified Oregonian residents year after year and still accept a high number of oos students. For a state school, it's a broken process. It's also a deceptive process when you're telling Oregonians that they're not getting in because they're not qualified, which is complete and total bs.

If OHSU's primary concern is to produce doctors for Oregon, which should be the primary concern for any state school, they do need to rework their admissions process. If they want to be a private school, that's cool but I'm bugged that as an Oregon taxpayer I had to pay for that.
 
kathyt009 said:
okay....so I've been reading this post for a while now. And trying to let the anti-OHSUers do their thing without letting it provoke a response out of me. But I just can't hold it in any longer!!!

I'm a first year here at OHSU...and truly love this program. Indeed, I am an Oregon resident...as is 70% of my class this year. Yes, 70%. So all those comments about how OHSU doesn't take in-state residents...not so valid anymore.

And yes, the application process sucks. Everywhere. Not just OHSU. I applied to over 20 programs, only interviewed at 4 MD schools, and got into 2. Two. All schools are looking for different things...even if you are 30+ on the MCAT, with a super GPA, & have been working in healthcare for many years...there are no guarantees in this process. All schools reject qualified applicants every single year.
Click to expand...


This statistic of 70% Oregonians is the most misleading statistic that the school has regarding admissions. According to US NEWS 86 spots were offered to Oregonians and 68 of those offered positions matriculated. On the other hand, there was well over 100 acceptances offered to out of state applicants of which only 35 matriculated (Not exact numbers but these are fairly close). So what these statistics say to me is that a large amount of Oregonians are not accepted out right but are only offered positions in the class AFTER out of staters decline OHSU's offers. Potentially, had the out of staters taken the spots offered to them, Oregonians would easily be in the minority.

This practice is highly inconsistent with what they preach. I think it is dishonest, not very smart, and is one of the reasons that I will be NOT attending OHSU.
 
kathyt009 said:
okay....so I've been reading this post for a while now. And trying to let the anti-OHSUers do their thing without letting it provoke a response out of me. But I just can't hold it in any longer!!!

I'm a first year here at OHSU...and truly love this program. Indeed, I am an Oregon resident...as is 70% of my class this year. Yes, 70%. So all those comments about how OHSU doesn't take in-state residents...not so valid anymore.

And yes, the application process sucks. Everywhere. Not just OHSU. I applied to over 20 programs, only interviewed at 4 MD schools, and got into 2. Two. All schools are looking for different things...even if you are 30+ on the MCAT, with a super GPA, & have been working in healthcare for many years...there are no guarantees in this process. All schools reject qualified applicants every single year.

With that said, OHSU has proven to be the perfect place for me. Yes, there have been definite ups and downs these past 9 months...but that was expected. Medical school has been overwhelming and completely consuming...but this is what I signed up for. I love that I only have to technically study for "one" test at a time. I love that we get hands-on clinical experience this year. I love that OHSU attendings and residents get excited when med students show interest in their specialty...and invite/welcome students into the OR. I love that OHSU does offer scholarships once you get here. I love that there are so many exciting organizations, student groups, and electives offered...there are so many opportunities to get involved. I love that my class, with all of our crazy life experiences and stories, DOES interact and likes to have fun outside of class. There is always someone willing to drop the books for happy hours, concerts, or runs on the waterfront.

This place is amazing and I am so happy I am here. It's been hard and exhausting. But medicine is going to be my life...and it's going to be hard and exhausting. So if you are considering OHSU...don't let all the nay-sayers deter you. It's such a personal decision. All I can say is that OHSU really is a great school in an wonderful city!!!
Click to expand...

I don't think anyone here is bashing OHSU, just pointing out the problems. As a former Oregon resident AND graduate of Oregon State University, I can tell you the school admission process is a bit broken. I applied several years ago, and my experience on the campus was not a positive one. I loved the campus, and I think Portland is one of the best cities in the world to live, but post-interview I removed my application due to the bad taste in my mouth. Funny, how that day that I interviewed with about 15 other people, I was one of two in-state residents interviewing. Now, call it a fluke of the day, but at that time OHSU was accepting over 60% OOS. Sure, 70% may be in-state, but for a state school, that is ridiculous. Most state-schools, especially ones that constantly brag about "raising local doctors", usually limit OOS to 10%. This is especially insulting when it is the ONLY in-state medical institution. Not to mention the tuition for IN-STATE is nearly as much as I pay now being OOS at my current medical school program.

As you said, though, it is the perfect place for YOU. I couldn't agree more, as I'm beyond happy with my decision to go to my current school. I fit in here, and I think I would have been unhappy if I had stayed and gone to OHSU. My point that I still make (which makes me sound bitter), is that I'm tired of Oregon bitching and complaining about the pain in their foot, when they are holding the smoking gun that shot it. If they are a state school, they need to be a state-school, and make in-state the #1 priority. 30% OOS is still ridiculous for a school whose aim and philosophy (from what they told us) to raise local doctors.
 
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