OK I seriously wanted to know this....

[indo]

Jesus isn't lost, and he never will be. I predict one day, you, (yes you, the amazing Guy LaDouche) will encounter his presence. When that happens, you will understand.

guy ladouche.....isn't he a character on Most Extreme Challenge?

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[TexasSnow]

guy ladouche.....isn't he a character on Most Extreme Challenge?

 

[freaker]

GuyLaroche,

I think you have a lot to learn about the field of medicine.

Are you aware that the Catholic Church treats 25% of the world’s AIDS patients? Further, are you aware that charitability is directly correlated with religiosity? The United States is far and away the most charitable country in the Western world. American citizens donate per capita and relative to income 6 times more than the Brits, and it gets even uglier if we begin comparing the US to continental Europe. 7 out of 8 charity dollars that are given in this country are given by those who give to religious charities, and those who give to religious charities are also more generous to secular charities than are those who only give to secular charities. The most charitable states in this country include Mississippi (also the poorest state), Tennessee, Alabama, Utah, and North Dakota.

So there is, case in point, how religion will NEVER be removed from medicine, and there is a reason why you see hospitals all across this country with religious names—because religion built those hospitals. Thousands of doctors give their times to religious charities every year, embark across the planet to treat the suffering. And to a patient in South America or Africa, hearing your callous words that faith plays no part in healing would be complete and utter nonsense.

On Duke University

Some interesting quotations from Duke Magaine (January/February 2005):

From an article about Duke medical students journeying to Tanzania:

“Before we left, Chu gave him Septra for his diarrhea. “Take one a day, three days a week,” she told him. Lightness Kaale, a nurse practitioner at KIWAKKUKU, translated. And then we prayed. “It’s amazing how much simply praying with them helps,” said Chu. “You leave, and they’re smiling.

Another article in the same magazine talks about how a Catholic priest led the fight to bring democracy to Haiti. Read up on Aristide, about the coup d’etat that was led against him. About the leaders of this coup who claimed they brought democracy to Haiti. The rest of the article details the life of a now-Duke theology student who spoke up against those who claimed to bring democracy, about how he was sought to be arrested and executed by those who led the coup. Religion is not something minor to such people. It represents freedom and equality—the very things that through faith gave rise to this country.

Presently, members of the Duke Theology Department are assisting the Sudanese to maintain their own seminaries, and the future leaders will likely come from these seminaries to lead the the oppressed Christians in the south.

Also at Duke, the Institute on Care at the End of Life was recently formed as a collaboration between the medical and the divinity school, and it is being headed by the former head of pain and pallitative care Memorial Sloan-Kettering Cancer Center in New York and a member of the Duke Divinity School.
----

I just think it’s amazing that such a small minority can make such a loud noise, considering that somewhere between 85-90% of our nation is composed of Christians.


But really, if you want to quote Thomas Jefferson:

"No nation has ever existed or been governed without religion. Nor can be. The Christian religion is the best religion that has been given to man and I, as Chief Magistrate of this nation, am bound to give it the sanction of my example."

You're aware that the US Capital Dome was used for Christian worship during Jefferson's presidency, aren't you? (Makes you wonder where these people invented this so-called "separation of church and state.") It was the largest church in the nation by 1867 and had been attended by numerous presidents. Or that the Bible was used in American public schools while Jefferson was President and that he sanctioned its use while secretary of education?

But really, the point is that while we could go about swapping quotations all day, I think you substantially underestimate the importance of the role of belief in billions of people around the world, and that you would have the arrogance to tell them that--for instance, the only time of reference was now and that a man was crucified and resurrected to be seen by hundreds three days later meant nothing---is truly off-putting.

 

[Pembleton]

GuyLaroche,

I think you have a lot to learn about the field of medicine.

Are you aware that the Catholic Church treats 25% of the world’s AIDS patients? Further, are you aware that charitability is directly correlated with religiosity? The United States is far and away the most charitable country in the Western world. American citizens donate per capita and relative to income 6 times more than the Brits, and it gets even uglier if we begin comparing the US to continental Europe. 7 out of 8 charity dollars that are given in this country are given by those who give to religious charities, and those who give to religious charities are also more generous to secular charities than are those who only give to secular charities. The most charitable states in this country include Mississippi (also the poorest state), Tennessee, Alabama, Utah, and North Dakota.

So there is, case in point, how religion will NEVER be removed from medicine, and there is a reason why you see hospitals all across this country with religious names—because religion built those hospitals. Thousands of doctors give their times to religious charities every year, embark across the planet to treat the suffering. And to a patient in South America or Africa, hearing your callous words that faith plays no part in healing would be complete and utter nonsense.

On Duke University

Some interesting quotations from Duke Magaine (January/February 2005):

From an article about Duke medical students journeying to Tanzania:

“Before we left, Chu gave him Septra for his diarrhea. “Take one a day, three days a week,” she told him. Lightness Kaale, a nurse practitioner at KIWAKKUKU, translated. And then we prayed. “It’s amazing how much simply praying with them helps,” said Chu. “You leave, and they’re smiling.

Another article in the same magazine talks about how a Catholic priest led the fight to bring democracy to Haiti. Read up on Aristide, about the coup d’etat that was led against him. About the leaders of this coup who claimed they brought democracy to Haiti. The rest of the article details the life of a now-Duke theology student who spoke up against those who claimed to bring democracy, about how he was sought to be arrested and executed by those who led the coup. Religion is not something minor to such people. It represents freedom and equality—the very things that through faith gave rise to this country.

Presently, members of the Duke Theology Department are assisting the Sudanese to maintain their own seminaries, and the future leaders will likely come from these seminaries to lead the the oppressed Christians in the south.

Also at Duke, the Institute on Care at the End of Life was recently formed as a collaboration between the theology and the divinity school, and it is being headed by the former head of pain and pallitative care Memorial Sloan-Kettering Cancer Center in New York and a member of the Duke Divinity School.

I just think it’s amazing that such a small minority can make such a loud noise, considering that somewhere between 85-90% of our nation is composed of Christians.


But really, if you want to quote Thomas Jefferson:

"No nation has ever existed or been governed without religion. Nor can be. The Christian religion is the best religion that has been given to man and I, as Chief Magistrate of this nation, am bound to give it the sanction of my example."

You're aware that the US Capital Dome was used for Christian worship during Jefferson's presidency, aren't you? (Makes you wonder where these people invented this so-called "separation of church and state.") Or that the Bible was used in American public schools while Jefferson was President and that he sanctioned its use while secretary of education?

But really, the point is that while we could go about swapping quotations all day, I think you substantially underestimate the importance of the role of belief in billions of people around the world, and that you would have the arrogance to tell them that--for instance, the only time of reference was now and that a man was crucified and resurrected to be seen by hundreds three days later meant nothing---is truly off-putting.

Nicely done.

 

[stinkycheese]

I was not looking to go to a Christian school per se; I actually enjoy diversity. I also know most of the schools I applied to have Christian organizations and Iknow I would find a well grounded church. i was trying to ascertain acceptance by those who may not believe in the same things as i do. The intolerance of Christians on sdn made me more aware how they could easily be ostracized in med school.

No one is intolerant of Christians. Hell, the person I am closest to in the world is a Christian. And she's a good Christian -- the kind who uses her faith to guide her to become a better person. the kind of Christian who is kind to everyone and respects their beliefs. The kind of Christian who is comfortable enough with her own faith that she does not try to spout gospel all over the place to anyone, willing to listen or not. She loves people and believes that only G-d has a right to judge. She believes that G-d loves al of His children and that we are all inherently good people at heart -- not wicked, as you have said in the past.

She is a good Christian, and I love her.

People are not intolerant of her. Ever. The reason? She doesn't spew hatred. She doesn't belittle those with differnt lifestyles. She doesn't try to convert everyone she meets. She doesn't act unkindly in the name of "religion."

People are generally not intolerant of Christianity. But they may very well be intolerant of you.

 

[Fantasy Sports]

This thread is stupid.

And we are all dumber for having read it.

 

[skp]

"GuyLaroche,

I think you have a lot to learn about the field of medicine.

Are you aware that the Catholic Church treats 25% of the world’s AIDS patients? Further, are you aware that charitability is directly correlated with religiosity? The United States is far and away the most charitable country in the Western world. American citizens donate per capita and relative to income 6 times more than the Brits, and it gets even uglier if we begin comparing the US to continental Europe. 7 out of 8 charity dollars that are given in this country are given by those who give to religious charities, and those who give to religious charities are also more generous to secular charities than are those who only give to secular charities. The most charitable states in this country include Mississippi (also the poorest state), Tennessee, Alabama, Utah, and North Dakota.

So there is, case in point, how religion will NEVER be removed from medicine, and there is a reason why you see hospitals all across this country with religious names—because religion built those hospitals. Thousands of doctors give their times to religious charities every year, embark across the planet to treat the suffering. And to a patient in South America or Africa, hearing your callous words that faith plays no part in healing would be complete and utter nonsense.

On Duke University

Some interesting quotations from Duke Magaine (January/February 2005):

From an article about Duke medical students journeying to Tanzania:

“Before we left, Chu gave him Septra for his diarrhea. “Take one a day, three days a week,” she told him. Lightness Kaale, a nurse practitioner at KIWAKKUKU, translated. And then we prayed. “It’s amazing how much simply praying with them helps,” said Chu. “You leave, and they’re smiling.

Another article in the same magazine talks about how a Catholic priest led the fight to bring democracy to Haiti. Read up on Aristide, about the coup d’etat that was led against him. About the leaders of this coup who claimed they brought democracy to Haiti. The rest of the article details the life of a now-Duke theology student who spoke up against those who claimed to bring democracy, about how he was sought to be arrested and executed by those who led the coup. Religion is not something minor to such people. It represents freedom and equality—the very things that through faith gave rise to this country.

Presently, members of the Duke Theology Department are assisting the Sudanese to maintain their own seminaries, and the future leaders will likely come from these seminaries to lead the the oppressed Christians in the south.

Also at Duke, the Institute on Care at the End of Life was recently formed as a collaboration between the medical and the divinity school, and it is being headed by the former head of pain and pallitative care Memorial Sloan-Kettering Cancer Center in New York and a member of the Duke Divinity School.
----

I just think it’s amazing that such a small minority can make such a loud noise, considering that somewhere between 85-90% of our nation is composed of Christians.


But really, if you want to quote Thomas Jefferson:

"No nation has ever existed or been governed without religion. Nor can be. The Christian religion is the best religion that has been given to man and I, as Chief Magistrate of this nation, am bound to give it the sanction of my example."

You're aware that the US Capital Dome was used for Christian worship during Jefferson's presidency, aren't you? (Makes you wonder where these people invented this so-called "separation of church and state.") It was the largest church in the nation by 1867 and had been attended by numerous presidents. Or that the Bible was used in American public schools while Jefferson was President and that he sanctioned its use while secretary of education?

But really, the point is that while we could go about swapping quotations all day, I think you substantially underestimate the importance of the role of belief in billions of people around the world, and that you would have the arrogance to tell them that--for instance, the only time of reference was now and that a man was crucified and resurrected to be seen by hundreds three days later meant nothing---is truly off-putting."

--that's pretty good

 

[sweatybrain]

Freaker:

Maybe I misconstrued, but your post just reeked of condescension.

"No nation has ever existed or been governed without religion. Nor can be. The Christian religion is the best religion that has been given to man and I, as Chief Magistrate of this nation, am bound to give it the sanction of my example."

I do not have a problem with Christianity. It's the notion that Christianity is somehow superior to other religions that I find troubling. I am also curious about your argument that religiosity (and by your extrapolation, Christianity) = charitability. You cited the example that America is among the most charitable nations in the world. And you attempted to strengthen your argument by comparing America to Britain and other European countries, where the majority of the population are, you guess it, Christians.

 

[GuyLaroche]

GuyLaroche,

I think you have a lot to learn about the field of medicine.

Perhaps you're right, but of Jefferson I am convinced that he preached a sort of rational practice of Christianity that is absolutely absent in the version that is dolled out by the overbearing and - to borrow a word of accusation - arrogant evangelicals. I will not bandy Jefferson quotes with you, for as you are resolute in your allegiance to the Christian God, I am unmovable in my worship of Jefferson. The Jefferson I have read and come to admire a great deal subscribed to the virtues of both the atheist and the Christian. Most of all, he recognized something inalienable about religion and in particular Christianity. It is for this reason he wrote:

"Millions of innocent men, women and children, since the introduction of Christianity, have been burnt, tortured, fined and imprisoned; yet we have not advanced one inch towards uniformity".

And yet the persecution continues. It is for this reason that I find all forms of religion loathsome and wrong. That the catholics are helping out with AIDS in Africa is commendable. A cynical me would point out the public relations strategy in using "good deeds" to draw attention from the more horrid ones being discussed in the courts of man.

 

[DianaLynne]

I feel a lot of sympathy for the feelings of persecution that the Christians on this forum face. To be assaulted on all sides for what you believe, for who you are is an exhausting and painful ordeal. They are constantly told that they are misguided in the way they live their lives, for living in a way that makes them feel happy and whole. And now they feel that they must find solace among people who will not condemn them for who they are.

It must feel a lot like being a homosexual.

 

[NEATOMD]

I do not have a problem with Christianity. It's the notion that Christianity is somehow superior to other religions that I find troubling. .

...I'm not sure what you are implying by this statement. I vernture to say that you might think that your beliefs are the ideal. Therefore, Freaker too has the right to believe that his religion is the "superior" one, just as you have the right to believe your beliefs are. That's the beauty of opinions...right or wrong...

 

[IAMS]

It must feel a lot like being a homosexual.

Amen!

 

[Crake]

No matter where you go, there will be people who let off anti-christian comments. That's just a fact of life. For many medical students who are, by and large, lovers of science, opposition to stem cell research, opposition to abortion, the belief that homosexuality is a choice, the belief that the world was created in 7 days sometime 2000 years ago, and other notions which collide with science and reason, are going to be looked down on and derided. That's just a fact of life.

But if it helps, Columbia undergrad is about the most accepting, diverse place in the country (in my opinion), I feel like the med school wouldn't be any different.

Of course, you are going to run into those annoying people in class that think homosapiens are descended from apes and cite so-called "evidence" to make their point. They hold up all this highly questionable "hard" scientific evidence like the "fossil record" and this "DNA" that people are always talking about. Can't they read the Word? Genesis anyone?

 

[Psycho Doctor]

PD: I'll post a list of the most liberal schools, ask a dumb question, and troll for feebs to bite!"

ah no, considering i applied to all those schools and was accepted to some of them and am still waiting for replies from the others...good try but wrong! try again

 

[willthatsall]

I am pretty sure Wake is a Baptist school. Not sure if the med school shares the affiliation, but I would assume so. Plus, the region is really conservative.

 

[Psycho Doctor]

I undersand your point, but by that measure what are "true Christian churches?" Catholic? Mormon? Eastern Orthodox? Unitarian? Who decides?

GOD

 

[Psycho Doctor]

And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother’s eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye? Or how wilt thy say to thy brother, "Let me pull out the mote out of thine eye; and, behold, a beam is in thine own eye?" Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother’s eye.

touche..good point

***edit: someone else can write what i mean here b/c i obviously am extremely incapable of expressing my thoughts w/o someone interpreting it as condescending, even when i'm putting myself down***

you are right...i am ashamed of my behavior today; i'll try not to ever let it happen again. I only ask for your help, please don't bait me in the future because i'm only human and am weak when tempted. God forgive me.

I am finished here.......

 

[sweatybrain]

the thing is since the others don't believe in a higher power, there is nothing that can be said for their intolerance, wrong doing, offensive nature........

so psychodoc, you are saying that people who don't believe in a higher power are offensive, intolerant, and generally evil? Maybe that was not your intended meaning, I'm just letting you know how you come across in this little anonymous forum.

 

[SocialistMD]

They hold up all this highly questionable "hard" scientific evidence like...this "DNA" that people are always talking about.

Greatest line, ever. And to frame it by putting it in quotes, that is pure genius. I love you.

 

[Kazema]

the thing is since the others don't believe in a higher power, there is nothing that can be said for their intolerance, wrong doing, offensive nature. They subscribe to their own rules, and moral code and are never wrong.

This kind of illustrates what people are angry at you about. Expressing your belief that because someone doesn't believe in God, or more specifically, your interpretation of the Bible, makes them inferior to you. Maybe (I HOPE!) that's not actually what you believe, but that's how your posts tend to come off.

That said, it takes a big man (or woman) to admit when he (or she ) has made a mistake. I know you're not a bad guy, I just hope you won't be quite so condescending in the future.

 

[sweatybrain]

Greatest line, ever. And to frame it by putting it in quotes, that is pure genius. I love you.

Haven't you heard, "DNA" is just a figment of our imagination.

 

[v-tach]

They might ostracize you if you try to hug everyone during orientation.

I'm not tolerant of future doctors who believe in creationism (god help us) and I'm probably going to a school in NYC.

I just don't see how someone's belief in creationism vs. evolutionism should have any relevance as to their competence to be a doctor. First and foremost, because that whole debate is dealing with things that happened in the ancient past that none of us was around to observe. Therefore, none of it can be "proved" or "disproved" scientifically. Medical science, on the other hand, deals with things we can actually observe as they are happening, and see the effects of our interventions on the outcome. There is a significant difference.

 

[myodana]

the thing is since the others don't believe in a higher power, there is nothing that can be said for their intolerance, wrong doing, offensive nature. They subscribe to their own rules, and moral code and are never wrong.

no, PD. they don't believe in YOUR higher power.

(and by the way, i don't think you have to worry too much about being ostracized. the christians (at least from my point of view) are the most powerful group in this nation. can you imagine any other group trying to pass constitutional amendments based on their religious beliefs? i don't see joe lieberman trying to push an agenda of making yom kippur a government holiday, or requiring circumcision in all newborn males... so don't freak out. what gets you ostracized is the fact that you're annoying!)

 

[aprilshyla]

It must feel a lot like being a homosexual.

Sigh.

Guys, its all "to each their own." I think we owe people who choose to have strong faith in a God respect for their beliefs, without denouncing it, and people whose sexual orientation might differ from us the same thing. No one knows all the right answers to everything. The only thing we can know for sure is what is right for ourselves.

However, I think it is cruelly unfair, just in a general aside, to compare the persecution faced by Christians to the persecutions faced by homosexuals in this country today. My little brother came out of the closet two years ago, and I would lose an arm and a leg to rid him of the pain that he's had to go through, at age 16 at that. I know there was a time where if he could somehow "turn himself straight," he would have done anything possible, and actually attempted suicide because he couldn't live with it. This story isn't uncommon for a lot of adolescents struggling with their sexuality, but I would say that it is extremely rare if not completely unheard of for Christians in this country. The two are utterly incomparable.

I'm an agnostic, bordering on atheist. My little brother? He's a Christian, because as he so proudly proclaims, "Jesus was the first and most badass liberal." He's made his peace with God. He's made his peace with himself. Even with the daily jibes, taunts, and threats, he's learned that this is a part of himself that he can't make go away, and for once, he's starting to learn to be happy again (no, this doesn't mean he is out sleeping with guys every night.). And I am so, so utterly proud of him. If there is a fair God, s/he would love my little brother as much as I love him and know that he's one of the most amazing kids out there, just as he is.

 

[uclabruin2003]

i truly dont hold anything against religions. i actually like religion for some people...if they didnt have it....could possibly go crazy. religion keeps people sane and moral. i like religious people who subscribe to their beliefs and do not pressure others into it. if religion is about getting along and acceptance etc, why cant the religious and non-religious just get along? if i dont try to pressure you with my beliefs, then i think that in return you shouldnt pressure you into mine.

 

[uclabruin2003]

Sigh.

Guys, its all "to each their own." I think we owe people who choose to have strong faith in a God respect for their beliefs, without denouncing it, and people whose sexual orientation might differ from us the same thing. No one knows all the right answers to everything. The only thing we can know for sure is what is right for ourselves.

However, I think it is cruelly unfair, just in a general aside, to compare the persecution faced by Christians to the persecutions faced by homosexuals in this country today. My little brother came out of the closet two years ago, and I would lose an arm and a leg to rid him of the pain that he's had to go through, at age 16 at that. I know there was a time where if he could somehow "turn himself straight," he would have done anything possible, and actually attempted suicide because he couldn't live with it. This story isn't uncommon for a lot of adolescents struggling with their sexuality, but I would say that it is extremely rare if not completely unheard of for Christians in this country. The two are utterly incomparable.

I'm an agnostic, bordering on atheist. My little brother? He's a Christian, because as he so proudly proclaims, "Jesus was the first and most badass liberal." He's made his peace with God. He's made his peace with himself. Even with the daily jibes, taunts, and threats, he's learned that this is a part of himself that he can't make go away, and for once, he's starting to learn to be happy again (no, this doesn't mean he is out sleeping with guys every night.). And I am so, so utterly proud of him. If there is a fair God, s/he would love my little brother as much as I love him and know that he's one of the most amazing kids out there, just as he is.

that was beautiful...

 

[GuyLaroche]

Whatever else might be said of Psycho doctor, he does seem like a genuinely nice person. Really, I feel I should point this out.It hasn't been fun attacking him because he doesn't throw enough bite in his retaliation. It's like stealing candy from a child - a mentally sluggish one at that. His posts are annoying not because of the mean spirit of the poster but because of the inherent meanness of the value system that inspired such posts. I quite like Psycho doctor. I think he's as crazy as his name suggests, and I disagree whole-heartedly with his religion and his political stances. Still, I quite like the almost child-like innocence of his posts. Cute in his eternal naivete.

 

[Fantasy Sports]

Sigh.

Guys, its all "to each their own." I think we owe people who choose to have strong faith in a God respect for their beliefs, without denouncing it, and people whose sexual orientation might differ from us the same thing. No one knows all the right answers to everything. The only thing we can know for sure is what is right for ourselves.

However, I think it is cruelly unfair, just in a general aside, to compare the persecution faced by Christians to the persecutions faced by homosexuals in this country today. My little brother came out of the closet two years ago, and I would lose an arm and a leg to rid him of the pain that he's had to go through, at age 16 at that. I know there was a time where if he could somehow "turn himself straight," he would have done anything possible, and actually attempted suicide because he couldn't live with it. This story isn't uncommon for a lot of adolescents struggling with their sexuality, but I would say that it is extremely rare if not completely unheard of for Christians in this country. The two are utterly incomparable.

I'm an agnostic, bordering on atheist. My little brother? He's a Christian, because as he so proudly proclaims, "Jesus was the first and most badass liberal." He's made his peace with God. He's made his peace with himself. Even with the daily jibes, taunts, and threats, he's learned that this is a part of himself that he can't make go away, and for once, he's starting to learn to be happy again (no, this doesn't mean he is out sleeping with guys every night.). And I am so, so utterly proud of him. If there is a fair God, s/he would love my little brother as much as I love him and know that he's one of the most amazing kids out there, just as he is.

I feel bad for your brother, and Im glad you love him so much.

The main reason I can't tolerate fundamentalist Christians is on the one hand they talk about loving thy neighbor and loving your family. But then they try to rally their political base by scapegoating homosexuals. What these jerks don't realize is that those homosexuals are the members of SOMEONE's family. And all the supposed love and charity in the world suddenly goes out the window when someone says they are homosexual.

What makes me the saddest about your story is that the reason your brother has had such trouble with society is because society is filled with fundamentalist intolerant Christian bigots who have scapegoated homosexuals for their problems (completely analagous to what fundamentalist Muslims have done in scapegoating the US for all their problems), making the world a much worse place for your brother.

If some of these so-called "true Christians" practiced what they preached, people like your brother wouldn't be forced to attempt to commit suicide because a bunch of *****s have arbitrarily decided that homosexuality is the root of our social ills.

And that's the most depressing thing, not that your brother is homosexual, but that supposed true Christians preach love and tolerance but don't practice it when it comes to those that need it the most.

 

[OneLove]

sorry, but how can a person who understands enough about science to be a doctor really believe in creationism? enlighten me, ye christians.

i would suggest researching just how accurate carbon dating and "tree ring dating" really is. No one asked you why you believe in what you believe in. I don't think what you asked has any relevance to the thread. I'm not defending creationism, but perhaps you should look into it before you judge it.......

 

[45408]

This thread is stupid.

And we are all dumber for having read it.

that's why I never post anything substantive in these. Everyone thinks that they're just *so* intellectual.

 

[freaker]

Freaker:

Maybe I misconstrued, but your post just reeked of condescension.

"No nation has ever existed or been governed without religion. Nor can be. The Christian religion is the best religion that has been given to man and I, as Chief Magistrate of this nation, am bound to give it the sanction of my example."

That was a quotation by Jefferson that I used to address another Jeffersonian quotation made my GuyLaroche about how we were supposed to just cast off the old. It wasn't meant to be condescending, but rather to critique and counter his use of Jefferson as a dismissal of religion and of Christianity in modern life.

I do thoroughly believe that religion should have a very strong voice in the public square in questions of morality and decency. These were beliefs very strongly held by our founders, and indeed, they believed our liberties stemmed from them (a key difference between our revolution and that of the French). Washington was a particularly strong proponent of the religious voice guiding our nation (note I said guiding, not dictating or leading).

I am also curious about your argument that religiosity (and by your extrapolation, Christianity) = charitability. You cited the example that America is among the most charitable nations in the world. And you attempted to strengthen your argument by comparing America to Britain and other European countries, where the majority of the population are, you guess it, Christians.

Note I mentioned religiosity correlates to charitability. Europe is probably the least religious place on earth at the moment. There are pockets of religiousity. Certainly Ireland, parts of Portugal, Poland. Here and there. But there is not the dynamic church that you see in North America, in Asia (particularly in South Korea and increasingly in China), in South and Central America, and in Africa. Only in Ireland is there anything close to that. I may not give proper credit to other nations, particulary those in the east. Seriously, look at charitable giving in a nation like France. It's like next to nil (indeed, 7 times less per capita). Given that the 3 chief attributes of Chrisianity are "faith, hope, and love, better known as charity," well...

Even in our own country, those states who are most religiously observant (i.e. those of the southeast, the midwest, and the far west) are without exception the most charitable and those less religiously observant, less so. Just as an example, the most charitable state in the northeast is New York, coming in at #25. Massachusetts, the 2nd wealthiest state, finishes at #46.

I really don't want to get into a pissing match over who gives more. That people give at all is a testament to the good in humanity. We all know how disgusting the contest over the psunami got. But what I am stating again is that religion does influence a people to give and to serve, and in that sense healthcare and charity (fed by faith) will forever be interlinked.

 

[NEATOMD]

I feel bad for your brother, and Im glad you love him so much.

The main reason I can't tolerate fundamentalist Christians is on the one hand they talk about loving thy neighbor and loving your family. But then they try to rally their political base by scapegoating homosexuals. What these jerks don't realize is that those homosexuals are the members of SOMEONE's family. And all the supposed love and charity in the world suddenly goes out the window when someone says they are homosexual.

What makes me the saddest about your story is that the reason your brother has had such trouble with society is because society is filled with fundamentalist intolerant Christian bigots who have scapegoated homosexuals for their problems (completely analagous to what fundamentalist Muslims have done in scapegoating the US for all their problems), making the world a much worse place for your brother.

If some of these so-called "true Christians" practiced what they preached, people like your brother wouldn't be forced to attempt to commit suicide because a bunch of *****s have arbitrarily decided that homosexuality is the root of our social ills.

And that's the most depressing thing, not that your brother is homosexual, but that supposed true Christians preach love and tolerance but don't practice it when it comes to those that need it the most.

Hey, its generally a bad idea to essentialize any set of people. I happen to be a devout (fundamentalist) Christian. I don't mistreat homosexuals. I happen not to agree with it, but I have neither condemned nor persecute any homosexual for being one. By the way, I happen to be very good friends with many. I treat them no differently than any other person I know. The only time I talk to them about what I believe with regards to matters such as this is when they specifically ask me about it. I realize that I am in no way perfect. Because I realize I am not perfect, I do my best not to judge others, but instead treat them the way I would want to be treated. Do I always succeed in this? No...I already said that I'm not perfect. I think it's really a shame that so many people lump all Christians together because of the way a select few act. Similarly, I think its a shame that some people think that all Muslim people hate America.

I ask this question: How many people that you have started an argument with have ever changed their mind completely there in front of you and then proceded to thank you for helping them to realize how wrong they were? Also, I can tell you that calling people jerks decreases your chances if you had any to begin with.

I think it is a stretch to say that most Christians believe "that homosexuality is the root of our social ills." as quoted from above. I must admit that I was somewhat offended to read this. (might have something to do with the word "*****" being included in the statement.) Basically, even if all Christians agreed that homosexuality is a sin...the bible says that all sins are equal and I can gaurantee that every Christian out there has lied (another sin) at least once. Therefore, assuming that there is a God and that homosexuality is a sin, then, even still, every non-homosexual Christian/non-christian is just as guilty as anybody else in the eyes of God. Why would I condemn others for being just as guilty as I am? Answer: I don't, judging others is a sin too .

 

[Tiki]

Ok, so I read most of this thread and I have one small thing to add.

It doesn't really matter all that much where you go to medical school. Most likely, even the most liberal schools will have a Christian group. And the truth is, you probably aren't going to be discussing "your beliefs" with your fellow classmates all that much, because you are going to be busy studying.

I've been in medical school for seven months now, and I haven't yet sat around with my fellow classmates discussing evolution. There just isn't anytime for that. We are either discussing school stuff, or we are out getting drunk trying to forget about school stuff.

Go to whatever school you like the best. You'll find people there that you can connect with.

 

[afr0dite01]

You know, i was actually really surprised at how gtown tried to play down its Catholic roots. They almost seemed ashamed of being Catholic. I sat through the presentation thinking whhhhhhat??? But anyways.... maybe i just interviewed on a wierd day or maybe i misinterpreted stuff.

There are very few schools in the country that actually teach by Catholic law in this country because it is such a controversial thing. I have found this thread hilarious because it seems like a lot of people are getting in a heated debate over things that they think Christians believe. I go attend a very Catholic college right now but I don't think that is going to harm me next year. I'm consistent in my faith but am not necessarily out to piss people off by preaching. I know what thats like...theres a lot of those at my school. But I think may of you would find it funny that all the priests/professors at my school teach evolution.

 

[Psycho Doctor]

Hey, its generally a bad idea to essentialize any set of people. I happen to be a devout (fundamentalist) Christian. I don't mistreat homosexuals. I happen not to agree with it, but I have neither condemned nor persecute any homosexual for being one. By the way, I happen to be very good friends with many. I treat them no differently than any other person I know. The only time I talk to them about what I believe with regards to matters such as this is when they specifically ask me about it. I realize that I am in no way perfect. Because I realize I am not perfect, I do my best not to judge others, but instead treat them the way I would want to be treated. Do I always succeed in this? No...I already said that I'm not perfect. I think it's really a shame that so many people lump all Christians together because of the way a select few act. Similarly, I think its a shame that some people think that all Muslim people hate America.

I ask this question: How many people that you have started an argument with have ever changed their mind completely there in front of you and then proceded to thank you for helping them to realize how wrong they were? Also, I can tell you that calling people jerks decreases your chances if you had any to begin with.

I think it is a stretch to say that most Christians believe "that homosexuality is the root of our social ills." as quoted from above. I must admit that I was somewhat offended to read this. (might have something to do with the word "*****" being included in the statement.) Basically, even if all Christians agreed that homosexuality is a sin...the bible says that all sins are equal and I can gaurantee that every Christian out there has lied (another sin) at least once. Therefore, assuming that there is a God and that homosexuality is a sin, then, even still, every non-homosexual Christian/non-christian is just as guilty as anybody else in the eyes of God. Why would I condemn others for being just as guilty as I am? Answer: I don't, judging others is a sin too .

Although i said i was done here, I felt I had to respond. I sincerely from the bottom of my heart apologize for offending Christians and non Christians a like. However I want you to know it was NEVER intentional and you people have me all wrong. Just as NEATOMD is saying here, I also believe that Christians and non Christians alike commit sins; I have said on more occasions than probably anyone else here that I am guilty. I also agree that God looks at all sins as the same so judging, lying and homosexuality is all considered equal.

I also implore you to please give up your preconceived opinions of me and my views. Just as NEATOMD said here, i too have homosexual friends and have never judged them and i have helped them come out and deal with other issues. I was so upset with all your attacks and beliefs that I am a bigot towards homosexuals, I just went back and re-read that entire thread. I honestly do not believe I was attacking anyone there despite the persistent attacks on me.

Below is every post I made on that thread...please tell me how I attacked anyone or how I was condescending. If you interpreted it that way, I sincerely apologize because it is not the way i feel and am ashamed to be perceived that way. I realize it is out of context as it does not show what I was responding to, but if anything it makes my posts seem far worse. All my posts were in response to something someone said; many were answers to questions directed to me and many were responses to direct name-calling and direct attacks on me, and my character, of which I do not feel I reciprocated.

Continued below, evidently there's a character limit here.

 

[Psycho Doctor]

continued....

just curious, do gay people like the word "queer"; for some reason to me, it always sounded disrespectful and offensive but I always see gay people here using it.

just curious why you would want to bring it up. I'm a very strong Christian and would not bring it up on my own, only if it was necessary to answer a particular question.

actually it was probably because he saw you were judgemental and disrespectful of others' (his) beliefs. Your sarcasm is offensive; it's no wonder you were waitlisted. Hopefully you didn't actually say that to him but maybe your bigotry was obvious.

Mateodaspy, wow so comprehensive! so did you request a gay host each time? Either you spent a lot of time at these schools or you somehow found out an amazingly incredible amount of information on the gay scenes there in a short period of time. i can see a gay host giving you the inside info but other than that I'm surprised you found out such comprehensive infromation during a day at the school when so many various things are discussed. Your information is sure to be very helpful to many people.

oh boy, i never saw this before today

first of all, I'm not even Catholic so if you are trying to bash me and Catholics at the same time we don't really even believe in the same things

secondly, I merely asked why gays would bring it up b/c it's a controversial topic and open to judgemental viewpoints and bigotry, as is my religion which is exactly why i don't bring it up even though I am passionate about it. and no stinky everyone who doesn't agree with me is not a bigot and i am not a bigot either despite how i know you enjoy calling me one.

and thank you for the explanation of why "queer" is not offensive. i was only trying to be compassionate towards them in my concern.

and i would kindly ask you again please don't put words in my mouth as you are extremely judgemental towards me and your posts reek of hatred

I didn't see this response until now. I can understand why you feel as you do, People that care about you only say what they do because they believe so strongly in their faith and love you so much and honestly think they are helping you. Sorry for making unfair accusations earlier.

wow I think you totally over-reacted. He/she was only trying to give you good advice. Not everyone is as open as you feel they should be (right or wrong) and bringing up ANY controversial topic repeatedly may not be in your own best interest. However if your main concern is a gay campus perhaps you should have checked all this out before applying to med school, and only apply to those which were totally gay friendly. Maybe you could even have requested a gay interviewer to make sure their was no one who didn't welcome excessive discussion on a subject they are not overly comfortable with. Surely a gay person knows more about the gay atmosphere, clubs, etc on campus.

you people amaze me. I guess these people who feel everyone should welcome and be totally acceptable of constant discussion on gay life at med school are the same people who also welcome evangelical Christians and southern conservative Christians and their viewpoints with open arms? You people hate them discussing their views all the time but you expect them or others to want to discuss gasy life all the time? Remember they too are humans with real lives, just as they are.

I assume you meant "homosexual"

I think this is excellent! I can definitely see how it's open for discussion and actually gives one the opportunity to discuss what is important to them, without throwing it out at seemingly inopportune times.

well you're wrong then and when you come off posting like this, your posts come off sounding (to me at least) very condescending.

I happen to have several gay friends with whom I have discussed the subject very open-mindly. One is also applying to med school, so it's not like I've never dealt with this situation, and compassionately too, mind you.

oh well then you won't read this either, but i'm happy to know you have me blocked; it certainly makes my life easier. Now if only a few more of you would follow suit.

 

[Psycho Doctor]

continued more....

just the point; your exact comment to me was too general and unsubstantiated




yea ok fine and i guess the 4 years i worked in an AIDS hospice mopping the heads and holding hands of gay men transitioning between life and death is also indictative of my hatred and closed-mindedness toward homosexuals. (those who read my PS can vouch that that is true.)

sheesh, it's amazing how one has to be either gay or homophobic in your book. It's impossible to be heterosexual, not necessarily agree with their lifestyle but be tolerant and compassionate enough to want to help them out. And unless one is gay it's impossible to offer a friendly compassionate ear to listen to the problems. You wouldn't believe how many people (homosexual and heterosexual) have told me I listen objectively to their problems and offer them good compassionate advice. But I don't really expect you to understand b/c you already had your own preconceived opinion of me and don't even want to give me a chance.

Let me try to address your questions. First of all this work was done a few years ago and I was a lot more naive then. In addition i was interviewed very thoroughly before obtaining this volunteer position because they realize how difficult it is notr only to deal with dying patients but also those with a different life style. And I am supervised. Also as a Chrisitan, we love sinners but not their sin, so if I acted offensively towards them I'd be defying my faith. And of course there were times acted upset; that comes with listening to those able to speak express concern of dying or leaving their family behind. But most of them just needed someone to be with them so they weren't alone. To me these were not heterosexuals or homosexuals; they were lonely people in pain, suffering a horrible death and not wanting to do it alone.

As far as the more recent example, gay people not in the throes of death. I have met plenty of gay patients. Sure I notice they're gay but that doesn't make them any less human or in the need of medical care. I've also worked with gay health care workers and treat them loke anyone else. Sure I wouldn't hit on them but that's not my style with girls either (well maybe I'd flirt with cute girls if I didn't have a girlfriend already). As I mentioned before I also have a couple of gay friends. I have been in the situation more times than I care to mention so I think I could act nonchalantly if gay lifestyle was brought up. Now if someone attempted to pick me up or go somewhere with all homosexual males, that's a totally different story.

that's exacxtly what i thought, so i decided to ignore it.

It's interesting that homosexual people aren't confident in their own lifestyle that they feel it's a mechanism to bash others.

there might be a chance of that if there were actually any present on this thread

hey there, i agree that it's the lifestyle tha tis sinful. Love the sinner, hate the sin. And yes of course many of the Leviticus laws were overturned with the new covenant. However the NT talks against homosexuality. And I also agree with you that any premartial sex is sinful.

i'm not even going to attempt to understand that

hey i didn't make the rules....

and to mention just a few:

Romans 1:26-27: "For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature: And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet."

1 Corinthians 6:9 "Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders."

1 Timothy 1:9 "We also know that law is made not for the righteous but for lawbreakers and rebels, the ungodly and sinful, the unholy and irreligious; for those who kill their fathers or mothers, for murderers, for adulterers and perverts, for slave traders and liars and perjurers--and for whatever else is contrary to the sound doctrine"

what did i do now?

actually it's not surprising at all. Christian (true ones) beliefs are synonomous with "pro-life, super religious, think homosexuality is a sin, think premarital sex is a sin". And I brought up the Chrisitian issue to indicate i'm also a minority in a morally, /emotionally charged stereotype, and one that often causes controversy, so in many ways i can identify with the situation.

thanks for the clarification; otherwise i'd never have realized that

no not exactly...

Genesis 5:4 "After he begot Seth, the days of Adam were eight hundred years; and he had sons and daughters. "

Brothers must have married sisters at the beginning. The law against close intermarriage was not given until the time of Moses "none of you shall approach to any that is near of kin to him" (Leviticus 18:6). There was nothing wrong with brother and sister marriages, originally. If you think about it, that is the only way to populate the world, starting with only one pair. Even Abraham married his half sister with no condemnation from God, even though this was later forbidden.

huh?? it's not one of the main tenets of Christianity; however it is what people associate our beliefs with. And what does it have to do with the importance of charity to the poverty stricken? Since when is homosexuals poverty stricken? I did not come to this thread to enforce my beliefs and wa sonly responding to certain questions; i'm not going to lie in my responses to them.

excellent points, thank you



i guess you don't believe the Bible is the inspired word of God. I'm still trying to figure you out and where you fit in here.

edit: there were 3 laughs here but evidently there's too many smilies in this post..so many limitations

Again I am sorry and I hope you can realize that I do not personally garner any animosity towards any individual or any group of people. Peace

 

[Brain]

Below is every post I made on that thread...please tell me how I attacked anyone or how I was condescending.

Okay I'll take you up on that.

actually it was probably because he saw you were judgemental and disrespectful of others' (his) beliefs. Your sarcasm is offensive; it's no wonder you were waitlisted. Hopefully you didn't actually say that to him but maybe your bigotry was obvious.

Here you make a personal attack on someone because she states she's an atheist.

hey i didn't make the rules....

and to mention just a few:

Romans 1:26-27: "For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature: And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet."

1 Corinthians 6:9 "Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders."

1 Timothy 1:9 "We also know that law is made not for the righteous but for lawbreakers and rebels, the ungodly and sinful, the unholy and irreligious; for those who kill their fathers or mothers, for murderers, for adulterers and perverts, for slave traders and liars and perjurers--and for whatever else is contrary to the sound doctrine"

You quote antihomosexual quotes on a gay friendly thread. How can you not see that this is offensive??

It wasn't just this thread that you attacked people. Everyone knows your stance on everything because you put it out there whether it is appropriate or not, so just your presence on such a thread is offensive because we know that you disapprove of homosexuality. Do you really not see why many people dislike you? Take a hint from this bumper sticker as it definately applies to you:

 

[SRQGirl]

no, no, not at all. I just wanted to feel comfortable with other med students who wasn't going to bash me for my religious and conservative views; I wanted people to be tolerant and not consider Christians to be "in a dream world", "unable to reason", "*****s", etc, etc

Umm, I went to Brown for undergrad. (it doesn't get much more liberal) and I never heard anybody call Christians *****s. I'm not fundamentalist or anything, but I go to church occasionally and had my Bible in my room and it was never an issue. I'm very liberal in my political and social beliefs, and I know the few conservatives on campus felt like they were outnumbered a lot of the time, but nobody (Christian, Muslim, Jew, Hindu, atheist, etc.) was ever "bashed" for their religious beliefs.

I don't think you're giving these schools enough credit and it seems that you have a slight persecution complex.

 

[Psycho Doctor]

Okay I'll take you up on that.



Here you make a personal attack on someone because she states she's an atheist.

I did not make any comment b/c she stated she is an atheist. My comment was in reference to her calling Christianity "fantasyland" or something to that effect; therefore she attacked Christianity, I did not attack her. Furthermore, I also apologized to her.

See you all enjoy taking things out of context and twisting things around to make me appear even worse than i already am. I'm far from perfect; i'm not even good but i am not as bad as you people all make me out to be.

You quote antihomosexual quotes on a gay friendly thread. How can you not see that this is offensive??

I responded to someone specifically asking ME for the Biblical references.

It wasn't just this thread that you attacked people. Everyone knows your stance on everything because you put it out there whether it is appropriate or not, so just your presence on such a thread is offensive because we know that you disapprove of homosexuality. Do you really not see why many people dislike you?

You do not know my stance on everything; you people have preconceived opinions on me and many times they are wrong. Someone expressed surprise at my stance on stem cell research even yesterday. So may I suggest you do not put words in my mouth. I have apologized for anything I may have said or anything that may have been misinterpreted and i mean it sincerely. Peace

 

[Psycho Doctor]

Umm, I went to Brown for undergrad. (it doesn't get much more liberal) and I never heard anybody call Christians *****s. I'm not fundamentalist or anything, but I go to church occasionally and had my Bible in my room and it was never an issue. I'm very liberal in my political and social beliefs, and I know the few conservatives on campus felt like they were outnumbered a lot of the time, but nobody (Christian, Muslim, Jew, Hindu, atheist, etc.) was ever "bashed" for their religious beliefs.

I don't think you're giving these schools enough credit and it seems that you have a slight persecution complex.

so pre-med students on this board are not representative of med students in schools?

I also go to a very liberal undergrad school and am well respected for my views and have never had a problem with anyone; things just seemed like it was going to be very different in med school

 

[SRQGirl]

so pre-med students on this board are not representative of med students in schools?

I also go to a very liberal undergrad school and am well respected for my views and have never had a problem with anyone; things just seemed like it was going to be very different in med school

I don't think this forum is at all representative of med students. This website attracts the most neurotic, extreme pre-meds out there (i completely understand that I'm being self-depricating here). I think you're going to get idiots no matter what school you go to - my definition of idiots is basically people who are intolerant of other people's choices - and no matter where you go, the majority of people will be just fine with your religious beliefs. Honestly, as someone said before, I don't think the conservative Christian right really has much cause to worry about persecution....especially at this particular point in our country's history.

 

[leechy]

I just don't see how someone's belief in creationism vs. evolutionism should have any relevance as to their competence to be a doctor. First and foremost, because that whole debate is dealing with things that happened in the ancient past that none of us was around to observe. Therefore, none of it can be "proved" or "disproved" scientifically. Medical science, on the other hand, deals with things we can actually observe as they are happening, and see the effects of our interventions on the outcome. There is a significant difference.

The problem with this is that much of science deals with things we weren't around to observe, even in medicine. Take forensic medicine, for instance; the whole underlying assumption of the field is that we can find out what happened at a crime scene by examining the evidence even if we weren't around when the crime actually happened. Still, we believe we can prove or disprove who did the crime with respectable (though not perfect) accuracy.

I agree that creationists could still make competent physicians... but I do think that when it comes to academic medicine / research, a lot of things don't really make sense except in the context of evolution. I don't rule out the possibility of a creationist contributing, but I know my own study of evolution has yielded a lot of insight into the nature of disease, mental illness, the structure of the human body, etc.

 

[leechy]

Someone expressed surprise at my stance on stem cell research even yesterday.

That would be me Actually, if you don't mind saying, I was just curious about whether you make a moral distinction between stem cells derived from adults and those derived from embryos. Don't worry, I'm not going to respond or start a debate, and I hope no one else does either; I'm just honestly curious. Bioethics is one of my personal interests.

But about the larger issue: I don't think you'll experience intolerance/bashing in med school, anymore than you did in college (and I hope you didn't in college). Like others were saying, we sometimes behave on this site in ways we would never in real life. I would never dream of engaging in a discussion with someone about religion, abortion, homosexuality, etc in real life unless they were an extremely close friend, or if they themselves brought up the topic and it turned out I agreed with them. I suppose that's part of the attraction of this site: that we can discuss "hot topics" that we would never engage in with our colleagues or unfamiliar classmates. I normally stay away from discussing politics or religion in real life because I know they are very sensitive issues, and they tend to leave a bad aftertaste

But whatever the case, I think you'll be a valued classmate wherever you go to med school. Good luck, PD.

 

[SocialistMD]

... but I do think that when it comes to academic medicine / research, a lot of things don't really make sense except in the context of evolution. I don't rule out the possibility of a creationist contributing, but I know my own study of evolution has yielded a lot of insight into the nature of disease, mental illness, the structure of the human body, etc.

What?

There are plenty of areas in medical research a creationist could make great strides. Everyone acknowledges that proteins/enzymes exist. A belief in evolution doesn't change how these structures work, nor does it change how one goes about figuring out how they work. Nobel prizes are won without any play into the evolution of an enzyme; why something is the way it is isn't the same as how it works or what it does. The same holds true for clinical research; the evolution of man plays little to no part in the treatment of sickle cell anemia or cancer(unless you want to argue familial genetics, but I'm pretty sure creationists will acknowledge the passing of hereditary material).

Piecing the whole story together may require one to take a stance one way or another, but it is rarely necessary in order to do the actual work.

 

[stinkycheese]

It's interesting that homosexual people aren't confident in their own lifestyle that they feel it's a mechanism to bash others

There you go, Psycho. You hate when people judge you by one comment, but here you just can't resist getting in a little dig on homosexuals by saying that they're not comfortable with themselves, which is far from the truth. You're doing several things here: judging a group based on your interactions with a few; implying that homosexual lifestyle is wrong and that homosexuals themselves "know" they're wrong; and that homosexuals "bash" others, which is so far from the truth, considering it is gay people in this country who face hatred from the general masses (and from you.) That's pretty offensive, PSYCHO.

And furthermore, I don't know why I am pandering to your pleas for attention here. Honestly, you are such a self-absorbed person, pretending to be so self-deprecating so that people will feel badly for you when you paint yourself into a corner that you can't argue out of. When it's clear that you are losing an argument, you just start saying, "I'm sorry, I must be an awful person", which is so middle school, so much fishing for compliments, trying to divert attention from the matter at hand so that we'll all go, "Oh, poor, stupid Psycho, he's dumb and he doesn't know any better and now we like him again." It's so juvenile. Believe it or not, everything isn't about you and I don't really care if you claim to hate yourself -- and we don't need to read these stupid posts asking, "how did I do anything wrong? please tell me I'm a good person. WAAAHHHHHH!!!"

It's clear from your dumb "let's go fishing for compliments" posts that you are just trying to get attention for yourself. But in any case, let me close by saying, "It's interesting that Christian people aren't confident in their own lifestyle that they feel it's a mechanism to bash others."

 

[SocialistMD]

There you go, Psycho. You hate when people judge you by one comment, but here you just can't resist getting in a little dig on homosexuals by saying that they're not comfortable with themselves, which is far from the truth.

Honestly, you are such a self-absorbed person, pretending to be so self-deprecating so that people will feel badly for you when you paint yourself into a corner that you can't argue out of. When it's clear that you are losing an argument, you just start saying, "I'm sorry, I must be an awful person", which is so middle school, so much fishing for compliments, trying to divert attention from the matter at hand so that we'll all go, "Oh, poor, stupid Psycho, he's dumb and he doesn't know any better and now we like him again." It's so juvenile. Believe it or not, everything isn't about you and I don't really care if you claim to hate yourself -- and we don't need to read these stupid posts asking, "how did I do anything wrong? please tell me I'm a good person. WAAAHHHHHH!!!"

But in any case, let me close by saying, "It's interesting that Christian people aren't confident in their own lifestyle that they feel it's a mechanism to bash others."

Pot, meet kettle.

And I know this is your attempt at irony and that I removed portions of the statement and it is all out of context and blah blah blah, but it was just too good to pass. Maybe it is because I am a mean, nasty person. I'm not picking on you, though, it just so happens that you were the one to post this and I found it funny.

 

[leechy]

What?

There are plenty of areas in medical research a creationist could make great strides. Everyone acknowledges that proteins/enzymes exist. A belief in evolution doesn't change how these structures work, nor does it change how one goes about figuring out how they work. Nobel prizes are won without any play into the evolution of an enzyme; why something is the way it is isn't the same as how it works or what it does. The same holds true for clinical research; the evolution of man plays little to no part in the treatment of sickle cell anemia or cancer(unless you want to argue familial genetics, but I'm pretty sure creationists will acknowledge the passing of hereditary material).

Piecing the whole story together may require one to take a stance one way or another, but it is rarely necessary in order to do the actual work.

I mainly agree with you; I've always felt that biochemistry was one place in particular where a belief in evolution wasn't enormously relevant. But I think there are plenty of places in medicine - immunology and psychiatry come to mind - where a grounding in evolutionary theory could provide a lot of insight, even if they aren't necessary per se to contribute. My own statement was based on my exploration of Darwinian medicine; I definitely think it has a contribution to make to medicine, and I see some immediate ways in which evolutionary theory should impact the treatment of disease (or at the very least, give grounds for further exploration of particular issues).

 

[stinkycheese]

Pot, meet kettle.

And I know this is your attempt at irony and that I removed portions of the statement and it is all out of context and blah blah blah, but it was just too good to pass. Maybe it is because I am a mean, nasty person. I'm not picking on you, though, it just so happens that you were the one to post this and I found it funny.

Thanks, it's nice to see my fan club is still up and running I'm glad you're still obsessed with replying to my posts, pal.

 

[sweatybrain]

just to provide a fair and balance view point:

a survey of the National Academy of Sciences members

I don't think there is anything wrong with believing in God as a scientist -- I do -- but I just think it requires a totally different mode of thinking. Science is evidence-based, while religion is faith-based (and consequently cannot be proved or disproved)

If you chose not to believe in "DNA" or "hard scientific evidence," that's fine. Just know that a lot of therapeutic modalities you will administer and prescribe to your patients are grounded in the sciences.