Ok to be scared (pandemic) - you are not alone.

[KeikoTanaka]

Im getting emotional whiplash from being bombarded with an apocalypse scenario, a total lack of stuff to wipe my butt with, the death of entire industries to what is appearing to be quite lackluster.

This is totally insane...1/3 of ALL coronavirus deaths in the state of Arizona are due to people taking unnecessary chloroquine...let that sink in.

It's like evidence based medicine was totally abandoned in favor of a total hysteria.

Literally if our "President" didn't shout nonsense over Twitter as if he were a Physician and potentiate the idea that all of our media sources were liars since day 1, a lot more people would have probably believed them and been more quick to act to contain any potential spread. Instead, they were "over-exaggerating" because it was all a "conspiracy to make Trump look bad". If he was just honest from the get-go, the masses who cannot think for themselves and follow clippits on Social Media might have believed it from the get-go.

Furthermore, he is sitting here in all caps yelling out random drug names that, while yes, they may work, should not be broadcasted over Twitter giving people idiotic ideas about drugs they know nothing about. That was the job for Physicians, not the President. But, he wanted to look like he was doing something so of course had to quickly yell out "cures" as if he was some genius that helped the FDA get on track to a cure.

There are people in the Middle East who's homes are being bombed (by us), they have no school to send their children to, are in constant fear of their lives, and you're talking about emotional whiplash from an "apocalypse scenario" (that you literally learned all about in school). because you can't wipe your butt. Idk man, maybe you need to pick up a hobby, or plan for how you'll live your life post-Corona and get back to it on a better foot.

 

[KeikoTanaka]

I agree that the Chinese Govt are liars, however we have lots of American companies on the ground there like Starbucks and Apple, and their CEO's have verified that the outbreak has been contained.

I'm not saying it's not contained, but they also just expelled all American reporters from the country so who knows what little pockets of things they're trying to quell, and by what means they'll do so covertly.

 

[Allegri]

And now it is not just the "masses who cannot think for themselves," we now have physicians overprescribing chloroquine to themselves and family in order to hoard medicine for themselves. Looking more like a bad novel by the day.

 

[D1b()4]

Only in the affected area and only for a few weeks.

No, it was not only in the severely affected areas; they incurred major economic damage trying to get the situation under control. And I did not say that they shut down their economy for good. Here is another article for you: Coronavirus Pushes China’s Economy to the Brink
They would not have implemented these drastic measures over nothing. Stop spreading fake news and alternative facts.

 

[mikesheree]

Literally if our "President" didn't shout nonsense over Twitter as if he were a Physician and potentiate the idea that all of our media sources were liars since day 1, a lot more people would have probably believed them and been more quick to act to contain any potential spread. Instead, they were "over-exaggerating" because it was all a "conspiracy to make Trump look bad". If he was just honest from the get-go, the masses who cannot think for themselves and follow clippits on Social Media might have believed it from the get-go.

Furthermore, he is sitting here in all caps yelling out random drug names that, while yes, they may work, should not be broadcasted over Twitter giving people idiotic ideas about drugs they know nothing about. That was the job for Physicians, not the President. But, he wanted to look like he was doing something so of course had to quickly yell out "cures" as if he was some genius that helped the FDA get on track to a cure.

There are people in the Middle East who's homes are being bombed (by us), they have no school to send their children to, are in constant fear of their lives, and you're talking about emotional whiplash from an "apocalypse scenario" (that you literally learned all about in school). because you can't wipe your butt. Idk man, maybe you need to pick up a hobby, or plan for how you'll live your life post-Corona and get back to it on a better foot.

La, I think there is a liberal medical student who you have “triggered”. How insensitive of you. The least you can do is direct her to a “safe space”.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[bronx43]

And now it is not just the "masses who cannot think for themselves," we now have physicians overprescribing chloroquine to themselves and family in order to hoard medicine for themselves. Looking more like a bad novel by the day.

You got evidence to back that up? Sure, I know people on the front lines keeping a small supply with them, but I don't know many who "hoard" it.

 

[Allegri]

You got evidence to back that up? Sure, I know people on the front lines keeping a small supply with them, but I don't know many who "hoard" it.

I read about it in a NY Times article:

www.nytimes.com/2020/03/24/business/coronavirus-doctors-hoard-drugs.html?action=click&module=Top%20Stories&pgtype=Homepage

 

[bronx43]

I read about it in a NY Times article:

www.nytimes.com/2020/03/24/business/coronavirus-doctors-hoard-drugs.html?action=click&module=Top%20Stories&pgtype=Homepage

I saw that too, but they presented no data to support this claim, other than "pharmacists are saying this on Facebook."

And they have no idea how many of those "self prescribing doctors" are on the front lines, for which I think having a supply of HCQ would be reasonable (assuming that it's effective).

 

[caffeinegirl]

See Doctors Are Hoarding Unproven Coronavirus Medicine by Writing Prescriptions for Themselves and Their Families — ProPublica

 

[gbwillner]

I'm not an ID doctor but I am having trouble understanding how chloroquine is effective against a viral pathogen like Coronavirus.

 

[KeikoTanaka]

La, I think there is a liberal medical student who you have “triggered”. How insensitive of you. The least you can do is direct her to a “safe space”.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

I am not triggered. The only safe space I know right now is my apartment unfortunately. But, if you'd like to explain why you disagree or have facts that contradict me, and would like to have discourse about that, I'm very open to such discussions. Saying i'm "triggered" is a lousy weak way to try and simply dismiss claims from someone without having to argue if you felt differently.

 

[Dave CX]

As per the CDC, deaths by AGE of flu last year. Young people dying which is NOT happening with the Corona cold.

Age group	Estimate	95% UI	Estimate	95% UI	Estimate	95% UI	Estimate	95%UI
0-4 yrs	3,633,104	(2,506,551, 7,199,330)	2,434,180	(1,667,892, 4,820,252)	25,328	(17,475, 50,191)	266	(85, 713)
5-17 yrs	7,663,310	(6,027,982, 10,438,419)	3,984,921	(3,067,414, 5,415,715)	21,012	(16,528, 28,621)	211	(38, 640)
18-49 yrs	11,913,203	(10,077,523, 16,032,899)	4,407,885	(3,498,694, 6,064,550)	66,869	(56,565, 89,993)	2,450	(1,402, 5,813)
50-64 yrs	9,238,038	(6,582,690, 15,759,286)	3,972,356	(2,712,868, 6,886,487)	97,967	(69,808, 167,123)	5,676	(3,547, 13,486)
65+ yrs	3,073,227	(2,008,898, 6,030,701)	1,721,007	(1,097,482, 3,394,980)	279,384	(182,627, 548,246)	25,555	(17,874, 41,363)
All ages	35,520,883	(31,323,881, 44,995,691)	16,520,350	(14,322,767, 21,203,231)	490,561	(387,283, 766,472)	34,157	(26,339, 52,664)

 

[bronx43]

I'm not an ID doctor but I am having trouble understanding how chloroquine is effective against a viral pathogen like Coronavirus.

It has been postulated to increase endosomal pH which may inhibit infusion with cellular organelles and potentially inhibit viral entry.

A couple papers including in Nature have been published recently with in vitro studies.

My problem with this theory is the fact that CQ/HCQ have also been shown to inhibit certain Toll-like receptors which are necessary for APCs.

Hence why we need in vivo...

 

[D1b()4]

As per the CDC, deaths by AGE of flu last year. Young people dying which is NOT happening with the Corona cold.

Age group	Estimate	95% UI	Estimate	95% UI	Estimate	95% UI	Estimate	95%UI
0-4 yrs	3,633,104	(2,506,551, 7,199,330)	2,434,180	(1,667,892, 4,820,252)	25,328	(17,475, 50,191)	266	(85, 713)
5-17 yrs	7,663,310	(6,027,982, 10,438,419)	3,984,921	(3,067,414, 5,415,715)	21,012	(16,528, 28,621)	211	(38, 640)
18-49 yrs	11,913,203	(10,077,523, 16,032,899)	4,407,885	(3,498,694, 6,064,550)	66,869	(56,565, 89,993)	2,450	(1,402, 5,813)
50-64 yrs	9,238,038	(6,582,690, 15,759,286)	3,972,356	(2,712,868, 6,886,487)	97,967	(69,808, 167,123)	5,676	(3,547, 13,486)
65+ yrs	3,073,227	(2,008,898, 6,030,701)	1,721,007	(1,097,482, 3,394,980)	279,384	(182,627, 548,246)	25,555	(17,874, 41,363)
All ages	35,520,883	(31,323,881, 44,995,691)	16,520,350	(14,322,767, 21,203,231)	490,561	(387,283, 766,472)	34,157	(26,339, 52,664)

Stop spreading false information. First, young people DO die from COVID-19, albeit at much lower rates than the elderly. Second, the table you have posted is not useful, especially without the properly marked columns (here is the link to the full table: Estimated Influenza Illnesses, Medical visits, Hospitalizations, and Deaths in the United States — 2018–2019 influenza season | CDC). Second column from the left is the estimate of influenza symptomatic illnesses, and second column from the right is the estimate of deaths. Divide the number of deaths by the number of symptomatic illnesses and multiple by 100% and you will get very small fatality rates compared to COVID-19.

 

[Dave CX]

Stop spreading false information. First, young people DO die from COVID-19, albeit at much lower rates than the elderly. Second, the table you have posted is not useful, especially without the properly marked columns (here is the link to the full table: Estimated Influenza Illnesses, Medical visits, Hospitalizations, and Deaths in the United States — 2018–2019 influenza season | CDC). Second column from the left is the estimate of influenza symptomatic illnesses, and second column from the right is the estimate of deaths. Divide the number of deaths by the number of symptomatic illnesses and multiple by 100% and you will get very small fatality rates compared to COVID-19.

its from the CDC and show me stats on young people dying from the Corona Cold. sucks to be wrong

 

[D1b()4]

its from the CDC and show me stats on young people dying from the Corona Cold. sucks to be wrong

I know it is from the CDC, but it doesn't support your argument. Influenza fatality rate for nearly all groups in your table (with the exception 65+) is much lower than 0.1%. Here is the mortality data from China for COVID-19 (Global Covid-19 Case Fatality Rates - CEBM):

Reported CFRs by age were

Age (deaths/cases)	CFR (95% CI)
≤ 9 years (0/416)	0%
10 to 19 years (1/549)	0.18% (0.03 to 1.02%)
20 to 49 years (63/19790)	0.32% (0.25% to 0.41%)
50 to 59 years (130/10,008)	1.3% (1.1% to 1.5%)
60 to 69. years (309/8583)	3.6% (3.2% to 4.0%)
70 to 79 years (312/3918)	8.0% (7.2% to 8.9%)
≥80 years (208/1408)	14.8% (13.0% to 16.7%)

And here are some links to prove that young adults DO die from COVID-19, even in the United States:

Teenager Dies From the Coronavirus in California

The victim is one of the youngest in the United States. “Covid-19 does not discriminate by age, race or income level,” the Los Angeles County health department said.

www.nytimes.com

20% of US COVID-19 Deaths Were Aged 20-64

A study from the CDC on cases between February 12 and March 16 also showed that patients aged 20 to 44 appeared to be at higher risk for hospitalization and ICU admission.

www.medscape.com

The number of deaths will definitely increase if COVID-19 continues to spread. So far, we have had only ~50k COVID-19 cases, and millions of people get influenza annually. If millions of people get COVID-19, we will be in trouble. If you can't comprehend this basic math, there is no point to continue arguing with you: you are either too dumb or too stubborn to admit that you are wrong.

 

[y2k_free_radical]

Webb

I am now at 30% volume. Very annoying but I have no overhead other than my malpractice. But I have short days now so I can catch stripers which are starting to show up on my Chesapeake cottage waterfront!!!

I'D LIKE SOME STRIPPERS ON MY WATERFRONT

 

[WEBB PINKERTON]

Can't people argue without calling each other dumb? Get some social skills. Bad enough to see it daily with the press and president.

We have no clue how covid has spread. All data is pretty useless. Maybe antibody tests will help us learn.

 

[D1b()4]

Can't people argue without calling each other dumb? Get some social skills. Bad enough to see it daily with the press and president.

He started it with his snowflake comment.

 

[gbwillner]

Just curious...did you vote for Hillary?

Just curious... what is the point of your post? Does it have something to do with pathology?

 

[Dave CX]

Just curious... what is the point of your post? Does it have something to do with pathology?

No it does not

 

[LADoc00]

Does any see random covid websites all with totally different numbers? Like foreign actors, big finance etc is running some elaborate multi-platform psy ops campaign to sow utter chaos at time when hysteria is like already an 11 out of 10?

Is this actually happening or did someone put PCP in my cigar a few weeks ago and really I am imaging all this from inside a room at a mental facility???

 

[Deucedano]

The numbers of infected change and are different because the positive cases are assigned to the patients home state as opposed to the place where they tested positive. Seems to be an issue for people that have second homes in more rural/vacation states trying to escape places like CA and NY and bringing the infection with them. Sun Valley is a good example.

Ive found the most accurate site for tracking is the Hopkins site Johns Hopkins Coronavirus Resource Center . Seems to be the most up to date and accurate. The numbers are a moot point though theres probably 10-20x more people infected than those numbers imply. My hospital system has tested almost 5k and we only have results for 1k so far. What I cant find easily is the number of people hospitalized, in ICUs and on vents. Those numbers seem to be more relevant than the number infected which is a gross underestimate.

 

[dukeresident]

Remember when...On Feb. 26 Trump declared that “You have 15 people, and the 15 within a couple of days is going to be close to zero.”

 

[dukeresident]

I saw that too, but they presented no data to support this claim, other than "pharmacists are saying this on Facebook."

And they have no idea how many of those "self prescribing doctors" are on the front lines, for which I think having a supply of HCQ would be reasonable (assuming that it's effective).

my wife has lupus and needs 400 mg.hydroxychloroquine per day as a maintenance dose. Impossible to get at the moment.

 

[KeratinPearls]

my wife has lupus and needs 400 mg.hydroxychloroquine per day as a maintenance dose. Impossible to get at the moment.

yeah one guy brought that up to Anthony Fauci on CNNs town hall tonight

 

[bronx43]

my wife has lupus and needs 400 mg.hydroxychloroquine per day as a maintenance dose. Impossible to get at the moment.

How does this prove that it’s the physicians who are most complicit in “hoarding” HCQ?

I’m not saying there aren’t docs out there hoarding it but it’s poor form for a large news outlet to put this out without more
Evidence than anecdotes from pharmacists.

 

[Guest8]

How does this prove that it’s the physicians who are most complicit in “hoarding” HCQ?

I’m not saying there aren’t docs out there hoarding it but it’s poor form for a large news outlet to put this out without more
Evidence than anecdotes from pharmacists.

It's not just physicians. My pharmacist relatives are hoarding HCQ at the moment, even though we tried to get them to give it back and to swear they won't take it.

 

[bronx43]

It's not just physicians. My pharmacist relatives are hoarding HCQ at the moment, even though we tried to get them to give it back and to swear they won't take it.

I agree. it's everyone.
This is what happens in a crisis. People become irrational due to panic.

I just don't appreciate NYT putting out what I equate to as a hit piece on physicians regarding "hoarding" HCQ.

 

[gbwillner]

My understanding is that there is no solid evidence outside for some in vitro work that this will do anything. It is possible/likely this does more harm than good.

 

[gbwillner]

If I were to hoard anything it would be Avigan /favipiravir, which has already shown effectiveness in China's COVID-19 cases

https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.03.17.20037432v1.full.pdf

 

[bronx43]

My understanding is that there is no solid evidence outside for some in vitro work that this will do anything. It is possible/likely this does more harm than good.

It's possible, but not sure that it's "likely".

 

[KeratinPearls]

If I were to hoard anything it would be Avigan /favipiravir, which has already shown effectiveness in China's COVID-19 cases

https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.03.17.20037432v1.full.pdf

yes my doctor friends in Asia told me the sane thing.

 

[gbwillner]

The only clinical testing of HCQ in the French study I reviewed was not very convincing. They looked for the percent of patients that had a positive COVID-19 test over time, and showed that the HCQ group (and a lot more significantly when combined with azithromycin) were more likely to get negative tests over time. The sample size is too small and the data acquisition is not consistent. There is no attempt to match the controls for disease severity- in fact a large group of control patients are asymptomatic. They do not address if patient outcomes actually improve. In fact, several patients are censored from the results because they are admitted to the ICU or die,

https://www.mediterranee-infection.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/03/Hydroxychloroquine_final_DOI_IJAA.pdf

 

[gbwillner]

yes my doctor friends in Asia told me the sane thing.

at least that study has 240 patients and is compared to another antiviral drug vs. doing nothing.

 

[gbwillner]

Im starting to think this is bogus...4 deaths in all of California by 3/23? FOUR? FOUR??

We just destroyed entire industries, annihilated the dreams of hundreds of thousands of small business folks, derailed schools, nuked tax revenue, put 100,000+ homeless people up to ransack our finest hotels, stopped all elective procedures...FOR FOUR PEOPLE?!

...

Just to f/u on your post made 4 days ago when the death count was 27... the incubation time is now determined to be 5.1 days, but the death count in CA as of 3/26 is at 65.

 

[Path of Most Resistance]

@yaah

Yaah, are you ok? Your last post was Feb 8.

Thoughts and prayers,

Path of Most Resistance

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

Just to f/u on your post made 4 days ago when the death count was 27... the incubation time is now determined to be 5.1 days, but the death count in CA as of 3/26 is at 65.

Over 100 now. 2k nationwide. The misinformation on this thread is disappointing.

 

[Path of Most Resistance]

Over 100 now. 2k nationwide. The misinformation on this thread is disappointing.

Can you tell us if Yaah is ok? Yaah is the moderator of the SDN Pathology Forum.

 

[D1b()4]

Over 100 now. 2k nationwide. The misinformation on this thread is disappointing.

Some of us try to fight this misinformation.

 

[KeratinPearls]

Over 100 now. 2k nationwide. The misinformation on this thread is disappointing.

Numbers rise quickly. What misinformation is there? He mentioned numbers from two days ago.

 

[D1b()4]

Numbers rise quickly. What misinformation is there? He mentioned numbers from two days ago.

I think he or she was referring to posts like "they have shut down California over 4 deaths" when there were more than 40 deaths in California at that time and posts falsely claiming that flu is more dangerous than COVID-19.

 

[LADoc00]

Was listening to some news, cant believe Trump called the travel ban SO EARLY. That was incredible. Perhaps the single greatest presidential move in all of post WWII America. California would be crushed under cases now given the massive travel flow from mainland China that typically occurs daily.

It is fascinating watching countries that called the travel ban "xenophobic" in the EU either getting crushed or about to be crushed with a 4-5x higher mortality rate than we do.

Meanwhile Biden's last video makes me think he needs immediate neurological care...wow...

Was Sanders in the end the better candidate?? (yet again..)

 

[D1b()4]

Was listening to some news, cant believe Trump called the travel ban SO EARLY. That was incredible.

I agree. I was impressed by this as well and was surprised when so many were critical of this correct move. Unfortunately, the rest of his response has been underwhelming so far.

 

[LADoc00]

I agree. I was impressed by this as well and was surprised when so many were critical of this correct move. Unfortunately, the rest of his response has been underwhelming so far.

Who would have said this was the right call? In the moment, I remember thinking "wow that is extreme" now Im thinking it was beyond prophetic. That will single handily win him re-election.

I can only imagine what a no warning, total meltdown situation my own state would be in now had tons and tons of infected travelers just flooded in from the end of Jan through end of Feb. when everyone realized this was serious and going to get very bad. Im having to go back and piece together all the news because this is moving so insanely fast and that just hit me like a meteorite.

 

[gbwillner]

Who would have said this was the right call? In the moment, I remember thinking "wow that is extreme" now Im thinking it was beyond prophetic. That will single handily win him re-election.

I can only imagine what a no warning, total meltdown situation my own state would be in now had tons and tons of infected travelers just flooded in from the end of Jan through end of Feb. when everyone realized this was serious and going to get very bad. Im having to go back and piece together all the news because this is moving so insanely fast and that just hit me like a meteorite.

Who would have said it was the right call? Literally everyone at the CDC. Glad he listened for once. I cant imagine another president who would not have made that same call. He also acquiesced on letting the sick passengers off that cruise ship against his own judgement.

 

[LADoc00]

Who would have said it was the right call? Literally everyone at the CDC. Glad he listened for once. I cant imagine another president who would not have made that same call. He also acquiesced on letting the sick passengers off that cruise ship against his own judgement.

Thanks I didnt realize the CDC agreed with the travel ban, I honestly didnt pay attention to it at the moment. Wonder what the final number American lives that will saved, perhaps tens or even hundreds of thousands.

 

[WEBB PINKERTON]

The thing about Trump is that he seems to listen and make decisions based on the last person he speaks too. I hope the CDC is last in line behind his other advisors.

I don't know why but i love watching Steve Mnuchin talk. Could be because he reminds me of Butthead from Beavis and Butthead.

 

[D1b()4]

I cant imagine another president who would not have made that same call.

I am not sure about that. Here is how Biden responded to the travel ban with China: “This is no time for Donald Trump’s record of hysteria and xenophobia, hysterical xenophobia, to uh, and fearmongering.”

Despite all the issues with Trump's handling of the crisis, I doubt Biden or Sanders would have done a better job.

 

[D1b()4]

Thanks I didnt realize the CDC agreed with the travel ban, I honestly didnt pay attention to it at the moment. Wonder what the final number American lives that will saved, perhaps tens or even hundreds of thousands.

Regardless, Trump deserves the credit for acting on the CDC recommendations and instituting the ban. I remember there were plenty of critics arguing against the ban. Some of the examples are listed below.

World Health Organization chief Tedros Adhanom Ghebreyesus said that widespread travel bans and restrictions weren’t needed to stop the outbreak and could "have the effect of increasing fear and stigma, with little public health benefit." American Civil Liberties Union has warned that the administration's measures infringe on civil rights. Bera, who chaired a House Foreign Affairs subcommittee hearing on the epidemic, said he’s concerned the Trump administration’s cautionary measures may be backfiring.