Feb 17th CBSE
Another resource you could consider looking into is Zanki. Zanki? I just looked into it. Its kind of flash cards? found a link in reddit. p.s thank you for your kind reply and considerationforums.studentdoctor.net
If surgeon overhead is 40-55%, how can associate offer be 40%? How can they make a profit?
5% would be crazy low/probably not worth it for any business owner. Profit margins would be extremely tight
These “management orgs” are really private equity backed by venture capital. Sit in on an earnings call and there is a bank behind the scenes willing to buy anything. They are literally trying to buy up the whole industry, the short term financials aren’t really a concern to them. Sure they have economies of scale which will lower purchasing prices but they are more interested in recapitalization or an eventual IPO.
I wouldn't say it is free money; you still have to manage them & your team as well. With a profit margin of 5%, the margins would be too close for comfort for me/not worth it if I had a private practice. But if you can get the profit margins higher 25% or so, it would be worth it to me.
How do we get into this business?
😂 I know haha; unfortunately, you'd probably need a couple of million to start up a real brand. Some people "bootstrap" it; either way, you will have a lot of sweat equity.
It is somewhat strange that EBITDA is such a focus in our field and not with other companies. I have a degree in economics so this was foreign to me when I started getting privy to the business side of things. PE seems to want growth and market share over anything more tangibly related to “real” value. DSOs often operate at a loss, I imagine they do it because they’re big enough to and are playing the long game with brand recognition or outlasting the private docs.
It’s a crazy amount
I’m expecting $250,000-300,000 for a starting contract.
That’s the standard for new grads. 250-300k. Aspen will pay more. Middle of nowhere America will pay more. But for a private practice in a desirable place to live, 250-300k is realistic.
I think that you’ll find that you’ll quickly outpace that in terms of your actual take home based on collections.
What's your partnership track look like?
Mind sharing the benchmarks? I've seen as high as 2 mill collections requirement, not sure if that was unreasonable or not tbh.
Mine is 80k month production average. Pretty reasonable I think. I feel pretty strongly that if partnership is what you really are wanting, then it needs to be spelled out to some extent when signing on. I wouldn’t trust someone who only vaguely says partnership talks can begin at some time in the future.
I am a little bit surprised of this as a general dentist. I made about 200k my first year out as an associate and then bought my own practice and was in the 600k+ range a few years after that. Meanwhile, a resident would be working 80-100 hours a week during this time for 60k a year or even paying for more medical school. I now understand what people used to say when they told me, "do not specialize for the financial reasons". There is truly a salary disparity that most dental students are not aware of, and thankfully you have shed light on this. To do 4-6 years of residency during your 20s/30s and then for 1-2 years be making less than or similar to an owner dentist, you have to be passionate about your field.
I’ve been told the opposite by GP owners and specialists. They recommended to specialize.
It must depend on if you are a decent GP versus a very run of the mill one. Based on the numbers advertised here as salaries/income, my friends and I that stayed in general dentistry had a better return on investment (and no loss of our 20s/30s being on call). For those who are in corporate mills as general dentists, specializing is certainly the advantage.
Thank you for the info. These are very realistic numbers in the market. Definitely not as high as people thought they’d be
How many days per week or per year?
I'm not sure about the details. He told me directly that an OMS won't show up for less than that. People talk about "desirable" areas being less pay. If they refer to more urban city centers, the solution would be to live 20 minutes outside of the city and then drive out a bit to a rural area to get paid. I've also heard OMS negotiate for up to 50% collections if not more. We're talking about a highly specialized skill of evaluating patient's medical condition, putting them to sleep, doing dentoalveolar surgery and bringing them back in less than 3o minutes. That is worth a lot.
For the specialist, many of these jobs are "gigs", or PRN. So you cannot extrapolate that daily rate to a full-time income.
I’ve personally never met a corporate OMS, but I find it hard to believe an OMS would be on standby and just come in as needed. You wouldn’t fool around a couple of shifts a month. You’d have it in stone by contract. This DSO owner I know says his surgeons make over a million a year. A rep for Treloar and Heisel, the preferred insurance provider by the AAOMS told me OMS make incredibly more than they’re GP counterparts, again echoing millions. The wealthiest GP I’ve known owned a group practice with many specialists. I’m sure he was upper 6 figs maybe into 7 figs. I know two periodontists that have got to be making a killing. One I think has one office with other specialists and one travels between his 2-3 offices. Every dentist can make a ton, but if you line up a football field of an OMS with sedations and wizzies, a GP with crowns, and a perio with LANAP or free gingival grafts, I’m pretty confident the OMS is coming out on top. Lol. But at some point you’ll reach a level of wealth it won’t matter.
You must weigh the opportunity costs here. Compare the 2 timelines:
I think this 350-400k mark with 30-35% collections is highway robbery. One quick look at indeed demonstrates numerous positions at higher compensation.
Lots of he said said she said... Are you a omfs a resident? Why are you trying to argue with people who are interviewing and have received legit offers?
Salaries online are always wrong (way too low) for almost all jobs, not just this one. It says on many websites that neurosurgeons make $200k - $300k, but obviously that is not true...
Bingo bango bongo.
How far from metro though
Not always true that you must live in the sticks to pull in a good salary, but there are always compromises. I’m in residency in a very desirable city, international airport, popular with tourists, etc. There is a job here saying an associate will likely hit 800k their first year. I happen to know one of the docs in the practice and tend to believe this. The catch? The office is open Monday through Saturday, you are required to work a few Saturdays per months, and even during the week it’s open longer than other offices. Monday, location, lifestyle. Pick 2. There are some unicorns out there, but for the most part..
Is the guy you know an associate or partner
“Desirable city” oxymoron
