OMS Starting Salary

[EdwardKim]

I know this topic may be sensitive to many people and I understand that there may not be a clear cut answer.

I am not here to ask questions to rise any emotional arguments or anything, so please I hope that does not happen.

I am seriously considering doing HPSP program for 4 years, and as a student who would like to specialize in OMS (I know it's early, but I felt that it was good to have a plan), I was wondering how much asset I would be generating in 4 years as a fresh out of residency OMS.

I am trying to calculate and look at the financial aspect of HPSP program, and if its really worth my years. If I am going to be able to pay off the educational debt in 4 years as a fresh OMS later on, I felt that there is little need to take on the HPSP program as it will make me lose out on that income for 4-5 years...

Thanks for your posts, guys.

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[UNR.Grad]

I know this topic may be sensitive to many people and I understand that there may not be a clear cut answer.

I am not here to ask questions to rise any emotional arguments or anything, so please I hope that does not happen.

I am seriously considering doing HPSP program for 4 years, and as a student who would like to specialize in OMS (I know it's early, but I felt that it was good to have a plan), I was wondering how much asset I would be generating in 4 years as a fresh out of residency OMS.

I am trying to calculate and look at the financial aspect of HPSP program, and if its really worth my years. If I am going to be able to pay off the educational debt in 4 years as a fresh OMS later on, I felt that there is little need to take on the HPSP program as it will make me lose out on that income for 4-5 years...

Thanks for your posts, guys.

I don't know about OMS salaries but if you're doing HPSP solely for the financial benefit then you'll be miserable during your payback years. HPSP is a huge commitment and in my opinion only worth it if serving your country means something to you, financially it could be argued either way (less debt vs. missing out on productive years in private practice).

 

[EdwardKim]

It is not only about the financial issues, but it definitely is a big part of taking on the HPSP. I do not mind the military lifestyle, and I do not mind being deployed. My father was in AF, and I also want to experience military lifestyle.

It is just that I would not go through military lifestyle, which could arguably provide lower quality of life compared to civilian lifestyle, if it is not beneficial in terms of finances.

That is why I have put up this thread, so I could calculate and gauge how much of financial advantage I would have, if any.

Again, I want to clarify that I do want to go into military, it's just that if that means losing out financially, I may not consider it.

The question is, how much productive income would I lose out.

Thank you for your post.

 

[armorshell]

Seems like if you're going to associate right out of the gate you're looking at around $180-200 plus benefits. Should go up pretty significantly after that, and once you partner/own, sky's the limit.

 

[EdwardKim]

Seems like if you're going to associate right out of the gate you're looking at around $180-200 plus benefits. Should go up pretty significantly after that, and once you partner/own, sky's the limit.

Thank you very much, Armorshell. Always so helpful.

That 180 to 200 is before tax, correct?

If I were to accrue roughly 300k of debt from dental school, considering that I will get paid 50k or so during OMS residency, how many years of student-like lifestyle should I pursue in order to get my debt out of the way?

Do you, personally think that 4 years of commitment into military, producing 60k a year as a military dentist, is worthwhile when losing out 4 years of production/patient pool build up if the educational debt would be close to 300k?

Thank you so much, it's great to hear from a perspective of a resident.

 

[servitup]

Financially, HPSP is not really a good deal. If you plan to pursue OMS, you will give back the military 4 years then do at least 4 years of residency. None of the guys from my program over the last few years have done worse than $200k starting out. 200-60=140x2=280 so your debt can be retired in 2 years of OMS practice easily if you live like a military dentist. And you will get started 4 years earlier.

 

[EdwardKim]

Thank you servitup,

Actually, I won't be 4 years behind.. Because although 4 years of military OMS training gives me 4 additional years of active duty obligations, these obligations can be paid off concurrently with the 4 years of active duty that I earned through HPSP program.

But since military requires that I work for at least 1 year as general military dentist, so I will have to do 4 years of dental + 1 year as military general dentist + 4 yrs of military OMS residency + then just serve 4 more years (because 3 yrs from HPSP left over and 3 years of service from OMS residency get paid off concurrently, leaving only 1 more yr of active duty from residency).

While working as a resident, the pay scale is around 90k with lots of non-taxable income and while working as a military oral surgeon, although I would get deployed pretty much 100%, the pay scale is well above 100k.

But at the same time, I do feel like getting out in the private practice and building up clientele pool few years earlier would really help me, and also not doing HPSP would give me more autonomy in choosing which residency to go in (4 yr. vs. 6 yr programs), or even other residency like ortho/pedo/endo that you cannot virtually get into as a HPSP recipient..

Also, servitup, in your opinion, 300k of debt is easily payable quickly by working in the civilian sector, right?

Do you think it's better to pay the principal off right away as much as you can, or consolidate over long period of time with lowest rate possible?

 

[briansle]

also check out the military dental forum, they'll give you a better breakdown to your questions.

 

[servitup]

I have only known a couple of military guys and they are at non-military residency programs but they all owed the military a year for every year of residency, therefore they owed like 8 years back at the end of residency. Also, there are relatively few military OMS residencies so who knows if they will even accept you. I know of a lot of military trained OMS who took years to get accepted to one of their residencies and had to be military GPs for years first. Tread carefully with recruiters. Not all of them are honest.

Most residents these days have a lot of debt and they all do fine paying it off. I have over $230k and am not the least bit worried about paying it off. If I would have been smarter in D school about my loans I would have less. Don't eat out, party, travel, buy gadgets, etc. and you can come in with less than the max loans.

 

[3rdmolarslayer]

the answer to the OP question...OMS starting salary

while the norm for an associate is around 200k (as previously stated), not everyone does that. if you want to hustle and chase the dollar you can take home around $1 million your first year out.

the keys to the bank are behind the second molar!

 

[armorshell]

the answer to the OP question...OMS starting salary

while the norm for an associate is around 200k (as previously stated), not everyone does that. if you want to hustle and chase the dollar you can take home around $1 million your first year out.

the keys to the bank are behind the second molar!

Um, really?

The ADA and aspen surveys that came out recently put the average OMS at around 1.4M in production and 40% overhead for a mean of around $480,000-500,000 take home per year.

It's pretty brash to say that you can drop right out of residency, open a practice with no business experience or referral base and then DOUBLE the take home of an average oral surgeon.

Talking to the guys that have been out for a few years, they say they generally end up producing a little over $1M their first year out. Of course, that's in an established practice as an associate with an established referral base. You could probably do better than $200k for your first year if you set up a shingle with a good deal of market research and an ideal community.

 

[InMyCrossHairs]

Armorshell, I am not agreeing with "the Slayer", but having done a considerable amount of due diligence, and researched the hell out of multiple job opportunities, I think the number you give on what Oral Surgeons are making may be low. I have not read the survey, so I dont know exactly who was included, but my experience, was none of the surgeons I talked to were doing under 750. Granted, they were all in business greater than 10 years, and most > 25 years, but they were all doing well.

As for making a million your first year, that is definitely not the norm. Not saying it cant be done, but it would be hard. Possibly if you sell your soul to a dental mill, you could get closer, but I dont have any offer that would allow me to do that.

The thing I found most disheartening was during the initial process, the surgeons bragged about income, and then when it came down to talking salary and compensation, they all cried poverty and whined about the economy, competition, changing referral patterns from dentists and so on.

I hope I find that million dollar first year salary, but what I have signed up for, is far from that.

 

[drgoro]

From being around ppl that have recently been out,..200K is a given, north of that is how you negotiate. 1 million first year out is lofty..300-400K is doable if you ***** yourself and become a tooth jockey (nothing wrong with either..lol), the beauty is you make of it what you want. 150-185 is what one might expect coming into academics, and even then, things like call days and faculty practice, grants come into play, making that number somewhat fluff.

I would get bored doing teeth all day.

 

[armorshell]

Armorshell, I am not agreeing with "the Slayer", but having done a considerable amount of due diligence, and researched the hell out of multiple job opportunities, I think the number you give on what Oral Surgeons are making may be low. I have not read the survey, so I dont know exactly who was included, but my experience, was none of the surgeons I talked to were doing under 750. Granted, they were all in business greater than 10 years, and most > 25 years, but they were all doing well.

I believe that these surveys, like all surveys, suffer from bias and are only as good as the sample dictates. However, I'm more inclined to offer advice to others based on hard data than anecdotes that I've gathered.

Also, I personally would consider a salary of $500,000 a year considerably better than just "doing well", and >$750 in the range of "jiminy jillickers radioactive man!"

 

[armorshell]

150-185 is what one might expect coming into academics, and even then, things like call days and faculty practice, grants come into play, making that number somewhat fluff.

Also benefits, retirement matching, paid travel, speaking gigs, stipend for academic positions (Program director), etc...

 

[InMyCrossHairs]

I actually feel stupid for discussing salary. This really should remain relatively unknown and obscure.

 

[EdwardKim]

I actually feel stupid for discussing salary. This really should remain relatively unknown and obscure.

I apologize for bringing this topic up.. So wise men, if we assume that a fresh OMS is making 200k, that is working as an associate, right?

How does overhead work in this case, and how much would he be taking in each year?

Can he pay back 300k loan (may be bigger because during 6 yrs of residency, it accrues, right?) in few years if he lived like a student?

 

[Localnative]

worthless query, and worthless thread based on speculation

salaries will vary from state to state, region to region. Want to work in New York City? You'll be paid sh-t after going through 6 years of hard labor. (I work there right now... 175-200,000 starting. And thats working in a heavy insurance based clinic). Want to work in Fargo, North Dakota? You'll be making a hell of alot more but living in relative isolation.

Economically, everyone is getting crushed right now, even the oral surgeons. As an associate, don't expect too much your first year. Texas is taking some hits, California- $500 million budget cut which will affect private practice guys, New York and Florida- very competitive... blah blah. The list goes on.

Don't mean to paint a bleak portrait regarding compensation. But worry less about salary and focus more on learning about oral surgery and the wonderful career it is.... beyond the monetary perks. Even private practice has its tough days (some tougher than my worst days in residency) and its been my love for the profession thats gotten me through.

GL.

 

[3rdmolarslayer]

I believe that these surveys, like all surveys, suffer from bias and are only as good as the sample dictates. However, I'm more inclined to offer advice to others based on hard data than anecdotes that I've gathered.

Also, I personally would consider a salary of $500,000 a year considerably better than just "doing well", and >$750 in the range of "jiminy jillickers radioactive man!"

I agree. I am not regurg figure from some websites or anectodal stories from friends. These are MY experiences shortly out of residency.
If you join an existing oral surgery practice, of course you are only going to make 200-250k per year. What owner would pay you more as an associate?
Thing is...there is a big shift going on now. GPs are not referring out nearly as much, if anything. Instead they hire OMS to come to their practice and treat the pts there, hence getting some of the pie.
While this is not good for traditional private practice OMS guys, this is great for us hustlers that just go chase the dollar!

 

[drgoro]

I agree. I am not regurg figure from some websites or anectodal stories from friends. These are MY experiences shortly out of residency.
If you join an existing oral surgery practice, of course you are only going to make 200-250k per year. What owner would pay you more as an associate?
Thing is...there is a big shift going on now. GPs are not referring out nearly as much, if anything. Instead they hire OMS to come to their practice and treat the pts there, hence getting some of the pie.
While this is not good for traditional private practice OMS guys, this is great for us hustlers that just go chase the dollar!

Kidding me? Thats been going on for the last 20 yrs..you just got wind of it now, that's all.

Reminds me of that comcast commercial.

 

[ItsGavinC]

Armorshell, I am not agreeing with "the Slayer", but having done a considerable amount of due diligence, and researched the hell out of multiple job opportunities, I think the number you give on what Oral Surgeons are making may be low.

I have no evidence of it, but I also think the $180-200k number for a first year associate is low. Pedo associates start at more than that, so that's what I'm basing my thoughts on.

 

[armorshell]

I have no evidence of it, but I also think the $180-200k number for a first year associate is low. Pedo associates start at more than that, so that's what I'm basing my thoughts on.

Straight from my chief's mouth. I was a little surprised too but supposedly that number goes up significantly in the preceding years. Maybe it's just because he has an MD though

 

[ItsGavinC]

Straight from my chief's mouth. I was a little surprised too but supposedly that number goes up significantly in the preceding years. Maybe it's just because he has an MD though

Still seems low. Geography plays into it of course.