One and a half year Postbac Program. Any advice is appreciated!

[lzhang]

Hi guys,

I just graduated in spring 2016 with a major in mechanical engineering. I have a 3.36 overall GPA and 3.7 science GPA. I am admitted to the Postbac Program at Columbia and planning to take the accelerated track so that I can finish all prereqs by spring 2018 and apply in order to matriculate for fall 2019. I have shadowed at two clinics for almost three months prior to my decision stepping into medical field, and been doing a genetics research from which I am looking forward to a publication. However I am lacking a lot of clinic volunteering and compared to some second-year Postbac students who made their switch after couple of years of working experience, I did not really get a job after graduation.

I am confident in boosting up my GPA through Postbac classes and hopefully will nail the MCAT but according to a spreadsheet provide by AAMC, given a close to 517/39-45 (new/old) on MCAT, with my GPA I would still only have 50%-60% getting into med school. So I am really wondering what can make me stand out in this 3.36 v 517/39-45 group. Is it volunteering, shadowing, or doing research. will anything I mention that I have done give me a leg up? I am thinking taking EMT or Medical scribe classes at the same time so that I can get some direct patient contact experience after being certified.

Thank you for reading all these crab and again any advise is greatly appreciated!!

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[Dullhead]

MD only or is DO OK?

 

[lzhang]

MD only or is DO OK?

Hi Dullhead, I am definitely fine with both

 

[Dullhead]

Hi Dullhead, I am definitely fine with both

This is just my opinion, but your GPA is perfectly fine for DO, even though it is low for MD. If you head on over to pre-osteo and spend a few hours browsing some of the school-specific threads, you'll see that 3.36/3.7 and a 505-508 will easily get you into multiple schools provided you have your checkboxing done. Some even got in with 496-497 and were not URM. This assumes that you already have all your pre-reqs completed. Even if you do not, you could take them DIY at CC or 4-yr.

I don't know too much about Columbia, but I have read that it can be grade deflating. And you're trying to accelerate it too. If DO is OK, you could spend the next year on ECs while working, and still be able to apply 2018. If you also happen to score in the 515+ range, you still have a shot at MD although it might be in the 50% possibility range. Check some of the other threads in this forum. A link to the AAMC grid for GPA/MCAT and race is available and will let you estimate your chances for MD if you want to guess your MCAT...

 

[Dullhead]

One example for you.

https://forums.studentdoctor.net/threads/do-adcoms-look-at-cgpa-and-sgpa-by-semester.1204516/

 

[DarklingThrush]

A 3.38 has a low probability of MD admissions and I don't think anyone at DO or low-ranking MD objects to community colleges.

Columbia is 110k, literally every single member of the Columbia postbac administration and faculty (except physics) is Jewish, and they have grade deflation. Moreover they have a MANDATORY, WEEK-LONG no rape seminar that includes telling you how often its OK to text your SO stemming from the "carry that weight" drama, in which we had 4 years of complete hysteria over a he-said/she-said about whether consent was given for anal sex in midst of consensual oral vaginal sex.

Let the good and very (very!) earnest people of Columbia find some other sap to write them 110k check for what's on Khan academy.

I'm not really sure what the religion of the faculty, or a rape seminar has to do with the quality of instruction at Columbia, but including only relevant information for this topic, there is grade deflation, and it is very expensive. You are better off saving your money, and doing a more DIY type approach. Columbia is a VERY large program, and they make it seem like they have a lot of linkages, but if you read the fine print, the conditions are typically a 3.6+ cGPA from before the program, on top of a very high program GPA as well.. So, if linkage is one of the deciding factors for you, I would opt out. You won't meet cGPA requirements.

 

[lzhang]

One example for you.

https://forums.studentdoctor.net/threads/do-adcoms-look-at-cgpa-and-sgpa-by-semester.1204516/

Thank you Dullhead again. But my other questions are what really makes me stand out compared to other candidates regardless of admission to DO or MD programs. GPA and MCAT are something I can work on by myself but volunteering, shadowing and other things are more off the chart so I need more information on them. I really want to know overall what I can do extracurricular will make me the admitted 50% of the applicant pool. If accelerated track is not for someone in my situation then I can change my decision trying to fast forward it. I am just really worried about competing with the other applicants.

 

[lzhang]

A 3.38 has a low probability of MD admissions and I don't think anyone at DO or low-ranking MD objects to community colleges.

Columbia is 110k, literally every single member of the Columbia postbac administration and faculty (except physics) is Jewish, and they have grade deflation. Moreover they have a MANDATORY, WEEK-LONG no rape seminar that includes telling you how often its OK to text your SO stemming from the "carry that weight" drama, in which we had 4 years of complete hysteria over a he-said/she-said about whether consent was given for anal sex in midst of consensual oral vaginal sex.

Let the good and very (very!) earnest people of Columbia find some other sap to write them 110k check for what's on Khan academy.

Thank you first of all for your response. I am fullly aware of the tuition to be honest with you Miami_Postbac. Technically I only need 30.5 credits so 50k in tuition which I know is still costly and can be done way cheaper at a CC. And the advising has been really not responsive. But after going through orientation, I feel like they do prepare their students well and I witness the close relationship between some second-year students with my adviser. The columbia program is just too controversial because people just debate too much over its legitimacy not only in this forum but also among people i know. But again it is my effort which eventually counts toward my admission. Please advise on what I can do to boost up my chance of admission to DO or MD program. Thanks!

 

[lzhang]

I'm not really sure what the religion of the faculty, or a rape seminar has to do with the quality of instruction at Columbia, but including only relevant information for this topic, there is grade deflation, and it is very expensive. You are better off saving your money, and doing a more DIY type approach. Columbia is a VERY large program, and they make it seem like they have a lot of linkages, but if you read the fine print, the conditions are typically a 3.6+ cGPA from before the program, on top of a very high program GPA as well.. So, if linkage is one of the deciding factors for you, I would opt out. You won't meet cGPA requirements.

I was initially aiming at the linkage program but now I did realize it is impossible for me. With that being said, my opinion before I even started applying for Columbia is that I am already at a disadvantage as a non-traditional student (may be not), so I should prepare myself as well as possible in order to be competitive you know. So if I am missing a committee letter which I believe is a weighting factor, then I will be more advantageous?
So I really want to do something which can sort of compensate for my disadvantage. Again regardless a DO or MD program, what will be a great experience to help my admission and please include my research and shadowing experience into account. Thank you DarklingThrush!

 

[Dullhead]

Thank you Dullhead again. But my other questions are what really makes me stand out compared to other candidates regardless of admission to DO or MD programs. GPA and MCAT are something I can work on by myself but volunteering, shadowing and other things are more off the chart so I need more information on them. I really want to know overall what I can do extracurricular will make me the admitted 50% of the applicant pool. If accelerated track is not for someone in my situation then I can change my decision trying to fast forward it. I am just really worried about competing with the other applicants.

The 50% only applies to MD. Your GPA is 100% competitive for DO. All you need is standard checkboxing over the next year. Research is not important for DO, so you don't even have to think about that. Get yourself 200+ hours of volunteering and 80+ hours of shadowing and you'll easily make it to a mid tier DO. I think one year is plenty of time to get this done and you don't need a Columbia postbacc for that. Just my opinion. And a 505 MCAT will make you 100% competitive.

If you happen to score 515+, you can still throw in some MD apps and hope for that 50% chance.

 

[lzhang]

The 50% only applies to MD. Your GPA is 100% competitive for DO. All you need is standard checkboxing over the next year. Research is not important for DO, so you don't even have to think about that. Get yourself 200+ hours of volunteering and 80+ hours of shadowing and you'll easily make it to a mid tier DO. I think one year is plenty of time to get this done and you don't need a Columbia postbacc for that. Just my opinion. And a 505 MCAT will make you 100% competitive.

If you happen to score 515+, you can still throw in some MD apps and hope for that 50% chance.

Thank you so much Dullhead. May I know a little about your background so that I know who I am referencing from.

 

[DarklingThrush]

I was initially aiming at the linkage program but now I did realize it is impossible for me. With that being said, my opinion before I even started applying for Columbia is that I am already at a disadvantage as a non-traditional student (may be not), so I should prepare myself as well as possible in order to be competitive you know. So if I am missing a committee letter which I believe is a weighting factor, then I will be more advantageous?
So I really want to do something which can sort of compensate for my disadvantage. Again regardless a DO or MD program, what will be a great experience to help my admission and please include my research and shadowing experience into account. Thank you DarklingThrush!

A committee letter is possible through a DIY postbac. I am working with the premed program at my state school, and they will be organizing a committee letter for me. My advice to you is to enroll as a 2nd degree seeking student. This way, you get priority enrollment (due to your prior credits, you're considered a senior), and you will get to work with an advisor. You can meet with the advisor about opportunities offered to premed students. My school had a separate premed advisor who organizes the committee letter. Also, your goal as a lower cGPA applicant is to get as high of grades as possible. This means setting yourself up for success. You know Columbia has well established grade deflatemet, so that is a school you should avoid. Do your research and pick a school that sets you up for the best possible chance of getting a 4.0. I understand the appeal of doing a postbac program.. I got into multiple programs, but financially and class wise, my best chances at medical school were doing a DIY approach. Also, 50 credits at a state school will run about 20k depending on your location. Much cheaper than 50k at Columbia. Lastly, while Columbia is an incredible institution, the postbac program is not on the same level as Goucher, Bryn Mawr, or even JHU. If you're looking for Columbia to provide prestige to your application, medical schools know which formal programs are considered the best, and it's not always about the name.

 

[Bru]

Some interesting replies in this thread. Couple of points:

-If you are already in NYC, I would also consider NYU or Hunter.
-I know there is a tendency to try and rush things through and get started but really you want to apply with the best application possible. If it takes an extra year to get the necessary clinical experience then you should do so IMO.
-I have heard some talk that adcoms are aware the most people with an engineering background have overall lower GPAs than others and take this into account
-Your actual GPA would factor in your postbacc credits which could bring you up to ~3.5 depending how many undergrad credits you have and how many credits you take.

I honestly don't think your situation is that bad but it will need some work and time to make your application up to snuff.

 

[Dullhead]

Thank you so much Dullhead. May I know a little about your background so that I know who I am referencing from.

Foreign bachelor's, US master's both in engineering. Have been taking classes at CC - taken about 70 credits so far. Started in 2010. Probably will apply this year.

 

[Ad2b]

Your GPA is fine for MD schools as long as you're not aiming for Top 10, or if you are, you rock the MCAT (518+). But you will need to get very solid grades now as well.

Also, remember that the 50% NOT getting into medical school with your stats probably has more to do with other things than GPA/MCAT.

Interview skills
Volunteering
Clinical work
Interview skils
Interview skills
Interview skills

A family member told me of someone showing up to their interview in flip-flops (nice Tori Burch flip flops but FLIP FLOPS!)... didn't get accepted

Sidenote on MCAT: don't assume you can get any sort of score until you start practicing the passages and getting real practice scores from the AAMC materials. And don't use a presupposition for making this decision.

Best of luck!

 

[lzhang]

A committee letter is possible through a DIY postbac. I am working with the premed program at my state school, and they will be organizing a committee letter for me. My advice to you is to enroll as a 2nd degree seeking student. This way, you get priority enrollment (due to your prior credits, you're considered a senior), and you will get to work with an advisor. You can meet with the advisor about opportunities offered to premed students. My school had a separate premed advisor who organizes the committee letter. Also, your goal as a lower cGPA applicant is to get as high of grades as possible. This means setting yourself up for success. You know Columbia has well established grade deflatemet, so that is a school you should avoid. Do your research and pick a school that sets you up for the best possible chance of getting a 4.0. I understand the appeal of doing a postbac program.. I got into multiple programs, but financially and class wise, my best chances at medical school were doing a DIY approach. Also, 50 credits at a state school will run about 20k depending on your location. Much cheaper than 50k at Columbia. Lastly, while Columbia is an incredible institution, the postbac program is not on the same level as Goucher, Bryn Mawr, or even JHU. If you're looking for Columbia to provide prestige to your application, medical schools know which formal programs are considered the best, and it's not always about the name.

Thank you very much. I always thought Postbac program is a must in order to get a committee letter. Here is another question I have if anyone here has an answer. How helpful it is to become a PA prior to application to Med School.

 

[lzhang]

Some interesting replies in this thread. Couple of points:

-If you are already in NYC, I would also consider NYU or Hunter.
-I know there is a tendency to try and rush things through and get started but really you want to apply with the best application possible. If it takes an extra year to get the necessary clinical experience then you should do so IMO.
-I have heard some talk that adcoms are aware the most people with an engineering background have overall lower GPAs than others and take this into account
-Your actual GPA would factor in your postbacc credits which could bring you up to ~3.5 depending how many undergrad credits you have and how many credits you take.

I honestly don't think your situation is that bad but it will need some work and time to make your application up to snuff.

Right, I have always heard about the leniency on Engineering GPA by the adcoms but it is never officially confirmed so I am getting more worried about my GPA. I totally agree with you on taking my time and collect as much experience as possible for the best application so I am thinking taking a detour to apply for PA. For PA I will need one year or two of prereqs, one gap year and two year of the program. For post bac I need two years of prereqs and hopefully one gap year, meaning that I get into a Med school upon my first shot. But PA gives me a degree while Postbac or DIY does not secure anything. Doing PA however does require other things, especially direct patient contact experience and etc so I am planning to become a EMT. How do you think Bru

 

[lzhang]

Your GPA is fine for MD schools as long as you're not aiming for Top 10, or if you are, you rock the MCAT (518+). But you will need to get very solid grades now as well.

Also, remember that the 50% NOT getting into medical school with your stats probably has more to do with other things than GPA/MCAT.

Interview skills
Volunteering
Clinical work
Interview skils
Interview skills
Interview skills

A family member told me of someone showing up to their interview in flip-flops (nice Tori Burch flip flops but FLIP FLOPS!)... didn't get accepted

Sidenote on MCAT: don't assume you can get any sort of score until you start practicing the passages and getting real practice scores from the AAMC materials. And don't use a presupposition for making this decision.

Best of luck!

Haha I think they prefer Clarks flip flops. Speaking off MCAT, I was told that I can practice on verbal section before I start any prereqs? Thank you Ad2b

 

[lzhang]

Foreign bachelor's, US master's both in engineering. Have been taking classes at CC - taken about 70 credits so far. Started in 2010. Probably will apply this year.

Thank you and Best of luck to you!!

 

[Dullhead]

Thank you very much. I always thought Postbac program is a must in order to get a committee letter. Here is another question I have if anyone here has an answer. How helpful it is to become a PA prior to application to Med School.

Doing PA would be a mistake.

 

[DarklingThrush]

Thank you very much. I always thought Postbac program is a must in order to get a committee letter. Here is another question I have if anyone here has an answer. How helpful it is to become a PA prior to application to Med School.

That is an absolute waste of your time and money and could actually hurt your chances. You then have to explain to medical schools why you are switching from being a PA to being a doctor, and that is not always taken well. I have read that nurses often have a harder time when it comes to applying MD as well.

 

[Bru]

Right, I have always heard about the leniency on Engineering GPA by the adcoms but it is never officially confirmed so I am getting more worried about my GPA. I totally agree with you on taking my time and collect as much experience as possible for the best application so I am thinking taking a detour to apply for PA. For PA I will need one year or two of prereqs, one gap year and two year of the program. For post bac I need two years of prereqs and hopefully one gap year, meaning that I get into a Med school upon my first shot. But PA gives me a degree while Postbac or DIY does not secure anything. Doing PA however does require other things, especially direct patient contact experience and etc so I am planning to become a EMT. How do you think Bru

Do PA if you want to be a PA. It is not really a good substitute route.

Although honestly we had people enrolled in my postbacc who decided at the end to do the PA route. At some level you don't really have to decide immediately. There is conserved classwork and clinical hours conserved across both path so you can so hedge some. Take the same courses and get the lay of land and make your decision based on more info.

 

[columbiapostbacguides]

I’m a student in Columbia’s postbac program, and I want to echo Ad2b’s comments. Columbia offers all students a password-protected portal with hundreds of postings every week about clinical volunteering opportunities around New York (volunteering is actually required in addition to coursework, which serves to make your application stronger). The advisers offer weekly sessions to teach students about interviewing skills, so you will leave the program with a good understanding of how to approach the application process.