Online pre med classes??

[SyrianHero]

Hi everyone, I have heard that some non trads who work full time take the pre med classes online. Is this a good way to go and what are some credible sites to do so?

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[theSmurfette]

Remember not all medical schools accept online coursework especially the sciences. You also will have a hard time to complete the science requirements online. Regardless of whether the school accepts online coursework or not, you need to make sure that the school has REGIONAL accreditation. If a school says that they are nationally accredited, RUN!! National accreditation means nothing in this country. You want a school to be accredited by one of the accrediting bodies on this list. http://www.chea.org/Directories/regional.asp

 

[SyrianHero]

Any other thoughts?? I would love more input in general or from ppl who have gone through some online classes themselves and successfully applied to med school

 

[aspiringDR24]

I am currently enrolled in an online chemistry class. The class is online but the lab of course is in person. I would hope that the school I am taking it at is accredited given that the university has an allopathic medical school. I am trying to get out of this class and change it for one that is a standard class instead of online though. I think it would be more difficult to take chemistry for the first time online as opposed to having it taught to me more traditionally.

 

[Freesia88]

The general consensus seems to be to avoid them as much as possible. To put things in perspective, some schools will not even accept in person classes because they come from community colleges, for example.

Don't do anything that might cast your application in a negative light. If they absolutely cannot be avoided, then you might have to tailor the schools you apply to reflect that fact.

 

[HipChick]

Call the schools you are interested in the most, and do what you need to do. Most schools are very helpful and honestly most of the schools i've called dont care. they want the grades. also, if you do online through your own or another university (versus say phoenix) most times it doesnt even designate online or not.

Just do you research thats all.

 

[SyrianHero]

Great advice, but are there specific schools that have well established online pre med courses that you know of?

 

[EE12BMD]

Check the University of New England.... they have all the pre reqs online. There is also another SUNY (State University of New York) school I saw with online pre-reqs. Again, check with the schools you plan to apply to, to find out if they will accept online classes....

 

[HipChick]

I thought oakland university in michigan had some great online courses.

 

[MDOnlyWillDo]

Can you take night classes? Where I live there are junior colleges with all the needed pre-med classes at night, plus weekend and hybrid classes (meet once for the lab, rest online). I know people like to dismiss community college classes, but my local med school (a top-10 school) says they don't care about cc vs university.

 

[Prncssbuttercup]

University of MN has some, as well as the MNSCU system, all accredited, and they don't show as online, and they all also count for credit so you can get loans

 

[secretbeard]

Rather than start a new thread, I thought I'd just jump on this one. Any advice/input is appreciated.

My situation: I'm currently in the military as an officer for just under another two years. I'm at one of the country's worst bases so local schools are not an option for me. I plan on attending a formal post-bacc after my contract is up and moving to med school from there (not GPA-boosting, just didn't get the science prereqs during undergrad). My question lies with the typical math prereqs. I did a college credit program back in high-school which enabled me to skip math in college. That said, I doubt any med school would accept those math courses and even if they did, I remember nothing of it. So, seems that to meet the requirements of most schools, taking one semester of Calculus and one of Statistics is the best way to go.

I know the general consensus is to avoid online courses for prereqs (I'm the "education officer" for my unit and I admittedly cringe every time someone comes to me with plans for American Military University or National University). Given my situation and the fact that I'll be pushing 30 after my post-bacc, would it be acceptable to do just the Calc and Stats online? Another option is to do them in-person during my glide year after post-bacc, but that means they're not complete when I start submitting applications.

I feel like schools mainly want the sciences done in person and the math may not be such a big deal. Also, given my circumstances, I could probably play the "I did them online while serving in Afghanistan" card and talk my way past it if anyone did frown upon it (wouldn't be a lie, I deploy next week).

So, should I try to do the math online while I'm still in the military, delay my med school longer to get it done, or do it during glide year?

-Thanks

 

[TriagePreMed]

Can you take night classes? Where I live there are junior colleges with all the needed pre-med classes at night, plus weekend and hybrid classes (meet once for the lab, rest online). I know people like to dismiss community college classes, but my local med school (a top-10 school) says they don't care about cc vs university.

The only requirement is in person, so the specific time the course runs (day or night) makes no difference.

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[TriagePreMed]

Rather than start a new thread, I thought I'd just jump on this one. Any advice/input is appreciated.

My situation: I'm currently in the military as an officer for just under another two years. I'm at one of the country's worst bases so local schools are not an option for me. I plan on attending a formal post-bacc after my contract is up and moving to med school from there (not GPA-boosting, just didn't get the science prereqs during undergrad). My question lies with the typical math prereqs. I did a college credit program back in high-school which enabled me to skip math in college. That said, I doubt any med school would accept those math courses and even if they did, I remember nothing of it. So, seems that to meet the requirements of most schools, taking one semester of Calculus and one of Statistics is the best way to go.

I know the general consensus is to avoid online courses for prereqs (I'm the "education officer" for my unit and I admittedly cringe every time someone comes to me with plans for American Military University or National University). Given my situation and the fact that I'll be pushing 30 after my post-bacc, would it be acceptable to do just the Calc and Stats online? Another option is to do them in-person during my glide year after post-bacc, but that means they're not complete when I start submitting applications.

I feel like schools mainly want the sciences done in person and the math may not be such a big deal. Also, given my circumstances, I could probably play the "I did them online while serving in Afghanistan" card and talk my way past it if anyone did frown upon it (wouldn't be a lie, I deploy next week).

So, should I try to do the math online while I'm still in the military, delay my med school longer to get it done, or do it during glide year?

-Thanks

If the course is a prerequisite and the school doesn't take online courses, it doesn't matter if it is math or physics/etc. The course will simply not be accepted.

Using the military card will not be to your advantage. Rules are rules, and coming from the military, one would expect you to be rigorous about following them.

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[secretbeard]

I agree the military shouldn't be an advantage, but there's way too many organizations that bend their rules for veterans. Anyway, I guess I'll see if I can get a ruling from several schools and see if I find the bulk of them leaning one way or the other.

Thanks for the input!

 

[EE12BMD]

Rather than start a new thread, I thought I'd just jump on this one. Any advice/input is appreciated.

My situation: I'm currently in the military as an officer for just under another two years. I'm at one of the country's worst bases so local schools are not an option for me. I plan on attending a formal post-bacc after my contract is up and moving to med school from there (not GPA-boosting, just didn't get the science prereqs during undergrad). My question lies with the typical math prereqs. I did a college credit program back in high-school which enabled me to skip math in college. That said, I doubt any med school would accept those math courses and even if they did, I remember nothing of it. So, seems that to meet the requirements of most schools, taking one semester of Calculus and one of Statistics is the best way to go.

I know the general consensus is to avoid online courses for prereqs (I'm the "education officer" for my unit and I admittedly cringe every time someone comes to me with plans for American Military University or National University). Given my situation and the fact that I'll be pushing 30 after my post-bacc, would it be acceptable to do just the Calc and Stats online? Another option is to do them in-person during my glide year after post-bacc, but that means they're not complete when I start submitting applications.

I feel like schools mainly want the sciences done in person and the math may not be such a big deal. Also, given my circumstances, I could probably play the "I did them online while serving in Afghanistan" card and talk my way past it if anyone did frown upon it (wouldn't be a lie, I deploy next week).

So, should I try to do the math online while I'm still in the military, delay my med school longer to get it done, or do it during glide year?

-Thanks

There are some schools - CC as well as 4 yr colleges that offer online classes with no indication on the transcript as to being an online class. You can check with the local CC where you're at to find out if its identified as an online class on the transcript. About the whole CC vs 4 yr university deal - some schools don't place alot of emphasis on where you did your prer-eqs, plus this it's the math pre-req, not one of the lab science pre-reqs. In Texas they don't really care if you took at CC or 4yr... Some top tier universities do...

 

[MDOnlyWillDo]

The only requirement is in person, so the specific time the course runs (day or night) makes no difference.

I was actually positing this to the OP as an alternative to online classes.

But what med school requires in-person classes? How do you prove that? My transcript doesn't separate online from in-person.

 

[MDOnlyWillDo]

There are some schools - CC as well as 4 yr colleges that offer online classes with no indication on the transcript as to being an online class. You can check with the local CC where you're at to find out if its identified as an online class on the transcript. About the whole CC vs 4 yr university deal - some schools don't place alot of emphasis on where you did your prer-eqs, plus this it's the math pre-req, not one of the lab science pre-reqs. In Texas they don't really care if you took at CC or 4yr... Some top tier universities do...

Agreed. My CC doesn't distinguish online classes and I don't of any that do. My state school (a top tier school) doesn't care if you do your pre-reqs at CC, either.

 

[TriagePreMed]

I was actually positing this to the OP as an alternative to online classes.

But what med school requires in-person classes? How do you prove that? My transcript doesn't separate online from in-person.

Could you get away with online classes that don't reflect on the transcript as such? Sure, but you must also keep in mind that if in the future these are somehow "discovered," you could be dismissed from the school or your degree rescinded. If that's not a concern, at least keep in mind that any discrepancy, such as living in Oregon when your classes are in southern Nevada, could lead someone to realize that something must be going on. I only mention it because I've seen people do that.

 

[EE12BMD]

Could you get away with online classes that don't reflect on the transcript as such? Sure, but you must also keep in mind that if in the future these are somehow "discovered," you could be dismissed from the school or your degree rescinded. If that's not a concern, at least keep in mind that any discrepancy, such as living in Oregon when your classes are in southern Nevada, could lead someone to realize that something must be going on. I only mention it because I've seen people do that.

This would be a problem if the med school in subject cares..Some don't. Now a 'for profit' online university is a different animal..
Op needs to read the faq's or contact the schools he plan on applying to...

For Texas schools, see Q&A from TDMSAS site FAQ..

"Do you accept Advanced Placement (AP) or College Level Examination Program (CLEP) courses?
AP, CLEP, distance learning and correspondence courses are all accepted if reported on an accredited college transcript."

And this is for required courses! Distance learning is what it is...distance learning...off campus...

 

[MDOnlyWillDo]

Could you get away with online classes that don't reflect on the transcript as such? Sure, but you must also keep in mind that if in the future these are somehow "discovered," you could be dismissed from the school or your degree rescinded. If that's not a concern, at least keep in mind that any discrepancy, such as living in Oregon when your classes are in southern Nevada, could lead someone to realize that something must be going on. I only mention it because I've seen people do that.

Are you suggesting that online credit classes offered at accredited CCs or even universities are somehow bogus? Or are you speaking about the for-profit diploma mills? Because you really do need to distinguish between the two.

Online classes offered through an established college or university are not bogus classes to be feared.

 

[TriagePreMed]

Are you suggesting that online credit classes offered at accredited CCs or even universities are somehow bogus? Or are you speaking about the for-profit diploma mills? Because you really do need to distinguish between the two.

Online classes offered through an established college or university are not bogus classes to be feared.

I'm saying that a school that says no online and you actively deceive them with online courses, you could be dismissed or your degree rescinded. It has nothing to do with taking it at Harvard vs Joe Bob for Profit College.

 

[TriagePreMed]

This would be a problem if the med school in subject cares..Some don't. Now a 'for profit' online university is a different animal..
Op needs to read the faq's or contact the schools he plan on applying to...

For Texas schools, see Q&A from TDMSAS site FAQ..

"Do you accept Advanced Placement (AP) or College Level Examination Program (CLEP) courses?
AP, CLEP, distance learning and correspondence courses are all accepted if reported on an accredited college transcript."

And this is for required courses! Distance learning is what it is...distance learning...off campus...

This is correct. Some schools do not care about online courses, but I assumed the person was asking because they intended to apply to a university that did care but was going to do online anyway because they could get away with the fact that the transcript wouldn't reflect it.

 

[jl lin]

I'm saying that a school that says no online and you actively deceive them with online courses, you could be dismissed or your degree rescinded. It has nothing to do with taking it at Harvard vs Joe Bob for Profit College.

Trying to understand something. If curriculum and degree awarded is the same, what difference does it make? If its an accredited university, it must stand by its degrees, regardless of the mode of learning.

 

[TriagePreMed]

Trying to understand something. If curriculum and degree awarded is the same, what difference does it make? If its an accredited university, it must stand by its degrees, regardless of the mode of learning.

I don't make the rules, so I won't speculate what their concerns are. All I'm saying is that when the rules exist, they are either followed or there could be consequences.

 

[MDOnlyWillDo]

I'm saying that a school that says no online and you actively deceive them with online courses, you could be dismissed or your degree rescinded. It has nothing to do with taking it at Harvard vs Joe Bob for Profit College.

Which medical schools state no online classes?

 

[ohhtobepremed]

Some Med. Schools only take the courses from traditional, in-class w/lab sciences. I guess it depends on what med school you're trying to get into. They can evaluate your classes.

And a lot of us have made mistakes in college, as long as you work really really really hard, I'm sure you can make it!

 

[TriagePreMed]

Which medical schools state no online classes?

Check the msar. About 80%+ of schools do not accept online courses.

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[MDOnlyWillDo]

Check the msar. About 80%+ of schools do not accept online courses.

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80%? Did you calculate that figure?

 

[ElephantRevival]

Even the figures in the MSAR can be misleading. If I saw a school that said no online classes, I would check to see if they mean the pre-med lab science reqs or no online classes at all. For instance, I know of a few schools that will accept classes online so long as they aren't the science courses that require labs. They might not necessarily care how you got your degree, where you stats or calc class came from, etc., because they don't require labs. If you have an MSAR entry that indicates "no" for a particular school, I'd jump on their website or shoot their admissions/registrar office an email. And yes, I would think that med schools would be very flexible when it comes to military deployments (whether that's fair or not is of little concern if it's the current reality). I did my stats course while in Iraq through Penn State, where I did almost half of my degree online. This was at the recommendation of or under the supervision of a few premed advisers. Now I'm in post bacc completing all the science courses that require labs in a brick and mortar institution. From what I hear, that's not a bad way to go. You have to do what you have to do, and if you can juggle full time or difficult classes while deployed, I think that speaks to something. Use it.

 

[TriagePreMed]

80%? Did you calculate that figure?

I estimated based on when I saw the MSAR because I had the same question a couple of years back. Again, I recommend going over the MSAR yourself for a more accurate answer.

 

[sausalito]

Someone mentioned UNECOM earlier. The Assistant Director of Recruitment and Alumni Services told me yesterday that their distance learning courses are generally accepted anywhere. This is what their site says though:

While most colleges, universities and professional schools, such as medical school, PA schools,Veterinary schools, Dental schools, etc., will accept distance credits, some still do not. Therefore, you are strongly advised to check with someone of authority at the school of your choice to be sure distance credits are accepted.

The cost per credit hour is $290. Then there are textbooks. I'd rather go to a cc. Here's UNECOM's online course site if you're still interested though: http://www.une.edu/com/online/

 

[ElephantRevival]

Someone mentioned UNECOM earlier. The Assistant Director of Recruitment and Alumni Services told me yesterday that their distance learning courses are generally accepted anywhere. This is what their site says though:



The cost per credit hour is $290. Then there are textbooks. I'd rather go to a cc. Here's UNECOM's online course site if you're still interested though: http://www.une.edu/com/online/

That's interesting. I haven't heard of this program. I know the website says the courses are accepted in a lot of schools, but has anyone actually heard anything good coming of completing the organic chem, or any other classes really, through this program? I just can't imagine that any school would accept them. If I'm wrong, please correct me.

 

[futuredoc331]

Bumping this. I know it's a little old.

Has anyone else heard much about success rates with UNE's post bacc? This would be my only shot at getting my prereqs done. Is there a list compiled anywhere of the schools that do and don't accept them?

Thanks in advance.

 

[ElephantRevival]

Still no replies. I guess they didn't go over so well with people?

 

[Psychonergic]

Another bump...I'm specifically interested in taking in the Organic 1 course. It was the admissions officials that told me about their post-bac courses to begin with, so they definitely are cool with them at UNE. Anybody know anything else?

 

[Psychonergic]

I just started UNECOM's online Organic Chemistry I class because I live in Hong Kong due to my husband's job.

The administration are really helpful and now they have online registration. I was a guinea pig and there were a lot of technical difficulties in June but everything worked out in the end. The cost is 1225 not including materials. The textbook is not great so I'm using another one, Khan academy videos and Organic Chemistry as a Second Language. The lab uses a good software but it was last updated in 2006 which bugs me a bit.

I'm grateful that there is an accredited university that offers these classes.

I will find out first hand next cycle if these pre-reqs are acceptable! I plan to take Biochem, re-take gen-chem and I might squeeze in Ochem II or genetics, all through UNECOM!

Thanks for the info! I'm also curious if you feel that they live up to their course description - meaning, do they do a good job incorporating other sciences, such as biochem, cell bio, physiology, etc, into the lecture?

 

[calisurfer19]

Which medical schools state no online classes?

Ironically USUHS doesn't take online courses if I'm not mistaken. With all the physician retention problems in the military, one would think they would make every effort to hire within so to speak and be accommodating to members' lack of educational choices due to location, military career, or family situation.

OP and all who serve, best of luck in your educational pursuits and for God's sake keep your head down whenever you get down range.

 

[Glycereine]

I actually really enjoyed the online Organic Chem I and II through UNE (DPPP 350 and 351) including the virtual labs.

I believe alot of med schools are accepting these as well now, but USUHS does not seem to be one of them so I'm about to retake both classes at a community college this fall and spring...

 

[chasingzion]

The general consensus seems to be to avoid them as much as possible. To put things in perspective, some schools will not even accept in person classes because they come from community colleges, for example.

I think its BS for med schools not to.accept classes from jr colleges.

 

[ForensicOdontology]

I'm currently taking Chem 1 and Bio 1 online. I have done some fairly deep research on the topic of online classes, and I've come to find that while there are some Med schools that will not accept the classes, they are not the majority -- the number is about 50/50. That said, I am looking to complete a DO, and already have a Masters Degree, so I am not so concerned about how the classes will reflect on my ability to handle a course load. I have also had my thought process confirmed by a few acceptance comity members here on SDN. That said, the classes at UNE do not show as Distance or Online, but the course numbers are different for DL and in person classes: In-person bio, for example, would show as BIO101, whereas DL BIO would show as BIO1010. The labs are actually completed by you, via a lab kit that you purchase if the class requires a lab. The School is regionally accredited, and the classes are credited as well -- they also have a DO school of their own. That said, the registration was amazing. The faculty and admin has been extremely helpful, and I have no qualms with their infrastructure. I will update occasionally to let you know how the classes are going. Hope this helps! Best.

 

[puppylatte]

I'm currently taking Chem 1 and Bio 1 online. I have done some fairly deep research on the topic of online classes, and I've come to find that while there are some Med schools that will not accept the classes, they are not the majority -- the number is about 50/50. That said, I am looking to complete a DO, and already have a Masters Degree, so I am not so concerned about how the classes will reflect on my ability to handle a course load. I have also had my thought process confirmed by a few acceptance comity members here on SDN. That said, the classes at UNE do not show as Distance or Online, but the course numbers are different for DL and in person classes: In-person bio, for example, would show as BIO101, whereas DL BIO would show as BIO1010. The labs are actually completed by you, via a lab kit that you purchase if the class requires a lab. The School is regionally accredited, and the classes are credited as well -- they also have a DO school of their own. That said, the registration was amazing. The faculty and admin has been extremely helpful, and I have no qualms with their infrastructure. I will update occasionally to let you know how the classes are going. Hope this helps! Best.

50% of medical schools not accepting online courses is pretty high. I, for one, would not want to cut my chances of an acceptance in half straight out of the gate.

 

[ForensicOdontology]

Sure, but I'd venture to say that most folks considering online classes, are doing so because they simply can't take classes in person -- be it because of work, or kids, or what-have-you. Most folks also do not apply to every single med school -- or even half, for that matter -- so to apply to those who do accept online classes would not hinder your odds statistically, compared to the traditional applicant. To say that not having and option is better than having one that might limit you, however slightly depending on where you intend on applying, simply isn't realistic. That said, going DO makes the scenario -- my scenario -- all that much better.

 

[FNP_Blix]

I'm currently taking Chem 1 and Bio 1 online. I have done some fairly deep research on the topic of online classes, and I've come to find that while there are some Med schools that will not accept the classes, they are not the majority -- the number is about 50/50. That said, I am looking to complete a DO, and already have a Masters Degree, so I am not so concerned about how the classes will reflect on my ability to handle a course load. I have also had my thought process confirmed by a few acceptance comity members here on SDN. That said, the classes at UNE do not show as Distance or Online, but the course numbers are different for DL and in person classes: In-person bio, for example, would show as BIO101, whereas DL BIO would show as BIO1010. The labs are actually completed by you, via a lab kit that you purchase if the class requires a lab. The School is regionally accredited, and the classes are credited as well -- they also have a DO school of their own. That said, the registration was amazing. The faculty and admin has been extremely helpful, and I have no qualms with their infrastructure. I will update occasionally to let you know how the classes are going. Hope this helps! Best.

It's been 3 years. Can you tell me how this wen't? Did you have any troubles getting into med school with online sciences. I just requested info from the university and looking to start taking pre-reqs online

 

[futuredoc331]

It's been 3 years. Can you tell me how this wen't? Did you have any troubles getting into med school with online sciences. I just requested info from the university and looking to start taking pre-reqs online

Happy to say I'm currently a medical student at my top choice school. I can't tell you how successful it could have been other than that because I got into my first two schools right off the bat and then cancelled everything else. I think I had 5 or 6 interviews pending when I cancelled everything and 6 or more secondaries to send out. I had a lot of love from the DO schools, but also got interviews at 2 out of 2 MD schools.

It can definitely be done. Just put your head down and make it happen.

 

[FNP_Blix]

Happy to say I'm currently a medical student at my top choice school. I can't tell you how successful it could have been other than that because I got into my first two schools right off the bat and then cancelled everything else. I think I had 5 or 6 interviews pending when I cancelled everything and 6 or more secondaries to send out. I had a lot of love from the DO schools, but also got interviews at 2 out of 2 MD schools.

It can definitely be done. Just put your head down and make it happen.

That's amazing. What were the labs like online?

 

[futuredoc331]

That's amazing. What were the labs like online?

They send you lab kits. You do the real lab right there in your own house. They'll send little sealed pipettes with the chemicals and stuff in it for chemistry. In biology they'll even send the specimens for dissection. I didn't realize that at first. In week 6 we were supposed to start dissecting and sure enough when I went to my box there was an air sealed frog, starfish, and grasshopper. I want to say there was even a fetal pig.

It's a little bit harder than at a brick and mortar because it's going to be all on you to do the work. When I transferred to a brick and mortar to finish up we had 2 lab partners and split everything. There was always a safety net. That's not to say these labs will be overwhelming, but it does take more effort.

 

[MaiTai857]

They send you lab kits. You do the real lab right there in your own house. They'll send little sealed pipettes with the chemicals and stuff in it for chemistry. In biology they'll even send the specimens for dissection. I didn't realize that at first. In week 6 we were supposed to start dissecting and sure enough when I went to my box there was an air sealed frog, starfish, and grasshopper. I want to say there was even a fetal pig.

It's a little bit harder than at a brick and mortar because it's going to be all on you to do the work. When I transferred to a brick and mortar to finish up we had 2 lab partners and split everything. There was always a safety net. That's not to say these labs will be overwhelming, but it does take more effort.

I am in the same boat and am seeing UNE as one of my only options for finishing up pre-med prereqs. I have my current BS in accounting and am just waiting for my sciences to apply and take the next steps forward. After reading your earlier post, I am now under the assumption that you are not recommending taking all pre-med sciences at UNE, and instead taking a certain few and finishing up at cc? Do you mind relaying your reasoning for this? Also, I tried to send you a direct message to further communicate on this topic, if you are willing, but was unable to.

Anything you can provide would be extremely helpful. Thank you

 

[futuredoc331]

I am in the same boat and am seeing UNE as one of my only options for finishing up pre-med prereqs. I have my current BS in accounting and am just waiting for my sciences to apply and take the next steps forward. After reading your earlier post, I am now under the assumption that you are not recommending taking all pre-med sciences at UNE, and instead taking a certain few and finishing up at cc? Do you mind relaying your reasoning for this? Also, I tried to send you a direct message to further communicate on this topic, if you are willing, but was unable to.

Anything you can provide would be extremely helpful. Thank you

Not sure why you weren't able to PM me.

If taking classes via UNE is your only chance for completing the requirements my recommendation is to go for it. Sign up, ace the classes, and get into medical school. Just do it and don't look back. I'm pretty sure most DO schools were accepting online courses two years ago when I applied and I know many MD schools were as well. I imagine things will be even more favorable going forward.

I don't recall what was said previously in this thread, but I think my only word of caution was that online courses may take a little more work than anticipated. Without lectures you have to find the content online or learn strictly from the book and the labs are all on you. That really shouldn't be a problem today with things like Khan Academy and all of the free youtube videos covering the basic sciences, but it is something that people need to be aware of.

Again, if you have no other choice just put your head down and do what it takes.

 

[FNP_Blix]

Thanks for the info. Thats really cool they send you the kits at home for you to do the labs.