WVUPharm2007

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Apparently Shoppers Drug Mart and Rexall are at a level of pissivity rarely seen before. They are going ape **** and threatening to cut jobs, services, stop hiring interns, hold patients hostage, and everything else short of overthrowing the government...

...and I'm pretty sure their "new" reimbursement rate is still better than in the US...lmao...
 

StevePerry

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Apparently Shoppers Drug Mart and Rexall are at a level of pissivity rarely seen before. They are going ape **** and threatening to cut jobs, services, stop hiring interns, hold patients hostage, and everything else short of overthrowing the government...

...and I'm pretty sure their "new" reimbursement rate is still better than in the US...lmao...

This is why we need a single-payer system, right (or provincial/state...)? Come on, where are all my single-payer, "US-system sucks" buddies on this one! What an effing joke. This is exactly what happens when you give one group (govt) too much negotiation power and eliminate competition. Crummy Medicaid reimbursement levels for all... imagine how bad the US reimbursement levels would be in this scenario...
 
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WVUPharm2007

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This is why we need a single-payer system, right (or provincial/state...)? Come on, where are all my single-payer, "US-system sucks" buddies on this one! What an effing joke. This is exactly what happens when you give one group (govt) too much negotiation power and eliminate competition. Crummy Medicaid reimbursement levels for all... imagine how bad the US reimbursement levels would be in this scenario...
...it's going that way either way. Insurance companies want to cut reimbursement every year, too.
 

StevePerry

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...it's going that way either way. Insurance companies want to cut reimbursement every year, too.
True, but would you argue that Medicaid reimbursement is not the worst of all as a general rule of thumb (I know it is like comparing shades of suckiness)? At least now, if for instance Medco had absolute pisspoor reimbursement in relation to Express Scripts, the chains (the Shoppers Drugs of the US) could refuse to be in networks w/ Medco and this would apply some pressure (upset employees for employers that contracted w/ Medco) back up the chain to switch PBM's when no pharmacies would fill their sick kids antibiotic at the Medco copay, forcing employer to switch PBM's costing Medco business. In the most extreme hypothetical situations (I know this is not what employers usually look at when selecting PBMs) at least there is room for some sort of negative feedback in our system versus giving the goverment complete control over contract negotiations w/ single/provincial payer systems. Come on you know economics well enough to understand bargaining power... but yeah I agree keeping reimbursement to where it should be is quite the battle in any country it seems...
 

pharmwannebe2

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Apparently Shoppers Drug Mart and Rexall are at a level of pissivity rarely seen before. They are going ape **** and threatening to cut jobs, services, stop hiring interns, hold patients hostage, and everything else short of overthrowing the government...

...and I'm pretty sure their "new" reimbursement rate is still better than in the US...lmao...
still wanting to move to canada aye mate?
 

MountainPharmD

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Welcome to the party Canada...We've been here for awhile and its not fun.
 

WVUPharm2007

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still wanting to move to canada aye mate?
Yeah. Eff it, if need be, I'll just take a remote entry job in the US and live in Toronto...:laugh:

"Career" is about #5 or #6 on my life priority list. I'll take a pay cut or work part time to live in such a cool town. Plus, you don't have to work full time to get medical benefits...
 

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Damn, I was planning to move back to Toronto when I graduate. Hmm, maybe I'll try Vancouver or something, but it looks like the other provinces may follow suit after seeing Ontario implement it.
 

WVUPharm2007

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lmao...the US gov't has made cuts many times before...and I've never seen our independent or chain pharmacies act with the vitriol the Cannucks are. (Again, American pharmacists just shrug and take it...)

Apparently, several pharmacy chains have decided to cut operating hours and services in London, the town the woman responsible for the cut in reimbursement rates hails from. Freakin' hilarious.

Rexall announced they are cutting services and corporate jobs, too.

(FYI, Rexall and SDM are like the CVS and Walgreens of Canada)
 

try_infrared

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I can personally confirm this... as of yesterday, I no longer have a summer internship and job for the fall with Rexall. I'm SO glad I spent all that time and money in pharm school to graduate NOW, in the middle of this ****storm!

I can also confirm that, for the first time EVER, the pharmacists in this province are uniformly going completely APE****. Finally we can all agree on doing something together!

It's horrific and amazing, all at once.
 

WVUPharm2007

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Here is a pretty good primer on this mess for any other United Statesian interested in it.
 

WVUPharm2007

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I can personally confirm this... as of yesterday, I no longer have a summer internship and job for the fall with Rexall. I'm SO glad I spent all that time and money in pharm school to graduate NOW, in the middle of this ****storm!

I can also confirm that, for the first time EVER, the pharmacists in this province are uniformly going completely APE****. Finally we can all agree on doing something together!

It's horrific and amazing, all at once.
There is no way in hell this will stand long term. From everything I've read and heard, pharmacy services will go to hell - especially in rural Ontario.

I'm hoping that all of y'all go on strike. Every pharmacist...in the entire province...put down the spatula and walk away. It'd be epic...

Is the job you lost for the fall as an intern or as an actual pharmacist?
 
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MountainPharmD

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There is no way in hell this will stand long term. From everything I've read and heard, pharmacy services will go to hell - especially in rural Ontario.

I'm hoping that all of y'all go on strike. Every pharmacist...in the entire province...put down the spatula and walk away. It'd be epic...

Is the job you lost for the fall as an intern or as an actual pharmacist?
If only we had half the balls these Canuck Pharmacists have. We could take back our profession if we wanted to. The problem is no one wants to. Sad....
 

WVUPharm2007

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try_infrared

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It absolutely won't stand long term... the big chains are putting the wheels in motion, and more big changes are coming from them in the next few days. I guarantee the gov't will back off, at least to some degree.... they're just trying to look hard line now so that in the end, when they make some small concessions, they look like heroes.

Unfortunately for me, it'll probably come too late... my contract was for my summer internship (which is required for licensure) followed by a job in the fall.

Now I'm scrambling to find something for june, when I was supposed to start.



There is no way in hell this will stand long term. From everything I've read and heard, pharmacy services will go to hell - especially in rural Ontario.

I'm hoping that all of y'all go on strike. Every pharmacist...in the entire province...put down the spatula and walk away. It'd be epic...

Is the job you lost for the fall as an intern or as an actual pharmacist?
 

MountainPharmD

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Aw shucks, this made me blush. Is this how people view us? Check out this article about Canadian pharmacists and see if it doesn't make you happy to be a pharmacist (or prospective pharmacist).

http://casselmanual.blogspot.com/2010/04/ontario-pharmacies-pigs-swilling-at.html
Wow this guy is a F-ing idiot. Thats the problem these days...everyone thinks they know what they are talking about when hardly anyone does...He talks about "giant international drug companies" and "corporate drug chains" and then spends the rant bashing Pharmacists as if they are the ones profiting from all this. Here are some of his quotes. What an idiot.

Are you an Ontario pharmacy customer who’s been bitching for years about the high cost of drugs and the gouging, high dispensing fees charged by pharmacists?
Pharmacists, for the most part, are millionaire business people of the lowest moral order. They have one of the sweetest business scams going and they are ****ting their pants in fear that they might lose the unfair advantage they have over desperate customers.
These criminal sleazebags want to gob and swill at the hog trough of glut forever. Every pill should cost 20 bucks each. Pharmacists should have 6 houses!
But after a couple of weeks of no sales, just watch those dirty, greedy pharmacists run, yelping and squealing like the pigs they are, whining and begging you to return to their stores.
To wrap it all up and show how this moron has no clue what he is talking about here is how he ends his misguided rant:

Easy, it’s time to start saying to big pharma: **** you, fat cat!
Right....He goes on an idiotic rant about how Pharmacists are scum bags and millionaires and the ones responsible for high drug prices then ends it by saying F-you big pharma.....makes a lot of sense.....
 

Pharmavixen

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I forgive you, Twilightz :D Didya know that Deb Matthews' brother-in-law is former Ontario premier David Peterson, who sits on the board of Shoppers Drug Mart? Should make for some interesting thanksgiving dinner conversations.

Here's the skinny on the proposed legislation from the Ontario Pharmacists' Association:

The McGuinty Government is cutting $750 Million, over a billion from our industry in 2011, that figure will increase annually, and the cumulative total over three years, in excess of $3 Billion. This massive cut removes the equivalent of three pharmacists from every pharmacy; three pharmacists who will no longer be available to help the people of Ontario with their healthcare needs.
A more amusing link: the "Boycott Shoppers Drug Mart" Facebook page.

Shoppers has a bit of a credibility problem: when Ontario banned cigarette sales in pharmacies, Shoppers (which at the time was owned by the same mega corp that owned Imperial Tobacco) predicted all sorts of doom-and-gloom scenarios. What actually happened was more new pharmacies opened the year after the smokes ban than the previous year.

This really is going to be a disaster for us, however. Averaged out, it's a cut of $300,000 per pharmacy, and who it hurts the most are the professional pharmacies, the ones with small or non-existent front shops that focus on dispensing.
 

thedrunkenpharm

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Wow this guy is a F-ing idiot. Thats the problem these days...everyone thinks they know what they are talking about when hardly anyone does...He talks about "giant international drug companies" and "corporate drug chains" and then spends the rant bashing Pharmacists as if they are the ones profiting from all this. Here are some of his quotes. What an idiot.









To wrap it all up and show how this moron has no clue what he is talking about here is how he ends his misguided rant:



Right....He goes on an idiotic rant about how Pharmacists are scum bags and millionaires and the ones responsible for high drug prices then ends it by saying F-you big pharma.....makes a lot of sense.....
C'mon, you know it made you smile. I know it can be easy to get mad over this dude's nonsense but I just laugh at the absurdity. He just proved he has an extra chromosome and I find it hilarious.
 

happyfishaha

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I just got my summer job with Shoppers cancelled and got extremely upset now. Just to collect some thoughts here from ppl who are also in my situation, are you planning to find some pharmacy unrelated job or just try to volunteer in a pharmacy, etc?
 

alexd10

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If only we had half the balls these Canuck Pharmacists have. We could take back our profession if we wanted to. The problem is no one wants to. Sad....
haha...Did you read about how SDM cut services/working hours and started charging for deliveries only in Deb Matthews' riding/hometown? That pretty much sums up the level of tension up here right now. The sad thing is, a lot of the public is misinformed by the media and not on our side.
 

Pharmavixen

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Good article by Andre Picard in the Globe: "Cheap drugs? There's a cost."

The kickbacks system had to go. But it existed because government drug plans do not pay pharmacists a reasonable dispensing fee. An Ontario physician can bill $11 for renewing a prescription over the phone, and more than double that amount for doing so in person. Why should a pharmacist be paid a maximum of $7 to actually fill the prescription? (Under the reform, that amount will rise to $8 in cities and $11 in rural areas, which is still inadequate.)

The most disconcerting aspect of the new policy, however, is how it was implemented. The Ontario government essentially big-footed and bad-mouthed pharmacists; it would never dare use such bully-boy tactics on physicians or nurses.
 

WVUPharm2007

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The pharmacists associations have a website up and running.

With cheesy video:
[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Juxlt_0oD04[/YOUTUBE]

Apparently that spot is getting some ad time on national TV up in The Hat.

Could you imagine the APhA actually caring enough about anything to respond in force like that? Hahahahahaha...riiiiight...

Also, this picture makes me depressed when I think of US retail pharmacy:


Could you imagine how great retail would be if the corporate giants were only corporate minorities? 3/4 pharmacist owned? My God, it would be beautiful. I would consider actually doing it for a living if Poppa CVS wasn't looking over my shoulders...puppeteer strings on my limbs. Hell, all this will do is make all the independents close and expand Shoppers Drug Mart's market share.

Well, Cannucks, your retail profession is turning into the US retail pharmacy profession. Trust me. It sucks.
 
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try_infrared

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Hey watch it... those are some of my friends in that cheesy video! Also our professional organization had nothing to do with it, it was produced independently by pharmacy students and put on the net by the Ontario Community Pharmacies Coalition, which is not really an official organization of any kind but mostly just a group put together by a lot of angry pharmacists.

Also, I do not believe that pie chart for one second.
 

twilightz

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Also, I do not believe that pie chart for one second.

It is a commonly stated statistic that about 50% of community pharmacies in Ontario are independent, so if you're disputing that point, then you need to come up with some numbers, and tell us where you got them from.
 

quartel

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I didn't apply/go to pharm school in Canada, but reading threads like this makes me sigh with relief that I never attempted it.

Being jobless in Canada only holding an undergrad degree is one thing, having a professional degree and being jobless is on a whole other level.
 

WVUPharm2007

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Hey watch it... those are some of my friends in that cheesy video! Also our professional organization had nothing to do with it, it was produced independently by pharmacy students and put on the net by the Ontario Community Pharmacies Coalition, which is not really an official organization of any kind but mostly just a group put together by a lot of angry pharmacists.
That's even more impressive. It's so different to see a lack of apathy from retail pharmacists.
 

Pharmavixen

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I didn't apply/go to pharm school in Canada, but reading threads like this makes me sigh with relief that I never attempted it.

Being jobless in Canada only holding an undergrad degree is one thing, having a professional degree and being jobless is on a whole other level.
The BscPhm is still a professional degree, even if it isn't a PharmD.

And if you're jobless in Canada, you still have health care coverage.
 

WVUPharm2007

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"I'm Sorry"

April 19, 2010
Letter to the editor, The Sault Star

When I graduated from Dalhousie in 1999, I felt good about the profession I chose. I liked helping people and I thought that I could make a difference as a front line health care provider. Over the last 11 years I believe that I have done just that….made a difference to the health outcomes of the patients I see.

During an average eight hour shift, I might counsel 45 people on new medication. I would answer approximately 30 questions via phone calls on medication. I would talk to about 30 patients in the aisles about medication for themselves or a loved one. I might take about 20 calls from doctors regarding medication issues on our mutual patients.

As it stands today I have the support staff I need to complete all of these tasks along with getting all the administrative tasks of the day completed.

The Ministry of Health (MOH) has decided to take out 750 million dollars in pharmacy funding and only put 250 million back into the system without any regard to the patients we serve every day.

So I would like to apologize in advance because on May 16th when these new cuts are implemented, I will not have the support staff (technicians) to allow me to address your questions on the phone and in the aisles. Although it will pain me to do so and I will apologize, I will put your question in the queue, and make you wait 20 minutes for your question. When you come from a 4 hour wait at emergency, and arrive at the pharmacy you will wait another 2 hours for your prescriptions, I’m sorry.

What the MOH does not seem to grasp or maybe they do and just don’t care is that what will be left of our pharmacies in Ontario is an American style delivery of pharmacy services where the patient has no access to the pharmacist. Not exactly what I envisioned when I graduated 11 years ago.

Ian McNeil, Pharmacist
Hahahahahahahahahaha.
 

Pharmavixen

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Weird WVU - I just finished reading that same letter, and clicked over here, to find you'd beat me to it.

If any of you happen to be in Toronto tomorrow:

Official Opposition Day Motion Debate in the Ontario Legislature - Wednesday April 21
On April 21, at 3 p.m., Christine Elliot, MPP, will be debating the official Opposition Day motion regarding the government's cuts to frontline healthcare in the Ontario legislature. The Ontario's Community Pharmacies coalition is hoping to have a good showing of pharmacists wearing lab coats in the public gallery at the legislature during this debate.

If you can be at the Ontario legislature at 2:45 p.m. tomorrow, please RSVP to [email protected].
I'm going to try and get out of work early for this - I work just a couple miles' east of Queens' Park.
 
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litetigre

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In Florida, a bill that force medicaid pt to HMO and eliminate pharmacy provider network is heading to a vote.
 

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hi everyone

new user/long time lurker... been following this thread for a while

thought you guys would like to see tonight's debate on TVO (ontario's version of PBS) - paints a pretty good picture of what the scene is right now

[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=whIKLFee0k8[/YOUTUBE]

heads up: its long
 

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You lurked all along and the best ID you can come up with is Pantoprazole40?
 

WVUPharm2007

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try_infrared

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I'll be there, pharmavixen!



Weird WVU - I just finished reading that same letter, and clicked over here, to find you'd beat me to it.

If any of you happen to be in Toronto tomorrow:



I'm going to try and get out of work early for this - I work just a couple miles' east of Queens' Park.
 

WVUPharm2007

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StaviZFingerZ

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You usually have to have somethin' wrong with you to get medicaid...not just simply being unemployed.

And poor.

What's the income tax % in Canada?
 

WVUPharm2007

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hi everyone

new user/long time lurker... been following this thread for a while

thought you guys would like to see tonight's debate on TVO (ontario's version of PBS) - paints a pretty good picture of what the scene is right now

[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=whIKLFee0k8[/YOUTUBE]

heads up: its long
Y'all Canadians suck at having debates. That dude let the moderator sucker him into a stupid ass straw man argument about pharmacists spending money to sponsor baseball teams. I got mad at the poor debating execution and stopped listening. I'll come back to it later.

I'll tell you what. Get me a plane ticket to Toronto and I'll debate for y'all. I'll kick the govt's ass.
 

WVUPharm2007

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And poor.

What's the income tax % in Canada?
About the same as the US. Provincial rate is higher...and sales tax. Though honestly, its not that bad because they don't have to support the most advanced and powerful military in the history of humanity.
 

StaviZFingerZ

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About the same as the US. Provincial rate is higher...and sales tax. Though honestly, its not that bad because they don't have to support the most advanced and powerful military in the history of humanity.

Hell...then we need to tax Canada for providing protection... or attack them and take over. They should've joined the US... we'd have a better hockey team.

I like our military. We should make it stronger.
 

StaviZFingerZ

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I went into Canada through upstate NY heading towards Montreal. And everyone was talking to me in French. It pissed me off a bit...
 

WVUPharm2007

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The problem is the illogical and archaic way the Cannucks price generics. This percentage of brand thing with sub-cost reimbursement for professional services with a bizarre "kickback as a necessity to turn a profit" system is ******ed.

I can't believe I'm going to say this...but the Cannucks need to mimic the US system in a way. They need to make a system that puts a CAP on generic prices rather than creating a static price. A slightly free market approach with the generics would work here. Say that the MAX the generic manufacturers can CHARGE is 25% of brand. That's fine. But THEN make them compete. Competition is why the US generics are so much cheaper. They drive down costs to closer to overhead plus actual production value.

Then set up the kinda creepy all-knowing, all-seeing system we have in the US where the officially recognized actual price (called AWP in the US) of the drug is figured on a by-product basis, allow the RPH to maybe to mark it up 5% or so, and then reimburse the pharmacist by increasing dispensing fees to an acceptable amount that isn't a straight up loss.

Then everyone wins except for the generic drug makers. The generic drugs are cheaper and the pharmacists will get fair reimbursement for their services.

It's very simple. Do what the Americans do without including the ******ed things we do. It would prolly solve the problem.

Somebody email this **** to Ottawa. If y'all get this **** fixed by July, you might still get the pleasure of having me work up The Hat with all of you. If not, the US gets to keep me. I really want to live in Toronto, so get a-crackin' Leafers.
 

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I'm sure the fact the you spoke to them in English pissed them off too.

Good I hope so. In the end, they spoke to me in English...evidently they need to speak to me more than I need to talk to them.
 

WVUPharm2007

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Hell...then we need to tax Canada for providing protection... or attack them and take over. They should've joined the US... we'd have a better hockey team.
We tried that once. Didn't work out too well. Well, actually, we attacked and tried to invade BRITAIN, but the Canadians conveniently forget that they weren't a country yet and proclaim that they defeated the Americans in the War of 1812...even though the US won the War of 1812 against BRITAIN. As if the Battle of New Orleans and the Battle of Baltimore didn't happen...lmao...

But they should join the US. Their currency is stable. It'd be like the hot chick marrying the dork with a good credit score.
 

StaviZFingerZ

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And if they come to the states and talk to me in French, I will still talk to them in English. I say we should go to war... We'll let the Big10 and Big East guys take some guns and attack Canada... do they have a lot of petroleum? Not that Sand oil crap...the real sweet crude..