Opinions on academic internship programs?

[catlover]

Hi - I'm applying for an academic small animal rotating internship this fall, and starting to look at the various programs on the VIRMP. Unfortunately, many of the programs sound very similar on the VIRMP. I'm hoping to get some input on the pluses and minuses of internships at the various vet schools. If you've done an academic internship or are currently doing one, I'd love to hear your opinions. I'm especially interested in how much case responsibility you have, how well you are supported by the faculty, the level of support you have when doing emergency coverage on weekends/overnights, etc.

Thanks!

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[WhtsThFrequency]

It varies widely by school...academic internships can be very nice because in addition to all the normal stuff, you get the "crazy" cases that are only seen by big referral centers.

I feel like I'm very well supported by my peers/higher-ups, but I know it isn't the case elsewhere. However, I think that variability would be the same wherever you go. There are good and bad programs everywhere. I think things do tend to be more structured in academia, as opposed to a little more "throwing you in the deep end" in smaller institutions - you have a lot more specialists that are right at hand so you aren't wasting time scratching your head.

Visting and talking to current interns/residents is the only way you'll be able to get a better idea of each place.

 

[Angelo84]

What schools are you looking at? And what do you want to do after the internship--residency? GP? ER?

I am a fourth year and can answer some of that info for Tufts:

You are primary on your ER cases, if admitted it then goes to a service the next day.

I haven't had an intern on any of the subspecialities (only had cardio so far) but I think that only the residents are primary on cases and the intern is not.

On far as ER coverage as an intern there is a resident in ICU at all times that you can consult with, there is faculty on during the day. You can call exotics/radiologists/ultrasonographer/neuro/ ophtho at any time for consults some of those will incurr an additional fee to the client.

The interns are very well supported--you always have someone you can ask for help.

Hope that helps!

I am considering CSU and saw that you are in colorado--any info on CSU internship from your perspective?

 

[Bill59]

There are several major factors that vary with academic small animal internships.

1. Emergency: Some have extremely busy primary after hours services in which the interns spend a lot of time. Others have a relatively light, mostly referral emergency case load.

2. Medicine/surgery vs. specialty blocks: At some places, interns spend all their time on internal medicine or surgery services, whereas at other places the interns also rotate through other specialties, such as ophtho, neuro, onco, and so on.

3. Overall case load: Some programs see a much lower total number of cases than other programs. They will say these are all "quality" cases though.

4. Level of oversight: Some programs have a lot of oversight while at others the house officers act more independently.

So it depends on what you want. Like emergency/critical care? Want to spend time with an ophthalmologist? Want a lot of oversight or rather learn on your own?

 

[rileydog]

Don't have any specific tips but I did just go to a lecture on internships the other day. The speaker talked about looking specifically at case numbers, whether or not interns had primary case responsibility and the amount of emergency work when looking at the VIRMP website. He especially emphasized talking to someone who has gone through/is going through that specific program. He recommended a 10:30 phone call. If you call at 10:30 at night, you will most likely reach the intern and they may be more free to talk than they would while busy during the day. Good luck

 

[WhtsThFrequency]

10:30 pm?? Man.... If someone randomly called me at 10:30 at night I'd be pissed...Heck, I'm only up this late cause I'm working on a case report (and don't like it one bit....).....Noooooo way....at that time of night I'm recovering from pushing out slide after slide till my eyes fall out, working my arse off on the necropsy floor, writing reports and correcting student reports for hours, frenetically prepping for neuro/derm/cardio/gross/whatever rounds, and reading Jubb and Kennedy till I start talking morphs in my sleep . Trust me, my many colleagues currently in rotating med/surg internships would agree, and I am sure their hours are worse than mine. Big fat NO to the late evening call.....I don't know who came up with that (no offense rileydog, hah, I wasn't trying to yell at you...just whoever suggested that!)

At 10:30pm, interns (especially EM, IM, Sx, etc are likely either desperately catching up on sleep or in the middle of an emergency, or having much-needed alone and/or family time). Email first and set up a time. Then call.

 

[SilverSpyderGT]

Also, if your own school has an internship program, the program director can give you some good insight about which internships are "good" and "bad".

 

[StealthDog]

Yes, at 10:30 PM I'm either at home in bed (if I'm working days), or at work on emergency (if I'm on nights)... and if I'm on emergency, I could be sitting twiddling my thumbs, seeing an appointment, doing surgery, or writing up a surgical report/medical records, depending on the day. Definitely better to send an email or set up a time to call.

 

[WhtsThFrequency]

StealthDog, good to see you. Haven't in a while. How's the workin' life treating you?

 

[Bill59]

The only phone calls interns should be dealing with at 10:30 pm are those concerning emergency patients. If you call a hospital at 10:30 pm to talk about internships and they let you talk to the intern, I would cross that place off my list of programs to apply to. Because they clearly don't know how to screen calls for their emergency doctors.

 

[rileydog]

10:30 pm?? Man.... If someone randomly called me at 10:30 at night I'd be pissed... Big fat NO to the late evening call.....I don't know who came up with that (no offense rileydog, hah, I wasn't trying to yell at you...just whoever suggested that!)

At 10:30pm, interns (especially EM, IM, Sx, etc are likely either desperately catching up on sleep or in the middle of an emergency, or having much-needed alone and/or family time). Email first and set up a time. Then call.

Hey no worries, no offense taken. Just passing along what I heard. At first I thought it seemed ok but what you and a few others have said makes more sense. Guess it isn't such a good idea after all.... So ignore that part of my previous post

 

[WhtsThFrequency]

I do think that talking to the people who actually work there is essential though. I have had programs described to me in wonderful sugar coated language....and then realize that the interns/residents themselves are overworked and miserable once I actually sat down with them. I think talking to them is probably one of the most important things about finding a good internship.

 

[StealthDog]

How's the workin' life treating you?

Hi! Internship life isn't very glamerous, but I'm learning a ton and getting better every day. Love zoo work and exotics and surgery emergency and derm and cardio and everything else that comes with GP! Long distance life from husband is sucky, but only 248 1/2 days to go

How is residency?

 

[WhtsThFrequency]

Not very glamorous either, ha ha. But awesome. Man we get some crazy stuff here...TX really is the cesspool of infectious disease lol...plus odd creatures. Camels (yup, I mean Dromedary), bearcats, mini hedgehogs, deer, a giraffe, an osprey...lots of interesting species besides the usual ca/fe/eq/bo/cap/ov. But I do love it. Finally getting to do what you want to do 24/7 is great, even if the learning curve is more like a straight line up into oblivion hah! Yeah, I am long distance with the boyfriend as well while he does his Master's in Virginia...but in a year and a half he'll prolly be able to snag a job in TX till I finish. Won't be too hard with a MS in Animal Science....We are Texas A & M, right? Thank goodness for Skype!

 

[crittergal]

A very timely email for this subject just arrived in my inbox. The weekly VIN update email says they are holding a discussion forum on internship pursuit. Here is a snippet. I am not sure of the rules, so I don't want to post the whole thing:

Internships: who, what, when, where and why?
STUDENTS and New Grads: You can see the light at the end of the tunnel or you've recently completed your degree and now you're considering an internship?
Not so New Grads: You've completed an internship and have a story to share or you are hearing how so many more students are pursuing internships and want to know why?

Bring your Questions and Experiences this Sunday in the Rounds Room at 10 PM ET and find out stuff you didn't even know you needed to know!

Use the Rounds link in the main navigation bar to join the discussions.

 

[catlover]

Angelo84 - at CSU, I believe that the interns have primary case responsibility (at least on the services I have been on so far) - e.g. on Internal Medicine and Community Practice we could present our case to the intern and they would be in charge. I think when they do overnights/urgent care they transfer to another service in the morning.

I will try to talk to a few of our interns and see what their opinions are - I do know that a number of this year's residents at CSU were interns here last year (Ophtho, surgery - 2, CCU) - I've got to imagine that that's a good sign they liked it here.

 

[racccjlm]

Anyone else join the VIN discussion this evening? Thoughts? I found it very helpful - and impressive that many boarded individuals were there to chime in. Vet med just keeps getting more exciting

 

[Nexx]

Anyone else join the VIN discussion this evening? Thoughts? I found it very helpful - and impressive that many boarded individuals were there to chime in. Vet med just keeps getting more exciting

I was lurking, and may have even asked a question or two