Optometrist calling themselves as Doctors...Is that proper?

[scpod]

I don't really care much for this discussion because it doesn't matter a whole lot to me. Patients in the hospital assume most people in white coats are doctors unless you are a woman. If you are female, and even if you have "DOCTOR" tattooed to your forehead, you are usually thought to be a nurse.

I was really overwhelmed when an attending first introduced me as "Dr. Scpod" but they will often do it that way. They might say, "I'm Dr. xyz and this is Dr. Scpod, a 4th year med student, and we'll be taking care of you today. Residents, though, usually just say, "I'm doctor qrk and this is the med student with me." They don't typically call you "doctor". But, I've had more than one attending tell me that 3rd and 4th year are a time where you need to get used to acting like a doctor and being called a doctor because that's what you are about to become. It still made me feel a little strange, though.

When I introduced myself to patients, however, I always gave them my first name and told them that was the medical student in charge of them for the day. Still, they mostly tended to call me "doctor" anyway and I got tired very early on of continuously correcting them.

I've worked with quite a few PAs and NPs the past few years and heard them called "doctor" as well. Most of them will politely say, "Just call me George," or whatever and go on with it. But, I know there are some who would not do so.

I think what I'm trying to say is that most people think of the person who is taking care of them as "doctor" regardless of what there title is. It's become the generic term for just about any health care provider in many patient's minds. Many people may be offended by that.... but I'll bet just as many really don't even care. I'll be the first person to tell you that I don' believe NPs and PAs should have the autonomy they are seeking these days... but I don't care what they are called or what they want to call themselves. I'm more concerned that people are getting the proper healthcare that they deserve. I certainly don't care if an OD thinks he is a "doctor." Most of his patients probably call him that anyway. I care more about me and my own patients, and that is certainly enough to keep me more than busy.

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[nali1]

I don't really care much for this discussion because it doesn't matter a whole lot to me. Patients in the hospital assume most people in white coats are doctors unless you are a woman. If you are female, and even if you have "DOCTOR" tattooed to your forehead, you are usually thought to be a nurse.

I was really overwhelmed when an attending first introduced me as "Dr. Scpod" but they will often do it that way. They might say, "I'm Dr. xyz and this is Dr. Scpod, a 4th year med student, and we'll be taking care of you today. Residents, though, usually just say, "I'm doctor qrk and this is the med student with me." They don't typically call you "doctor". But, I've had more than one attending tell me that 3rd and 4th year are a time where you need to get used to acting like a doctor and being called a doctor because that's what you are about to become. It still made me feel a little strange, though.

When I introduced myself to patients, however, I always gave them my first name and told them that was the medical student in charge of them for the day. Still, they mostly tended to call me "doctor" anyway and I got tired very early on of continuously correcting them.

I've worked with quite a few PAs and NPs the past few years and heard them called "doctor" as well. Most of them will politely say, "Just call me George," or whatever and go on with it. But, I know there are some who would not do so.

I think what I'm trying to say is that most people think of the person who is taking care of them as "doctor" regardless of what there title is. It's become the generic term for just about any health care provider in many patient's minds. Many people may be offended by that.... but I'll bet just as many really don't even care. I'll be the first person to tell you that I don' believe NPs and PAs should have the autonomy they are seeking these days... but I don't care what they are called or what they want to call themselves. I'm more concerned that people are getting the proper healthcare that they deserve. I certainly don't care if an OD thinks he is a "doctor." Most of his patients probably call him that anyway. I care more about me and my own patients, and that is certainly enough to keep me more than busy.

Checkmate.

 

[Fiddlesticks]

Checkmate.

Agreed.

 

[Flushot]

When my father spent some time in the hospital a few months back, I noticed they had a simple system for credentials: colored scrubs.

Physicians were required to wear either black or white scrubs and no one else could wear that color. Nurses could only wear blue or light blue (depending on ICU or ED I think), and so forth.

Around the hospital were large signs with a color coded scheme letting all patients and family know who was who. If you wanted to speak with a respiratory therapist, look for those in dark orange. If you wanted to speak with a surgeon, look for white scrubs with an arm insignia. It was very specialized and uniform, almost like the military.

All colors, symbols and such were mandated (although administrators all wore business casual; I didn't see any in scrubs).

A podiatrist came to visit my father and he was wearing a lab coat but had maroon scrubs. No restrictions on who can wear a lab coat, but if you're a somewhat educated patient and you aren't color blind, you'll know exactly what he is qualified to do.

So, in this case, even if a OD was walking around saying I'm a doctor, the color would give it away immediately. Nothing against the OD, but there shouldn't be confusion and this system does its best to lower it.

I'm sure other hospitals out there have some kind of system or no system at all, but I'd like to see this kind of organization more just to make things simpler to the patient and to focus on more important things.

 

[FutureCTDoc]

Here is a simple guide I use
MD/DO: Dr. at all times
DMD/DDS (Excluding OMFS): Dr. in their office, academia and social settings
OD: Dr. in their office, academia and social settings
DPM: Dr. in their office, Ambulatory surgical center when they are the surgeon, academia and social settings
DC: Dr. in their office, academia and social settings
OMFS: If they have an MD follow MD guidelines, if not follow DMD/DDS
PhD: In academia and social settings
Clinical Psychologist PhD/PsyD: Dr. in their office, academia and social settings

 

[demayette]

Here is a simple guide I use
MD/DO: Dr. at all times
DMD/DDS (Excluding OMFS): Dr. in their office, academia and social settings
OD: Dr. in their office, academia and social settings
DPM: Dr. in their office, Ambulatory surgical center when they are the surgeon, academia and social settings
DC: Dr. in their office, academia and social settings
OMFS: If they have an MD follow MD guidelines, if not follow DMD/DDS
PhD: In academia and social settings
Clinical Psychologist PhD/PsyD: Dr. in their office, academia and social settings

DC should not call themselves doctors anywhere...and I will never call them as such.

 

[JaggerPlate]

DC should not call themselves doctors anywhere...and I will never call them as such.

They have a doctorate in crack a lackin' ...



This corpse is starting to reek.

 

[DRJJ1]

Every healthcare workers with a post grad degree calling themselves doctors nowadays...Last week, I had a patient who told me the eye doctor was in to see him... I thought he was referring to an ophtalmologist (MD/DO) and It's when I check the chart to see if any orders was written that I see that she was an optometrist. My question is that if both patients and other healthcare workers can not distinguish who is a medical doctor anymore ... Isn't that putting the patients' care in jeopardy. Let say if I did not look at her notes and her signature, I would have assume that she was an ophtalmologist. For instance if another physician has ordered a referral for a an ophtalmologist, I would have said to that physician that the patient has been seen by one already... I think the term DOCTOR is being obsolete now that patients' well-being are being jeopardized...

If you don t know this already you are prob

1 too young
2 not too swift
3 a phd is called dr a doctorate degree gets you to call that person who earned that doctorate degree doctor
have a problem? ok then,,say medical doctor eye doctor ear doctor professor is dr get it????????????????? I hope so because to call them anything but that is dissing them to the nth degree
im guessing you re new to this game and young so read up and join the game plan of life

 

[DRJJ1]

dc should not call themselves doctors anywhere...and i will never call them as such.

and yes you will address them as doctors as well or you will never ever see a patient from them and if you don t care then you will show your ignorance some is showing now,,and yes i am a chiro in 3rd yr med sch

 

[Flushot]

I don't know where the DC thing came in but I thought the whole point of this thread (if there was really a point or not) was to avoid confusion for the patient. A complicated case will see a variety of people with varying degrees, so why not make it simple and color code everything?

Even the doctorate level colors were carefully separated from the non-doctorate ones at the hospital that I used as an example, so we don't have to guess formalities and just move on.

 

[JaggerPlate]

I don't know where the DC thing came in but I thought the whole point of this thread (if there was really a point or not) was to avoid confusion for the patient. A complicated case will see a variety of people with varying degrees, so why not make it simple and color code everything?

Even the doctorate level colors were carefully separated from the non-doctorate ones at the hospital that I used as an example, so we don't have to guess formalities and just move on.

The color coding should have to extend outside of the office too. IE DO/MDs can only wear red shirts ever in life, ODs yellow, etc.


Just kidding. The color coding is a good idea, and I think it is at least semi common too.

 

[Flushot]

The color coding should have to extend outside of the office too. IE DO/MDs can only wear red shirts ever in life, ODs yellow, etc.


Just kidding. The color coding is a good idea, and I think it is at least semi common too.

I wish it caught on, because it's not that hard to do and removes a lot of the awkwardness and confusion that may or may not occur. If there are issues, it'll even out over time, such as ego trips or what not.

 

[demayette]

and yes you will address them as doctors as well or you will never ever see a patient from them and if you don t care then you will show your ignorance some is showing now,,and yes i am a chiro in 3rd yr med sch

you did the right thing by switching...you will be a doctor then.

 

[DrMcKittrick]

you did the right thing by switching...you will be a doctor then.

Leave it to someone who has earned NOTHING yet to make a comment like this. Anybody can take the MCAT and be a premed. Do something with your life first before judging those who already have. I admire any doctor wishing to go back to school to learn more so that he may continue to provide high quality care to others.

 

[demayette]

Leave it to someone who has earned NOTHING yet to make a comment like this. Anybody can take the MCAT and be a premed. Do something with your life first before judging those who already have. I admire any doctor wishing to go back to school to learn more so that he may continue to provide high quality care to others.

Do you really think most chiro are interested in providing high quality care? You must be so naive as an attending....

 

[thethethe]

he isnt even an attending, he is applying this year like the rest of us.

 

[demayette]

he isnt even an attending, he is applying this year like the rest of us.

How do you know that? His status says attending...

 

[teacherman84]

How do you know that? His status says attending...

Look at his posts on other threads. Unless hes an attending who has decided to go back and give med school another shot

 

[jjmad1201]

Look at his posts on other threads. Unless hes an attending who has decided to go back and give med school another shot

....lol

 

[demayette]

Look at his posts on other threads. Unless hes an attending who has decided to go back and give med school another shot

wow...I guess the SDN world is small

 

[EyEnStein 07]

So what do you call your dentist? Mr?

I dont see how thats jepordizing a patient...obviously if there is something seriously wrong that requires surgery,
they will get referred to an MD who does surgery. If ODs were regarded as DOCTOR OF MEDICINE, then i understand
what your saying...but its not...thats like saying someone with a PhD is not...they are Doctor of Philosophy

 

[demayette]

So what do you call your dentist? Mr?

I dont see how thats jepordizing a patient...obviously if there is something seriously wrong that requires surgery,
they will get referred to an MD who does surgery. If ODs were regarded as DOCTOR OF MEDICINE, then i understand
what your saying...but its not...thats like saying someone with a PhD is not...they are Doctor of Philosophy

We know that optometrists are doctors of optometry... The problem is that in a clinical setting it is confusing for non-physicians to call themselves doctors. I am a nurse and I can tell you that when someone says: "I am Dr X" in a clinical setting, everyone assumes that person is a physician.

 

[123165]

So what do you call your dentist? Mr?

I dont see how thats jepordizing a patient...obviously if there is something seriously wrong that requires surgery,
they will get referred to an MD who does surgery. If ODs were regarded as DOCTOR OF MEDICINE, then i understand
what your saying...but its not...thats like saying someone with a PhD is not...they are Doctor of Philosophy

Not trying to be mean, but did you even read the thread?

 

[plsfoldthx]

First off, I'm sorry but I think when you have limited knowledge about a profession, it is better to ask before making assumptions. All professions should be equally respected whether that person is a doctor or not. I agree with you that the dominant view in society attaches the word "doctor" to MDs. But most of these people do not directly work in the healthcare profession. There is nothing we can do to change that even if it's not true; but as you are in the healthcare field, I'm disappointed to read this from you. Also, I must disagree with you referring to these healthcare providers as "healthcare workers" as in they are somehow inferior to MDs. Each path has its own specialty and should be equally respected as they contribute to a patient's well being not only in terms of physical health but quality of life as well. You can't really say an orange is better than the banana, can you? And how does it puts a patient's care in jeopardy? A dentist is also referred Dr.A but I'm sure that the patient is perfectly aware that Dr. A is going to provide him/her with dental care or the optometrist Dr. B is going to provide vision care. I don't go to a dentist thinking that I'm going to get medical care or an optometrist expecting a lasik operation.

Anyone who hold a doctorate degree is referred to as Dr.___. If you want to be specific, I believe only MDs can be referred to as a physician.

And as your note regarding not knowing the difference between which doctor unless you check the signature, well if you are a physician or any health care provider for that matter, you are responsible for your patient's well being. Hence, you should know where you're referring your patients to or where your patient's health summary is coming from. Aren't healthcare providers supposed to work together for the benefit of their patients? I hope this misunderstanding will resolve itself in time. The reason why you enter the healthcare sector is to provide care for your patients so what does it matter who's called what?

Thank you for sticking it to this idiot. Best first post ever.

 

[Cannonball]

I saw a van drive past me today that said....


Sewing Machine Doctor!


Made me think of this thread.

 

[JaggerPlate]

I saw a van drive past me today that said....


Sewing Machine Doctor!


Made me think of this thread.

My grandfather owned a tree trimming business when my dad was a young kid and he used to tell people he was a doctor. When they asked what type of physician he was, he would tell them he was a 'tree surgeon.' My grandmother, an RN, would then proceed to yell at him. Hahahaha

 

[jvelos3]

We know that optometrists are doctors of optometry... The problem is that in a clinical setting it is confusing for non-physicians to call themselves doctors. I am a nurse and I can tell you that when someone says: "I am Dr X" in a clinical setting, everyone assumes that person is a physician.

You do know that not all physicians can do everything. Actually no physician can do everything. People specialize. Imagine if you are in the ED. Patient comes in, EMS yells "I need a doctor!". Would you want a path, derm, ortho, ophtho, rad, vasc, plastics, fam med, to answer your call? No...the patient would die.

I think a lot of you are in for a wake up call. In the real world everyone specializes. And everyone thinks they are the best type of physician. Take a peek at the physician forum. No one sees themselves under the umbrella of medical doctors but seclude themselves under their specialty. It becomes "us internists" and "us orthopods" not "us MD/DO".

EDIT: To continue what I was saying in the first paragraph. You would never find path, derm, ortho, ophtho, rad, vasc, plastics, fam med, answer that question. Because non lay people know their boundaries or what they can and cant treat AND they know that EMS meant "I need someone who can fix this person!"

Color coding scrubs or calling only these people "doctor" in this situation won't "fix" anything. The "problem" stems from ignorance. The general public thinks that any doctor can treat their chest pain. AND it seems like a number of you in this thread think that any physician can treat their chest pain.

 

[demayette]

You do know that not all physicians can do everything. Actually no physician can do everything. People specialize. Imagine if you are in the ED. Patient comes in, EMS yells "I need a doctor!". Would you want a path, derm, ortho, ophtho, rad, vasc, plastics, fam med, to answer your call? No...the patient would die.

I think a lot of you are in for a wake up call. In the real world everyone specializes. And everyone thinks they are the best type of physician. Take a peek at the physician forum. No one sees themselves under the umbrella of medical doctors but seclude themselves under their specialty. It becomes "us internists" and "us orthopods" not "us MD/DO".

EDIT: To continue what I was saying in the first paragraph. You would never find path, derm, ortho, ophtho, rad, vasc, plastics, fam med, answer that question. Because non lay people know their boundaries or what they can and cant treat AND they know that EMS meant "I need someone who can fix this person!"

Color coding scrubs or calling only these people "doctor" in this situation won't "fix" anything. The "problem" stems from ignorance. The general public thinks that any doctor can treat their chest pain. AND it seems like a number of you in this thread think that any physician can treat their chest pain.

We all can start calling all optometrists doctors in a clinical setting. In that case, we will have no objections when DNP start calling themselves doctors...or for that matter lets start referring everybody or even the janitor as doctor in a clinical setting.

 

[Flushot]

You do know that not all physicians can do everything. Actually no physician can do everything. People specialize. Imagine if you are in the ED. Patient comes in, EMS yells "I need a doctor!". Would you want a path, derm, ortho, ophtho, rad, vasc, plastics, fam med, to answer your call? No...the patient would die.

I think a lot of you are in for a wake up call. In the real world everyone specializes. And everyone thinks they are the best type of physician. Take a peek at the physician forum. No one sees themselves under the umbrella of medical doctors but seclude themselves under their specialty. It becomes "us internists" and "us orthopods" not "us MD/DO".

EDIT: To continue what I was saying in the first paragraph. You would never find path, derm, ortho, ophtho, rad, vasc, plastics, fam med, answer that question. Because non lay people know their boundaries or what they can and cant treat AND they know that EMS meant "I need someone who can fix this person!"

Color coding scrubs or calling only these people "doctor" in this situation won't "fix" anything. The "problem" stems from ignorance. The general public thinks that any doctor can treat their chest pain. AND it seems like a number of you in this thread think that any physician can treat their chest pain.

I agree that by that time, most professionals know their role and thus, I don't see the problem being in that level. The 'ignorance' if you will is from general public perception of who is a physician in a clinical setting.

The color coded scrubs aren't there to solve that issue you brought up. They are there to quickly and easily identify people for what they can do. If we're lucky, maybe it might start to solve the issue you have with doctors being able to do everything. When the general public see that there are multiple ranks taking care of them, it'll give them something to think about.

I still think it's a great idea to properly ID workers based on their degree. Odds are you'll wear a badge listing your credentials; why not a full uniform to make it easy on everyone?

 

[jvelos3]

We all can start calling all optometrists doctors in a clinical setting. In that case, we will have no objections when DNP start calling themselves doctors...or for that matter lets start referring everybody or even the janitor as doctor in a clinical setting.

Optometrists are already called doctor in a clinical setting...nothing new.

I agree that by that time, most professionals know their role and thus, I don't see the problem being in that level. The 'ignorance' if you will is from general public perception of who is a physician in a clinical setting.

The color coded scrubs aren't there to solve that issue you brought up. They are there to quickly and easily identify people for what they can do. If we're lucky, maybe it might start to solve the issue you have with doctors being able to do everything. When the general public see that there are multiple ranks taking care of them, it'll give them something to think about.

I still think it's a great idea to properly ID workers based on their degree. Odds are you'll wear a badge listing your credentials; why not a full uniform to make it easy on everyone?

I agree with somehow differentiating...to avoid confusion. But it seems like the system would get overwhelmed. How are you going to differentiate between all the medical specialties?

I think a badge listing credentials will suffice. Above all, self regulation...knowing when to and when not to step in...is the best and most efficient way to avoid confusion.

 

[Flushot]

I agree with somehow differentiating...to avoid confusion. But it seems like the system would get overwhelmed. How are you going to differentiate between all the medical specialties?

I think a badge listing credentials will suffice. Above all, self regulation...knowing when to and when not to step in...is the best and most efficient way to avoid confusion.

Yeah, the primary goal is for quick identification and avoiding confusion. Self-regulation is also important but this helps.

The system at the hospital I worked at was pretty simple, although they didn't have a color for every possible branch. For example, in the ICU, all of the physicians wore white scrubs, but there was no way to tell between surgeon or hospitalist. However, the patient would at least know they are a physician and still ask for help in what they could do.

The badges will always be there, but I thought the system was simple, easy to implement, and it only helped the patients and families. My mother had no problem finding a nurse or a podiatrist from the crowd in the elevator in case she wanted to ask a question. It's amazingly effective.

That said, it's just to help the situation, rather than solve it. In a place with so many degrees and roles, you can't tag them all with a color but you can at least let the patient know their level of expertise to a certain degree.

 

[jvelos3]

Yeah, the primary goal is for quick identification and avoiding confusion. Self-regulation is also important but this helps.

The system at the hospital I worked at was pretty simple, although they didn't have a color for every possible branch. For example, in the ICU, all of the physicians wore white scrubs, but there was no way to tell between surgeon or hospitalist. However, the patient would at least know they are a physician and still ask for help in what they could do.

The badges will always be there, but I thought the system was simple, easy to implement, and it only helped the patients and families. My mother had no problem finding a nurse or a podiatrist from the crowd in the elevator in case she wanted to ask a question. It's amazingly effective.

That said, it's just to help the situation, rather than solve it. In a place with so many degrees and roles, you can't tag them all with a color but you can at least let the patient know their level of expertise to a certain degree.

Ahhh...I see what you mean. Quick ID. Makes sense.

 

[BlueAvenue]

I don't really think it's the place of a pre-med to dictate what a health care professional with a doctorate calls themself

 

[123165]

I don't really think it's the place of a pre-med to dictate what a health care professional with a doctorate calls themself

The world is full of people making rules for everyone else.

All kidding aside, this is a forum and designed for people to discuss opinions in a civil matter. No one is trying to dictate anything, just bouncing ideas. I know that I am a pre-med and have a lot to learn, but I doubt that I am going to be getting a package in the mail on the first say of school with "societal knowledge" on the inside.

 

[johncronejr]

There is no DANGER in health care professionals other than MD's calling themselves doctors if they have a doctorate. All of this talk about "confusion" just adds to the elitist attitude many "common folk" think medical doctors have. Do you really think the unwashed masses who did not attend medical school are idiots?

If an optometrist, DNP, DPT, etc....calls themself doctor in a hospital it does no harm. Now if an optometrist tries to diagnose a gallbladder attack then there is danger. It's quite simple, the term "doctor" didn't cause the problem the fact that the person tried to dabble outside their specialty caused the problem. Kudos to the posters who have already pointed this out. I wanted to lob one more in.

What is difficult about that? This all smacks of MD's just wanting to preserve their "prestigious" title. You know, it doesn't erase your work if other fields use the title. The general public knows more than you think they do.

 

[123165]

There is no DANGER in health care professionals other than MD's calling themselves doctors if they have a doctorate. All of this talk about "confusion" just adds to the elitist attitude many "common folk" think medical doctors have. Do you really think the unwashed masses who did not attend medical school are idiots?

If an optometrist, DNP, DPT, etc....calls themself doctor in a hospital it does no harm. Now if an optometrist tries to diagnose a gallbladder attack then there is danger. It's quite simple, the term "doctor" didn't cause the problem the fact that the person tried to dabble outside their specialty caused the problem. Kudos to the posters who have already pointed this out. I wanted to lob one more in.

What is difficult about that? This all smacks of MD's just wanting to preserve their "prestigious" title. You know, it doesn't erase your work if other fields use the title. The general public knows more than you think they do.

I do enjoy it when people use "MD's" instead of "physicians", or even "doctors". Especially in the pre-osteo forum.

 

[Flushot]

Actually, since johncronejr is going for PT, this might be another good example of color coding.

Since there's a masters and doctorate form of the same degree, this is another situation where knowing who to address 'Dr.', regardless of the field, would be handy. Believe me; it's not about ego, but patients do want to know. They hate to guess when they have to approach a clinician and don't see a badge.

It seems like the people who come in still think the discussion is about whether or not it is okay for someone with a doctorate to call themselves 'Dr.' no matter the setting. I think we could at least attempt to resolve that with a proper uniform and color system.

 

[johncronejr]

Actually, since johncronejr is going for PT, this might be another good example of color coding.

Since there's a masters and doctorate form of the same degree, this is another situation where knowing who to address 'Dr.', regardless of the field, would be handy. Believe me; it's not about ego, but patients do want to know. They hate to guess when they have to approach a clinician and don't see a badge.

It seems like the people who come in still think the discussion is about whether or not it is okay for someone with a doctorate to call themselves 'Dr.' no matter the setting. I think we could at least attempt to resolve that with a proper uniform and color system.

I suppose if we can't rely on ethics and the legal system to help curb the dangers of someone practicing outside of their field then by all means let's color code our wardrobe. Hey maybe we could institute some mandatory "gang signs" that have to be flashed by the respective fields when walking the various medical turfs. Between that and color coding we should all be much safer.

C'mon....the issue is not the term "doctor", the issue is malpractice. Are there not already laws which would address an optometrist "practicing" outside of their field?

 

[123165]

I suppose if we can't rely on ethics and the legal system to help curb the dangers of someone practicing outside of their field then by all means let's color code our wardrobe. Hey maybe we could institute some mandatory "gang signs" that have to be flashed by the respective fields when walking the various medical turfs. Between that and color coding we should all be much safer.

C'mon....the issue is not the term "doctor", the issue is malpractice. Are there not already laws which would address an optometrist "practicing" outside of their field?

I disagree with this, I really think the issue is having an informed patient. Your "gang signs" hyperbole is ridiculous.

 

[johncronejr]

I disagree with this, I really think the issue is having an informed patient. Your "gang signs" hyperbole is ridiculous.

You don't read sarcasm well do you? Of course it would be ridiculous, just as ridiculous as asking every patient to memorize a palette of colors for identifying who's who in a hospital or large clinic.

Now Kevon, please do tell of a situation where a patient could be placed in danger if a non-medical doctor uses the term doctor. A situation where that person is not already violating ethics or breaking malpractice laws.

If an optometrist is in a hospital and refers to themselves as "Doctor. X" and he isn't addressing a patient on a matter which is outside of his scope, how does this hurt any patient? I know this thread really means little outside of the SDN forum, but it's Sunday so what else is there to do but have some lively banter. I am open to any logical response.

I await enlightenment Kevon.

 

[Flushot]

I suppose if we can't rely on ethics and the legal system to help curb the dangers of someone practicing outside of their field then by all means let's color code our wardrobe. Hey maybe we could institute some mandatory "gang signs" that have to be flashed by the respective fields when walking the various medical turfs. Between that and color coding we should all be much safer.

C'mon....the issue is not the term "doctor", the issue is malpractice. Are there not already laws which would address an optometrist "practicing" outside of their field?

Well, since you pointed out that this is sarcasm, let me reiterate that these systems of color coding do exist and they do work. And no, the patients do not have to memorize anything; there were plenty of large signs around the hospital identifying each clinician.

I don't see the problem with implementing this system at nearly every major hospital. This serves more to the patients than anyone else, and we as clinicians should be the ones in self-regulation as said before when it comes to the legal matters. I'm certain an optometrist won't overstep their boundaries, regardless if they introduce themselves as doctor.

 

[johncronejr]

Well, since you pointed out that this is sarcasm, let me reiterate that these systems of color coding do exist and they do work. And no, the patients do not have to memorize anything; there were plenty of large signs around the hospital identifying each clinician.

I don't see the problem with implementing this system at nearly every major hospital. This serves more to the patients than anyone else, and we as clinicians should be the ones in self-regulation as said before when it comes to the legal matters. I'm certain an optometrist won't overstep their boundaries, regardless if they introduce themselves as doctor.

You make good sense Flushot. If the system of color coded scrubs/lab coats has been shown to work, well then so be it. Just whoever decides these things, don't require that PT's wear fuschia, it's not my color.

I like this discussion. It's somewhat spirited. I think we can all agree that serving patient's is the ultimate goal and if patient's express a desire for a better method then let's do what serves the patient better. Going to the doctor, any kind, is a pain in the rear. Making the experience even a little less frustrating is a step in the right direction.

 

[Flushot]

Thanks. On the surface, it seems like this discussion is about who gets to be called what, but it's really for the general public. They don't go to the hospital every day or know about every role, so if there's a great way to make things easier for them and it's not too difficult to implement, let's do it.

I also think the colors are negotiable 😉

EDIT - I just want to add that I'm glad you came back. It seems the title of the thread and the initial posts can lend itself to some misunderstanding, because there have been a few upset posts. If anything, no one is trying to discount the hard work anyone has done. It's all about keeping things straight for patients who aren't expected to know all of this.

 

[JaggerPlate]

i disagree with this, i really think the issue is having an informed patient. Your "gang signs" hyperbole is ridiculous.

+ 1

 

[123165]

You don't read sarcasm well do you? Of course it would be ridiculous, just as ridiculous as asking every patient to memorize a palette of colors for identifying who's who in a hospital or large clinic.

Now Kevon, please do tell of a situation where a patient could be placed in danger if a non-medical doctor uses the term doctor. A situation where that person is not already violating ethics or breaking malpractice laws.

If an optometrist is in a hospital and refers to themselves as "Doctor. X" and he isn't addressing a patient on a matter which is outside of his scope, how does this hurt any patient? I know this thread really means little outside of the SDN forum, but it's Sunday so what else is there to do but have some lively banter. I am open to any logical response.

I await enlightenment Kevon.

Your point is exactly my point, as long as he/she doesn't address himself as doctor in a situation outside his/her scope, then there is no issue. My issue is people using in a situation that they are. However few times this situation occurs has little relevance. As long as they don't cross this boundary, I have no qualm. This is what I have said the entire thread. Mainly I am referring to the current DNP issue.

What do you mean "read sarcasm well"? I already identified your statement as hyperbole, and called it ridiculous because it adds no value to your argument.

 

[jvelos3]

Your point is exactly my point, as long as he/she doesn't address himself as doctor in a situation outside his/her scope, then there is no issue. My issue is people using in a situation that they are. However few times this situation occurs has little relevance. As long as they don't cross this boundary, I have no qualm. This is what I have said the entire thread. Mainly I am referring to the current DNP issue.

Totally agree. What I and a number of others are getting at, however, is that it is unfair to lump non physicians in one category and MD/DO in another category when, depending on your specialty, your scope of practice will differ. An optometrist addressing themselves as a "doctor" in the ED is no more dangerous than a pathologist or dermatologist doing the same.

 

[scpod]

....I don't see the problem with implementing this system at nearly every major hospital. This serves more to the patients than anyone else, and we as clinicians should be the ones in self-regulation as said before when it comes to the legal matters. I'm certain an optometrist won't overstep their boundaries, regardless if they introduce themselves as doctor.

It doesn't serve the patients. It serves a group of anal pre-meds who are afraid that a patient may mistakenly think someone else is a doctor-- or mistake the doctor as something else. Who cares?

True patient care comes from being a part of a team-- one small cog in a wheel where everyone does does his or her job to their utmost ability. How does segregating parts of the medical team into colors do anything at all for patient care?

The OD is is very important part of patient care and performs a number of important services for patients. If I were going into primary care I would depend on them to care for my diabetic patients and give them a thorough yearly eye exam. They don't need an opthalmologist for that.

Everyone on the TEAM is important-- the nutritionist, PT, PA, NP, RN, OT...etc.-- and making them feel like a part of the team is the way to get better health care for your patient. Telling them, "You need to wear the prescribed orange colors so that the patient won't mistake you for someone else" is absolutely silly.

There is no situation in a hospital setting where different colors really makes a difference. They have protocols in place for emergencies that work quite well.

 

[123165]

It doesn't serve the patients. It serves a group of anal pre-meds who are afraid that a patient may mistakenly think someone else is a doctor-- or mistake the doctor as something else. Who cares?

True patient care comes from being a part of a team-- one small cog in a wheel where everyone does does his or her job to their utmost ability. How does segregating parts of the medical team into colors do anything at all for patient care?

The OD is is very important part of patient care and performs a number of important services for patients. If I were going into primary care I would depend on them to care for my diabetic patients and give them a thorough yearly eye exam. They don't need an opthalmologist for that.

Everyone on the TEAM is important-- the nutritionist, PT, PA, NP, RN, OT...etc.-- and making them feel like a part of the team is the way to get better health care for your patient. Telling them, "You need to wear the prescribed orange colors so that the patient won't mistake you for someone else" is absolutely silly.

There is no situation in a hospital setting where different colors really makes a difference. They have protocols in place for emergencies that work quite well.

Who is saying that treatment as a team is not important? Your OD example holds little weight here, as I (and most everyone else) am speaking about a multi-faceted healthcare facility, where individuals with many different degrees and specialties fill many different niches. Why not implement a system to designate who does what? I don't understand why a system of scrub colors would make anyone feel that they were not part of the team.

The benefit I see is allowing patients to quickly see what everyone's role in their health care is. If designation is not important, why even have a white coat?

As an aside,the Cleveland Clinic has required nurses to wear white scrubs for some time now.

 

[johncronejr]

I just have to say that in my 44 years on this big old dirtball we call eart, I have been in a lot of clinics, hospitals, and doctor's offices. Many times I was the patient and many times I was with someone who was the patient. Not one time can I recall ever hearing myself or others say "I wish there was a way to quickly identify the people that went to medical school".

So is this a new issue that has cropped up in real life or is this a hypothetical situation discussed among only those who are in pre-med/medical school?

While I really don't care if they make a rule for different color scrubs, from life experience it still only sounds like the pre-meds on this thread just want to make sure they stand out from the rest. My experiences tell me that this has less to do with patient confusion and more to do with recognition that "you" are a "real doctor".

If that's the case, and there is nothing wrong with pride in your accomplishment, how about getting med schools to start issuing nice little "badges" that you can wear on your lab coats much like a pilot getting their "wings". This way the med schools get to have their prestige and recognition, anyone who has earned a doctorate can use the title doctor, and everyone can wear whatever color they want.

 

[JaggerPlate]

An optometrist addressing themselves as a "doctor" in the ED is no more dangerous than a pathologist or dermatologist doing the same.

Ummmmmmmm what??? Even though a derm or path haven't used much EMS since medical school, they are still medical doctors, just like EM or FP or IM or whatever else happens to be in the ED. It is perfectly fine. What if the derm is called there for some crazy skin consult (the hospital I worked at had a derm department and saw them in the ED a few times)?? Of course he addressed himself as doctor. Same thing if the path guy was up there for some reason. Jesus Christ.