optometry isnt worth it

[meameame12]

been practicing for 6 years now. went to ico. 160k debt, 85k annual salary (gross) working for someone else, in nj. owned my own practice for years and its still not worth it. the return on the $$ is not worth it. fill-in pay is around 375/day, and since i dont feel like working 7 days a week, i have to hire a doc for 2 days. the markup on contact lenses is not much, as i cant compete with costco and 1-800. the vendors prices arent marked down all that much--esp odg and abb. insurance reimbursemetns are crap. dilations are only 25.00.

no money in optometry. esp. with the debt acquired at ico. 40/yr *4 years, not including undergrad. consolidated at 3.75 percent but still its a mortgage.

so...........


looking at m.d. school now. anyone know if i can transfer in credits from o.d. school? called jefferson, and they said forget it. i think anywhere is a start from scratch, so the elites can protect their field.

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[still_confused]

living in jersey is your problem hahaha

 

[meameame12]

living in jersey is your problem hahaha

how so? cost of homes, sure. but how else? share your wisdom...

 

[DrEyeBall]

I do know of people who went to med school and applied credits. I think one skipped an entire year.

 

[SearchSquad]

Soooo depressing!! And why are you up so early on a Sunday morning?

I'm going to ICO in less than a month...and of course I have considered the debt associated with Chicago. I started a thread with questions about paying off the loans and thought the response was positive. Everybody gets into this debt and turn out just fine. So how could you have changed your present situation? Borrowed less, not started your own practice right away, residency training? Or where you not so happy to do optometry school? Why didn't you go to med school to begin with?

okay, maybe you need a nice yummy breakfast to put you in a better mood.

oh and please feel free to give more ICO advice...thanks doc.

 

[luckyfool]

been practicing for 6 years now. went to ico. 160k debt, 85k annual salary (gross) working for someone else, in nj. owned my own practice for years and its still not worth it. the return on the $$ is not worth it. fill-in pay is around 375/day, and since i dont feel like working 7 days a week, i have to hire a doc for 2 days. the markup on contact lenses is not much, as i cant compete with costco and 1-800. the vendors prices arent marked down all that much--esp odg and abb. insurance reimbursemetns are crap. dilations are only 25.00.

no money in optometry. esp. with the debt acquired at ico. 40/yr *4 years, not including undergrad. consolidated at 3.75 percent but still its a mortgage.

so...........


looking at m.d. school now. anyone know if i can transfer in credits from o.d. school? called jefferson, and they said forget it. i think anywhere is a start from scratch, so the elites can protect their field.

40k/yr x 4 years 160k of loan...wow is it private or federal loan? 3.75% interested rate?? i'm paying my private loan right now at 8.5%...i think I'm being ripped off. my monthly payment is $465 for a 40k citi bank student loan. it sucks big time. does anyone know any good places to consolidate my private loan to have a lower interest rate? i'm dying over here.

 

[broadway]

been practicing for 6 years now. went to ico. 160k debt, 85k annual salary (gross) working for someone else, in nj. owned my own practice for years and its still not worth it. the return on the $$ is not worth it. fill-in pay is around 375/day, and since i dont feel like working 7 days a week, i have to hire a doc for 2 days. the markup on contact lenses is not much, as i cant compete with costco and 1-800. the vendors prices arent marked down all that much--esp odg and abb. insurance reimbursemetns are crap. dilations are only 25.00.

no money in optometry. esp. with the debt acquired at ico. 40/yr *4 years, not including undergrad. consolidated at 3.75 percent but still its a mortgage.

so...........


looking at m.d. school now. anyone know if i can transfer in credits from o.d. school? called jefferson, and they said forget it. i think anywhere is a start from scratch, so the elites can protect their field.

med school may not be worth it either (unless you love it) so do yor research.

 

[broadway]

been practicing for 6 years now. went to ico. 160k debt, 85k annual salary (gross) working for someone else, in nj. owned my own practice for years and its still not worth it. the return on the $$ is not worth it. fill-in pay is around 375/day, and since i dont feel like working 7 days a week, i have to hire a doc for 2 days. the markup on contact lenses is not much, as i cant compete with costco and 1-800. the vendors prices arent marked down all that much--esp odg and abb. insurance reimbursemetns are crap. dilations are only 25.00.

no money in optometry. esp. with the debt acquired at ico. 40/yr *4 years, not including undergrad. consolidated at 3.75 percent but still its a mortgage.

so...........


looking at m.d. school now. anyone know if i can transfer in credits from o.d. school? called jefferson, and they said forget it. i think anywhere is a start from scratch, so the elites can protect their field.

you cant transfer credits

 

[Ryan_eyeball]

been practicing for 6 years now. went to ico. 160k debt, 85k annual salary (gross) working for someone else, in nj. owned my own practice for years and its still not worth it. the return on the $$ is not worth it. fill-in pay is around 375/day, and since i dont feel like working 7 days a week, i have to hire a doc for 2 days. the markup on contact lenses is not much, as i cant compete with costco and 1-800. the vendors prices arent marked down all that much--esp odg and abb. insurance reimbursemetns are crap. dilations are only 25.00.

no money in optometry. esp. with the debt acquired at ico. 40/yr *4 years, not including undergrad. consolidated at 3.75 percent but still its a mortgage.

so...........


looking at m.d. school now. anyone know if i can transfer in credits from o.d. school? called jefferson, and they said forget it. i think anywhere is a start from scratch, so the elites can protect their field.

I don't think I could ever charge someone to dilate. IMO its unethical if a person can't afford an additional fee for something that should be done anyways in a "comprehensive exam." Taking the money aspect out of the procedure gives the patient one less reason to refuse it.

I always agree on over-saturation of the profession. Others around me wonder why i work so much, and its because I fear the profession will become even more watered down with OD's and salaries will drop. Our income is ok for now. 85k gross would be tough, but livable on after taxes.

 

[drbizzaro]

I think people can come out just fine. You may have managed your money quite poorly to get into that much trouble. You don't just have to be book-smart to be an O.D., you need to be money-smart.

i agree... you just need to work at it, if you want to succeed.... so many people think you can just walk out there and get money without trying... most of my peers are making well over 100K first year out, many are making 150K+

 

[Ryan_eyeball]

i agree... you just need to work at it, if you want to succeed.... so many people think you can just walk out there and get money without trying... most of my peers are making well over 100K first year out, many are making 150K+

Those salaries won't last forever at the future graduation rates in say year 2014 when possibly three new schools start contributing to the problem more.

 

[still_confused]

biggest problem in optometry is not oversupply its ODs constant whining . why not try to do something about it? or at the very least stop making us look bad to our professions. you think corporate is bad? how do you think MDs feel when they read "optometry is doomed" it only galvanize them more

jeez

 

[meameame12]

i agree... you just need to work at it, if you want to succeed.... so many people think you can just walk out there and get money without trying... most of my peers are making well over 100K first year out, many are making 150K+

150k? net? enlighten me. there is no way in the world that they can make that much--a seasoned doc even-- working for someone else. no way.

thus they must sublease -- and since i have the impression that they are newbies--they probably dont have the capital to start a new optical, nor purchase an existing one, they must sublease a costco or a walmart. i think thats the only way to accrue that income. lets see...walmart (not new and opening but an existing one (btw a new one is suicide--you WILL starve for 2 years) bring in around 10k per month, if its busy, and if its a highway one, and if its in a non-elite area. demographics matter, no matter what the pc establishment says.

but the problem is that most docs are a) on a waiting list for those high-end practices and b) there aren't many high end, and the walmarts keep building on top of one another.

ideally, you would want to be the only optometrist within a 100 mile radius. but that aint going to happen.

so, id like to know precisely where that person was making over 150k. the only way i can see it happening for a new grad is to acquire an existing, booming walmart. they slipped in.

good for them, now how about the rest of the new grads?

 

[meameame12]

biggest problem in optometry is not oversupply its ODs constant whining . why not try to do something about it? or at the very least stop making us look bad to our professions. you think corporate is bad? how do you think MDs feel when they read "optometry is doomed" it only galvanize them more

jeez

sure it is. sure it is. not only is there an over abundance, but you have a lot of traitor o.d.'s that need to eat, and thus, join corporate. this kills the income, builds up "their" practice, and leaves other o.d.s in private practices wanting.

look, the bottom line, as i said b4, and ill say again, if you want to make $$ in this profession, you will need to get an optical. cause that is where the $$ is at. it is not in cl sales. it is not in eye exams, not in treatment. it is in co-management, however. but those cases are rare.

i used to work at LC, and their optical made around 10k a day. the doctors side (aka my side) made around 1500 a day. over 60% were in cl sales. then of course you have rent, you have staff, you have payroll, you have liability, you have malpractice, you have rent. the key problem were the cl sales, as they were not marked up that much, and rent is based on gross.

so at the end of the day, im my humble opinion, its not worth it. also, did i mention that most LC's cost over 100k?

and i worked at walmart for 3 total years, different ones. ones that were "booming" and ones that were dead.

and at private opticals.


like many of you reading this, my loans were huge. and to the person who asked if they can consolidate private loans, i think the answer is no. but my point WAS and still IS--how to live as cheaply as possible to pay off as much ICO debt as possible, within 5 years or so, or at least cut down on the total so that it wont KILL me in the long run.

in short, go to where the $$ is.

dont think that we all at ICO did not speak with one another over the massive debt. people were talking about going to Alaska for a year or 2. or to parts of N. Mexico, where there supposedly was an acute shortage of o.d.'s. i mean, we had a lot of us migrate to other states so that we could make as much $$ as possible to repay the loan, and then move to where we really wanted to go.

only 2 people made it, so to speak, and both went to existing, family owned private practices where there were m.d.s on staff and they had a huge collection of frames.

to those who think im mismanaging my money, you are deluding yourself. its the DEBT that is killing us, with interest attached. for all intents and pursposes its a mortgage.

 

[meameame12]

40k/yr x 4 years 160k of loan...wow is it private or federal loan? 3.75% interested rate?? i'm paying my private loan right now at 8.5%...i think I'm being ripped off. my monthly payment is $465 for a 40k citi bank student loan. it sucks big time. does anyone know any good places to consolidate my private loan to have a lower interest rate? i'm dying over here.

my case is a combo of private and federal.
i borrowed around 40k. a little more, actually.

ecsi and idapp now.

my monthly is 1200 for 20 years.
interest grows at 600 or so a month for idapp.
if michale moore wants to make a movie over anything, how about taking advantage of student loans for profit.

 

[meameame12]

Soooo depressing!! And why are you up so early on a Sunday morning?

I'm going to ICO in less than a month...and of course I have considered the debt associated with Chicago. I started a thread with questions about paying off the loans and thought the response was positive. Everybody gets into this debt and turn out just fine. So how could you have changed your present situation? Borrowed less, not started your own practice right away, residency training? Or where you not so happy to do optometry school? Why didn't you go to med school to begin with?

okay, maybe you need a nice yummy breakfast to put you in a better mood.

oh and please feel free to give more ICO advice...thanks doc.

my advice to you: do not borrow the max. nor close to the max. you will truly regret it, and during your externships, you will have a sinking feeling set in as to how you will ever repay it. no need for loan counseling, as the school so chappily suggests. you want the secret? consolidate as early as possible for the lowest rate you can. once that is done, and once you have $$ repay as much as you can. never pay the minimum. never. and make sure that your extra monthly payment is applied directly to the principle.

im not knocking the school. nor the quality of the education ico affords. we crushed the rest of the nation with our boards score -- 91 percent (ron=68 percent). our clinic is phenomenal. tons of medical problems with the patient base at our clinic. im sure, as you must know since you interviewed there, south side of chicago are some mean streets. exercise caution.

study hard, its all notes. we had m/w quizzes first year. dont get tricked. a lot of non-trads struggle, many of them flunk out. dont pay attn to them, nor the rumors that they need to fail x amount. c = od. thats the formula, worse case scenario. optics was tough for me. esp. with dr. brown.

you will learn a truck load.

 

[Ryan_eyeball]

my case is a combo of private and federal.
i borrowed around 40k. a little more, actually.

ecsi and idapp now.

my monthly is 1200 for 20 years.
interest grows at 600 or so a month for idapp.
if michale moore wants to make a movie over anything, how about taking advantage of student loans for profit.

Do most students at ICO borrow 40k a year? I borrowed around 25k a year at UMSL and that was about the norm.

 

[Ryan_eyeball]

biggest problem in optometry is not oversupply its ODs constant whining . why not try to do something about it? or at the very least stop making us look bad to our professions. you think corporate is bad? how do you think MDs feel when they read "optometry is doomed" it only galvanize them more

jeez

It's not doomed, and never will be. There will always be OD's out there to provide eyecare. How do you suggest we stop OD schools from popping up more and more? Obviously the AOA can't do anything about it, because of the anti-trust laws. Many practitioners will say open a phone and try to book an appointment with an OD, high probablity that you will get in within one or two days even at private practices. There are more OD's graduating every year than ones retiring. I heard a 7000:1 population ratio to doctor in school, but i doubt that happens in many places.

Other note, Meamea is right that a large majority of profit is in those little glasses. I've had patients that will be -1.00 -0.25 x 180 OU, and been told they have astigmatism and can't wear cl's. The reason the previous doctor wanted to sell them glasses, and for that huge profit margin.

Glasses = Huge profit margin
CL sales = minimum profit margin
CL fits/eval = SET HIGH, that way when the patient has VSP or whatever vison plan you can take all the CL benefit, even when they run to walmart for their CL's.
E/M cases = I believe are pretty profitable. Dry eye cases with punctal plugs, glaucoma followups, Diabetics

 

[Hines302]

biggest problem in optometry is not oversupply its ODs constant whining . why not try to do something about it? or at the very least stop making us look bad to our professions. you think corporate is bad? how do you think MDs feel when they read "optometry is doomed" it only galvanize them more

jeez

You took the words right out of my mouth

 

[sunnysideOS]

been practicing for 6 years now. went to ico. 160k debt, 85k annual salary (gross) working for someone else, in nj. owned my own practice for years and its still not worth it. the return on the $$ is not worth it. fill-in pay is around 375/day, and since i dont feel like working 7 days a week, i have to hire a doc for 2 days. the markup on contact lenses is not much, as i cant compete with costco and 1-800. the vendors prices arent marked down all that much--esp odg and abb. insurance reimbursemetns are crap. dilations are only 25.00.

no money in optometry. esp. with the debt acquired at ico. 40/yr *4 years, not including undergrad. consolidated at 3.75 percent but still its a mortgage.

so...........


looking at m.d. school now. anyone know if i can transfer in credits from o.d. school? called jefferson, and they said forget it. i think anywhere is a start from scratch, so the elites can protect their field.

How many patients do you see a day? How many employees do you have and what is your overhead? Seems like you should invest money into your practice to grow it rather than invest in a completely different line of work that won't get any returns for another 4-6 yrs. my 2 cents.

 

[istudent]

meameame12, you should spend more time trying to improve your practice and less time crying and feeling sorry for your self.

 

[Opii]

Geeezz folks! Remind me folks, not to look for sympathy in these forums if my puppy gets run over and dies!

Having that amount of debt over your head is a horific feeling. Give the poster a break, she is experiencing what most of you will experience when you get out of school. Older ODs didn't experience these kind of expenses in their years of school so they won't give you a sympathetic ear either, nor a job.

 

[posner]

been practicing for 6 years now. went to ico. 160k debt, 85k annual salary (gross) working for someone else, in nj. owned my own practice for years and its still not worth it. the return on the $$ is not worth it. fill-in pay is around 375/day, and since i dont feel like working 7 days a week, i have to hire a doc for 2 days. the markup on contact lenses is not much, as i cant compete with costco and 1-800. the vendors prices arent marked down all that much--esp odg and abb. insurance reimbursemetns are crap. dilations are only 25.00.

no money in optometry. esp. with the debt acquired at ico. 40/yr *4 years, not including undergrad. consolidated at 3.75 percent but still its a mortgage.

so...........


looking at m.d. school now. anyone know if i can transfer in credits from o.d. school? called jefferson, and they said forget it. i think anywhere is a start from scratch, so the elites can protect their field.

This is exactly what I referred to in my original post a long while back(my rant...). The poster is the type of person who chooses to blame the profession for a lack of success. It will be the same for you in medicine; especially when you consider the plummeting of reimbursements and no retail components. There are very few primary health care occupations left that are guaranteed cash cows. In most cases, success must be earned. Even if you went back to school and became a surgeon of one type or another, your salary would definitely be higher in a managed care setting than an OD. However, like corporate OD settings now, in most cases there is little chance of upward mobility and profound salary jumps when someone else is running the show.

In most cases, you will need to work for yourself or in a group to really make some money. It is difficult in any health profession to build a successful practice from the ground up. MD does not immediately stand for "making dough". I have told the story before. My next door neighbor is an oculoplastic surgeon. He was working for a very large ophthalmology practice in my area. He was making pretty good money, but soon realized he was making the practice alot more money than he was being paid. He started thinking about going it alone, but new the perils of solo private practice. One day while in the middle of a patient consult, the head partner called him out of the room and fired him on the spot! He had gotten word that he was considering leaving for private practice. Guess what? He was terrified as to how he was going to feed his family and pay his mortgage. He was immediately forced into private practice. He struggled for about 2-3 years before he had built his business up to the point where he didnt have to worry about food on the table. If it were not for an enormous amount of equity in his home(that he had to cash out), he would not have been not been able to stay. He was begging every OD in the tri counties to send him every lump and bump on every patient to get bodies in his chair.

So go ahead and go to med school. I hear "they" are lined up around the block to pay new MD graduates $200K plus guaranteed first year out. Give me a break....

Posner

 

[drbizzaro]

This is exactly what I referred to in my original post a long while back(my rant...). The poster is the type of person who chooses to blame the profession for a lack of success. It will be the same for you in medicine; especially when you consider the plummeting of reimbursements and no retail components. There are very few primary health care occupations left that are guaranteed cash cows. In most cases, success must be earned. Even if you went back to school and became a surgeon of one type or another, your salary would definitely be higher in a managed care setting than an OD. However, like corporate OD settings now, in most cases there is little chance of upward mobility and profound salary jumps when someone else is running the show.


So go ahead and go to med school. I hear "they" are lined up around the block to pay new MD graduates $200K plus guaranteed first year out. Give me a break....

Posner

well said! i agree with you 100%!

 

[broadway]

my experience w/ md's has been a little different. I know an oculoplastics doc that after 1.5 years of practice is grossing over 1 million dollars. (she took a course and does cosmetic surgery) she no longer practices ophtho and she does not take medical insurance. most of my md friends started at about 200,000. (it depends on specialty) . my point is that there is a much higher potential to make $$$ as an md.

 

[still_confused]

plenty of ODs grossing over a million too,

in fact there are plenty of people making tons of money or are worth a lot working regular jobs. read "the millionaire next door" and see ordinary people making it in life.

you want a million dollars? sweat for it

 

[orangezero]

meameame12,

Have you looked in to law school? It will be rough waters ahead for most medical professions, unless its all private pay. You could also consider working as a sales rep. Most of them barely know what they are talking about and just nearly have the brochures memorized... you'd be able to run circles around them. And you'd have the perspective to understand what private ODs need and their problems.

How about working with a software company developing medical records?

Just some helpful comments, hopefully.

I wish I could share the hopeful outlook as most of you do, but I guess I'm not in school anymore and aren't drinking the koolaid everyday (just a joke...). The truth is there are over 1100 new ODs every year and just over 500 or so are retiring every year, AND many circles are almost willing to admit there is an oversupply now. Not all, but many will be dragged down with less salary increases

I'm not worried... it will only help my practice when I want to go on vacation and can hire a good fill-in OD for $150 a day because there is a state school pumping out 160+ ODs every year with $100-200,000 in debt.

 

[sunnysideOS]

I heard you could make a lot of money if you go to med school AND law school. you should definately do that!

 

[meameame12]

plenty of ODs grossing over a million too,

in fact there are plenty of people making tons of money or are worth a lot working regular jobs. read "the millionaire next door" and see ordinary people making it in life.

you want a million dollars? sweat for it

you're funny, in a foolish sort of way.

 

[meameame12]

meameame12,
The truth is there are over 1100 new ODs every year and just over 500 or so are retiring every year, AND many circles are almost willing to admit there is an oversupply now. Not all, but many will be dragged down with less salary increases

I'm not worried... it will only help my practice when I want to go on vacation and can hire a good fill-in OD for $150 a day because there is a state school pumping out 160+ ODs every year with $100-200,000 in debt.

ill ignore your crude attempt at humor. didnt find it funny at all.

what you are saying is not the truth. how about m.d.'s? how many schools are there spitting out m.d.'s, do's, etc., every year? how many foreign residents are admitted? yet you dont hear too many complaining. i hear grumblings now and then, of course.

but the bottom line is that their prices are not driven THRU the floor like ours are.

 

[posner]

my experience w/ md's has been a little different. I know an oculoplastics doc that after 1.5 years of practice is grossing over 1 million dollars. (she took a course and does cosmetic surgery) she no longer practices ophtho and she does not take medical insurance. most of my md friends started at about 200,000. (it depends on specialty) . my point is that there is a much higher potential to make $$$ as an md.

YOu are missing my point. If you are working for someone else your potential is limited, no matter what healthcare profession you choose. If you are not the puppet master, it doesnt matter what letters you have behind your name. I would agree with your statement that the potential for $$ is greater as an MD if you are a go getter, no doubt. Just for general info, I accessed the state's Web site here in CA and also the department of corrections webiste. Going rate for MDs is between $9500 and $12,200 per month. Good luck hiding that from Uncle Sam...I would take my situation several times over before I would take that gig(although the benefits and retirement are hard to argue with).

I have mentioned my best friend who is an MD near by. He started at $120K as an associate right out of school here in CA. It didnt take long for him to realize he needed his own gig to make some money. It has been my experience that most MDs I know start around $120K-$140K. It may be different in your area, but not here.

POsner

 

[still_confused]

you're funny, in a foolish sort of way.

and you are pathetic

 

[Ryan_eyeball]

YOu are missing my point. If you are working for someone else your potential is limited, no matter what healthcare profession you choose. If you are not the puppet master, it doesnt matter what letters you have behind your name. I would agree with your statement that the potential for $$ is greater as an MD if you are a go getter, no doubt. Just for general info, I accessed the state's Web site here in CA and also the department of corrections webiste. Going rate for MDs is between $9500 and $12,200 per month. Good luck hiding that from Uncle Sam...I would take my situation several times over before I would take that gig(although the benefits and retirement are hard to argue with).

I have mentioned my best friend who is an MD near by. He started at $120K as an associate right out of school here in CA. It didnt take long for him to realize he needed his own gig to make some money. It has been my experience that most MDs I know start around $120K-$140K. It may be different in your area, but not here.

POsner

I agree, the "puppet master" of any business in optometry is the highest potential for pay in optometry.

 

[SearchSquad]

my advice to you: do not borrow the max. nor close to the max. you will truly regret it, and during your externships, you will have a sinking feeling set in as to how you will ever repay it. no need for loan counseling, as the school so chappily suggests. you want the secret? consolidate as early as possible for the lowest rate you can. once that is done, and once you have $$ repay as much as you can. never pay the minimum. never. and make sure that your extra monthly payment is applied directly to the principle.

im not knocking the school. nor the quality of the education ico affords. we crushed the rest of the nation with our boards score -- 91 percent (ron=68 percent). our clinic is phenomenal. tons of medical problems with the patient base at our clinic. im sure, as you must know since you interviewed there, south side of chicago are some mean streets. exercise caution.

study hard, its all notes. we had m/w quizzes first year. dont get tricked. a lot of non-trads struggle, many of them flunk out. dont pay attn to them, nor the rumors that they need to fail x amount. c = od. thats the formula, worse case scenario. optics was tough for me. esp. with dr. brown.

you will learn a truck load.

Dear Dr. M.,

Thank you. This sounds like great advice. I did not take out loans in undergrad, so I'm not really proficient in how everything works (e.g. consolidation, private vs fed., etc). Why do you think it's better to kill yourself first 5 years out instead of paying off slowly and allowing yourself to live (I mean mortgages and babies)? And what percentage of your paycheck did you put towards loan repayment? The online load advisers say 10-15% (for 30 yrs).

 

[meameame12]

Dear Dr. M.,

Thank you. This sounds like great advice. I did not take out loans in undergrad, so I'm not really proficient in how everything works (e.g. consolidation, private vs fed., etc). Why do you think it's better to kill yourself first 5 years out instead of paying off slowly and allowing yourself to live (I mean mortgages and babies)? And what percentage of your paycheck did you put towards loan repayment? The online load advisers say 10-15% (for 30 yrs).

well...the dramatic cost of attending od school is so out of hand, that in certain parts of the country,you are essentially taking out a mortgage. and of course you will need a real mortgage for a home. and of course there is auto payment. now try getting a loan for a private practice.

i pay what i can, within reason, towards idapp. do what you need to do to make ends meet. its funny how some poeple are quoting the millionaire next door. advice like that actually puts a large smile on my face. its really humourous, actually, thinking about it. my point was the return on the dollar, but i guess when you have fools like that, it doesnt matter when od school will hit 200,000k, or 300k, cause even then, hey, you can always read texts like millionaire, etc., and still, if you can work within a budget, somehow, someway.

regardless, i still want to know which md school i can attend that will accept up to 2 years of credits, since most of our courses are general anyways.

 

[Ben Chudner]

regardless, i still want to know which md school i can attend that will accept up to 2 years of credits, since most of our courses are general anyways.

If you haven't posted this question on some of the MD forums yet, my advice would be to try there. I doubt anyone here will know the answer to this question. Good luck in your search for a more rewarding career.

 

[rpames]

regardless, i still want to know which md school i can attend that will accept up to 2 years of credits, since most of our courses are general anyways.

No school will take a single credit from OD school, much less 2 years worth. If you do find one, let us know.

 

[jefguth]

regardless, i still want to know which md school i can attend that will accept up to 2 years of credits, since most of our courses are general anyways.

The only med school I have ever heard of that accepts credits from optometry school's is the one in Antigua (Caribbean). But I'm not certain about it.

But seriously, if you're so adverse to debt after becoming an optometrist, then why are considering four years of more expensive education just to earn an additional $40,000 or so. After all, there's no guarantee that you'd successfully match into one of those cushy, high paid specialties - it could be family medicine after four years of med school, couple years of residency, and then you might only be making $120,000.???

 

[meameame12]

No school will take a single credit from OD school, much less 2 years worth. If you do find one, let us know.

ok. ill do some research elsewhere....and come back with the results...

 

[KingChris]

Hey,
I was just scrolling through, and I figured I'd just add a little something. If anyone here is having doubts about optometry, whether it be for financial reasons or the actual day-to-day job, I would strongly suggest you take a look into dentistry. I never thought I'd be interested, but after shadowing several well respected dentist and oral surgeons (dental specialist), I saw how enthusiastic everone was about their profession, especially because of the diversity of procedures they can do, the great hours (4 days a week, 8 hrs a day) and the the financial rewards (most dentists own their own practice and with the relatively low overhead cost, a dentist right out of school can start at 200k, and a successful dentist or oral surgeon can make up to a million, with the average surgeon making around 400k). Dentistry is, in my eyes, one of the best kept secrets in medicine, you have autonomy, you're a specialist (aside from general dentistry, there are 9 specialties within the field to choose from, all of which require anywhere from 2-6 years of residency), you make more money than most physicians, and you can do such a wide range of procedures whiles still maintainign a life outside of your profession (not to mention not having to deal with HMO,s, group practice salaries and the malpractice insurance that is often a burden to most physicians). It's truly a gold mind in my eyes and I just thought I'd share this info for anyone who is interested! Goodluck i

 

[itek2OD]

ok. ill do some research elsewhere....and come back with the results...

you may want to talk to an eye MD who has gone through OD school (OD,MD) - I know a few exist. Maybe you can find one or a resident who knows one in the eye MD resident forums. I wouldn't be surprised if they say its another 7 years of study before you specialize......

 

[2quik]

Hey,
I was just scrolling through, and I figured I'd just add a little something. If anyone here is having doubts about optometry, whether it be for financial reasons or the actual day-to-day job, I would strongly suggest you take a look into dentistry. I never thought I'd be interested, but after shadowing several well respected dentist and oral surgeons (dental specialist), I saw how enthusiastic everone was about their profession, especially because of the diversity of procedures they can do, the great hours (4 days a week, 8 hrs a day) and the the financial rewards (most dentists own their own practice and with the relatively low overhead cost, a dentist right out of school can start at 200k, and a successful dentist or oral surgeon can make up to a million, with the average surgeon making around 400k). Dentistry is, in my eyes, one of the best kept secrets in medicine, you have autonomy, you're a specialist (aside from general dentistry, there are 9 specialties within the field to choose from, all of which require anywhere from 2-6 years of residency), you make more money than most physicians, and you can do such a wide range of procedures whiles still maintainign a life outside of your profession (not to mention not having to deal with HMO,s, group practice salaries and the malpractice insurance that is often a burden to most physicians). It's truly a gold mind in my eyes and I just thought I'd share this info for anyone who is interested! Goodluck i

Well, I dont know about making 200k right out of school...but it is feasible to easily clear 6 figures! Im sorry to hear that commercial practices are putting the private practice ODs out of buisness. KingChris, took the words right out of my mouth. I think dentistry is the way to go if you are looking for financial security...although (of course) it should not be your only reason for pursuing it. But, from what i've noticed, a lot of dentists have 3 day weekends and live very comfortable lives. Just some food for thought.

 

[Elfego Baca]

If you can stand dealing with people's teeth, Dentistry is the way to go. I know some young dentists just a few years out of school driving Lexus SUV's and looking at $400,000 condos, and these aren't people who grew up rich. Most young, healthy people are wiling to go to a doc in the box OD because they intuitively know that if their OD screws up, nothing painful or horrible is going to happen to them. I'd go have an eye exam with an optometry student. I would never go to some Bozo at Wal-Mart for a root canal, and I wouldn't trust a dental student with my teeth. Most people with a decent income or job want to go to a skillful dentist with a real office, because they know that an incompetent or lazy dentist can cause major damage. The vast majority of optometric patients don't require even 1/20th of an OD's knowledge, so the results from a Bozo-OD won't differ much at all from the results from an AAO diplomate, so why not just drop in and get contacts or glasses while picking a few 5-gallon jars of pickles? A third-year with a month of training can refract and fit soft-contact lenses. Even Wal-Mart OD's can do it.

 

[alferec]

Most young, healthy people are wiling to go to a doc in the box OD because they intuitively know that if their OD screws up, nothing painful or horrible is going to happen to them.

I beg to differ - don't forget about retinal detachments and many other painful/horrible ocular diseases that optometrists can discover.

 

[broadway]

I was at a business meeting today with an insurance broker. He asked me what my practice grosses so I told him. Somehow we started discussing what other businesses gross. This really depressed me but I think its important for you guys to know.
pet shop does 3 million
hair salon does 2.5 million
pharmacy 2.3 million AND
A DOLLAR STORE 1.75 MILLION. SO YOU DO NOT HAVE TO GO TO OPTOMETRY SCHOOL AND GET IN DEBT 200K TO MAKE 100K. UNLESS OF COURSE YOU LOVE OPTOMETRY THEN MONEY SHOULD NOT BE AN ISSUE.
BTW I THINK THE AVERAGE OD PRACTICE DOES 500K.
ALSO LOOK AT THE CLASSIFIEDS AND SEE WHAT THE OD PRACTICES THAT ARE FOR SALE ARE GROSSING . ITS HORRIBLE.

 

[Ben Chudner]

I was at a business meeting today with an insurance broker. He asked me what my practice grosses so I told him. Somehow we started discussing what other businesses gross. This really depressed me but I think its important for you guys to know.
pet shop does 3 million
hair salon does 2.5 million
pharmacy 2.3 million AND
A DOLLAR STORE 1.75 MILLION. SO YOU DO NOT HAVE TO GO TO OPTOMETRY SCHOOL AND GET IN DEBT 200K TO MAKE 100K. UNLESS OF COURSE YOU LOVE OPTOMETRY THEN MONEY SHOULD NOT BE AN ISSUE.
BTW I THINK THE AVERAGE OD PRACTICE DOES 500K.
ALSO LOOK AT THE CLASSIFIEDS AND SEE WHAT THE OD PRACTICES THAT ARE FOR SALE ARE GROSSING . ITS HORRIBLE.

Gross numbers mean nothing. That dollar store could gross 1.75 mil but only net 5%. An average OD that grosses 500K should net around 33%, or about $165K. You should be able to gross 500K with a minimum of effort, working only 3 days per week. Not a bad salary for 24 hours a week.

 

[broadway]

Gross numbers mean nothing. That dollar store could gross 1.75 mil but only net 5%. An average OD that grosses 500K should net around 33%, or about $165K. You should be able to gross 500K with a minimum of effort, working only 3 days per week. Not a bad salary for 24 hours a week.

TRUE BUT IF YOU DO 3 MILLION AND YOU NET 10% YOU MAKE $300K. NOT A BAD SALARY EITHER. AND NOT EVERY PRACTICE DOING 500K WORK ONLY 24 HOURS. BUT THE POINT OF THE POST WAS THAT YOU DON'T HAVE TO SPEND 200K TO MAKE 100K.

 

[still_confused]

TRUE BUT IF YOU DO 3 MILLION AND YOU NET 10% YOU MAKE $300K. NOT A BAD SALARY EITHER. AND NOT EVERY PRACTICE DOING 500K WORK ONLY 24 HOURS. BUT THE POINT OF THE POST WAS THAT YOU DON'T HAVE TO SPEND 200K TO MAKE 100K.

HOW MUCH MONEY DOES IT TAKE TO START UP STORE? WHAT ARE THE RISKS? IF YOU FAIL YOU ARE OUT OF A JOB, AS AN OPTOMETRIST, IF YOU FAIL YOU CAN STILL WORK FOR SOMEONE ELSE FOR A DECENT WAGE. T MY FAMILY STARTED A STORE THAT HAS HIGH GROSS AND NET BUT IT WAS A RISK, IF WE HAD FAILED, WE WOULD BE 200k IN DEBT AND THE ONLY JOB MY PARENTS WOULD QUALIFY FOR IS MCDONALDS.

THE ONLY POINT OF YOUR POST IS TO COMPLAIN.

 

[posner]

I was at a business meeting today with an insurance broker. He asked me what my practice grosses so I told him. Somehow we started discussing what other businesses gross. This really depressed me but I think its important for you guys to know.
pet shop does 3 million
hair salon does 2.5 million
pharmacy 2.3 million AND
A DOLLAR STORE 1.75 MILLION. SO YOU DO NOT HAVE TO GO TO OPTOMETRY SCHOOL AND GET IN DEBT 200K TO MAKE 100K. UNLESS OF COURSE YOU LOVE OPTOMETRY THEN MONEY SHOULD NOT BE AN ISSUE.
BTW I THINK THE AVERAGE OD PRACTICE DOES 500K.
ALSO LOOK AT THE CLASSIFIEDS AND SEE WHAT THE OD PRACTICES THAT ARE FOR SALE ARE GROSSING . ITS HORRIBLE.

I wouldnt be too concerned about what other businesses/industries are grossing. I have said it many times before, it is not what you make but what you keep. Furthermore, It has been my experience that finding the best practice for purchase is not accomplished by scouring classified ads in the back of Review of Optometry.

Many of you make it sound like every person you bump into on the street is making $150K plus per year, even the local dog groomer. I would maintain this is simply not true. Optometry is a great profession. I love what I do. I call my own shots. My wife and I drive very nice late model cars that are paid for, I live in a very nice home, I put a considerable amount of money away each month in investments, and I dont worry about how I am going to pay my bills or how I can afford a vacation. Our two children won't have to worry about their college educations, and with a little luck, I will be semi-retired(two days a week) by 52(18 years from now). LIfe is good. Best of all, I get to help people every day.

If you are so depressed about your business, then sell it and move on so you can go complain in another forum somewhere else. Stop trying to drag everyone else down around here...it is getting old.

Posner

 

[JAZZEYE]

Posner,
thank you, thank you ,thank you
Its good for students to hear that there is at least a possibility that you can have a nice life in Optometry.
The post quoting gross income of hair salons and dollar stores was an obvious attempt to inflame the unhappy O.D. sentiments , but does not make any sense.... Business 101 "profit margin" was conveintly overlooked. A fine dining restaurant can gross a million and lose money while a hot dog stand can gross 40K and make 30k.

Comparing a business to an other business is like comparing apples to oranges....comparing a health professional to an other business is like comparing apples to Llamas.

At first reading that other post I was angry but that changed, in fact I have evolved quite a bit reading through this forum , I used to get scared reading some of the negative posts here.... and then that changed to anger but now I'm beginning to understand the big picture a little better. Optometry is not an easy field to find success....so ! It seems to take a lot of work, common sense and with some good luck you can make a decent living doing something you like and that you can be proud of yourself and you can help some people along the way , not so bad . I can see why some O.D.s become so frustrated, especially if they went into it with false expectations of easily achieving big bucks and status .... so I no longer get scared or angry reading negative posts, I realize people just have to vent .Thanks again, for your giving balance to this forum with some positive input. Please continue.

BTW... for a dollar store to produce 1.75 mil in annual revenue they would have to sell an avg. $4800 a day worth of merchandise 7 days a week , they seem to be doing well but thats really a stretch , don't you think ?