OR Shadowing

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I'm always amazed by the freedom surgeons give me when I've shadowed in the OR. For example, heart surgery. I'm standing at the head of the patient on a step stool so I can see better. This surgeon hardly knows me. I could pass out at any time, bump into something, etc. Really mess things up. One surgeon was removing a tumor from the mouth of a patient and had me stick my finger in her mouth and touch the tumor, and I was not scrubbed in, just wearing gloves!

Anybody have similar experiences? Whenever I watch an operation, I always find myself thinking, wow I could really mess this thing up pretty easily hahaa.

 

[sfgiantsfan]

This is fantastic (and a bit unprofessional on the surgeons part... but from our perspective, it's fantastic). I just started shadowing and making a concerted effort to reach out to physicians. Can you give me advice on finding more surgeons that will take me under their wing and let me observe?

 

[Doctor246853]

I'm always amazed by the freedom surgeons give me when I've shadowed in the OR. For example, heart surgery. I'm standing at the head of the patient on a step stool so I can see better. This surgeon hardly knows me. I could pass out at any time, bump into something, etc. Really mess things up. One surgeon was removing a tumor from the mouth of a patient and had me stick my finger in her mouth and touch the tumor, and I was not scrubbed in, just wearing gloves!

Anybody have similar experiences? Whenever I watch an operation, I always find myself thinking, wow I could really mess this thing up pretty easily hahaa.

Bull $hit. No way you did any of that. I work in the OR and the OR nurses alone would have murdered you for even looking like you was going to bump into anything blue let alone put your unscrubed hand into a mouth. No surgeon in the world would risk their licence just so a premed can see how cool this is. Man anyone who buys this is an idiot...Oh and I have realestate in Malibu for sale.

 

[nlax30]

Actually, for open heart cases, standing up at the head of the table where the anesthesiologist sits and looking over the drape can give a decent view and is really the only place you can be and still see anything if you're not scrubbed in.

On my cardiothoracic month there were always nursing/scrub tech students stopping by to observe and that's where they stood.

Now, him having you stick your finger in the mouth is suspect. Not that the mouth is sterile but you would be way too close to the sterile field.

 

[BushidoBrown]

Bull $hit. No way you did any of that. I work in the OR and the OR nurses alone would have murdered you for even looking like you was going to bump into anything blue let alone put your unscrubed hand into a mouth. No surgeon in the world would risk their licence just so a premed can see how cool this is. Man anyone who buys this is an idiot...Oh and I have realestate in Malibu for sale.

This.

 

[ClueBooM]

Bull $hit. No way you did any of that. I work in the OR and the OR nurses alone would have murdered you for even looking like you was going to bump into anything blue let alone put your unscrubed hand into a mouth. No surgeon in the world would risk their licence just so a premed can see how cool this is. Man anyone who buys this is an idiot...Oh and I have realestate in Malibu for sale.

I actually heard something similar to his story.. though it was not done in US.. Pre-dental students from my school went to Mexico and they got to do some extractions.. They told all their 'amazing' experience on their interview and was rejected on the spot. 😛 My pre-health advisor sent a mass email asking the students (who got to perform things where they usually were not allowed in the US), to not mention those kinds of experience in an interview, lol.

 

[CardiacIntensivist]

I'm always amazed by the freedom surgeons give me when I've shadowed in the OR. For example, heart surgery. I'm standing at the head of the patient on a step stool so I can see better. This surgeon hardly knows me. I could pass out at any time, bump into something, etc. Really mess things up. One surgeon was removing a tumor from the mouth of a patient and had me stick my finger in her mouth and touch the tumor, and I was not scrubbed in, just wearing gloves!

Anybody have similar experiences? Whenever I watch an operation, I always find myself thinking, wow I could really mess this thing up pretty easily hahaa.

The fact that this is so amazing to you just makes you look like an OR noob.

Everyone must have assumed you were a medical student or part of the anesthesia team. I'm surprised the scrub or circulating nurse weren't stricter with you. They must have seen you in the OR enough times to trust you before you were able to get as close as you claim (though I too do not believe that part about your hand in the mouth).

 

[mdapply]

well doctor246853 this definitely did happen. there was also a med student in the room and she had her touch it first, then gave me a set of gloves to touch it( so maybe somebody thought i was a med student) real estate in malibu huh, sounds great!

 

[mdapply]

also, its not like I stuck my finger in an open wound, i just put my finger in the patients mouth and touched the tumor on the palette with gloves on. before any cutting was done. is this so hard to believe?

 

[Pons Asinorum]

well doctor246853 this definitely did happen. there was also a med student in the room and she had her touch it first, then gave me a set of gloves to touch it( so maybe somebody thought i was a med student) real estate in malibu huh, sounds great!

No, it didn't. There is too much draping around the patient's head during an open thoracic surgery to allow you, or the gas resident playing solitaire on his iPhone, to see much of anything except a disembodied, intubated head and a bunch of monitoring equipment. And either the scrub or circulator would have literally tackled you before you got near the surgical field unscrubbed. Just didn't happen, my friend. Let it go.

 

[mdapply]

No, it didn't. There is too much draping around the patient's head during an open thoracic surgery to allow you, or the gas resident playing solitaire on his iPhone, to see much of anything except a disembodied, intubated head and a bunch of monitoring equipment. And either the scrub or circulator would have literally tackled you before you got near the surgical field unscrubbed. Just didn't happen, my friend. Let it go.

I wont let it go cuase it did happen. maybe im confused about the definition of scrubbed in. The operation hadn't started, but the patient was asleep, and I put my gloved finger in her mouth ( i was wearing scrubs, but i didnt wash my arms up to my elbows, nor was i wearing a gown). It was basically like put a finger in a patients mouth in the clinic to feel a tumor, only this patient was asleep in the OR. I repeat, this DID happen. anybody want to believe me?

 

[n3xa]

Smell like sum troll here.

 

[mdapply]

also, when i touched the patients mouth, this was not open heart surgery, it was a palette tumor removal surgery. I have watched heart surgery ( vavle replacement, CABG) and I stand at the head of the patient next to the anaesthesiologist. I am fairly tall, about 6 foot 1, so I can see over the drape, and I think this gives a great view. Even better if there is a small stool i can stand on (a few more inches off the ground)

Why all the hating??

 

[rhcarolina]

I am fairly tall, about 6 foot 1

BS!

Sorry, I just wanted to join in the hating for fun.

 

[SouthernSurgeon]

I wont let it go cuase it did happen. maybe im confused about the definition of scrubbed in. The operation hadn't started, but the patient was asleep, and I put my gloved finger in her mouth ( i was wearing scrubs, but i didnt wash my arms up to my elbows, nor was i wearing a gown). It was basically like put a finger in a patients mouth in the clinic to feel a tumor, only this patient was asleep in the OR. I repeat, this DID happen. anybody want to believe me?

From what the OP is saying...this certainly sounds plausible; the confusion is that it sounds like this occurred prior to the actual start of the case - i.e. nothing was prepped, there was no sterile field to violate. Basically the attending let the OP (and the med student apparently) do an exam under anesthesia prior to the operation.

 

[4ksibe]

I'm always amazed by the freedom surgeons give me when I've shadowed in the OR. For example, heart surgery. I'm standing at the head of the patient on a step stool so I can see better. This surgeon hardly knows me. I could pass out at any time, bump into something, etc. Really mess things up. One surgeon was removing a tumor from the mouth of a patient and had me stick my finger in her mouth and touch the tumor, and I was not scrubbed in, just wearing gloves!

Anybody have similar experiences? Whenever I watch an operation, I always find myself thinking, wow I could really mess this thing up pretty easily hahaa.

I wonder what OR this is but would certainly not want to be a patient there

 

[bucks2010]

Inb4coolstorybro

Anyways I'm guessing they hadn't prepped & draped the site yet, so there was no sterile field to be violated.

 

[Pons Asinorum]

From what the OP is saying...this certainly sounds plausible; the confusion is that it sounds like this occurred prior to the actual start of the case - i.e. nothing was prepped, there was no sterile field to violate. Basically the attending let the OP (and the med student apparently) do an exam under anesthesia prior to the operation.

I'll buy that story. But in that case, the surgeon most likely wasn't even in the room; possibly an intern or resident prepping and most likely going to first assist. The OP's anecdotes still reek of hyperbole. Now he's tall, so there's no stool, and he's behind the drape with gas, not "standing at the head of the patient." Whatever. OP be trollin regardless.

 

[n3xa]

I hate because I am 4'11" and even when I am all scrubbed up and in the sterile field the nice tech lady had to bring me a stool to see. 🙁

 

[Tappinfool66]

Bull $hit. No way you did any of that. I work in the OR and the OR nurses alone would have murdered you for even looking like you was going to bump into anything blue let alone put your unscrubed hand into a mouth. No surgeon in the world would risk their licence just so a premed can see how cool this is. Man anyone who buys this is an idiot...Oh and I have realestate in Malibu for sale.

Wrong. And if you think this is bull, I'd like to see how you react if you heard some other the things I know pre-meds have done while shadowing.

 

[nlax30]

I'll buy that story. But in that case, the surgeon most likely wasn't even in the room; possibly an intern or resident prepping and most likely going to first assist. The OP's anecdotes still reek of hyperbole. Now he's tall, so there's no stool, and he's behind the drape with gas, not "standing at the head of the patient." Whatever. OP be trollin regardless.

Not sure what your trying to say but we had students (nurse, scrub tech, etc...) come through quite often during an open heart case and stood on a stool next to the gas cart and the head of the table and look over the drape to watch for a few minutes.

So that it is certainly possible and probably what happened here.

And the mouth tumor thing probably just happened after patient was put to sleep but before they were prepped and draped.

 

[mglavin]

There is a lot of bacteria in the mouth no such thing as a sterile field there, thats what antibiotics are for. Same goes for any other case dealing with respiratory epithelium the best you have is a clean field not a truly sterile field.

EUA happen all the time so good for you don't let the jealous haters here on sdn get you down.

 

[Myuu]

Actually, for open heart cases, standing up at the head of the table where the anesthesiologist sits and looking over the drape can give a decent view and is really the only place you can be and still see anything if you're not scrubbed in.

On my cardiothoracic month there were always nursing/scrub tech students stopping by to observe and that's where they stood.

Now, him having you stick your finger in the mouth is suspect. Not that the mouth is sterile but you would be way too close to the sterile field.

A similar set up works well for getting a good view of AAA removal if you're under 5'5".

I'd agree that that mouth thing is a weeeeee bit odd.

 

[gatorade848]

well the surgeon i shadowed allowed me to dissect the lung tumor AFTER he took it out. allowing premed to physically touch the patient is a bit unprofessional

 

[northpenn]

well the surgeon i shadowed allowed me to dissect the lung tumor AFTER he took it out. allowing premed to physically touch the patient is a bit unprofessional

only a bit? VERY unprofessional

 

[Dr Gerrard]

i dont get why everyone is being so unbelieving

i was able to touch the brain and cut a suture while shadowing once (in the US)

it all depends on who the surgeon is, how his relationship with the nurses/anesthesiologist is, etc.

 

[mglavin]

allowing premed to physically touch the patient is a bit unprofessional

... I don't understand this line of thinking

At what point in your education will it not become unprofessional? Where is the line? Is it during shadowing? Do you have to be an EMT? CPR certified? HIPPA trained? Accepted to medical school? In medical school? In 3rd year of medical school? As a resident? Or should you be fully board certified?

Assuming you are in an academic setting or any other setting where the patient is informed that there may be students or trainees observing/participating in their care there should be no problem in your mind. Don't be squeamish, you have to jump into the patients mouth eventually it might as well be today.

I can empathize though as I do remember medicine appearing much more formal and ridged at one time then it really is. It's definitely more of an art then a science.

Medical training is one long series of awkward moments of doing things you have never done before for the first time. It always feels like you probably shouldn't be doing it or there should be more supervision but that just how medical education is.

You will never feel fully prepared or comfortable unless you have lots of experience doing things when you did not feel fully prepared.

 

[Xerxes1729]

You all need to chill out. This guy's story is totally believable. I've seen plenty of premeds hang out with anesthesia to get a better view. And what's the problem with feeling the tumor when the patient's under? It's not like it was a pelvic.

 

[mdapply]

finally some love! and yes this was in an academic medical center, so I'm sure the patient expected there to be students around